area or tower?

[gary_4409]

i have yet to start my tatc course with nats and i was wondering what is generally thought to be the more interesting, area or tower control?

[Gonzo]

If you even have to ask, then you'd best go area.

Those of more independent thinking will choose to work at the sharp end. :E

[AlanM]

When you say the "to be the more interesting, area or tower control?" do you mean the job or the people.

I will let you make your own mind up based on Gonzo's "sharp end" comment!! :)

[Kestrel_909]

Am I right in thinking that a few weeks in, you get to say a preference for one or the other but not always likely to get it, especially if aerodrome?

Out of interest, how is it decided?

[AlanM]

Captain Spunkfarter and his wannabe slave (shall we call him "Gonzo") come to the college and hand pick the best of the best (It's just like Top Gun!)

If you are REALLY, REALLY lucky you get to avoid LHR! :ok:

[Gonzo]

AlanM,

We even play the Top Gun theme tune as we enter the room.....

[Gonzo]

Kestrel 909,

You do get to state your preference.

'I don't know' is the answer to your second question.

[AlanM]

You're holding on too tight Gonzo - time to let go.

[Gonzo]

You're holding on too tight Gonzo - time to let go.

That's what she said..... :}

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Our client, Gonzo, would like to make it known that at no stage in his career has he ever undertaken any duties or tasks at the behest of Head of Training at Heathrow that could in any way, shape or form be construed as befitting a 'slave', let alone a 'wannabe slave'. Any circumstancial evidence to the contrary is purely coincidental.

On a personal note, and completely unconnected with AlanM's poisonous and bitter meanderings on this thread, I'd like to point out that jealousy is an ugly emotion when displayed in public.

Regards,

R. Dewey
Senior partner
Dewey, Cheetam and Howe

[GuruCube]

Hmmm... In my opinion, you shouldnt ask that question! Well, let me clarify... you should phrase it differently! Why?

Mainly, because people will give you different views about what they do, especially as a lot of people these days are single skilled in terms of their everyday job. Ive spoken to many radar controllers who love radar and cant stand the thought of tower. :confused:
Now me... I love working in a tower and I have no urge to work radar. I love looking out the window, seeing trees, the sun, the rain, the clouds, building CBs, sunsets and sunrise (Which makes morning shifts worthwhile!) and most importantly, the amazing feat which is man-made aircraft flying!! It always amazes me!:)
But my point is that whoever you ask can argue the point for what they like, but its your decision!! :cool:

[GuruCube]

Oh, and to further add to the case Gonzo vs. AlanM, I think that not being selected for LL was one of the best things that happened to me. Seriously. :)

But I wouldnt want to lob a rather large cat into a small bag of birds now...




And again, for the benefit of the initial question asker and anyone else choosing places to work, thats individual choice!! :)

[AlanM]

Then stop grooming wannabee's.... wannabe boy!! :)

Nothing to be jealous about, tower only chap. Get some A380s movements in the log and I will be impressed!!! :)

[Gonzo]

Damn it man, I have over 300 business cards with those silly red and yellow stripes. I need to give them away somehow!

Gary 4409, being serious for a moment: Working in a tower means you see aeroplanes. That's a bonus for some. Another plus is that you'll work at an airport, and there is something to be said for that. Make you feel part of something. Personally I'd rather work at an airport than at an aera centre out in the sticks or on a housing estate in West Drayton. Don't get me wrong, I love doing radar when I have the chance (although nowadays it's more often in a sim than not), but I wouldn't give up working in the tower.

I know plenty of guys who wanted to work at an airport whilst they were at the college, but got put on the area course. None of them feel like they missed out, or regret it. It's that sort of job.

[Kestrel_909]

Kestrel 909,

You do get to state your preference.

'I don't know' is the answer to your second question.


I see, thanks.
Maybe one of these days I will actually meet you, bloke with the cigar, right?

[Gonzo]

You're not the one who's stalking me now, are you? :eek:

[Kestrel_909]

You're not the one who's stalking me now, are you? :eek:
I prefer the term observing, sir.


BTW you're left lace is undone:ooh:

[Gonzo]

That'll teach one to give out an email address when one is tipsy.

Two mince pies and one is anybody's!!!

[AlanM]

Good heavens G - are you confusing mince pie with "mince by"??

[5milesbaby]

Very difficult question to answer and a very dangerous question to ask, it can open up the "us and them" can. I'd probably say that if you are undecided or don't really have a preference then just go with whatever you get and you'll probably really enjoy it. Personally I went in thinking I'd love to sit in a tower staring out watching the birds get airborne and fly away, I had great fun doing the Aerodrome course, still remember all the great times I had on my 6 weeks training I did at Gatwick, am always up for a visit into a tower where ever it may be, and will sit at an airport waiting to go away and watch the movements for a while. However you'll have to fight hard to get my radar ticket changed over to tower. The thrill of moving aircraft all over the sky and making them miss while they climb out or descend in, or being the first to help when they REALLY need it, can give you such a buzz when you walk away knowing what you have just managed to do. Every seat in every ATC position be it Area, Approach or Tower has the ability to provide that so I wouldn't worry too much about what you would prefer to do, just go and enjoy what you actually get.

[gary_4409]

cheers guys, i visited atlantic house at prestwick and was fascinated by what went on there, on the other hand working at an airport and seeing aircraft that you have just communicated with coming into land really appeals to me.. so i ll probly just go for the old toss of the coin and hope for the best

cheers

[throw a dyce]

Gary,
If you go to a unit with tower and approach radar,then that can be more interesting than single discipline,whether it be Area or Tower.The down side is that these units are seen by Nats as a much lower form of pond life,and dismissed by people at the bigger units.You'll have a much better understanding of all aspects of Airports,but an ordinary car in the carpark..;)

[semifinalist]

hi guys,

just wondering, when one asks the question "Aerodrome or Area?", where does Approach fit in?

