View Full Version : RAF Doing so well at RIAT
Razor61
15th Jul 2006, 09:02
No show for the GR9 (its on a road near Kidlington)
No show for the two GR4's, apparently both are tits up at Lossie...
No show for the Sentinel, it's cancelled
No show for the Puma, it's cancelled
No show for the .........wait and see...there is bound to be others :}
Good old BBMF still chugging along !
But it's OK, there is no overstretch, operations are sustainable and we are managing the risk...........
Dundiggin'
15th Jul 2006, 14:34
I think if you were under the pressure we are under then you would have cancelled......and it's about to get verse.........:\
SASless
15th Jul 2006, 14:42
No show for the GR9 (its on a road near Kidlington)
No show for the two GR4's, apparently both are tits up at Lossie...
No show for the Sentinel, it's cancelled
No show for the Puma, it's cancelled
No show for the .........wait and see...there is bound to be others :}
Good old BBMF still chugging along !
Reminds one of why it was called the "Finest Generation"!:D
Motleycallsign
15th Jul 2006, 15:12
As I read this thread the Lancaster is circling overhead waiting to run in to Fairford. Beautiful view and sound!!!!!!
airborne_artist
15th Jul 2006, 16:06
What about the Europhoon? Had a view of it on the Berkshire Downs at about 1030 today.
Focks 2
15th Jul 2006, 16:18
Anyone know what happened to the Tonkas warp drive on Friday?
SaddamsLoveChild
15th Jul 2006, 16:48
Razor, have you any comprehension of how damd busy we are, its not just the aircrew but the engineers that are in tatters; the services divorce rate is rising and recruitment is down!. There is also the complete lack of money for anything other than a new glossy magazine and the cuts that Sqn Cdrs and Stn Cdr have had forced on them because successive CAS and Sec Def have not stood by us are really beginning to hurt. If i was given the choice of spending a weekend with Mrs SLC instead of accomm at South Cerney, Gateway or some p:mad:y B and B (and then try to claim it back on JPA), I would declare the aircraft U/S as well (I am not syaing that is whats happened but I'd be tempted). If the public dont want to see me in my uniform with sand still on my boots at airports, why should I put myself out for them.
Just hope Torpy and Jock can finally admit that we are overstretched to Sec Def but I doubt it. God it makes me mad - do more with less. We are Tony and your cuts are getting people killed.
So Razor pse desist we are doing our best but airshows are the lowest priority for Sqn Cdrs and rightly so.
juliet
15th Jul 2006, 16:54
chill out people. i imagine what you are arguing (slc for example) is exactly the point that razor is trying to make - we ARE overstretched as proven by the fact that we cant even get a few jets to a major airshow!
L J R
15th Jul 2006, 17:05
As RIAT charge a rediculous amount for me and my son to get to, I have no sympathy for them. I acknowledge the Benevolent fund gets a nice profit, but the excessive charges for serving RAF types is little short of Theft!
Boycott the show - I did!
movadinkampa747
15th Jul 2006, 17:08
Dont worry about it he is probably just some spotter peed off at having to pay 30 odd quid to get in and then shock horror the damned puma wasnt there...:*
You could always ask for your money back. I am sure trading standards could get it back for you as they were advertised as being there.............:(
Just for you
http://www.electric-image.co.uk/ukairshow/RIAT05/gr4-01.jpg
http://www.paulnann.com/images/pn_w6535.jpg
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/astor/images/Astor_10.jpg
http://www.ejvk.com/Airshows/Fairford_2005/215.jpg
Happy now?
SaddamsLoveChild
15th Jul 2006, 17:19
Yep, sorry guys am back in my box now but felt better getting it off my chest.
Large Car bomb and a 30 person kidnapping to try and work with, who said men cant multi-task.
;)
movadinkampa747
15th Jul 2006, 17:24
Yep, sorry guys am back in my box now but felt better getting it off my chest.
Large Car bomb and a 30 person kidnapping to try and work with, who said men cant multi-task.
;)
You are dealing with the 30 man Olympic team that has been kidnapped?
Colonal Mustard
15th Jul 2006, 17:43
Large Car bomb and a 30 person kidnapping to try and work with, who said men cant multi-task.
;)
And thats just london on a saturday night:rolleyes:
microlight AV8R
15th Jul 2006, 18:06
If the top brass give a flying f:mad: about the organisations they lead, perhaps now is the time to demonstrate it.
Cancel all airshow appearences by any type of aircraft which is currently on operational deployments. Insufficients reserves/finances. 'nuf said.
The press would love it ! It ought to spark off a serious amount of investigative journalism into the sorry state of our armed forces.
Then Tony Bliar has a choice:
a) Provide sufficient kit, training & funding for his adventures east of Suez.
b) Wind his neck in & accept that we aren't that big any more.
SaddamsLoveChild
15th Jul 2006, 18:15
Mova, no just trying to work out how it happened. Then we can apply it to a swedish netball team and haaaaaaappy days! the nights are lonely here.
harrogate
15th Jul 2006, 18:55
chill out people. i imagine what you are arguing (slc for example) is exactly the point that razor is trying to make - we ARE overstretched as proven by the fact that we cant even get a few jets to a major airshow!
Razor is on your side guys.
He's simply making the point that for all the best will and intentions in the world, you're struggling to muster enough planes for a PR gig on our own turf, so how are you guys expected to handle a full blown conflict, let alone 2 or 3?
No disupte that if a choice had to be made about prioritising sending the aircraft to an airshow or to a theatre of conflict, then the conflict should obviously take precedent without question... but there weren't any Tonkas in Afghanistan last time I looked and the half dozen or so that we have in Iraq shouldn't be a major stretch for the fleet (well, maybe they are in reality!)
Fact is, the Tonks went tits up because of technical problems - nothing to do with them being needed to meet the requirements of a conflict. Yes, planes go tits up all the time and always have done and so this could well have been an unfortunately timed coincidence, but you can't blame people for raising an eyebrow. You guys pipe on about overstretch all the time. Razor's just highlighting the upshot of a current situation from the public's perception: you're struggling to 'deploy' some to Gloucestershire to put on a pretty 5 minute display. I take an interest in these things and I'm a very 'lite' enthusiast to say the least (I'll pull over and have a 5 minute look if I'm passing a base), but the fact is I know about this issue and I'm a bona fide member of Joe Public. I'm bothered by it and I think the staffing and funding of UK armed forces is an issue that's starting to become the butt of jokes in circles beyond those moved in by you 'insiders'.
Considering what we're getting into as a nation (courtesy of Tony), we're not even a good force on paper any more - and we're a far better prospect on paper than we are in reality.
I have the fear.
Enemies: Right, anyone fancy a war?
Blair: I'll take 2!
Saintsman
15th Jul 2006, 19:24
As RIAT charge a rediculous amount for me and my son to get to, I have no sympathy for them. I acknowledge the Benevolent fund gets a nice profit, but the excessive charges for serving RAF types is little short of Theft!
Boycott the show - I did!
OK, servicemen should get in for free - no arguement. But excessively priced? well maybe not. Kids go free anyway and parking is also free.
£30 (price in advance) is the average price at a Premiership football match and about the same price as seeing a show at the theatre or a concert.
For your £30 you get a whole days entertainment, which is more than you can say about most things. Put it in perspective and it isn't so expensive.
NutLoose
15th Jul 2006, 19:44
As I read this thread the Lancaster is circling overhead waiting to run in to Fairford. Beautiful view and sound!!!!!!
I heard it had been diverted to Afganistan as a stopgap measure until the Astors comes into service :p
Carbide Finger
15th Jul 2006, 19:46
I got a nice view of a Sentinel going over Whitchurch @ 1000ft on Friday afternoon
Just returned home from taking my lad to RIAT. In the static park there were just twenty RAF ac (not including QinetiQ and the Griffin/Firefly) FIVE OF WHICH WERE VGS AC.
I suppose gliders did make a very important contribution to the brave lads' victory in WWII.
However, where does it leave us in the Third World rankings?
The Helpful Stacker
15th Jul 2006, 19:56
Just returned home from taking my lad to RIAT. In the static park there were just twenty RAF ac (not including QinetiQ and the Griffin/Firefly) FIVE OF WHICH WERE VGS AC.
I suppose gliders did make a very important contribution to the brave lads' victory in WWII.
However, where does it leave us in the Third World rankings?
'Just' 20 a/c (ok 15 proper ones).
Just how many different a/c types do you think the RAF has these days? 15 a/c would probably be just about one of each.
Go on someone (I cant be ar$ed) count them up. If you count the J & K, there are 5 types between Brize and Lyneham that were poorly represented.
BEagle
15th Jul 2006, 20:05
15....at the biggest airshow in the country.:(
50 years ago, at just one small AFS in Somerset, the 'At Home' static display consisted of a Vampire 5, Vampire 11, Venom, Prentice, Meteor VII, Lincoln, Canberra, Varsity, Provost, Harvard, Balliol, Chipmunk, Anson, Auster, Tempest, Sabre, Wyvern, S51 and Meteor NF XI...........
BEagle
15th Jul 2006, 20:20
No - RAF Merryfield, 18th September 1954.
LateArmLive
15th Jul 2006, 20:32
I think it's a tad unrealistic to compare the RAF 50 years ago to what we serve in today. These days we only have 3 types of FJ in operational service, Hercs and C17 for tac transport etc, 2 types of tanker and 3 helicopters. That's not a lot really.
Whilst it's a shame we can't put on more of a show, as has been said before, operational commitment has to come first. Before we go slagging off the herc boys (just an example lads, don't flash!) for not bringing in half their fleet for a weekend's display, we should remember that most of the herc boys and girls are in unpleasant parts of the world right now and would probably give their years wages just to get home for a weekend on the lash at RIAT and a chance to see their loved ones.
It's a shame, but indicative of the commitments and lack of resources we are facing at the moment. Those in charge should be ashamed.
Not wishing to be accused of 'biting' but my pointing out the types at Brize and Lyneham was not intended to be a dig at the RAF AT; it was just a quick example of how wide of the mark the HelpfulStacker was.
movadinkampa747 - I am more than aware how busy the guys and girls are and, again, it was not really the coal face operators' fault that we were so poorly represented at RIAT was it ?
rej
PS. I am also sure that we currently have more than 3 FJ types in service.
LateArmLive
15th Jul 2006, 20:49
Rej.
Operational service.
LAL
I still question 3 as would, I'm sure, quite a few FJ chaps and chapesses.
dhurst
15th Jul 2006, 22:44
Is Team Merlin at RIAT this year? or are all the boys out in Iraq still? my Sisters Husband who is co pilot for Team Merlin is on his honeymoon funny enough with my Sister, so he wont be.
movadinkampa747
16th Jul 2006, 00:08
You said that in the other RIAT thread.
dhurst
16th Jul 2006, 09:57
Did I? i did'nt think I submited that. My mistake sorry
Selfloading
16th Jul 2006, 10:26
£50 for a hotel £40 in petrol £60 to get in for me and Mrs selfloading, worth every penny, Thanks to all involved :ok:
The Helpful Stacker
16th Jul 2006, 10:35
Not wishing to be accused of 'biting' but my pointing out the types at Brize and Lyneham was not intended to be a dig at the RAF AT; it was just a quick example of how wide of the mark the HelpfulStacker was.
movadinkampa747 - I am more than aware how busy the guys and girls are and, again, it was not really the coal face operators' fault that we were so poorly represented at RIAT was it ?
rej
PS. I am also sure that we currently have more than 3 FJ types in service.
Alright, being the sad muppet I obviously am I counted the types up and I've got 30 separate types of a/c, this includes the (13) training types (Jaguar T2 etc) and also the the a/c the ATC play with.
Now going back to the 5 types that are between Bzn and Lyn, with current operations being so AT dependant does it not seem a little wise to keep a/c fulfilling that role rather than rocking up at RIAT so that some spotter can have a wet dream over what a new pod or bump that has appeared on a Timmy could be for? I reckon the Army in Iraq wouldn't be too happy if the kite they were supposed to be travelling back to the UK on went U/S at Bzn and there was no replacement as it was sat at Fairford with a coach load of anoraks crawling all over it.
SaddamsLoveChild
16th Jul 2006, 15:00
I and many like me are glad that there is so little AT presence at RIAT. Maybe someone has their priorities right for once in 2 Gp. It is bad enuff for the guys in the APOD, let alone the troops on patrol who even have the army top brass cutting thir days in theatre to just under 6 months so that they dont have as long R and R. To find out that the aircraft taking them home is at an airshow would be the final kick in the proverbials and their one week off has now become 2 days if they are lucky.
Trust me when I say I am glad that I am not on the gate, and hats off to the guys that are Mova.
dallas
16th Jul 2006, 15:17
Ditto.
I'm no killjoy and think it's great for untasked assets to represent the RAF in front of Joe Public, but not to the detriment of operations and exercises. Despite the widespread suspicion that senior officers are out of touch, I've yet to see anyone put airshow participation as higher priority than other jobs. This reassures me that perhaps someone is listening and choosing not to interfere.
Taxi.Idge
16th Jul 2006, 15:19
Does anyone have any video of the VC10 flypast on sat n sun at RIAT.
cavortingcheetah
16th Jul 2006, 18:57
:)
Flew in yesterday morning, Saturday and flew out last night.
We had an excellent day of it all and just wanted to thank all involved for ensuring that we enjoyed ourselves as much as we did.:)
I unfortunately couldn't make it to RIAT and am considering going tomorrow (Monday) to watch them all leave. Is it worth it and what time should I go? I've only ever been to the main even before so if anyone has any info that would be a great help!
GeeRam
17th Jul 2006, 08:32
Can’t believe anyone can have a beef with missing RAF kit because of ops, even if it does highlight the chronic overstretch in the services at the moment.
But a display slot rearrangement that certainly didn’t have an ops reason or even a tech reason left me a bit steaming.
I hadn’t been to RIAT for a few years but decided to make an effort with a few brownie point loosing rearrangements, for the sole reason of seeing the farewell of the Canberra and a chance to see a PR.9 strut its stuff for the last time. So, on Sat, in spite of leaving plenty of time to get there, we got caught up in a non-RIAT traffic jam the other side of Oxford which delayed me by 45 mins and meant missing the first 2-3 display slots. No problem I thought. Saw the PR.9 was on the programme late in the afternoon, only later to hear the commentator later saying the Canberra wasn’t on then as you’ve already seen it…..
What……….:mad: :mad:
It seems some wa*k*r decided it would be great fun to have it open the show when many could still be sitting in a traffic queue. Probably thought no one would be interested in some old thing that was about to be put out to grass.
Grrrrrr………..:ugh:
Not sure I’ll bother again.
Oh and yes that MIG29 was insane…….:eek:
jimgriff
17th Jul 2006, 10:04
RIAT was hoot!
Weather was hot and we got there early enough not to get caught in any traffic and drove straight in.
There seemed to be some bonzer hangover shared out amongst some of the particpants, but hey.....!:ok:
Displays good! The Chinook was doing things it really should NOT do!! Ace display. Prolly the best on the day (sun)
Reds were good as always, but there did seem to be a few times when they were not there. What I'm trying to say is that they had such good weather and venue it was such a big display area that they seemed to go missing at times.
Thanks to all the ground and aircrew who let me and Number one son (9 yrs old) into cockpits etc. The C130 crew (USAF) and B-1B crew who went out of their way to show us around was marvelous.:D
Much respect to the Sabb Grippen team who seemed to have the best "gizzits" of the show as number one son came away with 5or6 differentbits and pieces of givaways. Nice one Swedes...made a little boy very happy.
All in all a great day out for Dad and son who saw everything they wanted to.
Missed the announcement re the reds and Vickers funbus and first I knew about it was overhead..so no pics of that. Ho hum.
RAF Static...seemed to have one of each on display and all crew were pleased to talk to anyone. Well done lads:D and lassies:D
movadinkampa747
17th Jul 2006, 10:39
But a display slot rearrangement that certainly didn’t have an ops reason or even a tech reason left me a bit steaming.
You should complain to the organisers. Its not like it cost you £30 to get in only to miss the one thing you went to see. You have all my sympathies at missing the canberra..........http://www.cybergifs.com/faces/rotfl.gifhttp://www.cybergifs.com/faces/rotfl.gif
Oh BTW
The Royal International Air Tattoo
PO Box 1940
Fairford
Gloucestershire
GL7 4NA
United Kingdom
For your letter of complaint.
Razor61
17th Jul 2006, 11:15
I went there Sunday. The Chinook according to the PA did not display on Saturday due to being called up for deployment so the static example took it's place.
That particular display was the best Helicopter display i have seen in many years.
movadinkampa747
17th Jul 2006, 11:17
Thank god for that...........you are pleased for once................ Still damned annoying to see the other Chinnook fly off into the distance after paying £30 to see it.... I hope you had time to get its number for your book:ok:
Wycombe
17th Jul 2006, 11:47
Great stuff on the whole yesterday, esp:
- Swiss F18, very exciting high-energy display
- The Reds with the Funbus, very nice
- Chinook, as already mentioned. Merlin and Blue Eagles v. good aswell
- RAF Herc Tac Demo, looking sharp
- Mig29 OVT, ridiculous summersaulting and "hovering"
- Osprey - display was fairly benign, but interesting to see and hear it all the same
- Team Aguila and Spanish Typhoon, great to look at, but seemed to take them a lot of time/airspace to get the formation together. Their 7-ship formation landing is something to behold though :ok:
Adverse comment: The B1 was airborne for well over an hour, but we saw it for about 30 secs. Yes, there a few to beat for sheer power and noise, but this seems like a waste of AVTUR to me?
On the whole, well done RIAT. Yes, it certainly looked like overall a/c numbers were well down, but I think it's to their credit that they still put on a good show.
Razor61
17th Jul 2006, 12:26
Thank god for that...........you are pleased for once................ Still damned annoying to see the other Chinnook fly off into the distance after paying £30 to see it.... I hope you had time to get its number for your book:ok:
You are assuming i am a spotter, of which i am not. I have no such 'book' or do i write down 'numbers'.
I am not in the forces or do i pretend to be either. I am an enthusiast yes, but i certainly don't sit there and write down some poxy :mad: numbers that are stenciled on airframes!
I went to the airshow to enjoy the air display like all the others, if i have an opinion about the state of our forces, in particular the RAF then i am entitled to state it here. If you don't agree then thats fine, state it, it is a discussion afterall, but don't fanny around offending others. (I do consider the spotter assumption as offending). :(
Megaton
17th Jul 2006, 12:30
Not touchy then? ;) ;)
The Swinging Monkey
17th Jul 2006, 12:39
Can't disagree with razor one little bit - it was clear display of the RAF's shortfall and weakness of numbers.
Frankly, i thought the display was pretty poor compared to other RIATs. I have been assured by a good friend on the engineering team there, that they 160 aircraft down on last year - clearly that shows something!
Prices, as usual, were too high, and before everyone kicks off about the cost of the British Grand prix or the cost of a West End Show, I accept its still good value for money. Its just the constant annual hype in prices that hacks me off.
And yes, I know most will say 'Ah but it all goes to charity' well, even the most blind amongst us know that is NOT true. Who pays for the huge pi** up afterwards?
Anyway, back to Razors input: I think his comments are just and fair, and his one about the Chinook display is 100% on the button!
Kind regards to all
TSM
South Bound
17th Jul 2006, 12:42
Yep, but I am sure that the Brits in Beirut will be enjoy the Chinook display far more than the RIAT crowd...
I wonder how they got there so quick....
movadinkampa747
17th Jul 2006, 13:11
You are assuming i am a spotter, of which i am not. I have no such 'book' or do i write down 'numbers'.
I am not in the forces or do i pretend to be either. I am an enthusiast yes, but i certainly don't sit there and write down some poxy :mad: numbers that are stenciled on airframes!
I went to the airshow to enjoy the air display like all the others, if i have an opinion about the state of our forces, in particular the RAF then i am entitled to state it here. If you don't agree then thats fine, state it, it is a discussion afterall, but don't fanny around offending others. (I do consider the spotter assumption as offending). :(
Dont like spotters then? Or do you think they are weird? I am sorry if the RAF are too busy for you, maybe you should write to the MOD aswell as RIAT.:ok:
Megaton
17th Jul 2006, 13:24
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..... ;)
unfazed
17th Jul 2006, 14:50
Top tip if you think £30 per adult a bit OTT
Why not go to the numerous park and view farmers fields to the west of the airfield, refreshments, toilets easy in and out (and in again !)
£10 per car and however many adults, kids, beer and food that you can fit inside.
Oh and most of the aircraft are displaying right overhead !
Absolutely fantastic ! Followed by beers at the footie club campsite
Fun weekend, shame I missed the Mig !
movadinkampa747
17th Jul 2006, 14:52
Fun weekend, shame I missed the Mig !
But did you see the Canberra?
robin
17th Jul 2006, 15:04
Went for my first IAT and enjoyed it, although the regulars felt disappointed by:
the numbers of aircraft that went tech
the lack of the B52 display
the occasional 'visit' from the B1
the Typhoo displays seemed a bit 'samey'
My own little criticisms were
that the aircraft didn't always display along the full display line so we missed stuff
the commentaries were often more than a little naff (the SERCO one was dreadful and the USAF Historic Flight one - well, the less said about that, the better)
multis81
11th Aug 2006, 16:04
Don't suppose anybody has video footage of the Nimrod MR2 arriving for RIAT at Fairford this year?
anything would be appreciated.
Thanks
Went for my first IAT and enjoyed it, although the regulars felt disappointed by:
the Typhoo displays seemed a bit 'samey'
They had tea-making displays too? Glad I didn't go if that was the best the RAF could offer.
samuraimatt
11th Aug 2006, 16:58
They had tea-making displays too? Glad I didn't go if that was the best the RAF could offer.
Don't suppose anybody has video footage of the tea bags arriving for RIAT at Fairford this year?
anything would be appreciated.
Thanks
rolandpull
11th Aug 2006, 23:09
Does anyone have any video of the VC10 flypast on sat n sun at RIAT.
No, I dont unfortunately. There again I didnt get a shot of the three-ship VC10 formation launched for a dining in night on the Friday before the show either.
Did somebody mention overstretch for AT?:ouch:
D-IFF_ident
12th Aug 2006, 00:28
R and P,
The 3-ship was for the 40th Anniversary and was attended by a number of distinuished guests. Hats-off to the fellas who gave up their Firday night to fly the jets that were back on the road on Saturday.
The fly-past at RIAT was also to mark the 40th Anniversary. There was no static display because there were no aircraft available.
Your comments re overstretch exemplify your lack of understanding of the matter.
rolandpull
12th Aug 2006, 20:48
D-I.
Amazing coincidence then that there happened to be three jets and volunteer crews at Brize and available to fly for what was a well planned evening of sentiment and quoffing, all for the distinguished guests et al. AT tasking even managed to spare a herk to drop the Falcons as I recall. I suppose the ground engineers all gave up there Friday night as well?
Great party - did you go?
Brain Potter
12th Aug 2006, 23:48
RP,
Your tone suggests that you think that RIAT should have first call on aircraft for their static display and take precedence over any other Stn/Sqn events? RIAT had a VC10 flypast -did you also want a static or the 3-ship flypast? There is a significant difference between mounting a flypast which could be cancelled at any time if the aircraft were needed for tasking and losing an aircraft into a static park for 3 days. The 3-ship would have needed display approval for a public event and probably would have not looked that good anyway - as it would have had to go down the crowd line, unlike at the non-public event where it overflew the onlookers.
I'm told the party was great.
Vifferpilot
15th Aug 2006, 13:12
Don't suppose anybody has video footage of the Nimrod MR2 arriving for RIAT at Fairford this year?
anything would be appreciated.
Thanks
Hmmm, I'd like to see that too ;)
Jobza Guddun
15th Aug 2006, 18:59
.....and a very impressive arrival it was too. :D
Shame about the overstress(?):(
JG
BEagle
15th Aug 2006, 21:52
"I'm told the party was great."
It surely was! And the 3-ship flypast was truly excellent. Nice and tight and spot on time - the crews even made it to the dining room on time - as the cannon fired to announce their arrival confirmed.
Hats off too to the Gingers for getting 3 a/c generated for the occasion! Good to see so many of you at the dinner! I guess that's what the bleaters meant by 'distinguished guests'? Yes, there was the odd Air Rank - but no-one really cared as it was the FunBus Fortieth which really mattered!