Removing Doors from an R44 or R22

[puntosaurus]

Can anyone point me to the rules that cover who is allowed to do this for AOC and training flights in the UK in a UK registered helicopter ? Specifically I need to know if there's anything to prevent a CPL/FI doing this.

Thanks in advance.

[TiPwEiGhT]

Our 145 base signs an approval for line pilots to remove doors and dual controls on AOC flights. As for training I am pretty sure that you do not require approval, certainly we don't sign them off on the tech log on training flights.

A licensed engineer on R22/44 will be able to sign you off.

TiP:ok:

[rudestuff]

You're kidding me!?

Do people actually fly R22's with the doors on over there?
I thought the doors were just to keep the rain out when you're not flying!

[puntosaurus]

Thanks TW I'll get a signoff from our maintenance org. For those regulation hounds out there, can anyone point me to where this is actually covered in the regs ?

[TiPwEiGhT]

It will most likely be mentioned in your Ops Manual or JAR-OPS Subpart M.

TiP:}

[JimL]

Unless it has changed recently - because of the legal competence of EASA to provide such regulations - for the JAA States it is covered here:

JAA Administrative & Guidance Material Section Two: Maintenance Part Three: Temporary Guidance

LEAFLET NO. 38: AUTHORISATION OF FLIGHT CREW PERSONNEL TO ISSUE CERTIFICATES OF RELEASE TO SERVICE FOR MAINTENANCE.

1. Note.

Please be advised that the material contained in this leaflet is either an acceptable means of compliance (AMC) or interpretative and explanatory material (IEM) as stated in JAR-145 Section 2 para 2.4. However because the material has NOT been subjected to the FULL FORMAL NPA process it is possible that the content may change in due course when transferred to JAR-145 after NPA. This means that any organisation using this material to satisfy JAR-145 compliance may have to adjust their processes and procedures as a result of the NPA.

Here is an example - from the TGL - of tasks that can be carried out once authorised:

Holders of a valid JAR FCL ATPL or CPL on the aircraft type may only exercise this limited certification authorisation privilege when performing the duties of a flightcrew member, whilst operating away from a supported location and subject to the need for such authorisation being agreed by the JAA-NAA.

Typical tasks that may be certified and/or carried out are minor maintenance or simple checks included in the following list;

a Replacement of internal lights, filaments and flash tubes.

b Closing of cowlings and refitment of quick access inspection panels.

c Role changes e.g. stretcher fit, dual controls, FLIR, doors, photographic equipment etc.

d Repetitive ADs as specified in JAR 145.30(g)4

e Any check/replacement involving simple techniques consistent with this TGL and as accepted by the JAA-NAA

Jim

[bladewashout]

So is a PPL-holding owner of an R22 allowed to remove the doors when he is using his own aircraft?

Or, more specifically, since many light aircraft are owned by a ltd. company, is the owner/director of that company, the same PPL holder who operates the a/c through a company for tax reasons, allowed to remove the doors if he is privately flying it himself?

Disregarding any special rules from a company hiring an R22 to a PPL holder, can the private renter legally remove them?

BW

[delta3]

Are you kidding ?
They were designed to be removed by a 'user', it is all clipped !

If one continues this line of reasoning : can you put the controls, may you wash it, may you open the engine doors...

I would be more worried by making sure the pilot had at least some explicite training the fly without the doors (or in rudestuff's case with the doors)
During that training one would also be instructed how the remove, store and remount the doors. This is part of required technical machine knowledge imho.

d3

[bladewashout]

Yup, don't get me wrong here, I'm perfectly capable of taking them off and have done many times.

The issue is with the UK CAA rules, which heavily limit what pilots can do in the UK.

Would I take them off if I wanted to: of course. Am I allowed to? That's what I'm asking as I'm not sure it's permitted on a hired a/c unless done by a licensed engineer.

Sounds crazy, but that's uk flying...

BW

[puntosaurus]

Thanks Jim, that'll save me a deep dive. It looks from that excerpt then that I can only do it provided that I have an authorisation, but not when I'm at my home base. Talk about crazy :ugh: