How did you get to that right hand seat?

[Sean H]

Hi,
I would like to hear stories and how people went about getting that right hand seat? like what schools they went to,how much it cost, getting your first job,etc.
Thanks for the replys guys. :ok:

[captwannabe]

Who'll be the first "modest" person to post their life story here? ;)

[babyboeing400]

well here goes..
i applied for a SE asia major airline when i was 19 for their ab-initio cadet pilot programme..got in..trained for approx. 14 months in ab-initio(CPL/IR with fATPL)..another 5-6 more months for the B734 type conversion course(simulator training ,line training etc)..and now here i am :)

[Jelly Doughnut]

CPL/IR/ME in South Africa at 43 Air School.
2 years/1900 hours flying King Air 200 for UN around Africa.
Studied JAR exams through Bristol groundschool.
8 months/300 hours flying 737-200 around West Africa.
12 months/750 hours 737-300/700 for easyJet.
18 months/1050+ hours 737-300/400/500 for BA.
Total time around 4200 hours, 7 years since starting PPL :O

[captwannabe]

What job title did the UN give you? Who did you fly the 732 around West Africa for?

Cheers

[Jelly Doughnut]

King Air company was called Balmoral, contracted to UN for pax ops... 732 for Interair/Aero Africa.

[captwannabe]

Have you got any weblinks for the above? Do you need to be fluent in French to work for Interair? I'm off to the African Aviation forums.

[Sphinx]

captwannabe - i think to post how / when you got your RHS job is not boastful. It helps and gives hope to others that are in the position you were a few years ago. So call me "modest" if you like but....

PPL while working 05/00 to 07/01

ATPL exams through Bristol, 01/02 to 06/02 - the best money I spent on any course!!

Modular full-time courses, Cabair Bournemouth 07/02 to 11/02 to complete CPL and IR.

MCC - through Cabair Bournemouth on Tristar, 02/03

First commercial job with TP operator 05/03

First jet job 04/05

Total borrowed, £40,000

Was it worth it - yes. I like going to work and I could never say that in my previous jobs. How did I get my first job - Persistance, hundreds of CV's and PERSISTANCE.

Good luck.

[captwannabe]

Sphinx,

I was only joking! I know you won't get a job if you have a huge ego, especially if it involves sitting next to someone in a confined space for the best part of a day. It's really helpful to hear particlarly about modular students getting to the RHS.

Congrats :ok:

[newbie008]

what sort of salaries are most of you on?? Not sure if the websites give an accurate reflection..

[jollypilot]

www.ppjn.com is pretty spot on as far as the salaries are concerned...

[Toastal]

I'm gonna keep this one short and sweet but at the same time, exceptionally vague!!

Could peps pleease post their experiences of swimming/drowning, whether current or otherwise (no matter which airline).

Regards,

T:suspect:

[BaronBlue]

Can't quite get my head around the fact that airlines don't have to advertise their vacancies and some airlines are only recruiting people with personal reccommendations from some schools e.g. Oxford / Jerez.... don't they leave themselves open to discrimination laws (don't know much about it but a friend came across this statement that got me thinking).

OC Code of Practice confirmed that it was possible that a recruitment exercise conducted by word of mouth, by personal recommendation or by other informal recruitment method would constitute unlawful indirect sex discrimination. The Court said that if the arrangements made for the purpose of determining who should be offered employment or promotion involve the application of a requirement or condition to an applicant that he or she should be personally recommended by a member of the existing workforce, that may, depending on all the facts, be indirect sex discrimination.

[potkettleblack]

They probably are sailing close to the wind but then who is going to bother suing them? Is any wannabee daft enough to take legal action against an airline for discrimination and then expect another carrier to take them on after they have a history of litigation? And lets not even discuss what the costs would amount to.

Whichever quango polices the discrimination laws probably has much better industries to get its teeth stuck into to keep themselves busy in the courts for years without delving into aviation.

[mightymouse111]

Firstly do not think it is going to be easy, getting your first job will prove the most difficult thing you have done to date. From my experiences there are many ways to get into the right hand seat and luck/right time right place played a major part in my own.

Most people I know got jobs by either being recommended by one of the larger flying schools, knowing someone in an airline (this is where networking is helpful and I accept that you need that first connection, but you need to work at this), paying for a type rating, paying for a TR and hours on type, working as an instructor (not for too long as airlines tend not to like instructors with loads of hours) and finally persistance and knowing whats going on, who to ring and when.

Basically there are many routes into the business, every pilot will have a different story of how they got that first step on the ladder, the trick is to give yourself the best chance, by undergoing the best training etc and trying not to give them a reason to put your cv in the 'to bin' pile. All the airlines tend to look for different qualities, i.e some prefer Oxford graduates, some prefer instructors, some only integrated etc etc.Whatever you do you need to stand out from every other CV that gets sent there, those that have the ability to do this have a better chance of a job!

Finally once you have that foot in the door (interview etc) make sure that you don't blow it! (not a nice feeling!)

Good luck, you will need it (but worthwhile).

[Mooney12]

working as an instructor (not for too long as airlines tend not to like instructors with loads of hours)

That's interesting......why?

[mightymouse111]

I'm not too sure. I think its for a few reasons. They don't want people who have a small plane approach ingrained in them, if they have accumulated 1500+ hours then why has no one recruited them etc.
I know that when I researched this area, I spoke with loads of pilots in charge of recruiting and they nearly all came back with the same point. Ideally no more than about 1000hours instructing.
But I think this demonstrates my point, that all airlines are different and the trick is to highlight the strengths that are particular to that specific airline.

Good luck

[scroggs]

MM you are absolutely right. Airlines are not comfortable with new hires having too much of a light-aircraft background, or who have the instructor mentality too much ingrained. It can take too long to erase the old and replace with the new program (if you'll excuse the computer analogy), and time is something airlines don't have to any great degree. If they're recruiting, it's because the job needed filling yesterday!

It might seem unfair, but the jobs always go to those who have the right qualifications and are in contact on the day the job becomes available. 24 hours earlier or later and you're out of contention. Have the wrong CV and you miss out. That said, what doesn't suit one airline (or Chief Pilot) may be ideal for another. You just can't get past the fact that there's a lot of luck involved - as there is in any desirable career.

Scroggs

[boogie-nicey]

Scroggs: Does that relate to the guys who's just coming out of the GA world? What about further up the scale someone with some time on type(s) would their details be archived for retrieval at a latter date or would they too need to hit the iron while it's hot?

[scroggs]

A pilot who is current, rated and has significant experience on a useful type may have his or her CV kept on file at some companies. Many, however, now use online application forms which are often tied to a specific recruiting drive. Once the required number of new hires has been found, it's quite likely that all unsuccessful applications are ditched (data protection comes into this, but I'm not certain of the full ramifications) and no records kept.

There are some companies where CVs are kept on file, but that practice is decreasing as it is a fairly inefficient way of finding new people. It's much easier to get people to contact you than it is chasing around hoping old contact details are still valid. After all, there are more pilots than jobs, even now (and especially at your level); why keep redundant paper? One ad on Pprune, or in Flight, and companies are inundated with current, rated applicants. It's a no-brainer really!

So, yes: luck is still needed for those who have a TR and few hours.

Scroggs

[boogie-nicey]

cool ..... :)

[machlimter99]

Great one!!! Now I have built a huge number of instructional hours - in excess of 1700 hrs, thinking im now slightly more employable, its actually damaged my job prospects. :uhoh: you cant win!

[St Hilary]

PPL in 1991 , flew as a hobby whilst working for a large UK insurance company sat in an office 9-5 etc..... yawn
Got bored so ......
CPL NAV & Techs Groundschool Corrospondence Course 1998 ( PPSC Bournemouth RIP)
BCPL 1999 (Aeros Gloucester)
FI Rating at Local Flying Club and UK ATPL Groundschool 4 Week Course at Brstol GS !! in 2000
IR at Bristol Flying Centre & MCC at Oxford in 2001
Full time FI Instructing 2001 - 2003 (1300 hrs instructing) CPL Issued after 700 hours.
FO Turboprop for UK Regional Operator 11/03 to 04/05 (got the job through a recomendation from an old instructor friend who worked for said airline), then flew as a Capt for said airline until 12/05.
Airbus SFO for Low cost carrier since 02/06
Total time 3200 hrs , Total Cost £35000 ish
Got there eventually in a very roundabout and time consuming manner !!! ;)
My only tip would be Never underestimate the power of networking :)