MoD Real Estate

[althenick]

Hi To All
I’ve been musing over the defence cuts of late. I’m sure most of you would agree that some (if not all) are unfair. But I’ve just been on the RAF Website trying to find info on RAF Machrihanish, and guess what? It is “Currently under enhanced care and maintenance status”. Now about 20 miles across the firth of Clyde there is RNAS Prestwick, which I am told has to pay 8000 pounds every time they take off and land. For rescues alone there were 267 calls in 2005 which by my estimation is around 4.2 Million pounds. Now given the operating costs and Care and Maintenance costs of Machrihanish. Would there not be a case for moving HMS Gannet to Machrihanish? The only reason I can think of is that it is in the back of beyond and would prove to be an unpopular posting. Could there be other places that the MoD could save on real estate? Say by placing Smaller and/or Reserve units from other services into larger (but underused) establishments.

[The Swinging Monkey]

The problem with nearly all MOD land, is that there is a clause in most of them that says something along the lines of...'if the militaryt ever give them up, and return them top the owners, then they have to be returned in exactly the same condition as when they took them over'
Clearly the costs of that, are far greatewr than just leaving it in care and maintenance.
As for £8000 per movement, I find that a little hard to believe, unless of course it includes all the fuel, a/c time, crew wages, groundcrew etc etc.
As for Machrihanish............ooooh shhhh funny things happen up there you know!!
Kind regards to all
TSM

[PIK3141]

It is not believable that the Navy pay £8000 a landing. Maybe £80, which might put you a scale of 100 X out. Do you see £4.2 million in the PIK or Infratil accounts for this ? Utter nonsense I think you'll find if you bother to find out the facts of the matter.

[Jobza Guddun]

I have to say, I've met probably a dozen or more people who served at Mac, and not one had a bad word to say about the place, I kid you not.

Not really my cuppa though!

JG

PS On second thoughts perhaps they were all UFO spotters.....

[BEagle]

Or little green SEALs doing PRC-112 trials?

Ssssh - don't tell Weird Wally!

[microlight AV8R]

Wouldn't want to be accused of being a conspiracy theorist, but perhaps the retention of said (surplus) 3 mile runway is something to do with the hangar ? ;)

Oops, I reckon this thread might cause a stir at Menwith Hill, but that's another subject all together. :cool:

[Pierre Argh]

Don't think its a UK National Secret, but the MoD conducted a tri-service review of its airfields last year. (Defence Airfield Review Team)... they looked at the main bases trhough to gliding sites and those in C&M. The resukts will, hopefully, solve some of the problems of under-utilisation and over-pricing.

I think the figure for Prestwick might be the cost flying a Seaking... not simply the fees charged by the airport?

[fatobs]

althenick

As aircrew based at Gannet I can promise the landing fees are nothing like £8000 (try in vicinity of 100, which is still more than Ryanair!!).

As for moving to Machrihanish we have been round the buoy about this on numerous occasions. The response time for all jobs on the mainland would be 20 mins longer also every time we drop someone at hospital be it in Glasgow or crosshouse again it would have a further 20 mins added to each sortie for fuel etc so in the end it is not cost effective.

In the long run it doesn't really matter as we all know SAR is about to be restructured so we will wait and see

[chevvron]

For Macrihanish read Campbelltown Airport.
In any case , Mac was funded by NATO not MOD.

[althenick]

Thanks to all who have posted.. :ok:
I'm now enlightened about the Campelltown base, But the main thread of the debate has really not been answered. I accept there are issues with land owners and site condition (Gannet admin and Messing buildings are a prime example I suppose) but with the contraction of all three services I still believe that there is a good case for putting small units of any other units into larger establishments. For example (Since Rescue 177 can't go to Macrahannish) why not put the The Royal Logistic Corps Unit currently in Rented space in irvine into the Unused part of Gannet (Which the MoD are still paying for) and I dare say other units/Mod Departments could be comfortably housed there as well.
Fatobs -
Thanks for enlightening me on the subject of landing fees, But I dont see why the Mod should pay a red cent for Landing fees for what is essentially an emergency service. :mad:

[Mead Pusher]

Take a look at this article: http://www.land.army.r.mil.uk/landc/hqland/plans/media/pages/cuttings/060731-DEFENCE%20-%20Regions%20go%20to%20war%20over%20£10bn%20defence%20traini ng%20shake%20up.pdf

The Defence Training Rationalisation may see all military technical training moved to RAF St Athan - so Cosford could close! I've no particular axe to grind about Cosford / St Athan (although Cardiff is a great night out), but I do take exception to them describing St Athan as "another old RAF base" - it's still an RAF base now, and it's not that old!

Scary changes ahead, though, whoever wins the contract. :uhoh:

[Widger]

Mac used to be HMS Landrail.

Prestwick is no just an airfield, there are lots of other things going on there not least NPC.

For Airfield review, read....forget about all the great airfields with no controlled airspace around them and with easy access to low flying (Chivenor, St Mawgan, Brawdy, Coltishall) and base everything within 5 minutes of the A1 because that is where the two winged master race have their houses!

[Pontius Navigator]

easy access to . . . (Chivenor, St Mawgan, Brawdy, Coltishall)

Spares etc. Putting all your main assests on the main UK trunk - A1/M1/M11 east coast mainline makes sort of sense too.

Thought that is why Stafford and Carlisle, well out of reach of the Luftwaffe were being relocated nearer their customers.

[Lou Scannon]

We were always told that when the RAF decided on the suitability of Thorney Island as an airfield (BOI comments following the crash of a Fury there in 1938) they simply upped and bought the whole place.

The Army Royal Artillery use it now, but it still remains prime real estate, bang on the South coast with its own Marina etc.etc.

I forget how many acres but it must be worth around a billion for building land.

[Green Flash]

I thought Campbell-hanish was run by HIAL (http://www.hial.co.uk/campbeltown-airport.html) anyway?

[chevvron]

It is run by HIAL nowadays, but was originally funded by NATO, hence 10,000ft Standard NATO runway (as per Brize, Fairford, Bruntingthorpe, Elvington) instead of 9,000ft Standard RAF.

[Vasco Sodcat]

...and base everything within 5 minutes of the A1 because that is where the two winged master race have their houses!

Don't forget Cotswold Command :)