North Sea access ...

[FullyFlapped]

Take a look at any old (VFR) charts of the North Sea, say in a straight line between Hull and Denmark. You'll notice that huge parts of this track take you through restricted-looking areas, with legends such as "Southern MDA", "Nordsoe 7", "Fanoe-TSA" etc etc, along with others shown as refuelling areas etc. Some of these are too high to bother with, but most have interferingly lower limits ! :)
If I wanted to take a trip from Hull to Denmark (for example), then (a) can these areas be routed through, (b) is permission required, and (c) if so, where would I get it ?
FF :ok:

[FlyingForFun]

No idea of the answer... but if you continue to get the very low number of replies you've had so far (and if these areas are in UK airspace - sorry, I don't have the chart to hand to check this), the answer will be somewhere in the AIP, most of which is available free on the AIS website, and the rest of which will almost certainly be somewhere in your local flying club.

FFF
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[Background Noise]

Register with the UK AIS (http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/login.jsp) and you can get free access to the Civil AIP (En Route Sect 5) which will tell you all about the danger areas, restricted areas etc. Southern MDA is a mil training area and is activated as required. Base level is FL50 so you could go below - or you would have to get a service from, I guess, London Mil or Civ.

The others sound foreign - I guess you would have to find their AIPs.

[PPRuNe Radar]

Managed Danger Areas in the UK sector are activated by NOTAM. As mentioned, the base is not down to the surface so transit below is a possibility. Bear in mind that you might still encounter traffic below the area, although the high energy manouvreing is all likely to be within the actual MDA itself.

If they are active, you won't get a crossing service or permission to cross through them, except in an emergency situation.

Quite often the military will release the airspace back if they finish early, but won't necessarily put out a NOTAM saying so. Scottish or London FIS will be able to provide an up to date picture on the Danger Area status if you want to take a chance on the fast jets having headed home for tea and medals early.

[twizzle]

A useful chart is the Jeppsen 1&2 E(lo). We flew back from Aarhus direct Detop (Fir Bdy) direct Norwich after negotating with London. FL130 VFR. I expect you could fly lower.

[Pilot-H]

Bear in mid that if you are required to route at low level below some of these danger areas, while out in the North Sea, you will lose contact with ATC and may have to relay via commercial traffic.

[London Mil]

Quite often the military will release the airspace back if they finish early, but won't necessarily put out a NOTAM saying so. Scottish or London FIS will be able to provide an up to date picture on the Danger Area status if you want to take a chance on the fast jets having headed home for tea and medals early.

The military will hand these back. It is the NATS managed AMC which decides whether the change in status is notified. Quite rationally, this decision is based upon whether anything can be gained by notifying. m there is little point raising a NOTAM saying that an activity has finished an hour early.

If they are active, you won't get a crossing service or permission to cross through them, except in an emergency situation.

Not entirely true. If the airspace is notified as active but the activity has cleared, no longer requires segregation or is handed back (as per above), you might get a clearance through from the agencies such as London Mil.

As mentioned, the base is not down to the surface so transit below is a possibility. Bear in mind that you might still encounter traffic below the area, although the high energy manouvreing is all likely to be within the actual MDA itself.

There is every possibility of high energy manouevring in the Class G airspace beneath the MDAs. The only activity you will definitely not encouter beneath the airspace is that which requires segregation. http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?categoryid=33&pagetype=65&applicationid=11&mode=detail&id=951

[IO540]

There is every possibility of high energy manouevring in the Class G airspace

Isn't that true for all of the UK Class G?

[FullyFlapped]

All very interesting, guys, thank you.

Two further questions. Can transit through these areas be negotiated with London/Scottish before the flight commences ? And can they negotiate on behalf of the Dutch/Danish/whoever in respect of transit through the non-UK areas ?

Thanks,

FF :ok:

[wombat13]

FF, at the risk of taking your thread off at a tangent (wouldn't be the first time.......), are you actually planning to fly this route? If so, in what?

I ask because I am thinking of a trip to Stockholm which is only up the road from your destination, but have ruled out going across the north sea as beyond my abilities.

My best guess at your latest question is no. Yes you will of course file a flight plan since you are going over several FIR's and that might smooth your path (they know you are coming), but transit negotiated in advance?? Don't think so.

In any event, let me have an answer to my questions if you will.

The Wombat

[FullyFlapped]

Wombat13 :

FF, at the risk of taking your thread off at a tangent (wouldn't be the first time.......), are you actually planning to fly this route? If so, in what?

Not sure how my answers can help you ? If you don't think you can do it, then does it matter what anyone else does? Stretching your envelope is one thing, but if you're not comfortable, then in most light aircraft it's a long time to sit feeling the buttons disappear off the seat ! :ooh:

However, for what it's worth, yes, I'm looking at a trip to Denmark in my 210. I've taken SEPs across the North Sea several times, but never through these particular zones, hence the questions ...

FF :ok:

[Odi]

For what it's worth, if you are transitting either the northern North Sea or the Southern North Sea, don't forget Aberdeen ATSU have offshore transmitters/receivers for provision of ATS to the offshore helicopters. These are designed to give low level R/T cover out over the North Sea.

Frequencies and sector maps are in the AIP.

[FullyFlapped]

Thanks Odi, I wasn't aware of that and it's really useful to know ! :D

Cheers,

FF :ok: