Airlines perception of a diabetic applicant

[fordy]

Hello everyone,

I am very glad i have found this forum. Hopefully I can start getting some answers to my queries.

To give you a little history, 3 years ago I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. It was quite a surreal experience because it was the day before i was due to travel down to the London air show to apply to OAT for the F-ATPL course. Needless to say I was told I had no chance.:= My dream was crushed in the space of 24hrs.

After 3 years of keeping myself stable, my type 1 diabetes took a different direction than anyone expected. My insulin requirements where minimal and my sugar levels where always going low. I obviously didn't need the insulin. After a few blood tests, the doctors signed me off as a type 1 diabetic to being a diet controlled diabetic. My sugar levels have stayed perfect without insulin for the last 6 weeks.:)

After speaking with the CAA, I know that I have a very good chance of passing the class 1 medical. My uncertainty is (after all that);

It's all good and well passing the medical, but after I have spent 60k on getting my Frozen-ATPL, how would the airlines perceive my application?

[EGBKFLYER]

If you have a class 1 and a licence, the airlines would be on very dodgy ground refusing your application on the grounds of diabetes, especially given the Disability Discrimination Act (I'm aware you are not 'disabled' in the traditional sense but happlily you are covered by this Act with your condition). Thomsonfly are the only airline I've come across so far that ask any medical questions on the initial application form so I wouldn't worry too much at this stage - get the class 1 first.

[fordy]

Thanks for your reply EGBKFLYER,

I guess that is good news for me. I am just concerned that after spending so much money training, the airlines might view me as a greater risk, both medically and on employment grounds if my diet control turns to type 2 in the future to another student without. I know it is discrimination if they do. Life just isn't always fair.

I think I will go for it (depending on the outcome of my class 1 medical). I have got a sniff of flying back, and i want more. :):)

[Oh that's super!]

I'm not trying to be pessimistic here, but you need to also consider the effect of schedule (that is, work schedule) on your diabetes.

Airline flying often brings about a lot of very irregular hours - and that includes irregular eating hours and irregular eating habits. If that may affect your diabetes adversely, it is something you need to seriously take into consideration.

£60,000 is a lot of money to spend, and while you can take out a loss of licence insurance, the insurer may exclude a pre-existing condition or worsening thereof.

I wish you all the best, but I do recommend looking into things very carefully.

[fordy]

I'm not trying to be pessimistic here, but you need to also consider the effect of schedule (that is, work schedule) on your diabetes.


I would say your being realistic. To be honest, thats what i need. It is an exciting turn for me, and i think i could get carried away easily.

Since stopping insulin, i have had now problems with low sugars, even after long periods between meals. My C-Peptide (own insulin level) is 1090. A type 1 diabetics is under 500. As long as i stay fit, i should be able to sustain my current control.

I will look into the insurance. Are there any companies in particular i should look for?

Cheers for the advice.

[Mac the Knife]

Hi fordy,

Glad your islet cells have started to wake up again!

I'm only a surgeon, not a diabetologist (though I did work with Prof. Alberti as a medical houseman), but I'd be a bit guarded about what is going to happen with your islet cell function in 5, 10 or 15 years time. It would be a pity to put down 60K and then in 5 years time you're back on the insulin.

From what little I know, your case sounds unusual. It might not be a bad idea to go and see a real diabetes mega-fundi apart from your normal consultant. I have no idea who the big names in clinical diabetologists are these days, but you should be able to find out. If not, I could try and make some long distance enquiries for you.

Cheers

Mac :ok:

Edited to add: Googling for "type 1 diabetes remission" seems to indicate that a period of apparent remission after starting insulin injections is fairly common. This "honeymoon period" can last for months and occasionally years but patients usually seem to start needing insulin shots again after a while.

But don't rely on me or Google - go and talk to a real expert.

[fordy]

Hi Mac,

Thats for your reply and offer. I really appreciate all the advice everyone is giving. This forum has very generous users. I spend alot of time in web developer forums that are fully of users with attitude. It is a refreshing change. Thank you.

I have asked my consultant if there is any chance of my diabetes going back to type 1. He said there isn't. Basically, when i was diagnosed i had all the symptoms of a type 1 but it might have been early onset type 2. I have lost alot of weight and got alot healthier since diagnosis, resulting in the change. Therefore, i think it could go to type 2 in the future but the healthier / thinner i stay, the less likely it will be.

With the honeymoon period, the persons body still has some islet cells left in their body. These islet cells gradually reduce until there are no more. The honeymoon is over and control is a little more difficult. Honeymoons are very common. however, my honeymoon period has sort of reversed. This is uncommon.

I think i will get the advice of the CAA and a second, possibly third consults view. Better to be sure.

cheers again :)

[fordy]

hi Ozymandias,

cheers for the advice.

I personally feel i that i was mis-diagnosed at the start, although i did have every single symtoms of type 1 (ketones, etc...). It is really annoying because if i was even type 2, i would have had a small chance.

In response to your advice about keeping current skills, i am a web developer at present. I have put alot of effort into getting the skills i have learnt since my diagnosis so it would be a pitty to loose them, but flying is what i want to do.

One of my thoughts was to get trained up to be an business jet pilot. Would i be right in thinking my time would be a little more flexible than with the large airlines?:confused: This would be better for maintaining my current skills and my health. After paying out for the training, how well do business jet pilots get paid? Is there much difference to airline first officers?

Also, i think i will keep away from the cabin crew. Can't be doing with the pain:ugh:

[Seat1APlease]

Just a couple of thoughts.

The CAA/JAA basically assess you on your health now, and in the period that your license will be valid. It doesn't mean that in ten or fifteen years down the line that they will still revalidate you if the condition worsens, or if their rules change.

The other problem is that controlling diabetes with diet involves eating the right things and at the right intervals which isn't really convenient in the context of commercial flying, with long sectors and unhealthy food. You may find yourself arriving at some hotel in the small hours with the only option being a burger and a beer.

Even business jets do transatlantic sectors, and you can't really stop everything half way through an arrival or departure to monitor your sugar levels and have your chocolate bar or whatever. Yet if you don't keep on top of it and have just a single diabetic attack in flight then I suspect any employer would not take the risk of you having a second one.

It is a lot of money (£50,000 minimum) to invest in a career which may be limited to five or ten years, and the days when the airlines offered final salary pension schemes with generous ill-health index-linked pensions are unlikely to return. I doubt that an private insurer would cover this for loss of licence but by all means try. On the other hand some airlines give insurance as part of the package and provided you are licensed when you join the company then you are automatically covered without exclusions.

Perhaps there are other things that could be considered such as instructing where the financial investment is more realistic, or even turning your web business into the next google and flying as a hobby.

Whatever you decide to do I wish you all the best.

[fordy]

I guess, in my situation, i will get more security in an airline.

Is there anyone that has (or knows someone) diet controlled diabetes that flys commercially. This is certainly a huge risk for me, and it would be interesting to know if anyone has gone through this before.

What are the names of the insurance companies that cover pilots. i think it would be a good idea to have a chat with them aswell.

Thanks again.

[Bealzebub]

The CAA standards for the issue of a class 1 and to a slightly lesser extent class 2 medical certificate, are generally based upon the medical "fitness" of the applicant. This is to ensure that the standards are maintained and the applicant and their potential employer can in fairness be reasonably assured of a likelihood of a lengthy career.

There can never be any guarantee that an applicant who meets the standards will not fall down and die the minute they have the piece of paper in their hand, conversely that somebody who fails to achieve the standard will not live a full and uneventful life or even achieve the standard laid down by another authority. However the requirements (with some flexibility) are set down limits within which the applicant is required to meet. These limits are in many cases set to provide for natural degredation over the following years, such that there is a reasonable chance that most applicants would be able to complete their careers.

It is not a perfect science, but it provides a fair approach to both the applicant and the employer. Most employers will accept the authorities standards as satisfying their own employment credential on this basis.

In your case ( as in any other ) you really must obtain the necessary class 1 certificate before you invest any serious money in this pursuit. You should also accept that the authority is only likely to issue a certificate if it is reasonably confident that your medical condition is not likely to be an early cause for concern.