how many hours realistically to get a heavy jet rating?

[cfimei]

This is a question for all those jet guys. Is it realistic to expect - for somebody with average skills but NO previous jet or heavy aircraft experience - to obtain, say a 737 or Airbus type rating in 24 hours? A lot of type rating schools offer "24 hour" programs which actually turn out to be 12 hours left seat handling and 12 hours assisting from the right seat. I'm finding it hard to believe somebody can jump from a Seneca or even a Chieftain into a heavy jet in just 12 hours? Can I ask those guys who've gone through type rating training to give me and others interested in this question the benefit of their experiences and advice? Thanks!

[BitMoreRightRudder]

Sounds a bit far fetched to me cfimei. Where did you see this?

My 737 TR provider ran sim sessions in 4 hour blocks, with two hours PF and the other two PM/PNF. If an organisation is offering '24 hour' ratings then something is wrong. Bearing in mind you need 4 hours for the LST at the end of the course, that would leave you with 5 sessions or 20 hours to get to the required standard. As for it being realistic for someone with no prior jet experience, put it this way - my sim partner on the 737 TR had a jet command on another type and had in excess of 11,000 hours. He commented he felt he needed all the hours that were available on the course to get to LST standard. My course allowed for 40 hours prior to the LST, with additional hours programmed in if required. I don't know the ins and outs of the course you mention, but from the info you have provided it sounds at best an optomistic view of the hours required to get a TR on any jet!

I should add that i went to a JAA approved TRTO provider, and it was UK based.

[cfimei]

Thanks for the reply BitMore. I've come across a whole bunch of schools, mostly US based, advertising for these 24 hours TR courses although they don't at first tell you the number of hours until you dig a bit deeper. They all seem to split 12 hrs left and 12 hrs right seat. I've been a CFI for a number of years and have rarely come across a student able to upgrade to a light piston twin in less than 12 hours, let alone take on a 144,000 LB monster in the same time. Your experience seems to support the notion that a 12/24 hour TR course sounds questionable.

I wonder if anybody here on Pprune has done one of these courses?

[AerocatS2A]

Not a jet, but maybe useful for comparison (and possibly more difficult than some jets due to the higher assymetric effect of having an unfeathered prop and less automatics.)

Our company Dash 8 sim course is seven 4 hour sessions totalling 28 hours, with the last 4 hours being the instrument rating/proficiency check, and the 4 hours before that being a practice for the test. The course is normally run with two training FOs. They split the hours halfway between left and right seats and PF/PNF. So you end up doing 14 hours of hands-on flying. There are also 3 take-offs and landings conducted in the aeroplane after the simulator program.

Although achievable, we do have a moderately high failure rate. I was very marginally ready for the practice test (i.e., I may have just passed if it was for real), and I was uncomfortably competent for the actual test. I did ok, but it was difficult and stressful.

It's also worth considering that it is not really in the best interests of a training organisation to fail too many people. Perhaps these guys are not bothering with a practice test (4 hours), and have lowish standards. Or perhaps the majority of students actually need more than 24 hours and they get charged accordingly.

Most flight schools that do intial single engine piston training will tell you that you can have a PPL in 50 hours (or 40 or whatever the regs say in your country.) How many students achieve that though? Some, for sure, but there are plenty who need a bit more time.