Fears of exodus over plan to cut RAF jobs

[mary_hinge]

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/huntingdon/2006/06/28/6dca36c9-e2ad-4c6e-8902-5bee6a0f2164.lpf
UNION bosses have warned of an exodus of up to 15,000 people from Huntingdonshire if MoD plans to axe jobs go ahead.
The Ministry of Defence is planning to axe thousands of jobs at RAF Wyton.
Prospect, which represents staff at the base, said the job losses would have a knock-on effect on local businesses and would hit the area hard coming after proposed job cuts at Hinchingbrooke and Papworth hospitals, possible staff reductions at merged emergency services and the closures of the Monks Wood research centre and the British Council office in Cambridge.
Prospect believes the MoD is planning to cut all the local Defence Logistics Organisation (DLO) staff, both civilian and military, from RAF Wyton, RAF Brampton and RAF Henlow to nil and to leave RAF Wyton by 2009-10.
Angela Powell, from the union, said this would affect up to 4,000 staff and although some would be transferred elsewhere a significant number of staff were likely to be made redundant.
She said: "This exodus could be potentially some 10,000-15,000 people, or more.
"A major concern for the area will be a reduction in disposable incomes and spending power, depreciation of property prices and consequential reductions in services across the region."
Prospect said the DLO had submitted a business case to ministers for approval without consulting staff, local communities and businesses.
It has launched a petition calling for jobs at the bases to be retained and is urging residents to write to their MP and military chiefs opposing the move.
Jonathan Djanogly, Huntingdon MP, said: "I remain of the same opinion that the level of consultation the MoD has had with staff has not been at an acceptable level."
He said proper consultations were necessary because staff, many of whom had worked for the MoD for a long time, were uncertain about their futures.
But Mr Djanogly said the district's job market was a good one and he felt it should be able to absorb people who were made redundant and those who did not want to transfer elsewhere.
He said he had not been told the MoD were not going to find another use for RAF Wyton, but if the base were to close it would be a "very sad moment" because of its close links to the area.

[LFFC]

MOD Website: DLO and DPA to merge in acquisition shake up (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/DefencePolicyAndBusiness/DloAndDpaToMergeInAcquisitionShakeUp.htm)

This probably has something to do with it! Announced by Strangely Browne this afternoon.

"Consistent with today’s announcement, and in order to help the new organisation to work as one, MoD is also announcing the collocation of elements of the DLO and DPA in the Bath Bristol area. This collocation will save around £200M over 25 years, money that can be reinvested in the front line."

"This decision involves the DLO reducing its presence at Andover and RAF Wyton and withdrawing from a number of other, smaller sites over the next five years."

[ProfessionalStudent]

Frankly, I think there's too much fat at Wyton anyway. When I was there, there were - get this - 26 Group Captains there. Can you believe it? I know it's a shame for those to be made redundant, but that's life (and yes, I have experienced it in my household).

[ZH875]

How many people work at RAF Wyton......









...About half of them:)

[ProfessionalStudent]

You're right. The bar at lunchtime was alwys full of civil servants drinking beer.:*

[NURSE]

does anyone know If we've past the 1 civil servant to 1 serviceman level?

[mbga9pgf]

Is it true some civil servants do a three or four day working week? Shocking if true, a typical example of waste we can ill-afford to have in our cash-strapped armed forces these days.

[South Bound]

Is it true some civil servants do a three or four day working week? .

Only the good ones...:E

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

I've had Grade Ds and E1s (EO and AO in oldspeak) working for me who've worked a 4 day week. The point is, though, is that they are only paid for the hours they work. Surprisingly, they have usually been more productive, than the full-timers.

Why there is so much surprise that the DPA and DLO are "downsizing" (ugh!) is itself a surprise. When the DLO formed, it must have been obvious that the only saving would be bums on seats and seats in buildings. Additionally, DPA could not possibly buy Whole Life Support without being integral with the support IPTs.

[jollygreenfunmachine]

This collocation will save around £200M over 25 years, money that can be reinvested in the front line."

Yeh right, i am sure it will be very wisely reinvested!

[Safeware]

So the Tornado IPT move of a few years ago from ABW to Wyt that caused a lot of hassle when the civil servants didn't want to move is coming around full circle then?

And what happens when the ones recruited in the Wyton area don't want to move? More pressure on the uniformed guys, more time spent building up a new knowledge base.

sw

[Chris Kebab]

Having recently left a ground tour where I was a line manager for some civil servants I really felt that by far the majority of them were good guys doing a good job in conditions that would never be tolerated in industry. The number that let the side down was probably easily balanced by the number of waster unifomed guys treading water and keeping their nose clean for three years. Those are the posts that need sweeping out.

They did take a lot of flak from the military guys but I wouldn't have worked for the pay they received. You have to bear in mind these are 37 hour a week civilians not military staff. I also find it a bit rich that many of the procurement issues that are blamed on the civil service come from IPTs headed up by military guys.

I think it's about time I left, defending civil servants? I seem to recall defending navigators as well in a thread not long ago!

[Vifferpilot]

.....and to leave RAF Wyton by 2009-10.....

.....thus allowing Marshalls of Cambridge to move in, selling up their valuable land at their current site? :rolleyes:

[Had Enough 77]

I went to Wyton to hold straight after IOT before starting EFT. I think the problem with the place is that some people work their bo*****s off while others play a hell of a lot of golf! The place is exceptionally top heavy and it appears to me it is a place that justifys a over-prortionate number of engineers in the RAF especially Wg Cdr and above. If they cut thes jobs it could release some money back to the front line,or more likely, it will just go to pay for more bl**dy asylum seekers! Although I don't know who i pissed off to be sent to Wyton ?:eek:

[Grimweasel]

Have you seen the new 2006 RAF Stratergy Paper??
It's on the Waddo AWC scrolling news on Intranent....
Interesting reading, with RAF Bases as of 2015. Still has Benson and Odiham on it and no Lyneham..so talk of the JHC hub at Lyn may be shelved??

No mention of Brampton / Wyton / Henlow either...just 20 MoB's and 6 Training bases.

Take a look.....

[Eckster]

The Tornado IPT is moving to Marham within the next 8 to 12 months. That's straight from the horses mouth as it were (A C/T i know has been posted there and is trying to keep hold of his quarter at Marham for when the IPT moves)

[vecvechookattack]

I have to agree that merging the DLO and the DPA can only be a good thing. But Id avoid slagging off civil servants. I have an E2 work for me...He works 9-5 Mon-Fri and thinks he is lucky to take home £14K PA.....Crikey

[Bluntend]

...Id avoid slagging off civil servants. I have an E2 work for me...He works 9-5 Mon-Fri and thinks he is lucky to take home £14K PA.....Crikey

Similar situation here - and due to the drastic thinning out of man power, many E grade civil servants now carry disproportionate amount of responsibility compared to the amount of pay they take home. Many are jumping ship and who can blame them? You can earn twice the wage at Asda without the worry that an entire fleet of ac could be grounded if you screw up.

Many civvies are worth their weight in gold (and some are pretty heavy too) but the way they are being treated by the MoD is disgraceful.

[FantomZorbin]

I worked with a Civil Servant chap who was excellent in his job and was paid a pittance ... he moved to the MoD because it was the best paid branch :sad: Lawd 'elp the rest then!!:(

BTW there was a rumour at 'The Pavillions' that the buildings were of a design that could be easily transformed to wharehousing.

[Mr C Hinecap]

The less chance I have of being sent to Lincs, Cambs & Norfolk the better. I applaud the closure of bases in dull places - the locals complain when we're there and complain when we might not be.
I'll start the 'RAF Take Back Chivenor' rumour now then shall I? :suspect:

[Skeleton]

Mr Hinecap, you may not be a lover of Lincolnshire, but the locals are a lot more forgiving than other places I could mention.
Jockland anyone? Forget giving the Falklands back. Lets give Haggisland away... Trouble is to who? :}

[South Bound]

Mr C

can we have Brawdy back as well please - love it there....

[Confucius]

If this is a wish list can we have Thorney Island back please?

[Oblique96]

FZ

Spotted a typo in your last - did you mean whorehousing?:)

[Confucius]

FZ

Spotted a typo in your last - did you mean whorehousing?:)

Was that Filton Block?

[Could be the last?]

It would appear that the current agenda, although not stated, is to force personnel out of FMQs and into private accm by providing poor housing. With this in mind, where is housing affordable in the uk?

Answer: RAF Lincs

So if they keep shutting these bases down.............:ugh:

Example: 4 Bed Detached:

Lincoln £250K
Bristol £350K
High Wycome £400k+

[modtinbasher]

The only reason that it has been found (profitable) to close Wyton and rid the place of a fantastic engineering/electronics base of knowledge is that a certain diminutive AVM decided that it would be better to invest a lot of money with BAe systems in returning Tornado and Harrier work back to front line stations to be carried out there under "partnering" arrangements conducted under "limited competitive tendering rules" with said BAe. The fact that St Athan was just at the planning stage for it's super hangar where it all could have been done (and much cheaper) when it all first kicked off was nobody's business. I watched the super hangar being built but was also aware of the fact that his vertically challenged self said that Saints would get future work over his dead body! Ask somebody (from the job) who has ever worked at Saints, held a reasonably high desk job at Wyton, and been inside BAe, and heard a lot of general hangar noises like wot you get at Saints, or did, as the case may be. I think not!! We are talking ghost town effects here at tax payer's expense. This (recent?) decision to close Wyton surprises me not, it's rumbled on for years whilst certain people get their ducks and directorships in a row. I remember a certain Mal Rif, a kind... sort of man, making his decision as Min of Def many years ago to sell off St Athan to the highest bidder and b****r the highly skilled workforce ranging from TG1 to TG5 AND civilian staff as well, in the space of, well a few hours. The fact that DARA came about was a last ditch effort to save face with the Welsh Mafia.....but there's another story!

[Safety_Helmut]

MTB, any bets on how long it will be until the diminutive AVM (with the silly 'tache, has he still got that ?) gets his directorship at BAE ?

S_H

[GlosMikeP]

Having recently left a ground tour where I was a line manager for some civil servants I really felt that by far the majority of them were good guys doing a good job in conditions that would never be tolerated in industry. The number that let the side down was probably easily balanced by the number of waster unifomed guys treading water and keeping their nose clean for three years. Those are the posts that need sweeping out.

They did take a lot of flak from the military guys but I wouldn't have worked for the pay they received. You have to bear in mind these are 37 hour a week civilians not military staff. I also find it a bit rich that many of the procurement issues that are blamed on the civil service come from IPTs headed up by military guys.

I think it's about time I left, defending civil servants? I seem to recall defending navigators as well in a thread not long ago!

Don't worry, you'll realise soon that you in fact have a balanced view after all. It took me a couple of years to adjust to the reality that it's the military mentality that actually causes more problems than it solves in IPTs. That's not a criticism of the people, in the main, but of the Services posting people out just as they get on top of the job. It's been that way for the 20+ years I've been in procurement, in and out of the RAF.:ugh:

[Blacksheep]

When I was there, there were - get this - 26 Group Captains there. Could it be that they have nowhere else to go?

[philrigger]

Blacksheep...

All the other Gp Capts must have been on gardening leave !

'We knew how to whinge but we kept it in the NAAFI bar.'

[philrigger]

Has a survey been carried out to see how many of the hundreds of 'Mobile Grades' of Civil Servant employed at Brampton/Wyton are prepared to make the move to Bristol/Bath ? Just because they are employed in a mobile grade does not mean that they would be willing to sell up and buy a house in/around Bristol/Bath. I know many who have stated thay they would leave the CS rather than move - Or is this a way of downsizing by default ?
Can the top feeders then state that there not enough people to do the jobs and so opt for contractorization ?
Are British Waste of Space standing in the wings ready to take on the contracts ? (And then sub-contract them to smaller, lower wage-paying companies).

- Or am I just a cynic ? :ooh:

'We knew how to whinge but we kept it in the NAAFI bar.'

[BellEndBob]

Not cynical at all. I have a mate who was high up in the IT side of sales for a major airline. They had to close a large sales office in the north of the country so he and a few other managers flew up to break the news (using other airlines so they would not be rumbled). They used 2 clever ploys. To the employees under 25 they offered a Club Class ticket to anywhere in the world with the promise of a career interview when they returned. They calculated that 60% plus would get to their destination and either stay or decide to move onto pastures new. They actually got over 80% from that. No redundancy/relocation etc.
To the older, more established family types they offered them transfers to the SE of England, knowing full well that the majority would not want to, or be able to afford to, move. Hence they 'resigned' of their own free will without any liabilty to the company.
He said, in the end, they only had to fork out for something like 15% of the total workforce.
The gaps in other areas at other locations were then filled by lower grades on lower packages. He said they saved a mint.
That's business for you. :rolleyes:

[modtinbasher]

MTB, any bets on how long it will be until the diminutive AVM (with the silly 'tache, has he still got that ?) gets his directorship at BAE ?

S_H


Is he still thrusting away then? And where I may ask?

[ScapegoatisaSolution]

Part of the relocation package for the mobile grade civil servants is for the MOD to fund the difference in price of their house if moving to a more expensive area. Nice way of moving up the property ladder.

[Impiger]

DLO and DPA merger?

I visited Oz in 2000 as a bag carrier to a very Top Neddy and we were briefed on their experience of merging DLO and DPA equivalents. They said it only worked for them because they were small and they couldn't recommend it as a way ahead for any sizeable defence organisation. Guess we've shrunk enough for it to become Plan A!

[modtinbasher]

Part of the relocation package for the mobile grade civil servants is for the MOD to fund the difference in price of their house if moving to a more expensive area. Nice way of moving up the property ladder.

Sounds good doesn't it? In reality maybe not so good though, there are criteria. For example, if you live in a 3 bed semi, you can't opt for a 4 bed detached and expect the taxpayer to pick up the bill. I've moved twice with the system. The first move meant a move to a higher priced area, so the same type of house cost more, ok, there is help, but you basically need a bigger mortgage. The "help" lasts for 5 years then it is abated 20% per year till you are on your own (with the larger mortgage that still has maybe 20 odd years to run). My second move was to a cheaper area, but with less time left I had to take on a larger mortgage. Because the new house cost less than the one I was leaving, then I was not eligible for the additional cost of the mortgage. On my last move I opted for the relocation package which provides a guaranteed sale price (GSP) in the event of your property not making what it's really worth. Indeed, the GSP that the authorities set can be considerably less than what one could get on the open market. Although the regs say you can market your house for 5% higher than the GSP, for the first three months, if someone makes an offer on the GSP, then the authorities sell it at that price, regardless! I personally lost about £9000 by doing this. When I questioned the clerk at Brampton why she had agreed the sale at the GSP, she remarked that "houses don't sell well in South Wales so we had to shift it". The person who made the remark admitted at a later date that she had never been to South Wales in her life. It's a funny old thing though, although the GSP is supposed to be a confidential matter between the vendor and the estate agent, the offer that was made at the GSP on my property, was made less than 4 hours after it had been put on the market!! Funny old thing! So, it's not all beer and skittles. The so called housing perk is about as unfunny as the so-called "gold plated pension" we keep reading that all civil servants get. From where I sit counting my loot each month, my remittance for 40 years service is not exactly gold plated, more like bronze I would have thought, but it's something I get for being underpaid as a Crown servant for most of my working life.

[arthurwellington]

It sounds harsh but my experience (not DLO/DPA) of D/E Grade civil servants makes me wonder why we bother. Apart from the odd exception they are more of a hinderance than a help. Great at Solitaire mind.

Nice people but mostly unmotivated and not really up for responsibility. Not surprising given the wage but I honestly believe you could retire all E Grades in Wiltshire with no adverse consequencies.

Apologies to the good one.

Arthur

[ScapegoatisaSolution]

Modtinbasher,
Never said it would give you a better house. A more expensive 3-bed semi in replacement for a cheaper 3-bed semi is still a move up the property ladder if the delta is funded by the MoD.
As for being an underpaid Crown servant for most of your working life, I applaud you but there is such a thing as choice. You were free at any time to leave and take a job in civvy street and earn more money but with greater risk. You decided not to.

[tornadohotas]

You're right. The bar at lunchtime was alwys full of civil servants drinking beer.:*
Prof Student - Somebody who has been one of those civil servants who were allegedly drinking in the bar at lunchtime in a previous incarnation would tell you that the bar was hardly big enough to contain the many said civil servants. Indeed, how would you know this fact unless you had been in the same bar!! Seriously though, I can only agree with Chris Kebab when he states that civil servants are paid quite poorly for what is often a resposible job. Not wanting to knock some of my service colleagues I would like to point out they could often be found in the gym (I know they were training to be steely-eyed trained killers) or playing golf. In my area certainly, there were civil servants in the office a long time after their service colleagues had 'clocked-off' for the day!! I feel better now!

[hunterxf382]

Mr C

can we have Brawdy back as well please - love it there....


I'll second that..... brings back fond memories every day...

Ok,where's the petition, I'll sign now :rolleyes: :D