[PPRuNe Radar]

semi

The answer is that it depends ..... Approach is done at the same place as the Tower, except for the London area airports, i.e. City, Gatwick, Heathrow, Luton, and Stansted.

[semifinalist]

i was actually asking more in the general sense rather than from a Nats operations point of view. but thanks pprune.

i always thought there to be either 3 or 5 types of air traffic control:

3:Aerodrome, Approach, Area

5:Ground, Tower, Approach, Low level, High level


it's just that there is a poll on our course 209 forum asking "which would you prefer: Aerdrome or Area?

since i would prefer Approach i wasn't sure as i always thought approach to be a breed of control in itself.

[PPRuNe Radar]

If you are with someone other than NATS, Area is a superfluous question, hence I don't see your point ;)

At least on this thread :)

[ATCO1962]

By far and away, my "funnest" years were at a TWR/APP unit in New Zealand many years ago. They let you loose in a single man/woman TWR at the advanced age of, oh, twenty, and expected you to provide quality ATC to upwards of 150 movements a day on your lonesome. I have so many great war stories/memories ranging from creative uses of bird scaring cartridges and flare pistols to UFO reports from some local farmer to "braking action check" rides in our airport inspection vehicle on frosty mornings. It was non-stop fun and you got to know local pilots well and got lots of rides in all sorts of exotic beasts.

However, as age and bills increase, the logical step is into a centre and you get paid more for taking on the extra responsibility. I'm typing this in the restroom of a Middle Eastern ATC centre but I must say, although the work is still fun and challenging, it doesn't feel as good as my early years in that procedural APP/TWR unit. Sigh!

[throw a dyce]

Semi,
I think that students are going straight to the London Airports without any form of Approach rating (scary:\ ).TC is a Approach/area unit.If you go to any other Nats ''Aerodrome'' you need Approach Radar to be of any use.
It was said on a Discovery Doco that Area contollers were butchers,while Approach radar controllers were surgeons.Not my words:cool:

[semifinalist]

When we students are at the stage of being asked which is our preference, will be asked to decide between:

Area or Aerodrome

or

Area, Tower or Approach?

[Lon More]

In Area at least you will get to see the big picture :cool:
In Tower you could end up selling it:rolleyes:

[NeoDude]

In Area at least you will get to see the big picture :cool:
In Tower you could end up selling it:rolleyes:

I don't get it :confused:

Selling what?

[throw a dyce]

Big Issue:ok: :ok: Come to think those guys are on a better deal than Approach and Tower guys at PD.Nae helicopters and nae stress.:ugh:

[NeoDude]

How much lower is the salary for tower folks?

[throw a dyce]

Nats Edinburgh is about £16K less than Scatcc,and £21K less than Band 5 London units (Top of the scale).All the Nats Scottish airports need Tower and Approach Radar tickets,but get paid way less than the centres,or down south.Fact of life and considering the rocketing traffic levels and house prices,its a load of Kack..:mad: :mad:

[NeoDude]

So, you are talking about £24k after validation?

[Gonzo]

Throw a Dyce,

Why not come 'down south' then, and earn that bit more? :E

[NeoDude]

OK, I better concentrate on passing the test and interview first though :cool:

[throw a dyce]

Gonzo,
Yeah your right.If you can't beat them join them.Only trouble is it will take me donkey years to escape.Our traffic is way up,but staff levels are critical.By the time the staffing levels are sufficient (2008 was it:D :D ,more like 2018) I'll be too F:mad: ing old.
All we're looking for is fair treatment.But that ain't going to happen:ugh:. You could always come up here,dust off that radar rating,keep you're tower rating and get £21 K less:E .Oil at $75+ a barrel,and this Airport is one of the key ones in the country.Nats thinks it's a grass field at the Arse end of the Universe..Anyway enough thread slip.Been talked about til we're :( in the face

[Medway Control]

This is a simple question to answer from the college perspective...

If u want aerodrome or approach, you can ask. But your request means very very very little... Be prepared for area. If you get anything else, your a lucky lucky :mad: .

I wanted area, I got area. Some people however wanted to wander to the dark side and go tower/approach... some got lucky, but few

[foghorn]

since i would prefer Approach i wasn't sure as i always thought approach to be a breed of control in itself.

Aerodrome and Approach are separate disciplines, but are often lumped together as 'Airports', since traditionally you did both disciplines and were based on the airport with the radar room either in or close to the tower building.

Since the advent of TC, with the London airports Approach and TMA Area controllers sitting in the same control room off the airport leaving Aerodrome-only controllers on the airports themselves, the definitions have blurred somewhat.

[Courtenay]

From a purely mercenary approach....

My understanding is that most people get area?
Most people that get area get West Drayton? - which is band 5 (top money)

If you do approach or tower you very from band 1-5?

Therefore if you don’t care very much which you do, isn’t area a good idea for the extra £££?

Cheers,

James.

PS the question marks indicate I don’t know the above but and am asking, before anyone says I am totally wrong! :)

[Gonzo]

Most area guys will go to Swanwick.

And they tell us that in October 2007 TC (W Drayton) will be moving down to Swanwick too. (NATS date........cough cough........)

[Courtenay]

sorry that's where I meant.

But that is Band 5 for everyone there, right?

James.

[Gonzo]

Both W Drayton and Swanwick are Band 5, yes.

[Roffa]

Maybe when we're joined up again into a mega unit they'll make us Band 6 :}