Training in OFT

[waveydavey]

I am seriously considering OFT, however my other half will most likely be coming along and will amuse herself, more than likely by flexing the plastic and do her bit to increase our debt.
Is there much around the area to keep her amused while i'm flying?
Also, I see that for the PPL they offer a VIP course of 2 weeks for an additional £800 or so... anyone done that or heard if it's worth it?

cheers

[Quincy M.E.]

Hi

I presume you mean Orlando Flight Training in Kissimee?

If so then I would say that Kissimee itself does not offer much in the way of things to do but it is really close to Orlando and its many attractions.

Then again, I only went into town to 'eat' so maybe there are things around.

PS I found the flying school really good and it is great seeing all the atractions from the air. Also there were other people there who had brought their partners but I dont know about the VIP thing. Personally I think it is quite a lot to fit into 2 weeks especially if some flights get cancelled due to bad weather.

[waveydavey]

Thanks, I do mean Orlando Flight Training in Kissimee.

I am thinking about the 2 week PPL however concerned that it may not be enough time or they may rush it? Anyone done this course?

ta

[Crosswind Limits]

waveydavey

I did some hours building at OFT a few years ago. It's an OK place but not that much to do in Kissimmee without a car.

You are absolutely right 2 weeks is NOT ENOUGH time to complete a PPL properly. People do it though but it can't be much fun. Remember when you return to the UK most clubs will get you to do quite a few hours with them before they allow you to go solo in one of their aircraft. From my experience the majority of these 2 week PPL graduates are barely average at general handling, poor at navigation and weak on the theory side.

Always remember a PPL is a licence to learn and NOTHING more!

[Quincy M.E.]

I agree with crosswind.

I went there to do mine in 3 weeks and I thought that that was a push. I just dont think there is the time or the structure to do it so intensivly. Watch out for the time of year you go also; I went in September and every afternoon, like clockwork, there would be a thunder storm.

[bladewashout]

I did 3 weeks rotary PPL there 2 years ago, it was a bit unprofessional, in my opinion, but I went back about 6 months ago for a one-off and they seem to have cleaned up their act a lot.

It's a bit intense - you can help relieve the pressure if you get some, or all, of the exams out of the way before you go, else you just fly & study with little time for any socialising and your family will hate you. If you're only flying you can probably spend more time with your other half doing stuff. Exams + PPL 40 hours in 2 weeks is pretty much impossible from scratch. I got exams + 42 hours in 3 weeks but the constant pressure meant (for me) that I think about half the lessons were wasted because I hadn't absorbed the previous lesson before taking the next! Had to do another 30 hours in the UK to get the PPLH.

Very little to do in Kissimmee itself, but there's loads of malls and attractions within 30 minutes drive. OFT have deals with various hotels from about $15/night, but if I were you I'd get a villa in one of the (many) local communities within about 10 mins drive of the field.

Make sure you know all of their 'extras' charges - they add some per-hour fuel charges on and check on any landing fees.

All-in-all, if I had the time again, I would pay the extra and do it in a more leisurely fashion in the UK.

BW

[tangovictor]

I did 3 weeks rotary PPL there 2 years ago, it was a bit unprofessional, in my opinion, but I went back about 6 months ago for a one-off and they seem to have cleaned up their act a lot.
It's a bit intense - you can help relieve the pressure if you get some, or all, of the exams out of the way before you go, else you just fly & study with little time for any socialising and your family will hate you. If you're only flying you can probably spend more time with your other half doing stuff. Exams + PPL 40 hours in 2 weeks is pretty much impossible from scratch. I got exams + 42 hours in 3 weeks but the constant pressure meant (for me) that I think about half the lessons were wasted because I hadn't absorbed the previous lesson before taking the next! Had to do another 30 hours in the UK to get the PPLH.
Very little to do in Kissimmee itself, but there's loads of malls and attractions within 30 minutes drive. OFT have deals with various hotels from about $15/night, but if I were you I'd get a villa in one of the (many) local communities within about 10 mins drive of the field.
Make sure you know all of their 'extras' charges - they add some per-hour fuel charges on and check on any landing fees.
All-in-all, if I had the time again, I would pay the extra and do it in a more leisurely fashion in the UK.
BW

at last someone who's talking sense, I would imagine there's many many pilots that have taken the US route, and won't admit, that in the cold light of day, it probably cost more, than training here in the UK,
if your going to fly here, train here !

[bladewashout]

Sad but true.

Even if you pass in the minimum number of hours, you'd be nuts to come back to the UK and fly without a fair amount of instructor time to get used to UK flying.

It's not cheaper but can be quicker if your brain and temperament are up to it, because the weather is guaranteed.

Mine weren't!

BW

[SD.]

I forgot Cessna and Piper manufacture their aircraft to fly different in the UK :ugh:

If you choose to learn to fly in the states, I'd advise you to goto your local flight school and get the ground studies done beforehand. If you have any concearns or questions about flying in the US, drop me a pm. :ok:

[waveydavey]

I didn't realise the UK flight schools would let me do my ground studies here only to fly elsewhere?

[Bahn-Jeaux]

I forgot Cessna and Piper manufacture their aircraft to fly different in the UK

More pertinent is the fact that the RT is different in the UK.
Weather is different too so a newly minted US PPL coming back having flown in near perfect conditions dai;y, then encounters the good old british weather and more complex RT, ....

[Roffa]

I forgot Cessna and Piper manufacture their aircraft to fly different in the UK :ugh:

The a/c don't fly any differently but there are major differences in rules and procedures.

For example, try applying US Class D airspace transit procedures over here...

p.s. purely as a renter and not a student, didn't think much of OFT a few years ago but I suppose they may have improved since.

[waveydavey]

at last someone who's talking sense, I would imagine there's many many pilots that have taken the US route, and won't admit, that in the cold light of day, it probably cost more, than training here in the UK,
if your going to fly here, train here !
I am trying to do the sums to compare costs for UK vs USA training, and I cannot see how they can work out comparable. Please forgive me if I have missed something obvious, I am new to this.
UK costs (from my local flight school)
Flight Training 45-60hrs ₤6390-8520
Circuits ₤180
Other Landing Fees ₤75
Equipment ₤190
Membership 18 months ₤88.13
Ground School ₤105.75
Ground Exams ₤82.25
Radio Practical with Training ₤100
Medical ₤50
PPL Licence Issue ₤159
Skill Test Exam Fee + Aircraft Solo Hire Rate
Total ₤7500-9700
USA costs (from OFT)
PLP 3 week course inc accom. £3,714
Skills test £190.
RT test £51
TSA application £86.
Fuel Surcharge?
Books and materials. £200
Flight to USA £400
UK flights 4hrs £460
total £5101

Obviously there are some factors in the UK costs that would be borne anyway - club membership for example, but they are still a long way apart.

[Crosswind Limits]

Now add on to your OFT price the cost of doing at least another 5-10 hours dual training in the UK (in some cases even more) before a decent UK flying club will let you solo in one of their aircraft and the prices are not that different at all!

The truth is the only people who are impressed by their newly-minted JAA PPLs from the US are the new licence holders themselves! That's it!

[waveydavey]

I have included that, although looking at it I wasn't very explicit with the description - only 4 hrs Uk flights at £460. Maybe a little low but still doesnt go near the full UK cost.

I agree that UK training is the ideal option, however I plan on taking the modular route to FATPL eventually and so in my personal position I need to keep costs down where possible. USA training appears to do that.

[Esperanza]

Crosswind Limits, Bladewashout, and Tangovictor. Where were you when I needed your help (Learning to fly in the USA)?
Waveydavey. The chaps on this thread have had the decency to tell it how it is. Hallelujah. The US can be a great place to learn to fly. I know because that's were I learnt. My advice would be to thoroughly research your school of choice and then really make the most of your training once it commences.
In my opinion, two weeks is way too short a length of time to complete the course. Three weeks is pushing things.
Good luck.:ok:

[Crosswind Limits]

You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink!;)

Listen, I'll say this once and then I will retire. Don't always go for the cheap option you may live to regret it later - quality training is worth the extra whether it's UK or US. I'm talking from personal experience and the experience of many of my peers. Invariably when people budget for flight training they nearly always underestimate. They don't see this at the time but afterwards they do and then they try to point this out to the next bunch of wannabes but are met with the same response! And the cycle goes on!!:}

Do the research and then do what you have to do. There's a lot of useful information on this forum mixed in with a lot of rubbish. Be careful what you choose to believe or disbelieve!

Good luck!

[SD.]

More pertinent is the fact that the RT is different in the UK.
Weather is different too so a newly minted US PPL coming back having flown in near perfect conditions dai;y, then encounters the good old british weather and more complex RT, ....

More complex RT? Have a listen to this
http://www.scansandiego.net/Scanner/pls/scansandiego_s2.pls

That live feed is from SoCal approach (and other local frequencies), primarily for the heavies however VFR traffic can use this service and infact towards the end of my students course I encourage them to use SoCal for radar services. If you can use the RT in Southern California then you'll be good to go anywhere in the UK. Transitioning Class D or Bravo is no different. Infact I feel much safer speaking to professionals rather than some old fart in an air-to-ground shed.

I admit this time of year in SoCal is pretty much sky clear, however Florida will give you nasty surprises in the mid afternoon. During the winter time around San Diego will give you Wx to play around with if that's what you want.

Regarding the quality of instruction........

You get good and bad everywhere. I personally won't hand off a JAA PPL (or sign off an FAA PPL) to an examiner unless he/she is ready to pass the checkride first time. If he/she fails then I've failed in my job and the best feeling is when the examiner congratulates you on producing a competant and proficient pilot. :ok:


Also if you choose to goto to yanksville, I'd budget and allow for 4 weeks. From my experience, its a squeeze to get done in 3 weeks and can be quite stressful if the Wx or A/C service don't go your way. Good luck

[bladewashout]

You'll only really appreciate the issues related above once you have done a PPL, and then it's a bit academic.

It's not a life-changing 'mistake' either way. Do your research and make a decision. If you decide on the US and later decide it was not as good as you expected, you'll still eventually get a PPL and can join the list of people who warn others against the somewhat optimistic US flight school marketing and the differences when you get back.

Most right-minded people will figure out that they have to do some work to get comfortable back in the UK, and get over the 'cramming' forgetfulness to re-learn stuff.

Make sure you have a budget for the UK costs, because if it doesn't work out as well in the US as you expect, that's what you'll end up spending anyway!

Good luck

BW

[acuba 290]

UK-registered school in Spain, JAR-PPL&RT in 4x weeks:
incl. all exams, books to study, medical, CAA issue fees, living, car rental,almost 50 hrs flying with 172 & all landing fees and tickets to Spain, all together: 7500 GBP

[tangovictor]

wavey, you forgot living ex's whilst in the US, also, just susposing you need extra time / hours, and you have already booked your homebound flight ?
nightmare, if your going to fly in the UK, learn in the UK

[nigelisom]

The other thing to bear in mind is that if you cannot afford to train in the UK, can you afford to fly here? The training hours are mearly the first few hours of your flying expenses, admittedly once trained you are (mostly) not paying for an instructors time but the vast bulk of the cost per hour is the cost of the flying and you will want to do that anyway.
The upside is that once trained there are at least various routes to (slightly) reducing the cost of the flying hours (shares, pfa aircraft etc) but the training is only the first bit of a very expensive passion.
Don't let that put you off, just be aware that unless you invest even more in training and get professional qualifications and thus someone else to pay for your hobby, it is the beginning of an ongoing drain on your finances.
WORTH EVERY PENNY IN MY VIEW, just wish I was richer so could do more.

Nigel

[unfazed]

if your going to fly in the UK, learn in the UK

No round the world global flying for anyone then ?

Sounds like any round the world record attempts would need a pilot who was licensed in every single country that was flown over.

Come on weather doesn't respect international boundaries, fog is fog wherever you find it !

The above is the sales pitch given to punters by clubs who want them to spend more money and stay at home....how do they achieve that? by sowing the seeds of fear.....once you buy into that bulls%it then of course you spread that nonsense yourself because you did it so it must be the right thing to do (your not daft are you? well are you???)

[waveydavey]

Well thanks for all the advice. I'm now leaning toward the PPL in UK and reducing costs by doint a chunk of hour building in USA afterwards. Plus I found Cleveland flying school at Teesside Airport offer PPL based on 45 hours for £4995. I realise i'll probably go over that requirement in hours but it seems reasonable. Anyone have any experiences of Cleveland Flying school?

[Paris Dakar]

waveydavey,

As has already been mentioned - check out the following thread......:ugh:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=234597
I tried to look at the Cleveland Flying School website but it appears that their homepage is down at present.

If you fancy a meet up - just drop me a PM, I only live a few miles away from EGNT so I can see you there or we could meet in the Toon!

PD :ok: