Loadmaster

[freerideroj2]

does anyone do a UK based loadmaster course......

[Sainty43]

Hi freerideroj2!

Not that I know of (could be wrong though)

I'm currently joining the RAF as a loadmaster! It's one way to do it!

Sainty43

[wideloader]

you will find that most civil airlines will not employ
ex RAF loadmasters as it tends to be the movers that do the loading of the miltary aircraft also they tend to be full of there own self importance

also you will not find many airlines that will provide a loadmaster course

[CR2]

Why on earth would an airline run a freelance Loadmaster course? Get yourself employed an then express a wish to get involved.

We at Cargolux have often been asked to run such courses - good money too. We always say "NO!". There is no way that we'd share our little tricks & hard learned experience with another airline. Why would we shoot ourselves in the foot for a few Dollars?

If you would get a job with us, I'd willingly give you 17 years of B747F experience. Some of my colleagues have double that. We however wouldn't sell it for anything...

I suspect other ailrines are similar in their thinking.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

"you will find that most civil airlines will not employ ex RAF loadmasters as it tends to be the movers that do the loading of the miltary aircraft also they tend to be full of there own self importance"

The only reason, correction, one reason the RAF employ Loadmasters is as part of a constituted crew for the A/C type they fly on, to perform in flight dities and assist with in flight emergancies iaw Flight Referance Cards.....the other reason is that, in general RAF Movers could'nt load a bag of spuds without either putting the bag in the wrong place, crushing it or simply driving the forklift used to load it into the airframe yadda yadda.........so guess our self importance is fairly justified:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Echo 5]

Well spoken up Wilts.
BTW..........wasn't it on this very Forum that the Movers v Loadies Thread was conceived a couple of years ago. That was fun was it not. . ;)

[Shuperstar Loadie]

Well sorry to burst your bubble but the ex crab air loadies that we employed at Channex couldnt cope with the fact that they didnt get days to load plan an aircraft or that they had to join in with the actual loading of the freight.

Maybe we just got a couple of bad 'uns but they were bad!

Guess the best loadies come straight in with no former training and were trained from scratch by civilian loadies that knew what they were on about from experience!

Last crab air loadie I saw was dangling out the back of a herc posing but had a right sense of humour failure when we showed him the end of his safety strap in our hands! Dont throw horror bags at squaddies!!!!:ok:

[samuraimatt]

Shuperstar.

Do civvy Loadmasters have to abide by CAA Crew duty hours?
Do they always fly with the load?
Do they have to do the IATA Carriage Of Dangerous Goods By Air course?
Who regulates them within the company?
Do they earn flight pay like the pilots?
Sorry one more question. How much on average does a civvy loady earn?

Sorry for all the questions. Just interested. I am thinking of joing the RAF as a Movements operator amongst other things and I am looking at what I could do when I leave. Nothing like planning ahead:eek:

Thankyou.

[freerideroj2]

Cheers you guys, i`ll bear some of that rabble in mind.....just looking at poss career change and something like this has always been an interest!

[samuraimatt]

Well I have been doing some digging about and it would appear they get from £35000 to £54500 per year. Can that be right? Why would you want to get involved in actually loading the aeroplane? Surely thats a manual job for the lower ranks.
I have looked into becoming a WSop this week, but it would appear there are no guarantees that you could go straight to Loadmaster. Its something to consider though as the Civvy Loadmasters have to do all the work it would appear.

Anybody any thoughts on that? What do you do dyson hoover man? Are you a manual worker loading aeroplanes? What do you do Echo 5?:)

[Echo 5]

?????????????? Is there a bit of " thread cleansing " going on ? It would appear that two posts have disappeared. :ugh:

[CR2]

Correct. Take heed.

[Echo 5]

As far as I recall there was no more than a bit of mild banter going on. A short post explaining why two of the posts from ABIW and myself were deleted would have been no more than a common courtesy.

[Blakey875]

Oh What's going on here? What have I missed? Was ABIW using his earnings as a comfort blanket again?
Oodles of Civilian Loadmasters are ex-Movements Tradesmen. Why because they know how to load the aircraft and get it back off and moreso how to do it when the item is a 9ton bag of crap and all you have is a broken sack truck! I spent years in the RAF trying to load freight which was correctly prepared in acc/w IATA regs, RAF regs et al and still the RAF Loadie was attemting to ditch on a whim! They never understand that payload is profit!
Mind you they are good at Catering and have a wealth of experience on cheesecakes... No, with the one exception of a really nice guy ex-LM now on 124s I wouldn't give them the time of day. lb for £ a Mover is better... Oh and he earned his rank!

[Echo 5]

Blakey875

I responded to one of ABIW's " I earn £49k posts " to which he may or may not have replied. Someone however has taken offence and blitzed at least two posts.:confused:

[dionysius]

RAF Loadies have everything done for them by other agencies :

1. Loading - Movers
2. Role fit - Role eqpt
3. Para - PJI's
4. Ariel Drop - 47 AD

The only thing he has to do is turn up 1.5 hrs before chox, countersign the trim, have a quick look at the load, and most importantly " put the kettle on "

:rolleyes: ;)

Blakey, got to agree with you PS is a cut above the others.

[samuraimatt]

Hello again. You never said what you do echo 5 nor you dionysuisusisus. Do the RAF Loadmasters do any civillian accredited courses? Like Dangerous air cargo courses or are they trained in house? What traing do Movements operators recieve on dangerous goods, and by whom? Would it be better to put movers as loadmasters on RAF aircraft if they load it and do the paperwork? Were you an ALM Blakey? Thankyou

[Echo 5]

You never said what you do echo 5...... Well, I sit on the fence and annoy my mate ABIW

Do the RAF Loadmasters do any civillian accredited courses? Like Dangerous air cargo courses or are they trained in house?...... ABIW may well answer that when he gets back from Norway tonight.

What traing do Movements operators recieve on dangerous goods, and by whom?.....They are trained In House I believe at their very own training school. But I could be wrong.

Would it be better to put movers as loadmasters on RAF aircraft if they load it and do the paperwork?..............Oh dear. I don't think we want to open up that can of worms.

Were you an ALM Blakey?.......... Blakey has now gone ballistic and may well answer you when he returns to mother earth.

[samuraimatt]

Hello again. How do you know abiw is in Norway? Do you know him? Sorry if my questions seem a little intrusive but I am just trying to get things straight in my head before i commit to a career in the RAF. Why do you think it would open a can of worms about using Movements operators on RAF Aircraft. Are they not better trained in doing loading type stuff and moving freight around the world or is it because ALM's are employed on helicopters and Search and rescue aswell? Is it possible to become an Officer Movements operator? I see your profile says you are an ex muppet? Is that because you used to look like one of them and were called that by other people? Thankyou again.

[Blakey875]

Samurai

No I am not an ALM or AQM or WSOPs as they call them these days. I was in Movements and spent my life working in the UK and overseas selecting and preparing loads and putting them on and off a multitude of aircraft. I also spent many years flying in the back of frieghters travelling all round the world to pick up loads and deliver them worldwide. The RAF Loadmaster travels in the back with nus but leaves with the rest of the crew on arrival to work out his allowances for the night and menus for the morning!

ALMs do in-house DAC training. All Movers now do a CAA acredited Course in both handling and packing DAC and have to requalify every one or two years.

Putting Movers on aircraft as Loadies - Yes a bucket of worms, but a lot of Movers still go for Aircrew and normally do good at it.

I have several mates (ex-Movers) who still fly in the Civil world as Loadmasters and was asked if I was interested myself on finishing with RAF at 55 but am too used to home comforts now and don't fancy the hike to the Airports from the West Country.

[Echo 5]

samuraimatt

Hello again. How do you know abiw is in Norway? .....Cos he said so this morning on another thread.

Do you know him?.......Not in the Biblical sense.

Why do you think it would open a can of worms about using Movements operators on RAF Aircraft. Are they not better trained in doing loading type stuff and moving freight around the world.............Do a search for a thread called Movers v Loadies which was quite popular a year or so ago

I see your profile says you are an ex muppet?......Muppet is a term of endearment used mainly by aircrew when referring to Movers. Some would say that I probably look like one of them.:ok:

PS: How's your application going for the RAFP ?

[dionysius]

Methinks that Samuraimatt is a windup merchant on a fishing trip, hoping to hook ABIW and start him on a crusade against movers again :=

:rolleyes: ;)

Oh Smuraimatt, I am a civvy Loadmaster, and work for a living

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Blakey, it's not a comfort blaket but I do need a wallet the size of a pillow:p

"ALMs do in-house DAC training. All Movers now do a CAA acredited Course in both handling and packing DAC and have to requalify every one or two years"

Keep your ears to the ground on this one my luggage crushing chum:E

"Oh and he earned his rank!"

Did 15 years as a techie, did GST and TMT as both Cpl and Sgt BEFORE going ALM and trust me the folks who have the mental and physical strength to complete ITC have EARNED their rank:ok: and I suspect from the vitriol of your posts you realised at an early stage you had neither of those character traits:=

Dino..........your point is what:ugh: Why have a dog and bark yourself I say:p

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Echo 5]

Methinks that Samuraimatt is a windup merchant on a fishing trip, hoping to hook ABIW and start him on a crusade against movers again :=
:rolleyes: ;)
Oh Smuraimatt, I am a civvy Loadmaster, and work for a living
It did cross my mind that Samuraimatt could be a journo.:=

[samuraimatt]

It did cross my mind that Samuraimatt could be a journo.:=

Oh darn it you caught me out there.............. Yes I am a journalist. I work for the Daily Telegraph and I am doing an article on RAF Vs Civvy Loadmasters and wether or not the RAF should just put movers on the aircraft and save money.:ugh:

Sorry echo5 I am not sure that would make the front page ahead of the Isreali conflict. Just asking a few questions that no one seems able to answer.

Do civvy Loadmasters have to abide by CAA Crew duty hours?
Do they always fly with the load?
Do they have to do the IATA Carriage Of Dangerous Goods By Air course?
Who regulates them within the company?
Do they earn flight pay like the pilots?

dionysius are you ex RAF? Were you a movements operator?

[dionysius]

Samuraimatt

1.Unfortunately LM's are not restricted by CAA duty hours, however most companies are sensible with their tasking.

2.Very few LM 's fly with the a/c these days as most scheduled cargo operators utilise an agent at route stations.

3.Yes we have to attend the IATA DAC course and requalify bi-annually.

4. The chief Loadmaster or Flt ops Manager.

5. No just per diems (in my case anyway)

Yes I am ex RAF.

Hope you catch something soon :hmm:

Abiw , how long have you been on hercs ? as I may know you ;) :ok:

[samuraimatt]

Samuraimatt

Hope you catch something soon :hmm:



What do you mean by that? All I did was ask a few simple questions. But thanks for your answers anyway.
If very few LM fly on the aircraft then surely that makes them Movers or loading staff. What type of aircraft do you fly in? How many hours do you fly per year?

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Dino,
Only been at Lyneham since 97, did 2 years on LXX then moved to the mighty J model, did 10 years on Puma's prior to that.

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Echo 5]

Wilts,
Sorry about the late reply but...............

" the folks who have the mental and physical strength to complete ITC have EARNED their rank and I suspect from the vitriol of your posts you realised at an early stage you had neither of those character traits ".

If you knew Blakey, and you probably do but don't know it, then you would realise that the above statement does not apply in his case.

Have a nice day. :ok:

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Sorry Echo but anyone who witters so consistantly and so petulantly about ALM's in the manner Blakey does will always get short shrift from me. Having never been NCA he is hardly best placed to comment on whether they earned their spurs or not, just sounds like the usual jealousy to me:ugh:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Echo 5]

Wilts et al,

There I was sitting quietly supping a glass of Chilean white ( Duty Paid ) when
.....Bang !!........and I end up here.

Methinks that Moderator on Freight Dogs doesn't like us for some reason.

[Muppet Show]

Would it be better to put movers as loadmasters on RAF aircraft if they load it and do the paperwork?..............Oh dear. I don't think we want to open up that can of worms.


Not so fast! The Canadians have been doing this for years. Take one SNCO Mov and teach him the ac-specific safety and crew procedures. Test him. Release onto an AT Sqn for several years as an ALM before eventually returning to the movs fold. It's fairly sensible but very SNCO intensive, especially for a small TG, like Mov Ops, to maintain. It's far easier for us to train additional SNCOs for the specific ALM role.

Not trying to reignite the tiresome Mov v ALM thread, just enlightening!

[Muppet Show]

Mov NCOs are trained IATA DG by air and have been for many years. As for who's more qualified - irrelevant. The 2 jobs have different roles and by having ALMs trained as well, we have an additional person who can check. Additional checks = safer aircraft.

Movers do not work for ALMs. Again, different roles. The mover works for his team leader (mover) and prepares the ac (loading, paperwork etc). The ALM is responsible for the load in flight and will accept it from the movers.

Certain jobs need NCO rank to provide authority, ALM is one. He / she must have the authority to control his / her passengers.

Clear?

[woptb]

Few airlines seem to be employing load masters in a flying role,but having seen many cock ups caused by a mis-load,this is a cause for concern. The only load sheets I see these days are all computer generated & the closest thing seen about the ramp (to a loadie) is the dispatcher/load team supervisor. Load masters really come into their own when your on an Ad Hoc. As well as load sheet & supervision they virtually ALL are barking & provide good value when on the lash.

[Now a 'J' Bloke!!]

Surely they have the full authority of the Captain to deal with passengers as they see fit.


As written in the JSP 327...or whatever it is this week....

More LAter;
'J' Bloke!!:cool:

[Echo 5]

Muppet Show,
This " ..............Oh dear. I don't think we want to open up that can of worms." was attributable to me in answer to a question.It was posted in order to diffuse any sh!t kicking contest that may develop cos it's all been said before and I for one don't want to get into that again. Much better to have some good natured banter.
BTW............ABIW'S pillow aint that big. :)

[Now a 'J' Bloke!!]

BTW............ABIW'S pillow aint that big. :)

It's a big comfort blanket!!

More LAter;
'J' Bloke!!