HeliExpress & Avion Pacific ...Anyone?

[VFRIFR]

Hi.

Like to hear something about HE in Macau and AP in China. Can you guys tell me how's it like working for these companies, ie., the pay- do they pay enough for a decent life with family in these locations( any leftovers for some savings?, income tax?), flying schedules, benefits, type rating training?,life in Macau/China, etc.

Looked in the AP website and I got the impression they only take in training captains, it that true?

[JollyGreen]

Good Question - Anyone working there with info?
I hear HE needs pilots. I gather they pay around USD100K, including housing allowance, and net of tax, but that may be out of date. Any info appreciated.

[Super 61]

Don't know Macau, but I know Avion. They generally only hire TRI's but not always. I know they are looking for a C+ TRI right now. Also they are crewing a 92 but I think thats covered. They like big hours, and plenty of offshore IFR time, quite a few p***ed off CHC guys have gone there over the years. Mainly Canadians there right now, although Brits and Aussies go from time to time. Pay negotiable but approx $9000-10,000 US with housing and per diem on top. The Chief pilot/ops director is ex RN and Helijet, great bloke. PM me if you have the hours and I can send you his way. Cheers

Come to think of it, last time I was at FSI there were some guys from Macau, they seemed to be positive about the job there, I don't think its 100K though, could be mistaken.

[VFRIFR]

Sup 61,

How big the hours for non TRI's at Avion and do they provide type rating training? And are the base locations nice or liveable?

[Super 61]

3000 +, mainly twin Ifr offshore. No type ratings given, they need TRI's to train national pilots, there's no chance of an endorsement for a non national. Accomodations are supposed to be above average.

[VFRIFR]

Thanks S61.

Looks like for most of us it's a dead end with Avion. So how about somebody from Macau shedding some lite on HE. Come on we know you're out there, or is it a heavily guarded secret:oh: :confused: After all we've been sharing all our secrets about Africa:\ :ouch: :eek: :{

[Chi Sin Gei Si]

So how about somebody from Macau shedding some lite on HE. Come on we know you're out there, or is it a heavily guarded secret:oh: :confused: After all we've been sharing all our secrets about Africa:\ :ouch: :eek: :{

No secrets - just a small company with few pilots, so I suppose any posts could easily identify the poster unlike many of the larger companies. A loose comment here or there could cause trouble in the future.

However, with balls on the line, here's the best I can do for an objective overview.

Operations:

Currently 5 S76C+. There is talk of a fleet upgrade in the near future, but no decisions as of yet!

Pilots and engineers are from all over the world, bringing a range of experiences. Senior captains include Ex- RN, HeliJet, Bristows, GFS, CHC, Scotia?, (in fact many of the major players in twin helicopter industry).

Operations, are all cross-border, Macau <> Hong Kong, and Macau <> Shenzen. There are plans to expand the service to other destinations in China. Although there is still the odd local charter / tour / photo flight in S76s, the company closed down its Hong Kong B3 charter / tour service last year.

Most flying is VFR or SVFR, with options for IFR to HK in poor weather, and requirement for IFR to Shenzen at night and in day-poor weather. Most pilots fly between 700-900 hrs per year (900 is max allowed).

Conditions of Service:

On the whole the conditions are O.K. for pilots. Of course, like any company there are aspects which need to ironed out with HR and Admin departments. Some issues are in gross need for attention. There can also be cultural differences which sometimes cause friction between the largely expat pilot base and the more local management / HR / Admin side of things, but this is no different to any other overseas operation. Despite a major pay review last year, pay still needs to be continually reviewed to keep up with global climate in this sector, and local costs of living which are steadily rising. No surprise that this is a continual issue for the pilots.

Roster pattern is "4 days on-2 days off-4-2-4-4" with 28 days annual leave. Not bad, considering you get home every night at not too stupid a time. Shifts are around 6-8 hours, earliest being at 8 in the morning, the latest ending at 12 midnight (due noise regulations).

There are medical and dental benefits for all staff (and families), and Child Schooling benefits for Captains (Copilots don't have kids apparently!). Overseas contracts come with 1 return flight per annum home. Currently there is no 'loss-of-license' insurance assistance. Tax is almost non-existent! And cost of living is generally low.

Pay for Senior Captains will work out at just over $100,000USD, once the housing allowance is taken into account. Senior copilot pay works out to between $65000-$75000 (including housing) and new copilots are on about a third to half that depending on experience and time with company. Non-type rated pilots are sent to Flight Safety for the conversion, and usually bonded for this.

Although HeliExpress is a commercial operation (along with the usual commercial pressures), safety is taken seriously by the company, and any commercial pressures are kept in check (relative to other operations I've seen or heard about), with pilot decisions (go / no-go, mx etc..etc..) generally supported by flight ops and maintenance departments without question.

Due to having AOCs in both Hong Kong and Macau, licensing and medical issues are more frequent and slightly more complicated than normal.

Living:

Macau is a place of rapid growth, and the future is bright and busy. Lots of new development happening there and in the Pearl River delta in general. International schools are good quality. Pollution is probably the single most detracting factor of that region, with haze reducing vis to less than 3k on some days. Depending on your interests as well, Macau can be a little claustrophobic due to its size.

Recruitment:

At the moment there are about 30 pilots. There has been some movement recently and the current number is just below the ideal for the roster. So yes, HE are looking at the moment. Best chance at the moment is to have multi-experience for senior co pilot position, or S76-command experience for direct entry into Captain position.

Due to the hassle of getting a lower time pilot on the line (because of HK and Macau AOCs) the company is steering away from those hires for the time-being, but still worth a go if interested. Something to for lower time guys to think about is there is currently no way for copilots without previous PIC to gain PIC experience in order to become upgradeable. (Hence the recent movements).

Hope this is of interest!

Gei Si

[VFRIFR]

CSGS,

A Big Thank You for putting your balls on the line. That was great. By the way is "Chi Sin Gei Si" Hokien or Cantonese?

[Ned-Air2Air]

CSGS - Have things changed much now that Andrew Tse is working more with the fixed wing instead of the helicopters. I know that he has always been a helo enthusiast as well as the CEO but wondered if that changed with the start up of Hong Kong Express.

Also is Gus still working there.

Cheers

Ned

[Chi Sin Gei Si]

VFRIFR,

FYI, "Chi Sin Gei Si" is a feeble attempt at some Cantonese. It's loosely translated as 'Crazy Pilot', an apt moniker some would say!

P.S. No problem about the balls!

NED-Air2Air,

Although I think your questions are not unreasonable, I will maintain the professional and objective nature of the thread so far, by refraining from discussing individuals or specific company issues. Someone else can do that elsewhere!

Nevertheless, I can say that changes we've seen are the usual kind of changes you'd see in any company when there is movement in top-level management; the inevitable injection of fresh ideas and some restructuring of the 'tree-of-knowledge...er..power' are two examples.

Generally, the feeling is fairly positive. The one thing that will never change though is the fact that we live and work in a culture where change takes time! Huh?

On the same note (of not discussing individuals), I will neither 'confirm nor deny' that I in fact flew with a Gus just the other day and that he is a really great pilot to fly with! ;)

Right, that's all from me. Got other things to do!


Gei Si

P.S. What the hell is this meant to be? > :zzz:

[dcgene]

Sounds like HE is a pretty good gig , home every night good salary , they need to sort out the progression for copilots though .
It certainly beats touring if you have a family , living in Macau cant be too bad ??

[gulliBell]

...they need to sort out the progression for copilots though

This is the insurmountable problem. In many parts it is the law that you need an ATPL to fly multi-crew 12 pax IFR as PIC, and to get an ATPL you need x number of hours as PIC. So flying S76C+ as co-pilot from basic CHL experience stage (as many of the Macau co-pilots do) they just can't get PIC time to get the ATPL to be progressed to PIC! This is not a Macau specific "problem", it's just the way things are most the world over.

If I had a fleet of USD7,000,000+ helicopters carrying fare paying passengers I would be VERY uneasy having an aircraft Commander with only 100 hours PIC experience, irrespective of how many thousand co-pilot hours they had on type.

[dcgene]

Its the old quandry , need experience to get a job but need a job to get experience . There is no easy solution .

[gulliBell]

Its the old quandry , need experience to get a job but need a job to get experience . There is no easy solution .

Except in this case they do have a job, and a relatively very good paying job at that, starting without any or very little experience, getting lots of hours as S76 co-pilot. Probably better paid as a co-pilot in Macau than as a multi-engine Captain almost anywhere else. To their credit HeliExpress are giving a flying start to some that ordinarily wouldn't get a go anywhere else in the industry, at least without first having some uselful experience. It's just that the flying start doesn't automatically lead to anything else for the reason described above.

[VFRIFR]

My advise for those over-ripe co-joes is to join CHC Global. With CHC G you don't have to take a number for your seniority as they don't have a union( yet). Furthermore it is suppose to be an "ISO 9000 company" and it is suppose to have a "career progression program". In fact, previously during the days of CHI they only operate with Captains both crews and co-joes exist only with national companies. Reason for that is that it offers more flexibilities with multi bases & rostering. I would say a co-joe could be upgraded within a year in CHC G if he meets all the requirements. But for those who are interested, be prepared to be sent to....... The Continent of Possibilities, the Land of Opportunist.... AFRICA!!!:{

[dcgene]

I see the helo's are Macau and HK registered , do the guys get validations or do you have to do th HK licence . I have an ALTP with command on the 76 so going to send off a CV .

[DECU MAJOR]

Hi dcgene.

Yes we have both HK and Macau reg. a/c so our pilots have both Macau and HK licence.

[VFRIFR]

CSGS or anybody else,

How much does it cost to sent kids to international schools: pre-school,primary,secondary? How much's the average rental for an apartment?

[Bitmonx]

I've been thinking about trying to get in with HeliExpress in Macau. Does anybody know how much salary they pay for first officers? What are the chances to get in for a 3000 hr. guy with 1000 multi?

Cheers,

Bitmonx

[Chi Sin Gei Si]

This came up a few months ago. Try this thread.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=236812

Not alot has changed. While some improvements in Conditions of Service, still ground to be covered in a number of areas (but ain't that always the case?)

Still recruiting, so I'm sure your resume will be looked at. Get it in quick though, the postman's back is breaking with all the resumes in his sack.

If accepted expect a few months before you can work, due to Macau immigration laws. So don't quit your current job just yet. Also if accepted, make sure you've saved up for a 'probation period' (half pay) if you're coming in as FO. Some sort of 'baptism of fire' ritual to show you're truely keen apparantly! Quitting job and relocating isn't enough, I'm told. Anyway, pretty impossible to break even (just after your big move and settling in) during this time. Worse if you have family and kids! ....;) hmm, was that objective or subjective?:=

Had better stop now! Good luck!

CSGS

No PMs please.

[Bitmonx]

Thanks Chi Sin. Your info very helpfull.

Bitmonx

[ORANGE BULLET]

It's been about a year since this info was posted. Any changes?

[Ned-Air2Air]

[Hong Kong, June 21st, 2007] At a ceremony held today to celebrate its 10th anniversary of operation in Hong Kong, Heli Express Limited (‘Heli Express’) unveiled its plans for the expansion of Hong Kong’s heliport and an upgrade of associated lounge facilities as well as detailing the company’s forthcoming programme of helicopter fleet replacement. The project launch and announcement follows the decision made earlier this year, by the Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, to award the company the tender to develop the existing heliport, situated on the roof-top of the Hong Kong – Macau Ferry Terminal, as well as a new 18-year lease contract to operate the facility.

The announced expansion plan revealed how the heliport, when completed in two year’s time, will provide much enhanced passenger facilities and a dual-pad operation with connecting taxiways. The operator announced that running parallel to the scheduled construction of the second helipad will be the complete refurbishment of a significantly expanded departure lounge for helicopter passengers.

Speaking at the event, Dr. Stanley Ho, Heli Express Chairman said that, “The expansion of the heliport and its passenger facilities is both an important infrastructural development for Hong Kong and a significant investment for Heli Express, totaling more than HK0 million. It reflects the strength of our confidence in and commitment to the growth of the heli-shuttle business”.

Possession of the property will be granted to Heli Express from 1 July 2007 with the first of two phases of construction set to commence in the last quarter of this year,. The first phase will see the construction of a new, second helipad and passenger departure lounge which are slated for opening in late 2008. The subsequent phase will encompass the refurbishment of the existing helipad, with completion of the entire building project and operational readiness of the entire facility expected by mid-2009.

Heli Express Chief Executive Officer, Ms. Cheyenne Chan commented, “The new two-pad heliport facility with its increased operating capacity will enable helicopter operators the potential to substantially increase the frequency of services to meet future market demand for cross-boundary services for many years to come”.

The occasion also saw Dr Ho announce another major corporate decision by Heli Express; to invest in the purchase of six new Agusta Westland (AW) 139 helicopters to replace their current fleet of Sikorsky S76C+ aircraft. The AW 139 is a state-of-the-art helicopter with technologically advanced avionics, enhanced safety, performance and passenger comfort. “The selection of this helicopter type was made because it best meets the company’s future operational and commercial requirements.” Dr. Ho remarked. ”I look forward to the new aircraft being brought into commercial service to coincide with the operation of the upgraded heliport facility,” he concluded.
Heli Express will take delivery of the first of its six AW 139 helicopters currently on order in November 2008, as part of its fleet replacement programme.

[DECUFAULT]

And still people leaving.....:eek:

[gulliBell]

"the expansion of the heliport...totaling more than HK0million..."

Sounds like a bargain basement price for an upgrade of that nature.

I saw the plans to upgrade to a 2nd helipad on Shun Tak about 10 years ago and the price then was well over $100 million HKD.

[VFRIFR]

Are people leaving? So what's the process to get a HK & Macau ATPL.

[spinwing]

Mmmm......

HK ATPL used to = UK ATPL ?????

Dunno what the deal is now .....


:eek:

[gulliBell]

I think people have been leaving recently, but not by choice.

[asianrotorhunter]

gulliBell - I think people have been leaving recently, but not by choice.

You hit the nail on the head. The management there are from the Galapagos Islands - completely different from everyone else! And if you don't have the company approved personality then you'll have a rough road. If you just do your flights then they'll say you don't contribute, and if you speak up you'll be labelled as a trouble maker. It's a thin line to walk.:confused:

As for the Licenses, not worth the enormous trouble.:ugh:

ARH

[gulliBell]

ARH, it's always been that way there, even through the various evolutions of management over the years.

[Ned-Air2Air]

Anyone got any idea why Andrew Tse left and Cheyenne Chan took over.

I thought Andrew was well liked ??

[gulliBell]

That change happened years ago. Check PM.

[fluffy5]

Hi was wondering if a friend of mine I did an Faa Atpl for is still there, would be a couple of years ago. Was on a promise that if he got his ATPL they would give him a job. Wondering how he is getting on, as we have mutual friends. Mike Pavlick is his name.

tell him to PM

fluffy