Second Officers leaving Cathay?

[Yeager]

Hi out there,

Was wondering what the statistics are with regards to Second Officers leaving Cathay these days?

Out of the 6 direct entry S/Os I joined with in late 2004, 3 have already left for other opportunities.
That leaves the statistics, as from our class, at 50%.

2 left for Europe (1 old job back, 1 lowcoast), 1 for Aussieland (lowcoast).

Best regards.
Y

[Speed Weasel]

I know for sure one from my class just left who joined in late 2005. With rumours of a few more heading back to Canada with the hiring going on there. Interesting times ahead.

S.W.

[SkyCruiser]

It does not surprise me in the slightest. I wonder how many have also had the thoughts about leaving, I know I have.

With upgrades talking close to four years and constant sims with some "not so nice" sim instructors, who would blame these guys for uping sticks and heading home!!!:ok: :D :D :D :D :D

And now direct entry F/Os.:ugh:

[Aussie]

Cant be that bad, surely...

[Kane Toed]

No, it's not.

[QFinsider]

A rumour doing the rounds down here is that a substantial number of QF S/O's have active applications at CX...Who can blame them

That number will increase as the management destroy what is left...:suspect:

[Veruka Salt]

. . . . and a few F/Os too QFinsider ;) ;)

[Centaurus]

2 left for Europe (1 old job back, 1 lowcoast), 1 for Aussieland (lowcoast).

You take the low coast and I'll take the high coast and I'll be in Scotland before ye....

[Monarch Man]

With upgrades talking close to four years and constant sims with some "not so nice" sim instructors, who would blame these guys for uping sticks and heading home!!!

Not so nice sim instructors? Is this a throwback to the bad old days of "do as I say laddie..Ive forgotten more than you'll ever learn!" or is it more a case of a bit of fascism in the sim?

Not tryin to shyte on anyones parade..but I have heard some frightful stories....anyone care to comment?:ok:

[preset]

Not so nice sim instructors? Is this a throwback to the bad old days of "do as I say laddie..Ive forgotten more than you'll ever learn!" or is it more a case of a bit of fascism in the sim?

Not tryin to shyte on anyones parade..but I have heard some frightful stories....anyone care to comment?:ok:

Has it ever occurred to anybody it might be about standards ? I'm not suggesting that the odd instructor wouldn't benefit from some CRM however I know for a fact <some> S/Os come to the sim not as well prepared as they could be. S/Os don't get enough hands on time as it is so best to use the time to the utmost when you get it.
Apologies to those who put in the 110% preparation if the above sounds like a lecture, I don't mean it to be:)

[Monarch Man]

Has it ever occurred to anybody it might be about standards ?

Yes it had, which is why I asked the question:ok:
As I said..Im not sitting here passing judgement, far from it, CX is a place Im interested in as a DEFO.
I would say regarding the odd CRM instructor needing CRM training..is no different to anywhere else! Some...where I work need beating about the head with a short lump of 4" X 2" :8

[SkyCruiser]

Not so much a prep problem, more an ERAS problem.....

[preset]

MM didn't mean to infer anyone passing judgement etc, apologies if it sounded that way.

ERAS problem only if what is written is not true. From my experience this is not the case. The S/O's opinion of his performance may differ from the instructor however the observer is usually in a better position to make the assessment & usually has more experience to do so.
Again I'm not trying to be confrontational but there seems to be a perception out there that less than glowing ERAS reports are written to hold S/Os back, that is far from the truth in fact the opposite is closer to the truth.

[SkyCruiser]

Preset,

It's good to hear your take on such matters and I am sure most of the sim instructors are writing the truth. But, some instructors ARE using ERAS as a means to scare the SH1T out of some of the guys.

[preset]

I agree, it's not the way to train however I believe this is the exception rather than the rule.

[SkyCruiser]

I hope so mate.....

[clear.right]

It does sound like a lecture... Hands on time? What hands on time? Is that when you do the fuel check? Last time I checked a level change isn't hands on time.

[airamerica]

How long does it take for an SO to transfer to say the A330/ B777 as an FO?Is there such possiblity/whats the normal route to those positions?
AA

[Aussie]

From what i read, the current time to upgrade SO to JFO is about 3 or so yrs...

Aussie

[tifters]

Good to see guys getting opportunities elsewhere, options are a good thing remember.
Current time for S.Os is 3 years and 8 months to J.F.O.
There are lots of hoops to jump through on the way but hey, we keep harking on about being highly trained professionals so.......
All these signs of options for pilots can only mean the worm is turning, hopefully we can soon make the most of it and as in the words of a great 777 T.C "They shall be calling us sir again soon!"
Good luck to all!!

[preset]

It does sound like a lecture... Hands on time? What hands on time? Is that when you do the fuel check? Last time I checked a level change isn't hands on time.

Well obviously I was referring to the simulator. Not being able to fly the aircraft for 3+ years is far from desirable, the sim is the next best thing although not ideal I will admit. I would hope any pilot not just S/Os would make the most of it. We all get precious little time to practise in these days of cost cutting etc.

[The Management]

Sorry tifters, “Sir” not in your lifetime! Not that many S/O’s leaving and we have stacks waiting.

You demand to be called “Sir”, we will dismiss a couple pilots and you will run with your tail between your legs.

Never forget who has the “CONTROL”

The Management

NOT

the pilots.:ouch:

[THE PILOTS]

Sorry tifters, “Sir” not in your lifetime! Not that many S/O’s leaving and we have stacks waiting.
You demand to be called “Sir”, we will dismiss a couple pilots and you will run with your tail between your legs.
Never forget who has the “CONTROL”
The Management
NOT
the pilots.:ouch:
Are you sure? := :ugh:

[The Management]

Oh yes, undoubtedly!

[electricjetjock]

Very droll "The Management".:D

Pity your "handle" does not live up to expectations. To be called a "Manager" you actually have to "Manage" not just behave like a school bully because you own the "trainset". Just think what you could achieve if you actively "managed" your staff. A "BIGGER" management bonus "SIR".:E

[The Management]

I think we manage quite well don’t you think? Profit of $3.2 billion and the staff didn’t get a cent. Do you know what my bonus subsisted of? It was very nice to say the least.

It cost money to manage staff and the less control we have, the more money we waste. We pay our staff, but we take in back in productivity, annual leave, rosters, staff travel and no pay raises to mention a few. Your annual increment is your pay rise.

Look at all the carriers in the North America that have relinquished control to their staff, I believe they call it Chapter 11.

I will make myself clear, you will never have “Control” over your roster, annual leave and we will continue to make money on staff travel and no pay raises. We will take productivity when we need it. Do you remember RP 2001 (700 to 900 hrs/annum)?

We will “Manage” to hire Direct Entry First Officers on a base/Hong Kong on reduced salary and Cabin Crew more frequently on a base/Hong Kong.

Contracts are binding in honour only as you will see with those 49er court cases in Hong Kong. If you contemplate capturing some control, we will have a reason to dismiss some pilots. So thread very lightly. Your current boys club realises this.

We may have a couple pilots young enough to start over, but for 99% of the pilots, where can you go? You know it and we know it.

The only pilots leaving are the one we don’t need. We are only keeping individuals willing to extend on your B scale without benefits, but we grandfathered a few.

We are frugal and the pilots are very foolish and being self-serving is a real bonus. You must say, that is a prominent way to “Manage”. Just taking money out of your pockets.

Our shareholders adore us. We can “Manage” to buy Dragonair and increase our shares in Air China. Your 13th month with fund that purchase and you are bewildered if you think about profit sharing next year.

We Manage/Control and we get all the bonus, except for staff of course. As for “Sir”, not in your lifetime.

To be blunt, we don’t care if you are happy, as long as you show up for work and get the job done, we don’t really care.

The Management:ouch:

[jack red]

Methinks "The Management" is a line pilot winding up the pilot group. Good pep talk, get'm angry....go coach!

On the other hand, if he really is The Management............. I do see some light at the end of the tunnel.;)...........................for the pilot group.

[electricjetjock]

"The Management":D

Phew, glad you got that off your chest?:zzz:

It must hurt having a brain the size of a planet!

Most of us do this work because we enjoy it and we rarely have to meet you!:ok:

Keep thinking the way you do as it will surely come around to bite you. After all there is no doubt another "Prince / Princess" waiting to place something between your shoulder blades to get his or her "bonus".

Most of us could do not care less about the little "empire" you think you have. There is more to life than the god Mamon and you quite frankly need to get one - a life that is.

"You are more to be pitied than scolded":rolleyes:

[cpdude]

If "The Management" is really management, I suggest he remains inside during a thunderstorm. I think the mighty God's going to zap him!:eek:

[airamerica]

Dont work for CX but this sentence
''Just you wait until CX becomes more cozy with Air China. They have pilots doing the same job as CX, but getting paid a fraction of their salary with no benefits. Who do you think CX will want crewing there planes?'' cant hold true.

Given CX's training standards they certainly will not allow their planes plowing out of the sky unless the dudes jump through the hoops just like the rest.And if westerners find this hard whats left for the chinese?Air China pilots at CX,from logic different play ground haaa all together me recons haaaa.

[NO_JOY]

"The Management" is the only threads I read. The rest I scan...He's hilarious!!! Keep up the good work! His eyes are wide open. I won't be resigning from Cx, but I won't let them run my life. Hard to do, but possible!!! Peace out.

[Aussie]

This thread has turned into a **** fight!!!:ugh: :ugh:

Aussie

[tifters]

Well said management, i agree with all you said actually, why should you be generous to us especially as we are scrambling over ourselves to screw us!! Why would the company offer better +55 conditions when guys are sticking their hands up to fly freighters on C scale!!!! etc etc etc.
Lets remember the fact that the fuel surcharge revenue that you obtained throughout last year got pushed asside in our operating profit results, something that would have helped trigger the profit formula.
However, enjoy your time whilst it lasts. You will be wishing one day that you read that "best practices" hand book that you have gathering dust at the bottom of the draw!!!

[cpt hamna sheeda]

I get a bit worried reading all this. I have just passed my tests in HK and want to make the right decision to leave my current (well paying) job for a SO position in HK.
Could anyone please give me some info about the reason(s) why so many SO's want to leave. I cannot believe it is just the sim.
Any PM or email is much appreciated!
Thanks in advance

[SkyCruiser]

Mate,

If threatning and intimidation is your idea of training, then Cathay is for you.
Your only as good as you last sim ride in this company.:=


For what it's worth, I know of 3 SOs leaving, all for the same reason.....Had enough of the bollox.:ugh:

[Jett77]

I find it really sad to hear that from a so called "Manager" that they don't give a crap about their employees being happy. Is this the management training they gave you? I'm sure that's great news for the future pilots in CX! :sad: With that attitude,I'm sure the endless stream of cadets will never end and sure you'll get to keep them too :D

[jtr]

Two more bailed off the -400 this week according to Dicks Dribble today