Uniform at UK airports

[DESPERADO]

Having recently arrived back at BZN from somwhere sunny in company with a lot of tired but stoic troops from the various sandy wars, we were told by the unusually helpful mover over the PA that personnel were not to wear uniform at UK airports as the operators had 'agreed a policy' and we would be removed from the premises (presumably forcibly if necessary).
I must admit, I found myself a little outraged that guys who are coming back from theatre (especially many of the Army guys who have put up with a lot and are hero's in my mind) should be treated in this way if they need to travel through a UK airport. Before I start writing to my MP is there anyone out there, movers, Mil Pol, anyone else who knows the background to this 'policy'? Has it come down from the govt? Or is this just a company policy - if so is it legal and discriminatory?
If there is a good reason then fair enough - neck wound in - but I can't think what that could be other than some kind of PC embarassment (which is not a good reason). In my humble opinion the UK public, and foreigners arriving from overseas should see more uniform in public not less. If we can't be proud of our troops and our uniforms then who is going to be?

[Load Toad]

Speaking purely as a civvy I think we should be proud to see the services in uniform, in public if they are happy with that. I've seen the forces of other countries in uniform in public & I think it creates a good impression not a negative one.

[Chainkicker]

My understanding of this issue is that that the airport operators do not want bods in uniforms on their patch, presumably from a security standpoint. I believe it has been agreed at MOD level. The theatre commanders (whichever one you may be in) have been told that part of the return brief is to have a set of civvies to change into if you are moving onward through a civil airport (not that the suntans and nice green sandy luggage wont give the game away).

[MightyGem]

:mad: outrageous!!!

[Melchett01]

The theatre commanders (whichever one you may be in) have been told that part of the return brief is to have a set of civvies to change into if you are moving onward through a civil airport (not that the suntans and nice green sandy luggage wont give the game away).

Or the weapons, assault vests, kevlar, ECBA etc. All coupled with a plane full of guys, even the most polite of which, will have undoubtedly developed the usual case of detachment Tourrettes Syndrome that won't start to wear off until after a couple of weeks leave. Makes it all a bit academic really doesn't it :E

But then a detachment just wouldn't be a detachment without the pointless REMF rules and regulations to dick you around and push you just that little bit closer to having your very own Private Pile moment!:ugh:

[MightyGem]

Contrast with THIS. (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=643847287&n=2)

Yes I know it's only a commercial, but the sentiment is there!

[BEagle]

Totally outrageous.

As if the overstretched, underfunded forces don't have enough buggering about as it is, for some faceless pratt to have decided that they may not be seen in uniform in a UK airport is scandalous.

This policy MUST BE ****CANNED NOW!!

That commercial pretty well sums things up - the contrast between the way the US treats its forces and the way the UK MoD does......

[woptb]

Return the favour,send the mandarin (who thought of this 'dog toss' idea!!) over to Basra in civvies, then get him to change into DPM!

[Rigga]

Playing devils advocate - I think it is not unreasonable to expect military personnel to wear civvies at civvie airports. This "request" is not made lightly and you should respect other peoples rules on security too! After all, many of the management genuinely love the publicity of an Armed Forces presence at airports.

Wearing Uniform, in the present situation, is no different from hanging around the Ticket counter at Luton/Stansted with a banner stating who you are and where you all mainly congregate on a regular weekly basis.

Awaiting the (thankfully written) Flak.


(Edti spelin)

[MajorMadMax]

Contrast with THIS. (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=643847287&n=2)
Yes I know it's only a commercial, but the sentiment is there!
Those are actual US soldiers in the commercial, but you will notice their uniforms were devoid of any insignia. The commercial was shown during the 2005 Super Bowl, and was ranked as the best ad among the nearly 60 shown during the game.

Land of the Free, Home of the Brave...

Cheers! M2

[Fg Off Max Stout]

MightyGem, that commercial was the first thing I thought of when I started reading this thread. Unfortunately, as Brits, you go and live in the desert heat for months, getting shot at, and when you come home you are treated like a third class citizen, a warlike embarrassment to this tree-huggy nation, or even a threat.

Incidentally, I was chatting to a cab driver last night. He drives cabs as his second job, being a university IT techy by day. He takes home 50% more than me in a good month, the same as me in a bad month, from his cabby job alone. He was also very proud to tell me that he only declared about 10% for tax purposes.

Sometimes it makes you wonder why you bother.

[Fitbin]

Rigga,

I see your point, but only to a certain extent.
On the way home from some hell-hole, you'll only pass through a civvie airport as a one off. It's not as if it's a regular thing. Catching the train every weekend to go home whilst wearing the uniform should definately be avoided, what with creating patterns and predictability and all that.
I know everyone is concerned about security but common sense has to come forward at some point.

[mutleyfour]

Disgusted,

what should be happening at Airports is being asked into the VIP/exec area for a drink or two and then being escorted to your flight.

All provided gratis of course as after all it would hardly dent the profit these places make!

It seems we are to be treated as the Americans were upon return from Vietnam. A forgotten group of personnel that the Government use to appease the US which in turn are using us to appease any US civil unease by allowing troop reductions.

[PileUp Officer]

Rigga,

I see your point, but only to a certain extent.
On the way home from some hell-hole, you'll only pass through a civvie airport as a one off. It's not as if it's a regular thing. Catching the train every weekend to go home whilst wearing the uniform should definately be avoided, what with creating patterns and predictability and all that.
I know everyone is concerned about security but common sense has to come forward at some point.


I remember getting a bollocking for not wearing a civvy jacket on the bus that ran between two RAF bases every weekday morning.
I mentioned that it was unlikely that a terrorist would think "Hmmm... that bus full of young men with short hair leaves one RAF base and drives to another everyday but they can't be military as they're all wearing civvy jackets" :confused:

[teeteringhead]

Certainly we could learn something from the "cousins" and it's not often you'll hear me say that!

Indeed, I think I've had more respect in uniform in the US than in this country ... apart from one petrol station in Kidderminster who thought I was an ambulance driver! RAF Wings = Redditch Ambulance Force??

And don't those playing the "security" card know that the current baddies will target you if you're a Brit, in or out of uniform??

Bl:mad: dy hellfire, I'm agreeing with BEags again!

[Reach]

Certainly we could learn something from the "cousins" and it's not often you'll hear me say that!

Indeed, I think I've had more respect in uniform in the US than in this country ... apart from one petrol station in Kidderminster who thought I was an ambulance driver! RAF Wings = Redditch Ambulance Force??

And don't those playing the "security" card know that the current baddies will target you if you're a Brit, in or out of uniform??

Bl:mad: dy hellfire, I'm agreeing with BEags again!

US military travelling on orders have to wear uniform on civilian flights within Conus.

[Gainesy]

So, I assume that you have to lug a set of (unusable) civvy togs around the sandpit for three or four months, just in order to satisfy this load of cobblers should you transit a civvy airport when you come back?:hmm:


Kin barking.:mad:

[FFP]

Flew on Dec 27 from Chicago to LHR for an onward flight to Middle East with an American carrier. Lady asked if I was military and was upgraded to Business class. In there were 5 uniformed US military personnel. Not that rank has anything to do with it, but all Private / Corporal rank.

For all the bad said about the Americans, they treat the ir boys and girls right.

Think that would happen in BA ? My ar$e it would !!

IN FACT !!!! The Bl00dy BA MOD Leisure line is more expensive than logging on as a civvi on their website !!!!

This country and it's attitude to those that fight for it sucks. It's embarrasing and as Max says, it makes you wonder why you bother.

[ShyTorque]

Perhaps our government is further hoping to keep the embarassment of this £ucked up and ill advised campaign to a minimum. :rolleyes:

Perhaps they hope that the public will forget, if they don't have to see the uniforms at airports to remind them, that our personnel are still being sent into harm's way? :rolleyes:

Perhaps they are further hoping that a terrorist organisation is stupid and will fail to realise that our personnel travel are obliged to travel civvy air if they aren't actually seen wearing uniform? :rolleyes:

SNAFU. :ugh:

[airborne_artist]

Perhaps they hope that the public will forget, if they don't have to see the uniforms at airports to remind them, that our personnel are still being sent into harm's way?

That's my take on it too.

[FJJP]

Now just think what the Sun would make of this:

"Bliar ashamed of our Squaddies - orders them not to be seen in uniform at civi airports".

Hope somebody points the editor to this thread...

[PICKS135]

Sorry to say but when a bl:mad: y footballer handing his tapes in, is more improtant to the BBC/ITN than 2 military personnell dying in Afghanistan. You just know the country has gone to rat sh:mad: t:mad: :mad:
Tried explaining to work matees why I was so peed off about it and all i got was ' calm down, thats what they get pad to do':ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

I gave up after that :\ :\

[johno617tonka]

did any one ever see the set up our american friends had at incirlik?? awesome!! morale tents ( thought they were something that you wouldn't tell the wife about at first!) free calls home, the usual food court type of stuff, and beer so cheap they were almost giving it away! strange that the said americans frequented our bar most nights!!!

i think the way our troops get treated here is disgraceful! the politics of what's going on does not matter in my eyes as the boys and girls don't have a choice in the matter and are paying dearly!!! i had a house party a while ago here and one of the neighbours wives was rattling on..." this is wrong, that is wrong, they shouldn't be there etc etc...." she was asked politely to leave!

i've been out of the mob now for nearly a decade and look back on how the world has changed, and how I was LUCKY to visit some great places around the world on detachment, but now the places don't seem at all fun, and surely never a party that my trips were!!!

i was at red flag one year and a few of us decided to visit LA on our long weekend, fantastic trip.... we even got 'twofers' on the flights!!!! dirt cheap accomodation in LA and taxi drivers that were simply in awe of the BRITISH MILITARY.... forces discount in all the eateries we visited etc etc .... my point being if you ever...and believe me i tried once or twice to see the reaction.. asked for forces discount in this country, you were looked at like some sort of criminal!!

i myself would applaud forces arriving back in blighty like it were second nature, even it i was in a packed terminal and no-one else bothered!!
these boys and girls are some of the most sincere, bravest, professional people in the world, they deserve that respect....

sorry to go on but my wife always makes a point that nothing will stop me from paying my respects on rememberance sunday! and tells everyone....
my worry is that the little kids are going to grow up and just not realise what people are sacrificing on a daily basis.....

will leave it at that, but am happy to discuss anything.....

J6T

[Tigs2]

Was having a beer in RAF Garrison Carterton the other night. Two young squaddies came in to the pub in uniform.They had missed their flight because of traffic (they were in MT) and had to wait until the following day, so quite rightly before going off to the Sandpit for the Third or Fourth time, they decided to go out for a beer. They did not have any Civvies available to them.

When they came to the bar to order a beer, they were asked to leave because uniform is not allowed in the bar?? I could not help but intervene and explained a few facts of life to the barman who said this was a ruling from Brize for security. Security for what? 80% of the people in the two pubs in Carterton are military, ex-military or Civvies working for the military. I pointed out that with the money the pubs take from servicemen and women that in the unusual event a squaddie is stranded with no civvies, about to go off and run the gauntlet yet again that the landlord should give a free pint to all of those departing who come in for a pre-deployment refreshment. They would have none of it, they backed down on the uniform issue and i bought the lads their beer all night.

I have experienced the amazing warmth and hospitality afforded to US servicemen by their country, for the British Armed forces it is just a Joke.

Mmmm now what was that poem i once saw on PPRuNE about nobody wanting soldiers until its time to fight, and then when they do, please do it in the background because nobody really wants to know as long as everyone is safe in their beds?? I know somebody on here will have it or a link to it.

I am going to forward the link to the advert above to David Cameron (Our MP)
and see what he says. Why didnt we have an advert like that during all commercial breaks for the world cup??

This is a link to more from the people that did the commercial above. Just click on any state. Do Alton Towers do this?? http://www.herosalute.com/

[johno617tonka]

good on you 'tigs'... interestingly did anyone else 'help' you out with convincing the barman??? places like that would only learn one way.....

" the bars empty tonight frank!... yes it has been every night since we barred them scruffy squaddies!"

nice to know that i'm not alone in my old age developing my 'military victor meldrew' attitude

regards

J6T

[greycoat]

Tigs would this be the one you refer to:

Tommy by Rudyard Kipling back in 1890

I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, 'We serve no erd-coats 'ere.'
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed and giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again, an' to myself sez I:
Oh, it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' 'Tommy, go away':
But it's 'Thank you, Mister Atkins,' when the band begins to play -
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
Oh, it's 'Thank you, Mister Atkins,' when the band begins to play.
I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' 'Tommy, wait outside';
But it's 'Special train for Atkins' when the trooper's on the tide -
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
Oh, it's 'Special train for Atkins' when the trooper's on the tide.
Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' 'Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?'
But it's 'Thin red line of 'eroes' when the drums begin to roll -
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
Oh, it's 'Thin red line of 'eroes when the drums begin to roll.
We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that , an' 'Tommy, fall be'ind,'
But it's 'Please to walk in front, sir,' when there's trouble in the wind -
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
Oh, it's 'Please to walk in front, sir,' when there's trouble in the wind.
You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' 'Chuck him out, the brute!'
But it's 'Saviour of 'is country' when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!

[Tigs2]

greycoat

Thats the one - how quick was that response:D . Awesome thanks.
it says it all really about this country's attitudes.

J6T

Nobody else chipped in i am afraid, but now you've got me wishing i had used the line ' I dont bloody belieeeeeve it' whilst explaining to the barman.

Found another link here http://www.shortfamilyonline.com/life/archives/000645.php

Its quite a nice tale of what one family experienced at Sea World in terms of the tribute to all servicemen and women. I wish i had been there. Does anyone know if they still do this?? I also had problems with the first link to the ad. There is a good link on this page.

[johno617tonka]

you SHOULD send that link to alton towers! they may take you up on it!
they have been hired out for a muslim holiday according to the 'sun', so they may actually fancy the idea.... a forces day.... ID cards admit 2 adults 2 children (lets not forget they suffer equally when dad/mum is away!)
you could be onto something tigs.....
ps you are editting quicker than i can post..... how does it go again?
" i don't bloody belieeeeeeeve it!!"

[A2QFI]

I see enough airmen and squaddies around the local Sainsburys in uniform but not wearing headgear. Why should a civil airport be different? The Government isn't proud of its Armed Forces and the public are hardly aware of them. They are more likely to be shot in uniform in the sandpit(s) than when they are going about their business in UK. If they are shot at in an airport then it shows security is slack IMHO.

[Krystal n chips]

Sadly, I would suggest this attitude is a sorry legacy from, and "hollow victory" :yuk: for the efforts of the "darling boys":mad: At one time, personnel in uniform were a common sight. Then, as we all know, wearing uniforms off base ( more or less ) became a no-no due to the security threat. Fair enough. However, in the interim, before the order was rescinded, a couple of generations grew up without a clue as to whom / what the Armed Forces do or look like---other than on the TV news of course. And lets be honest here, unless you live in the vicinity of an RAF base, Garrison town or Naval establishment, a significant proportion of the UK population never see Service personnel---no more air shows, open days, few recruiting tours-if any. Consequently, the role and status of the Armed Forces has now been diminished ( aided and abetted by a collection of :mad:that you wouldn't really be able to distinguish from the bio-regradeable version produced by dogs --other than by the aroma of hypocritical political angst of course ) to the extent that, whilst the security issue is a valid reason, it is now much more a reflection on our "society" that they would prefer the status of a footballer to be prominent in their minds than the Armed Forces.
Just how long does it actually take to deplane and transit "xx" amount of troops through a civvy airport---with a bit of planning and co-operation from all involved I wonder ? . As for the lack of discount for Service personnel, well again, it reflects the fact that many simply have no idea as to what and whom they are dealing with.

And of course, said operators are more than happy to "entertain" p££ed up chavs and yobbos on their way to Ibeeza or Ibeefa (depending upon the standard of literacy achieved during their one day or so per week at school as to how it's pronounced of course) yet are twitchy about the short term presence of UK Armed Forces. Not much in the way of ££'s to be made out of them after all !!----

I suppose it would be too much to hope that somebody within the PR Depts of the various Services actually recognises an opportunity to positively promote their purpose and those who serve in such?.

Sorry about the rant----just a get a shade p££sed off when I read about this sort of attitude.

[facsimile]

Tigs2, Was there 3 weeks ago and they still do it before the main show.

[Tigs2]

facsimilie

Thanks, my girlie is in Afghanistan and i would love to take her there on her return (it would be worth the flights and the time just to see her face). Thanks. (are you in the service? If so i hope you stood up and took the applause)


J6T
have sent the three links and an explanatory letter to the whole of the Tussauds group. Lets see what happens (I wont hold my breath), also to David Cameron MP..

[facsimile]

Tigs2, Was in the military many years ago, we may slate the Americans for many things but the way they treat their military is quite humbling. Perhaps they learnt their lesson after Vietnam.

[The Swinging Monkey]

Yes, you can say what you like about the Americans, but the fact is that their servicemen and women are held in high esteem, Unlike here in the UK, where they are treated like (and regarded as) second class citizens.
Its well known that refugees and asylum seekers in this country are now treated infinately better than our military folk.

Shame on us all for allowing it to be so.

The saddest part is tho' that none of our very senior officers have got the balls to stand up and say NO!! Come on CAS, CDS and all the others, stand up and be counted and tell the politicians that you are NOT prepared to have YOUR men and women treated in such a disgraceful and shameful manner.

TSM

[Tigs2]

Here Here!

[4fitter]

Had cause to take the young 4fs to the dentist in a town not far from the home of the British Army. I was in uniform, wore a hat and believe I am always smart. My sons could not believe the looks of either bewilderment or disdain I received. I walked 2" taller and returned the looks of those who choose to stare. Very very sad :(

[Chesty Morgan]

As a civvy truckie, whose old man was RAF fast jets for nigh on 25 years, I can certainly understand the pride with which you should be allowed to wear your uniforms. ESPECIALLY in public.

TSM. I think those members of the public who have got any brains, hopefully me!, certainly do not regard you as 2nd class citizens. I have many friends in the RAF, and I grew up in that community, unfortunately for medical reasons I could not join it. I am rightfully proud of them, and you.

I don't own an airport:( But if I did I'd be buying!

Keep up the good work

Cheers

Chesty

PS Blair you are an ignorant c**t. Get a spine like the boys and girls who defend your country:ok:

[microlight AV8R]

Un- bl:mad: dy believable !!!

Who are the idiots who make up these rules ? Probably some civil-servant I expect, God forbid that an Officer in H M Services would be responsible !

Personally, I think uniforms should be worn with pride in our Chav State.

This policy is an insult to service personnel returning from active service who have probably used up their 'baggage allowance' just for essential kit and I doubt that many of them have suitable accomodation to keep decent civvy kit for the return journey.

Absolutely pathetic. 'nuf said

[DESPERADO]

I put this thread here because I was pretty horrified by the notion that personnel in British military uniform would not be welcome at UK airports. People arriving from abroad will see heavily armed police in uniform as a security deterrent, but the military it seems are persona non grata in their own country unless it is at the annual remembrance service.
The guys who arrived at the same time as me from theatre were reduced to washing and cleaning themselves in the arrivals lounge toilets at Bzn as there were 'no shower facilities available to them' (gateway house anyone?). I must admit I admire the way they took it on the chin - I was furious.

Those that have commented that the troops might be a bit jaded and use some swear words in public are kind of missing the point. The whole country needs to wake up and see the faces of the troops coming back from theatres various and realise that we are at war. It may not be in Europe or on the beaches at Dover, but we are sending our young men and women off to fight in a foreign land and many of them are coming back dead or badly injured. I have some questions:

1. Why does nobody know (or they aren't telling) how many British service personnel have been injured in Iraq/Afghanistan since 2001?
2. Why are we hidden (the military) from the public?
3. How many govt ministers (or shadow ministers for that matter) have visited injured service personnel in hospital? If there are 'morale boosting' visits lets put them on TV so the whole country can see what the troops are going through.
4. Why does it take so long for a coronial inquest into each death? If, God forbid, a family member was killed in a car crash it would take less than half the time for the inquest to be heard.
5. In UK law the trial of persons accused of an unlawful act must be conducted within a sensible amount of time or the judge can throw it out based on the unreasonable nature of keeping someone waiting for justice. Yet, if you are in the military and accused of a crime it will take 3+ years to come to trial. Why are their different standards applied?
6. Why does our govt insist on putting ministers in charge of the MOD who would never have survived IOT or Sandhurst if they had joined up?

I must admit I found the whole hand-wringing and national angst about the World Cup pretty surreal against the back-drop of our friends and colleagues getting shot at and killed on a daily basis.

I said it before on the thread about the Dr from Kinloss who wouldn't go - that the only reason most of us still do what we do is for the mates and comrades around us. I lost my idealism some time ago and the cynical nature of the way the govt conducts its propaganda has finally finished me off. Most of us don't go to war for an ungrateful country and we definately don't do it for Tony Blair. We do it for our brothers in arms.

We must be allowed to wear our uniform in public, anywhere in the country with pride.

[dallas]

I've got two takes on this:

Firstly I think it should be made optional for people to travel in uniform. I'm personally not a fan as it's difficult to relax and No2 blues - God forbid No1s! - just don't travel well. I'd actually resent being forced to wear it when travelling for a variety of complicated reasons, not least I don't like being a walking billboard!

As for other issues - upgrades, discounts, free entry to places etc. I think we're being a bit naive. Similar schemes in Britain would be so widely abused they'd be withdrawn in days in a similar fashion to the Blue Peter badge wearers trying to get into a zoo en masse. Or can you imagine LCpl Bloggs and his mates from 2 Para showing restraint in BA's First Class Lounge Bar? As a race we're programmed to take as much as we can and pay as little as we can, unlike the Americans who - perhaps programmably - follow the spirit of their privileges by not kicking the ass out of them and, on the whole, self-police themselves. If you've ever tried to get a Spam to get you a case of beer from a UK BX you'll know what I mean - compare that to a tab-smuggling squaddie from BFG.

Where we are missing a trick is by utilising our combined buying power for proper discounts - not those published in the Forces Discount Brochure. If we were organised - some might say by a federation - we could be a fairly powerful economic bloc and could almost certainly negotiate substantial discounts for things like car insurance, just like the civil service do already.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

I had the joy of attending a meeting in Abbey Wood last week. In one of the tree house cafes, there was a Sqn Ldr aircrew type in DPM rig and special non reflective boots. Perhaps the airlines are saving us from JS uniforms regs. That said; doesn't explain the requirement for plain clothes on the Timmy down to MPA.

A serious point: many years ago, wasn't there a hijack of an A/C with uniformed US serviceman on board? I seem to remember that they were singled out for special treatment.

[junglyking]

FWIW, we at Yeovilton are positively encouraged to wear uniform ashore - since the change in policy wrt NI - mess kit in the pubs in Sherborne before the JCP always goes down well. Keeping the RN and especially the FAA in the public eye is just one facet of the whole recruiting drive to ensure we get sufficient inflow through Raleigh and BRNC's doors.... Just like SiClik's Royal Navy badges for all FAA aircrew being another way of recruiting... We have (or had) a Lynx away as either a static or displaying as the Black Cats almost every weekend this summer, with as many maintainers and aircrew talking to the public as possible.
I cannot believe this policy as described above - did someone actually think it up to annoy us? It really is a fanastic retention measure :ugh: . Looking at the Busch Heroes site above reminded me of this:
Disney World - Golf Resort (http://www.shadesofgreen.org/home.html) - don't see Tussaud's handing over the Alton Tower's Hotel to the NAAFI or SAFFA to run....
jk

[BEagle]

How many of those ar$e-licking sycophants in Bliar's so-called government have any sort of military uniform they could wear in public?

Fatty Two Shags in his sailor suit doesn't really count, of course.

One thinks that if that old dear with the handbag was still driving No.10, some faceless bureaucrat would be doing a bit of an Axminster shuffle over this.

I garher that, not only do the lads have to try to change in the lavatories at the Covert Oxonian Aerodrome, but most of the loos are u/s and whatever the latest silly name for MoW/MPBW/DoE is won't fix them as a priority? But that IS only a rumour.....

[johno617tonka]

until about four years ago i used to work at a major north west airport and still keep in contact with one or two of my work mates....

one of them told me that they regularly got/get medi vac flights in from those nice places in the world that our boys and girls are fighting in, and they are almost sworn to secrecy when they are arriving/who is on board etc etc.....

it was the same when i was there! a trooping flight would be parked up at some remote side of the airport and it seemed to me that the coaches bringing/picking them up would almost sneak in like some unwanted disease and off they went to where they were heading!! BUT........................

when someone famous turned up, same corner of airfield, but almost a fanfare as they arrived.... i know for certain that a certain group of charitable soccer players arrived a few weeks back, they were caught on the ramp smoking!!!!!! but i have it on good authority that no one 'important' said anything as they didn't want to upset them....

it sort of brings it back to a post earlier..... the press, and maybe even the public(although there is one or two on here that i will distance from that comment) would rather hear about some pop star/footballer/celebrity's everyday life than someone else who has risked or for that matter lost theirs!!

the society we live in is all wrong, we pamper to the WRONG people, i have noticed in the last 48 hrs the complete lack of moronic idiots walking around draped in the george cross! where have they all gone?? i thought that they were english/british and proud of it!! i would be interested to see how 'patriotic' they really are and issue them with a challenge.... change places with the next poor soul tasked with yet another tour in some god forsaken place, and wear that flag with pride.............................. WHAT NO TAKERS??? TOO SCARED OF LOSING YOUR EASY, BENEFIT FUNDED LIFESTYLE EH?? THOUGH SO!!!

oh well the tabloids must really be in a bind to find space for the next installment of WAGS or which pop star is smoking what, because some soldier has got himself killed, somewhere or other.... but we need the space in the paper!!!

tigs, i hope that all them e-mails have some sort of effect with alton towers etc.... the yanks do put us to shame in some respects......


also i remember talking to a 'hostie' once at the airport that was about to go pick up some squaddies from somewhere.. i asked her if she had a problem with it, ie what flights were best club 18-30 drunken idiots, or sqn/regt x??
her answer was fairly simple.... " i TRY not to bend down too much, as it seems like 200 sex starved sets of eyes are staring at me constantly, but as long as they get a beer or two i would take them over said drunken idiots anyday!!!!"

ok rant over.... or is it????


tigs i see you have a loved one away at the mo? hope she is ok and keeping well! tell her i (and i think that i can talk for others on here) think what she is doing is very commendable, brave and i am in awe at her and her friends!!
tell her that no matter how hard things get, there is ALWAYS people back in britain who would support them no matter what!!!!

regards to all

J6T

[Tigs2]

J6T
Thank You.

[johno617tonka]

i think that we forget that not all people are in agreement with the papers, the political do gooders and those in this country who hide theirselves away from what is going on around them.....

what winds me up is that our troops are in a sort of catch 22 system! you would of thought that in an 'almost' ideal world it would be a case of... thanks for risking your life out there...here is a few weeks off to catch up on things with your family and friends... don't forget to use your voucher to get the fortnights holiday to somehere you can top up your tan and NOT get shot at... but instead it's a case of.... don't hand your kit back in, you will need it again in six months... oh never mind it was only xmas you missed, but whilst you are waiting can you pop over to..... well you get my drift....

these boys and girls should be treated like hero's when they set foot back in this country...

isn't it amazing how much 'passion' an american commercial for beer can bring out in people???

the poster earlier is correct about the british mentality of kicking the backside out of any sort of discount the military would get!! it's a shame but unfortunately true.... the painted picture of the parachute regiment in the business class lounge has me roaring with laughter... you are right my friend, i think they would behave like gentlemen, until some stuffy businessman told them to take their feet of the chairs and to talk a little quieter.. then the fun would begin..... ring side tickets anyone??????

regards

J6T

[topgas]

This uniform thing is the same at Chillwell for reservists - you're ok walking around a service station in uniform on the way there from Brize, but when you are picked up by unit transport, to be taken straight home, you have to be in civvies, (though must admit I just took off the shirt to get out of the gate) The danger is, out of sight, out of mind and no-one will even think of it as a career. There was someone about a year ago produced GB stickers with a yellow ribbon around containing the caption Support Our Troops - unfortunately didn't catch on.

That was a great ad - made my spine tingle watching it.

[johno617tonka]

their was a video knocking about with a tribute to an american families lost son.... now that did have my goose bumps raised...

can't remember when i last saw the VERY unfortunate sight of the rear of a C-17 being unloaded with 'our' heroes!! maybe it's not happening anymore! but i suppose the world cup AND big brother have been on!!!!!

[vecvechookattack]

This must be an RAF/Army reg....In the RN we are positively encouraged to wear rig ashore...almost becomming compulsory

[greycoat]

GBZ, it has something to do with potential divs en-route. If not sensitive, maybe AT bod could explain.

[Chainkicker]

I had the joy of attending a meeting in Abbey Wood last week. In one of the tree house cafes, there was a Sqn Ldr aircrew type in DPM rig and special non reflective boots. Perhaps the airlines are saving us from JS uniforms regs. That said; doesn't explain the requirement for plain clothes on the Timmy down to MPA.
Thats because the diversion for MPA is/was Brazil. Apparently they dont like foreigners in uniform wandering round :)

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Thanks lads. Now I cast my mind back, past all those beers (year 2000 to present), that was the reason. It may be heresy but DPM never actually felt like a uniform; and on some, it never actually looked like one either!

G B Z

PS.

Just a thought; I wonder if it's the en route diversion aspect that's the driver to this thread? I can imagine a few countries in N. Africa/ Middle East where a UK serviceman might not be a welcome sight. Anybody got a definite on that?

[halty]

Went to Florida in May this year and took advantage of the Sea World free military entry, saving a whopping $260 {beats 10% at cotswold camping} for a family of five and we even got "Here's to the Hero's" wrist bands but the reception in the Shamu stadium was amazing! we had just got settled in the soak zone when they played the advert with US servicemen in the gulf and one of the staff asked any serving millitary personnel and thier families from any nation, to stand up and receive thanks from the crowd! i was so gob smacked from the crowd clapping and cheering i was unable to stand up! quess we are just not used to being thanked.
Halty

[Blacksheep]

In times gone by, when we had to wear civvies on RAF trooping flights in case of en-route diversion there was a reason. For example, our French 'friends' didn't permit military overflights so AscotXXX masqueraded as a civlian flight. A UK airport and domestic flights etc. don't come anywhere near the unwelcome diversion rule. Its home, its our country and our military. I'm pleased, not to say proud to see servicemen out and about in uniform and I'm sure that the majority of people are too.

In any case, is it actually legal for servicemen to be out and about in disguise? ;)

[The Monkey]

I have also enjoyed free entry in to Seaworld - in San Diego. I thought the short film at the shamu show about their troops was a bit over the top but the reaction afterwards was amazing. The 'Heros' were asked to stand up and got a full on ovation. More of that please!

[Nibbled2DeathByDucks]

can't remember when i last saw the VERY unfortunate sight of the rear of a C-17 being unloaded with 'our' heroes!! maybe it's not happening anymore! but i suppose the world cup AND big brother have been on!!!!!

Yesterday :\

[Winco]

Swinging Monkey hits the nail squarly on the head when he asks 'why are the higher echelons of the services not standing up to this?' So come on 'your airships' tell us why

I agree that the Americans do often go 'over the top' with this patriotism stuff, but I would rarther have that, than what we (don't) have in this country. Why can our Armed Forces NOT be seen in public in uniform? Are the government or those high up so ashamed of them? It is utterly deplorable, and as an ex serviceman I am extremely annoyed and disgusted that it has got to this point now. BEagle is right also, there is NO way the Iron lady (bless her) would have allowed her service men and women to be treated is such a manner.

It never ceases to amaze me to what lengths this government will go to show the world what 'good eggs' they all are, helping those in Africa, debt relief here, more aid there. IMHO its high time we started to look after those a bit closer to home, starting with our armed forces men and women, who provide the cover for the likes of Bliar and that fat deputy of his.

My heartiest best wishes to all our serving (and ex) Forces personnel.

The Winco

[Fitbin]

Just had a thought, maybe the powers that be dont want us in uniform out in public just in case it offends any of our migratory friends. Would make sense as charity shops were asked to remove Christmas decs for the very same reason.

[Climebear]

The relevant bit from RAF Dress Regs is
Wearing of Uniform in Public (UK) (QR 199)
0110. All RAF personnel at UK units should normally wear civilian clothes when they are not required for duty. However, unless otherwise ordered, No 1 and No 2 uniform modes may be worn routinely in public, on public transport, on foot or in private transport. This ruling must take into account security implications and a commonsense approach to local situations. The remaining paragraphs of this Chap also detail particular situations when uniform can and cannot be worn. Local orders, i.e. SSOs, SRO’s, etc, will detail current circumstances regarding the wearing of uniform. Uniform is not to be worn on the following occasions:
a. When participating in non-Service parades (e.g. on Remembrance Day, Battle of Britain Day, etc) serving officers are forbidden to wear uniform if conditions require them to appear in the ranks with serving or ex-Service personnel below commissioned rank. This does not preclude the wearing of uniform by those officiating at a saluting base or appearing officially with a party of civic officials.
b. Uniform is not to be worn by prospective or adopted parliamentary candidates at political meetings, or while canvassing, appearing in public or engaged in any other activities connected with their candidature.
c. Uniform is not to be worn at functions where fancy dress is worn; the wearing of uniform of obsolete design, which is clearly distinguishable from the pattern currently worn, is, however, permitted.
d. Uniform is not to be worn by personnel engaged in temporary or part-time civil employment or while seeking such employment.
d. When visiting Public Houses or places of entertainment and/or consuming alcohol, unless at a recognised Service function or when officially representing the Service at an external function.
f. Relaxed Dress. There may be occasions when a relaxed form of dress is appropriate, such as in DOR activities. Any Commanders proposing to initiate a relaxed dress policy is to obtain formal approval from the Chairman of the Dress Policy Committee.[
I don't know why there are 2 sub-para ds and no sub-para e.
And yes, it is sad that I know where the regs are.

[Shadwell the old]

Oh to get the chance to go through a civvy airport. On a slightly different but related topic.

Air and ground crews from ISK transiting too and from the lands of sand, get the pleasure of travelling to and from Timmy's home by coach. At the beginning and end of the deployment they have to endure a 12-14 hour bus journey. The reason is not because of the large gathering of service men and women in one place but...........cost! Before the journey commences all concerned have to change into civvies to comply with "the regulations".

The cost of the coaches is many thousands of pounds, but "they" claim it is cheaper because Easy Jet or BA would charge a large amount of excess baggage, and the Service would have to pay for full price tickets to maintain the flexibility in case of delay.

Of course the country values its military.

Shadwell

[Tigs2]

Fitbin
Dont get me started on that one please:ugh: Its another thing that drives me nuts - I dont Bloody Belieeeve it!

[endplay]

TIGS2, Well done for buying beer for those lads and, although it would probably be wasted on them, a framed copy of Kipling's Tommy for the pub might be an idea. One other area where military personnel in uniform may be refused service is, of course, our respective messes? Makes you think doesn't it? I was refused entry to the Sgt's mess in the Falklands (mid 80's) when I finished work at about 10pm ish and fancied a quick jar before bed. How many other messes would apply a similar ruling today I wonder?

[In Tor Wot]

What security issue could there be for personnel travelling through our own airports in uniform? Is BAA seriously suggesting that if al q'ada knew service personnel were using airports they would become instant targets? Utter hoop.

I'd be more than tempted to disregard this 'security' rule and do it anyway. I defy BAA to 'prosecute' me. They can throw me out if they wish, but my standing in their foyer letting everyone know what the airport's policy towards the UK's service personnel is would be a damn sight more embarrassing for them than me. As for the military regulations - should anyone step forward to enforce this utter b:mad: we would at least be able to pin down who it was that came up with this stupidity in the first place, where it is articulated, who signed off on the ‘regulation’ . . . . . rant, rant, rant :ugh:

And another thing - why aren't we allowed to wear uniform to/in MOD? (don't quote security, the fact that you're entering the building might be a clue that you are connected to the UK's military!)

CAS, CGS, CDS - want to know why 85% of Sqn Ldrs stated they would take their option in the next 5 years? (continuous attitude survey 05) - then read this thread and DO something other than pontificate!

[Clockwork Mouse]

Don't blame the political masters, at least not for this one. It is an own goal by the Army and RAF high paid help. As is often the case, the Navy are ahead of the power curve and actually encourage their servicemen and women to be seen in uniform in public. I bet it does great things for their self-respect and for recruiting.
The security rationale for creeping around like grey mice is frankly b*ll*cks. Even when there was a real IRA threat it was counter productive. When I was serving I hated having to disguise myself as a civvy, totally ineffectually as we all came and went from our place of work in full view, short haircuts, lean and mean appearance (I was much younger then!) and carrying a military duffle bag died red or blue or whatever. Didn't do much for our morale and self esteem but must have been great for the opposition to see they had us on the run. We are British soldiers. We should flaunt it proudly.

[fightingchickenplumb]

Ill second that, I was Disgusted and apallled certainly by the BBC news, the England captains resignation gets seven minutes, two squaddies are killed and the BBC cover it with two minutes of coverage (And yes I did time it). IT makes me sick. I did lodge an offical complaint with the Beeb and Im awaiting my reply. Footballs a game, the war is peoples familes, makes me feel like HM forces are a worthwhile job. I personally am so disillusioned now the govt,media and worst of all the public do not care what happens to the forces, and it saddens me.

[Fitbin]

FCP
I agree fully with what you say. Crazy idea but if these overpaid bags of wind that pass as footballers took a huge pay cut down to something sensible (say 50K a year for doing your hobby), the rest of the money could be shovelled into the defence budget. That ought to buy our boys and girls some of the much needed kit required to do their job, which happens to be done for a far smaller wage than the footie freaks get.:ugh:

[deskpushinshiney@rse]

that the reason we have to carry civilian clothing is because our Strat AT flies (sometimes) via the civilian airports in the Middle East, before going back to Blighty - and you could remain in compound (in uniform), or go into town (in civilian attire) - given those options I think bringing some civvies is worth it, as a Crab Air Stalag 18 compound is no fun on return from SANDGHANSITAN!
On the subject of wearing uniform in the UK civil airports, it is worth remembering that active terrorist cells collate information on us military types, so advertising yourself might not be the cleverest move. Shame I know, but the fact remains bad guys want to do bad stuff to us and ours.

[Fitbin]

I don't think the terrible-ist's really give a monkeys who they hit. If they were fussy, the London bombings wouldn't have happened. They won't discriminate, but will keep going till they think it's all finished, and if that means civillians buying the big one to achieve the goal then that's what they'll do. Ba:mad: :mad: :mad: rds.

[South Bound]

On the subject of wearing uniform in the UK civil airports, it is worth remembering that active terrorist cells collate information on us military types, so advertising yourself might not be the cleverest move. Shame I know, but the fact remains bad guys want to do bad stuff to us and ours.

Personally if I was a baddy, I would wait outside a military establishment rather than sit in an airport just in case a serviceman happened to go by in uniform.

I think it is a huge shame we don't wear it in public a bit more, was fairly downcast when I stopped to help a lady change a wheel and she thought I was a RAC man in my No 2s....

[deskpushinshiney@rse]

you're not a bad guy so you have balls. they won't sit outside the military base as it is considered a hard target, taking us (or civilians) in a civil airport is considered a soft target, making it easier for them to get their ration of virgins in the next life (or so they think).

[Fitbin]

I think it is a huge shame we don't wear it in public a bit more, was fairly downcast when I stopped to help a lady change a wheel and she thought I was a RAC man in my No 2s....

Maybe thats the problem. Should we bin our uniform and dress like the RAC, or is the government embarrassed of those people too?

[Tigs2]

that the reason we have to carry civilian clothing is because our Strat AT flies (sometimes) via the civilian airports in the Middle East, before going back to Blighty - and you could remain in compound (in uniform), or go into town (in civilian attire) - given those options I think bringing some civvies is worth it, as a Crab Air Stalag 18 compound is no fun on return from SANDGHANSITAN!


Deskpushinshiney

If you think you are more at risk going through UK airports in Uniform, to travelling around 'down town' in certain Middle Eastern countrys in Civvies then think again. Frankly, having survived a tour on Ops in Iraq or Afghanistan, i would much rather stay in the compound whilst waiting the next flight, and ensure i got home safely to my family.

We are misinterpreting the threat, and allowing the terrorist to do what they want i.e surpress our lifestyle. Airports are soft targets you say - or are they??. They haven't attacked one yet. An airport is actually a 'harder target than a military base in many respects, look how many armed coppers are on duty at any one time! Far more than at any military base. If a terrorist were going to attack an airport, they will attack one, regardsless of whos walking through in whatever attire. But they tend not to because they are full of armed police. Furthermore, if i were waiting to attack, the site of 20-100 military uniformed guys coming through the airport would scare me s*****ss. Not all terrorists are suicide bombers. Just like the IRA they plan with precision and if they dont have a reliable escape plan they are unlikely to do the job, because they want to live.

It's no wonder the government can axe the armed forces, with sweeping redundencies and cutbacks with little or no response from Joe Public, because Joe Public doesn't know we exist apart from Two minutes a day on the news. Try cutting 10, 000 jobs from Ford or Honda and see how much that hits the papers. The government don't want anything that will raise our profile/popularity with the public, because it would make life to difficult for them when they try to axe us.

Get the uniforms on!

[South Bound]

Tigs

Hoorah, too right matey.

We need to make people proud to wear their uniforms, proud of doing something different for a living, proud of the immense commitment every 17/18 year old is making when they join up and learn to use a rifle.

Pride is difficult for many when they have seen so many changes, but the guys and girls on the ground on ops are just the same as those that have gone before, and recent events have shown us that people still die on ops as they have done since combat was invented. While we remain in the Services we should remain proud of what we are and what we do, we should wear our uniforms wherever we can and not hide away.

That is difficult for a generation that has been told to hide away because of the IRA threat and one that keeps being told that the overtly proud American way is well over the top and not the way it should be done. But that is tosh and we must try to grow proud of who we are and what we do.

Personally, whenever I feel self-conscious walking down the high street, I just think to myself about all the places I have been that they will never go; all the experiences I have shared that they cannot; all the friends I have, the relationships they will never understand;and the things I have seen that they should be grateful they will never have to see because I am there. And I am proud.

Really sorry to all those that are throwing up, but I really do not see what is wrong with wanting to feel like that about my job. If Joe Public doesn't like it, stuff him.

[South Bound]

Oh, and I like my hat!

[Wrathmonk]

... and broadening the scope a little bit - how about having everyone who works in MOD / Abbey Wood etc wear uniform. If nothing else it would help differentiate between the military and the civil servants (although the long hair and open toed sandals of the later may be a give away). Irritates me to see our Lords and Masters being interviewed in their best M&S suits!

[Tigs2]

South Bound
I agree. If there is one thing in common that EVERY serviceman has, the one thing that binds them together in doing a job that takes you away from home, isn't particularly well paid considering you are put in harms way, demands total loyalty and comittment from you 24/7, and demands that under the most difficult, adverse conditions you perform your job selflessley to the absolute best of your ability it is PRIDE - PROFESSIONAL PRIDE. Its the thing that gives a young soldier the courage to die trying to save his mates or downed crew (even more recently trying to save the bodies of downed crew). In the UK like it or not it is knowing we took the Queens Shilling, I am sure the US armed forces have a similar concept.

When we all graduated from our training schools, we all stood on parade in uniform and felt as proud as you ever have done in your life (do you all remember that feeling? it was the best). I now feel just as proud of the young guys who are going into harms way far earlier in their career than i ever did in a cold war scenario. Is it two much to ask that as a nation, we recognise the achievments and sacrifice of these people.

Remember the sacrifice is often great, not only death and injury, but for many, more routinely, the fact that so much time away from home invariabley leads to relationship and family problems. I, like many of my peer group, sweated blood and tears for my uniform, and it cost me my family. The pressure on Spouses of , girlfriends and boyfriends of, is immense. To be told that i must sneak in and out of airports, full of the people we are trying to save is outrageous. If you are a member of 22 Reg or the SBS, then fair enough, but the majority of us should be able to fly our flag for the rest of those who cannot. Still, in a country where we consider it antagonistic to fly our own national flags, what hope do we have. Try telling a US marine to take down the flag he flys in his front garden and he will likely kill you with his bare hands.

To CDS and CAS etc. We accept that the government will force cuts upon you, but please do not let them take away what we are about, our pride, our loyalty our sense of belonging. Dont let them make us feel like second class citizens for protecting our country, because i know that all of our people may not be angels (Wars are not one by angels), but they are all first class citizens. You gentlemen of all people can tell the Defense Secretary to shove it, when he/they suggest we must go around in civilian attire.

[South Bound]

:D

Well said

[Climebear]

Quick (and inflamatory) question:

If MOB Main Building has the function of the nation's highest military HQ, why don't the military officers who work there wear uniform like those who work in the subordinate military HQs?;)

[deskpushinshiney@rse]

..whilst I appreciate the sentiment, you're living in dream land if you think we can safely wear our uniform in public.

[South Bound]

DPSA

you know, in London and some of the big cities you are probably right and that is very very sad. What a crap country we live in where the very people that protect a population's freedom of speech/religion/political extremes are not safe to wear ones work clothes out of work.

Think I shall go somewhere else where I am wanted.

[Tigs2]

Climebear
i guess its so they can all go to the pub at lunchtime. I dont think they wear civvies in the pentagon do they??(i dont know, i've never worked there).


DPSA
I disagree. if we educated the public to be proud of our servicemen there would be no problem at all. I have wandered the streets of many a sh**y place in the world, many times unarmed. I tink if i can do that there i can do it in Lincoln or Manchester or London, but ESPECIALLY an airport.

[deskpushinshiney@rse]

I still love living in London though, despite the threat, it is a great Capital to a Great Country - and I am proud to have (and still do) defend her!

[Roadster280]

Climebear
i guess its so they can all go to the pub at lunchtime. I dont think they wear civvies in the pentagon do they??(i dont know, i've never worked there).
DPSA


There I was, minding my own business eating lunch in a pizzeria the other week, in the vicinity of Washington Dulles(t) airport. Imagine my surprise when two RAF Sgts strolled in, wearing uniform, and sat down to watch the football. Noone batted an eyelid.

Certainly wouldnt happen in the UK. Hats off to those guys.

[South Bound]

£10 they were adminers. Only way you can get a job overseas now is to be a shiney and post yourself there!

[vecvechookattack]

At the end of the day it is really up to the person what he wears. I for one regularly wear rig ashore....Tescos, shops etc. If I felt the need to wear uniform ashore then I would do and Id be bloody proud to do so. Nobody is going to ask/order you to get changed or stop wearing uniform when you are representing and defending this country. And should theyb try then Im sure a quick email to Rebecca Wade would do the trick.

[clicker]

Speaking as a civvie I would prefer to see the lads in uniform.

It's reassuring and surely must pass the message that the country cares from a security point of view and that we all value the hard work that these lad's and lass's have all done.

Clicker

[Roadster280]

£10 they were adminers. Only way you can get a job overseas now is to be a shiney and post yourself there!

Movers, I would guess, as it was about 5 mins from the airport. I assume therefore that there's an RAF unit there. There is certainly a Luftwaffe one.

[MarkD]

could be worse - in Ottawa they p!ss all over military memorials, literally (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060704/probe_warmemorial_060704/20060704?hub=TopStories).

a classy town, oh yes.

[PAMCC]

I have no problem with seeing people in uniform anywhere.

However, do these guys actually _want_ to travel in their uniforms? Unless it's a hassel factor to actually change into civvies, I would have thought they could'nt wait to leave the uniform behind for a while.

I also can't help wondering what all the post would be if they reversed the order and stated that all service personnel MUST wear uniform when travelling whatever the mode and means of transport.

[scroggs]

..whilst I appreciate the sentiment, you're living in dream land if you think we can safely wear our uniform in public.

Really? Why not? I may be a little out of touch - has there been a run of attacks on military personnel within the UK recently? Are our terrorist enemies specifically targetting military personnel, their homes and their modes of transport? This must have escaped the BBC's sharpest journalists!

Or is it yet another example of good old British 'I'll make sure they can't sue me' sloping-shoulder disease?

This stinks, as it did in the days of the IRA - when there really was a threat.

[BEagle]

Killing some time in Wichita waiting for yet another new (OK, sorry, reconditioned) bit to be sent out for our knackered old FunBus, we were having lunch in a local restaurant.

In walked 4 USAF flight crew in growbags, who sat down and ordered.

Nothing unusual - except that this was a restaurant which some of you will have heard of. Hooters! For those who've never heard of it (poor saps) see http://www.originalhooters.com/

Imagine the Sun headlines if 4 RAF aircrew in growbags called into Hooters in the UK! Incidentally, one of the USAF flight crew was a lady - and she was quite happy to be in Hooters.

[[email protected]]

BEags,

Did they get a free handful?

[[email protected]]

Of peanuts!!!! you lot have minds in the gutter :}

[Bumz_Rush]

I am a corporate captain and only visit the Military forum to see what I have missed.

I live in Gibraltar, and am exposed to the uniform on/off culture, but only slightly.
I always see Navy chaps in uniform in the town, but very few RAF, and never Army, (well perhaps 1). Navy whites always look smart and stylish.

As an aside the Hooters company had until recently their own airline HootersAir.......

Secondly, as the BAA has been taken over by the Spanish, will the uniform policy change?....

Lastly, in almost any US airport you see uniformed service people, and I feel safer.

Thanks for your work, and please dont let the bast&rds get you down.

Bumz.

[topgas]

There was a story I heard immediately post 9/11 that one plane had a load of Marines in uniform on board, when it landed at nearest airport as instructed, a number of young men amongst the passengers quietly disappeared. probably not true, but I think the presence of uniformed personnel is going to make a bad guy think twice.

On wearing uniform in UK, RN does appear to be different - RN were allowed to wear uniform on last weekend's Gay something march, RAF and Army were not, although there was of course no ban on attending

[petop]

Ref wearing mil uniform on RAF flights...i was travelling to Afghanistan and we stopped off in Romania (dont think you do anymore). We were in uniform all the way and the hotel we stayed in (5*) didnt have a problem with ourselves in uniform.
But i agree with the US attitude to military. Arriving in Sanford Airport in Orlando i was asking for a up-grade and the girl on the rental desk spied my MOD 90 in my wallet. Seeing this she said if i was mil she could do a good deal...so from a crappy focus type car i went up to a Camaro convertible for only $10 extra per day! The Australians treat their forces in the same way as well..

[BEagle]

I remember the way the local council tried to sting me for poll tax whilst I was away in GW1. When I pointed out that there was no-one at home, the jobsworth told me that, in that case, it would be classified as a 'holiday home' and I have to pay even more.

Fortunately Hesseltine announced that all who had been away in GW1 would have their tax refunded, so the little $hit at the council office had to eat his words and pay up.

[TwoBoats]

I am new to this site and first time post, here goes:
I was appalled to read about this subject and hope that someone has drawn the media's attention to it, if not I have a friend who is a jounalist on our local city paper and I will be speaking with him this morning.

I always wore my uniform with pride and always got favourable comments and the people where I lived were always commenting and I couldn't buy a beer when I was home on leave. How sad it is that things seem to have moved full circle.

On the subject the security issue's perhaps the brass or whoever decided on this, if they used the security card, as most tend to, then maybe they should take a look at this link.

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2005/we-are-not-afraid-p1.php


To all those who have served I say this :D :D :D

[doubledolphins]

I am completely bewildered by this thread. To be honest I feel like going to work tonight in my Naval uniform and not my airline one.( I wear a naval belt any way, like a lot of other guys. No one has told me to take it off yet.) I dont think many would notice the difference.Or I may be mistaken for a customs officer. A couple of weeks ago our Flag Officer instructed us to wear our uniforms on the streets to raise public awareness. In doing so he was only emphasising a policy that has been in place for a while now. As to military uniforms being a security threat well I am sorry but I would have thought that it would be a deterent to see squadies all over the place.

[Oblique96]

DD

Amen to your last:ok:

[Rigga]

I'm afraid you've all missed the point that it doesn't matter who your Bosses are, or what they want! - It's the Airport Bosses, and Police, that don't want the aggro, and don't want your uniforms!

[doubledolphins]

Funny, but when the proverbial hits the fan, they will need us.

[airborne_artist]

Airport Bosses, and Police, that don't want the aggro, and don't want your uniforms

ISTR that BAA were more than happy for the boys in green to patrol outside LHR soon after 9/11, despite the fact that a Scimitar CVR(T) would be a poor counter-terrorist weapons platform.

Many years ago my Squadron (green, not cavalry, not signals, so work it out..) used to travel down the M4 to the land of the sheep quite frequently. The service station staff used to welcome us, and I'm certain that the lady dishing out the chips gave us all an extra portion. On one occaision there were some thugs scrapping in the car park and the duty manager asked us to go and sort it out as the Bill were miles away. Luckily it just took a few hard stares and they scuttled away.

[Tigs2]

Rigga
It doesnt matter what the airport bosses and the police want. CDS sits on the primeministers board. If he told them that we can wear uniform, then we could wear uniform. The more people that wear uniform in public places, the less chance of any type of attack.

This is really becoming a bee in my bonnet now. I have recieved a preliminary reply from David Cameron on this subject. I will post his reply as soon as i get it. All i want is the right for a serviceman (or woman) to choose whether they want to wear uniform or not.

[teeteringhead]

The service station staff used to welcome us, and I'm certain that the lady dishing out the chips gave us all an extra portion..and there's still one or two on the M4 (near to the Plain) that'll give 20% off the food bill with a military ID...:)

Almost makes eating the food worth it :(

[[email protected]]

my Squadron (green, not cavalry, not signals, so work it out..)
Ah, Engineers then. :}

[[email protected]]

Policy at the last flying station in the West Mids is not to wear flying kit outside camp. Is this a Crab-wide rule, or is it just a local-ism? I often see trafficers and adminers (and a few in green gear) in the town shops (almost always sans headgear), so what's the deal when aircrew aren't to be seen in their working dress? Preferably with head gear to make the uniform complete (must be something to do with crabs and hair styles :ugh: ).

[airborne_artist]

Ah, Engineers then. Do I look like I get all excited about Bailey bridges? Well spotted. Used to have an RE beret for those "grey man" moments, though.

[[email protected]]

Used to have an RE beret for those "grey man" moments, though.

I've got a darkish blue beret for just the same thing.

[fightingchickenplumb]

Policy at the last flying station in the West Mids is not to wear flying kit outside camp. Is this a Crab-wide rule, or is it just a local-ism? I often see trafficers and adminers (and a few in green gear) in the town shops (almost always sans headgear), so what's the deal when aircrew aren't to be seen in their working dress? Preferably with head gear to make the uniform complete (must be something to do with crabs and hair styles :ugh: ).

To be fair on that my camp wont let techies wear our overalls outwith our workplace,even on Q duties, whilst aircrew saunter where ever they feel in flying suits

[C130 Techie]

On a rare occasion yesterday I needed to go into the local Tescos in uniform on the way home from work. The looks from some of the other customers suggested that I may have been an alien/contagious/a piece of sh1t on their shoe. Yet no one batted an eyelid at those wearing filthy painters/workmans overalls and the local chavs with acres of flab hanging out.

I know I probably shouldn't be surprised but it does make me wonder sometimes.

I also note that on the Lyneham village website discussion forum the local busy bodies have taken to "scruffy airman" bashing. These are the same people who are supposedly worried sick that Lyneham will close and their village will be ruined.

[Climebear]

Policy at the last flying station in the West Mids is not to wear flying kit outside camp. Is this a Crab-wide rule, or is it just a local-ism? I often see trafficers and adminers (and a few in green gear) in the town shops (almost always sans headgear), so what's the deal when aircrew aren't to be seen in their working dress? Preferably with head gear to make the uniform complete (must be something to do with crabs and hair styles :ugh: ).
Crab wide rule is for No1 or No 2 dress only in public Wearing of Uniform in Public (UK) (QR 199)
0110. All RAF personnel at UK units should normally wear civilian clothes when they are not required for duty. However, unless otherwise ordered, No 1 and No 2 uniform modes may be worn routinely in public, on public transport, on foot or in private transport.
Hence why have to revert to blues (No2 dress) from my normal work rig of CS95 (No 3 dress) whenever I get the train up to Cranditz
Oh and if they are sans headgear they should be told to put it on by anyone with sufficient seniority (or by any WO irrespective of the seniority of the slack ....) irrespective of service. Unless, of course, they happen to be aircrew on the Crew Bus at a secret airbase in Northern Scotland (see another current thread);)

[vecvechookattack]

I'm afraid you've all missed the point that it doesn't matter who your Bosses are, or what they want! - It's the Airport Bosses, and Police, that don't want the aggro, and don't want your uniforms!


No its not.....Its your boss that matters.










She's called Elizabeth and lioves in Windsor if anyone wants to contact her

[BellEndBob]

Uniform is one thing. Scruffy, baggy flying overalls festooned with boyscout badges covering different coloured T-shirts and worn by overweight 'cabin crew' is quite another issue. :=

[Roadster280]

ISTR that BAA were more than happy for the boys in green to patrol outside LHR soon after 9/11, despite the fact that a Scimitar CVR(T) would be a poor counter-terrorist weapons platform.

ISTR that they wanted the green uniforms, not the tracked black'n'green transport. The question was rapidly asked "Well what the hell did you expect them to turn up in?"

Many years ago my Squadron (green, not cavalry, not signals, so work it out..)

Engineers? AAC? RCT? RTR (they ain't cav!)?

I'm only joshing. Your handle gives it all away. As I am sure you well know ;)

Edited to add: Your brethren of the "non Artist" type robbed us bleep types of our berets in Bos so they wouldn't look quite so conspicuous. Only thing is, they failed to recognise that us bleep types don't normally go around tooled up to the nines!

[airborne_artist]

Your brethren of the "non Artist" type robbed us bleep types of our berets in Bos so they wouldn't look quite so conspicuous.

You might be surprised to note that a large %ge of those in Bos were not full-time hooligans.

[Sunfish]

Way back when during Vietnam, I got stopped a few times by the police on my way to the mess in town late at night. As soon as they saw I was in uniform it was 'off you go then"

[Roland Pulfrew]

The more people that wear uniform in public places, the less chance of any type of attack.


Tigs I quite agree with you but the problem here stems from the very top. Several years ago when I was working in the "Ivory Towers" on Whitehall I asked my boss why I couldn't wear uniform in the 'centre', afterall I had been lucky enough to travel to the MODs of the US, France, Spain and Italy as part of my job and in all places I wore uniform and nobody batted an eyelid. The reply was that it would make the MOD too much of a terrorist target. This made me mad so I pulled out my A to Z and pointed out that the MOD was marked as "Ministry of Defence" on the Whitehall page!! So a self respecting terrorist of any background won't just look us up in the A to Z and me wearing uniform makes the building a bigger target?????:ugh:

At one set of leaving drinks I asked a VVSO whether he would be encouraging a change and a move towards wearing of uniform in his next post. His reply was "No - the Civil Serpents wouldn't like it". So C*S bows to pressure from civil serpents because they like us to be anonymous ad we all have to be pink and fluffy about being "inclusive" and not elitist!! When and if the MOD goes to the wearing of uniform in London we might just start reminding the politicians that we do existand that we should be supported properly. My answer - wear your uniform with pride, smartly and correctly at all opportunities. Remind them, politicians, civil servants and the general public, that we do exist (but for god sake don't let linies downtown in their coveralls);) !!

[fightingchickenplumb]

Hey folks,

Just in case your intrested in regards to the medias coverage of the deaths in afghanistan of the two servicemen , having watched the BBC news i felt so appalled i wrote a snot-o-gram which i logged as an offical complaint with the BBC it read as follows:

Sir/Madam
I would like to draw your attention to what i feel is a injustice
perpetrated by the ten o clock news, I am both shocked,dismayed and
disgusted that the BBC seen fit to devote approximately six minutes and
the top priority to the story of Englands football captain resigning and
a mere two minutes covering the death of two of our this countries
servicemen. I apprexiate that this story may not have been the most
"sexiest" of stories however as a mark of respect the BBC could have
placed this story at the head of the programme, and as for the pitiful
amount of time spent covering the story, is a minute of air time each
all a servicemens life is worth to the BBC?

Regards

xxxxx


Two days later I recieved this reply:

Thank you for your e-mail.

Your concerns that you felt it was inappropriate to lead BBC ONE News programmes
on 2 July with the resignation of David Beckham as England football captain have
been addressed by the Deputy Editor of Daytime News, Ben Rich, on the BBC's
"Editors" online site (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/ (javascript:ol('http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/');)). His response is
as follows:

"Sunday brought one of those editorial dilemmas that we often face.

In the early morning, news came through that two British soldiers had been
killed in Afghanistan. It led the bulletins on radio and television. At around
10.30am, David Beckham resigned as England football captain.

So which of these events should be at the top at lunchtime and later?

We know some of our viewers hate sports stories, and we were also aware that
these tragic deaths in Afghanistan were very important too. Equally, around a
third of the entire UK population watched England's World Cup quarter final, and
it was a huge national as well as sporting event.

Also, when two British soldiers died last week in Afghanistan we not only led
with it, but had a second report from one of our defence correspondents
analysing the controversy over the mission itself, and the equipment our troops
had been given to accomplish it, and another live interview. That previous
coverage was also part of our thinking.

For people who don't like sports stories, the choice would be clear. But if you
accept that the World Cup should be big news, the question is how big? In the
end we put David Beckham at the top, although I suspect even some of our team
thought it should have been the other way round. But then on the same day eight
people were killed in two separate road accidents, and two women were found
murdered at a massage parlour - where did those stories belong?

These sorts of choices confront us most days, and all you can do is weigh the
factors as best you can, and accept that there is more than one valid view on
what course was right."

Please be assured that your feedback has been fully registered on our daily
audience log which is made available senior BBC management.

Thank you, once more, for taking the time to contact the BBC.

Regards


BBC Information


IMHO folks it still shows a lack of respect and sensetivity from the Beeb


I await any Comments

[pulse1]

I have always enjoyed seeing representatives of the armed forces in uniform at Wimbledon. I have no idea if this is a perk or a duty but it seems right that they should be seen as important and accepted at British institutions such as Wimbledon. I hope that it is a perk and that they want to be there and are not there just as cheap security.

Although I didn't see any of them get involved when the streaker appeared the day before yesterday, there seemd to be quite a few Green Berets on the court yesterday when two comedians tried to play tennis on the centre court.

[Confucius]

Although I didn't see any of them get involved when the streaker appeared the day before yesterday, there seemd to be quite a few Green Berets on the court yesterday when two comedians tried to play tennis on the centre court.

Maybe the streaker was a Green Beret....

[johno617tonka]

IIRC wimbledon is a perk of sorts, but, you have to use your own leave and sort out own accomodation if you are from units outside sufficient travelling time!!

so would you call it a perk???? i suppose if you 'LOVE' tennis then yes! but i would hazard a guess ('cause i never watch it!) that you would use a fair amount of leave up being there!!

regards

J6T

[South Bound]

Never could understand the attraction of stewarding the general public around, seems a bit servile to me.

The guys get paid an allowance (about £60 per day) to work there. But they have to take leave and it only really works out in your favour if you can find somewhere cheap to stay locally.

[johno617tonka]

like i say.... you would have to LOVE:p tennis:zzz: to do it!

[bigmac69]

A few years back, i stepped off the Tristar, into the relatively fresh, clean air of home, thinking wow i can't believe i'm back and back safely with nothing more than sunburn. I duly changed into some clean civvies, splash of Brut, and made my way for an onward connecting flight at Stansted. Only those who have been there know how comforting and almost surreal the feeling of being 'Back Home' is, nothing could get me down, including the heaving airport and half mile queue to check in.

I smiled at the pretty girl at the check in desk, (A sight for sore eyes, i can tell you ;) ), who promptly told me that my baggage was 4 kilos too heavy and i had to pay at, "the other desk over there"...."What, the one with the huge queue?"...."Yeah, thassit". Nice one, slapped back to reality...Firmly, Welcome home, (Maybe the Brut was a bad idea).

Conversely, i travelled to the US recently, got 50% off a swanky Miami hotel room, 10% and 20% off at various sport shops and even got up the Empire State Building for free.

I'm proud to be British, but God bless America!! ;)

[johno617tonka]

sorry to hear of your 'mistreatment' by a member of the british public!! it all sort of echoes what's been posted in the last few pages!

it's basically laughable that...EVEN wearing brut, you are still treated so poorly on return to 'blighty'.. do you think that a 'clean pressed uniform' would of made any difference though? i used to work at a major uk airport and know for a fact that (in those days anyway!) the check in staff got a slice of any excess baggage they 'did' someone for, so unless you came across some young filly that was a real 'man in uniform' freak, i still would of thought you would be a few quid lighter....


you mention our american friends, and i totally agree that they really know how to look after not only their own, but us too!


i went to LA from Las Vegas once and we got treated to '2 flights for the price of one!' now ok i realise that it was maybe still more expensive than some of our own 'budget airlines' but this was well before their conception..


we even used to get ' anything for a dollar in mcdonalds'.... plate fulls i tell you!!!!


oh well, as someone else has said, the guys and girls in uniform these days have absolutely no chance from anything even remotely like what they would get from our US friends...

regards

J6T

[FFP]

I'm proud to be British, but God bless America!! ;)

Wondered who the one person was that's proud to be British . . . . ..

I think our country sucks. And yes, I am leaving it too. There just seems to be no pride left. Everyone out to stiff each other, customer service that sucks beyond belief and taxed through the nose.

Plus pikeys with England flags and no air con :p . . .. . . .

[movadinkampa747]

it's basically laughable that...EVEN wearing brut, you are still treated so poorly on return to 'blighty'..

Treated poorly, mistreated? Maybe the Girl was just doing her job. Was she rude to you in anyway bigmac? All UK/US airlines have an excess baggage charge.

[johno617tonka]

There just seems to be no pride left
there is my friend!! i think the people with pride are currently in the 'sandier' places (or justback/waiting to go!) of the world.....
the people with the flags, are at BEST simply very misguided in what they understand the word patriotic means....
i would hazard a guess that you wont be treated 'fantastically' well wherever you emigrate to... the world as a whole is as you so well put it;
Everyone out to stiff each other, customer service that sucks beyond belief
you do sound very bitter in the way you seem to have been treated, and i hope you find your dream world....
regards
J6T

[johno617tonka]

yes maybe she was 'just' doing her job? i myself have travelled with excess baggage and when explained why it was 'excess' it was happily waived through....:ok:
like i say i worked on the ramp at a uk airport, and the staff there were only interested in one thing..... bumping their wages up better than the next person... some of them were down right shameless in their admission on how ruthless they were....:eek:
my point is that yeah she maybe was only doing her job, but it could be argued that our friend bigmac had been doing his bit to allow her the freedoms that she is used to, and was probably only expecting to be cut a bit of slack on his return.... christ, the guy says it was only 4KG......:ugh:

[movadinkampa747]

I doubt somehow she would get a bonus for sending some to pay for excess baggage. You intimated that he was somehow poorly mistreated. How did you come to this conclusion.
So what was your excuse to get away with paying excess baggage?

[johno617tonka]

my 'EXCUSE' was that i had been away somewhere not very nice for a fair amount of time, and in my opinion the excess was military kit.... the person i spoke to was fine with that and off i went....
and at manchester in the late nineties the handling agents/airlines were paying to the check in staff a percentage of any excess bag charges....
basically i think the general idea of this tread is the way OUR boys and girls who have served abroad on operation ???????, basically seem to get little or no recognition from the british public

[FFP]

Not looking for a dream world jono, it's just that most places are better than Britain.

It's been said many times on here before, but most do this job not for their country anymore but for those around them that they work with.

[movadinkampa747]

The British public do give our troops recognition. Its the Government who dont give a stuff

[Tigs2]

Movadink
His other excuse was that he probably weighed 20kg less than the large lardy civvy bloke that was stood next to him at checkin.

[johno617tonka]

hello again tigs......
cheers for the back up.... i cant believe how difficult it is to convince people that OUR armed forces deserve a bit of respect here and there
J6T

[movadinkampa747]

"Cheers for the back up tigs........"hahahahhaha. Its like being in the playground. I am sure she did respect him as a paying customer. Perhaps he could have asked for a Military discount for the excess. Many American organisations give military discounts if you ask.

[FFP]

The British public do give our troops recognition. Its the Governmanet who dont give a stuff


I agree on the Govt bit, but don't necessarily agree on the public. Maybe the US is seen as OTT by some, but I've had random members of the public come up to me in a hotel lobby whilst in uniform saying " Just wanted to thank you for your service and let you know we are thinking of you"

I would say that's happened half a dozen or so times, which given the number of times I've been to the States over the last few years is a high hit rate of public affection.

Care to take a guess of the times that happens in the UK ? Square root of springs to mind.

Maybe someone else will post with positive experiences in this country.

Many will say "But we don't do that in the UK. It simply isn't British"

Fine. So how do we support our troops then ? If we don't speak to them and thank them in public, and we don't as a nation give them a financial "thank you" at retailers, if we don't give those serving abroad more minutes to call home than THOSE IN PRISON get, and we don't let our boys walk through UK airports in uniform then what do we do ?

The military is something that is forgotten about till needed, forgotten about when the job is done and forgotten about when things don't quite go as planned. And that's fine. We do the job we get paid for and we get on with it.
And we get embarressed when we see how other nations look after their boys.

[movadinkampa747]

Oh dear ffp. Are you feeling a little down because the public will not say thankyou for your efforts? Many retailers in the UK offer the armed forces discounts.
The telephone issue has nothing to do with the general public, its the government again.
Why would you want to walk about an airport in uniform after spending the last few months wearing it.
Do you walk upto Policemen, firefighters and Nurses and thank them for what they do? Somehow I doubt it.

[FFP]

And that's fine. We do the job we get paid for and we get on with it

So in short no, I don't get a little down because the public will not say thank you. Just pointing out your thrown away line about the public caring is arse.

As to discounts, are you referring to the ones that are in the discount brochure ? The ones that, certainly for people like BA, are more expensive than if you went on their website as Joe Public ?

The last time in was in hospital I did make a point of thanking the nurses. Last time I saw firefighters they were picketing the station from which my boys were trying to do their job.

But regardless, they do deserve thanking. Thought this thread was about the military though .. . .

Or shall we talk about the lack of support for the cheesemakers while we are at it ?

[FFP]

Why would you wnat to walk about an airport in uniform after spending the last few months wearing it.

While we're at it . . .


Why would you and the rest of your sqn want to go to the toilets and change because of some jobsworth when all you want to do is get home ASAP after being away for so long ?

[GeeRam]

So how do we support our troops then ? If we don't speak to them and thank them in public

Ever increasing cuts has hampered this.

For example for 2/3 weeks every summer you had the Royal Tournament at Earls Court which was a prime opportunity for a good bit of mil/public bonding.

No more because of cuts.

How many RAF At Home days are there now?
Just Waddington and Leuchars??.....:sad:

[movadinkampa747]

The thread is about whose idea it was to not allow memebrs of the armed forces to wear uniform in airports. That doens't mean the public dont care about the armed forces, try looking at the MFATW website and there you will see much support for our soldiers.
We all know the discount book is not very good. The BA discount for the armed forces is based on the full airfare price and as such would make it more expensive than if you got it from a discount website. Maybe when you get to canada you will be treated better.

[SmilingKnifed]

Do you walk upto Policemen, firefighters and Nurses and thank them for what they do? Somehow I doubt it.

Are they routinely mortared in the course of a working day?

As an aside from the appalling treatment meted out to the Armed Forces in this country there is a the point that travelling in uniform is good for the forces too. I've travelled several times on trains crowded with misbehaving squaddies (generally drunken young 17 year olds fresh from the ATRs, I accept that the overwhelming majority of squaddies/matelots are perfectly fine). It could be difficult wearing civvies (even as a commissioned officer) to tell them to calm down without backchat or general abuse. Putting everyone in uniform would;

a) Encourage a little pride in the uniform/individual cap badge and help prevent bad behaviour

b) Make any minority who did want to act up very easy to root out for punishment later

c) Identify Offrs/NCOs as a warning not to act up.

Just my two penneth worth.

[C130 Techie]

The military stewards at Wimbledon were mentioned a little earlier.

We also supply stewards from all services to each Lords Test Match (2 a year). It is run on a similar line to the Wimbledon deal, ie take leave and get an allowance for food and accommodation.

I have done it 3 times now, staying at the Victory Services Club. Its a great 4 or 5 days (if you like cricket of course). Its becoming more popular as more people find out about it and therefore more difficult to get in.

Obviously it's done in uniform, working dress (Short sleeved shirt and SD hat for the RAF) and in general is well received by the public although you always get the odd exeption.

Anything that raises the awareness of the armed forces in the public eye has got to be good surely.

Oh and Lords don't allow flags at all:ok:

[mutleyfour]

This thread is no longer just about uniform at UK Airports...Its now addressing the complete lack of responsibility this Government takes for sending its men and women into danger. In the last couple of weeks soldiers have been killed every couple of days and yet all I see on my TV today is 7/7. I don't mean to take anything away from the those who lost family and friends last year but why is a life that is given to prevent such further attrocities brushed under the carpet by the bulk of the media as simply a young man doing his job!

Yes we all sign on to do our duty but I certainly expect a little more respect for what I do, more often than not without thought as to the consequences.

Its time.....time to wake up Mr Blair and take responsibility. Attend some funerals, speak to the widows and children left behind. Show the nation you do care. Show the nation that you don't just throw our lives away without due care. Show the nation that your position comes second to whats good and right for your country.

[Pristina]

MightyGem (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=4330) vbmenu_register("postmenu_2692624", true);

:ok:
Thanks for reminding me what the difference is between how we are perceived and the US forces. I know it is only an advert, but it is what we are missing...someone who appreciates what we do.

[movadinkampa747]

Are they routinely mortared in the course of a working day?


No...............but read this

"Emergency crews in Notts are facing unprecedented levels of violence. The number of attacks on firefighters has nearly doubled in the past year - with two being hospitalised in the latest incident. And East Midlands Ambulance staff are threatened or attacked almost every day.

In the first eight months of the year there were 215 reported incidents, compared with only 14 in a whole year a decade a go.

Paramedics are now being given stab-proof jackets and CCTV in their vehicles."

"Four out of five NHS nurses say they have been attacked or threatened at work, according to research.

A poll of 500 nurses carried out by YouGov for ITV’s Tonight with Trevor McDonald programme also found that one out of four nurses said they were considering quitting because of their fears over future assaults.

Nine out of 10 said they believed working in the NHS was riskier than other professions with one in four reporting that being threatened “is part of the job”.

Stop moaning about not getting any respect..........

[Roadster280]

I'm fortunate enough to live in the US, and here's a little story...

I was in a bar the other week, and got chatting to a guy in his 50s in there. He picked up on my accent (nondescript Forces one, but obviously English), and asked where I was from.

"The UK" replies I.
"Do you know the proper title of the UK?" says he.
"The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" says I.
"Wow, you're the first Brit I've ever met who knew that" says he.
"Well, I was in the Army for 10 years, it's the least I could do" says I.
"So you're a veteran. Have a drink on me, and thanks for all that you've done".

He then proceeds to introduce me to his friends, and though I offered, I didn't buy another drink that night. I felt honoured, even though it was they who were honouring me.

Funny old thing, every time I come back through immigration, I make a point of thanking them for keeping the bad guys out and keeping me safe.

I just wish it was the same in the UK.

[D-IFF_ident]

I have spent a little time in the US recently and every other person or car sports either a 'Support our Troops', or 'POW/MIA' t-shirt or bumper sticker. I have also witnessed a number of times a civilian stop a uniformed serviceman/woman in the street and shake their hand, saying 'thank you for your service'.

I'm going back to the UK for a while now too, and I fully expect to be spat on when I wear my uniform in public.

Bearing in mind how much the public are influenced by the media, be it CNN or Eastenders, I can see where the support for each nations troops differs. And should we get more support back home then Joe Public would be more willing to also see his tax monies being spent on essential equipment.

It all comes down to the backing of our respective governments. In my opinion.

[Roadster280]

I fully expect to be spat on when I wear my uniform in public.


That makes me want to vomit. Outf***ingrageous. I hope, God forbid, if it does happen, you either:

Beat the living daylights out of them for besmirching the Queen's uniform (preferable)

or

Have the police charge them (less preferable)

Either way, it makes me sick. Why the hell should you have to put up with this?

[bigmac69]

[quote=D-IFF_ident]

I'm going back to the UK for a while now too, and I fully expect to be spat on when I wear my uniform in public.

This sadly did happen to my team and i whilst we took on the role of the firemen during the strikes. In our own country. I could never quite work out why, when all we were doing was protecting their lives whilst the fireman argued about money.

That is not a slur to the fireman, i believe they do a wonderful job, as do all of the emergency services. You do not deserve to be treated like that. Nor do we, we all deserve to wear our uniforms with pride, knowing that what we are doing, is for us, our families, our friends and the life that we all enjoy when out of those uniforms.

Mova, have a word, you have clearly got your stats from a reliable source, whilst i understand and appreciate every one of them, if the armed forces where to account for every hostile moment that they encountered throughout the world, on a daily basis, i'm sure that the numbers would be far more startling.

Regards.......BM69

[Selac66]

Do you really rate the accolades of the average US citizen? The bulk of the masses in the US are totally ignorant of what is really going on in the world and any approach by a member of the public there should be treated in the same way as the media people in the states would treat it - as the missive of a twelve year old.

[Ghostflyer]

The fact is that UK civilians don't really give a toss about the guys in uniform until their own interests are involved. I spent a few years in the states and they respect their servicemen and veterans in equal measure. It is regarded as a high honour to serve their country, in the UK most see it as just another job.

When you leave the mil in the UK you give your watch back, if you had one, and are then cut adrift. The yanks look after their vets until they die because they realise they owe a debt to those that have survived being in the service of their country. We take the piss out of the yanks about a lot of things but at least they recognise and respect those that were prepared to give the ultimate sacrifice.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't join the RAF out of a desire to serve the Queen, I just wanted to fly sharp pointy jets. I got my wish and because of the will of the Government (and the people) ended up in 2 wars. Now I see that I have less rights than a bunch of Afghan hijackers and Al Qaeda sympathisers.

A few weeks ago, someone asked the definiton of the term 'bluntie' Well, a bluntie is someone that believes that a serviceman or woman in unifrom would upset the civilians when they return from doing their duty. They should either get a case of perspective or failing that put the guy that wrote the order on the firing range and see if he or she can dodge Kalashnikov bullets!

Back in my box!:zzz:

[brickhistory]

Do you really rate the accolades of the average US citizen? The bulk of the masses in the US are totally ignorant of what is really going on in the world and any approach by a member of the public there should be treated in the same way as the media people in the states would treat it - as the missive of a twelve year old.

Sorry for the thread creep about to occur, but...

And this drive-by insult is based on your knowledge of all 300 million of us? You can attest to the maturity of us all? And if so, are we, the unwashed masees really so different from the smaller masses, but just as unwashed, of your green and pleasant land?

It is a shame that the UK military is, from reading this thread, not appreciated as they should be. I am glad that at least some of my countrymen have thanked some of you for your service. Too bad that you have to try and take the joy out of that simple act.


Oh, and one more thing, "Na, na, na, nah, nah!" :ok:

[bushbolox]

Been out of the mob for 23 yrs. Remember a transit on exercise that meant getting from euston to victoria. 150 sappers in combats, fighting order, slrs(unloaded) with a group warrant using the under ground was a great sight. Bit like the germans thru sweden. The waves of commuters just parted like the first guy was moses. I used to do all my travel in uniform hitchhiking. The uniform guarenteed better relaibility than anyother form of transport. It wasnt banned IRA or no Ira. I even had a chap come upto me and call them all bastartds when airey neave was murdered, shook my hand and walked off.
This country is on its arse., and that arse needs an enema.

[Sunray Minor]

DPSA...
What a crap country we live in where the very people that protect a population's freedom of speech/religion/political extremes are not safe to wear ones work clothes out of work.


I think you'll find by and large the public does respect the military (the very military they pay for through taxes on every hour they work). Unfortunately, the present conflict in Iraq has changed that - hopefully temporarily.

We did once embody the protection of "freedom of speech/religion/political extremes". Now our very involvement there has brought about direct attacks on British soil, which in return have resulted in draconian laws which REDUCE freedom of speech and political extremes.

Don't blame the public for not welcoming us with open arms. It's not their fault and it's not ours.

[cornwallis]

Perhaps if you all develop a case of the yelllow rash(hi viz jackets)you can wear what you want.Nobody is allowed to wear a hat at the loco's!

[Out Of Trim]

Whilst undergoing basic training at RAF Swinderby in June 1979 - We were allowed to travel off camp after about week three. We were inspected in our No1 Uniform and If we and our accomodation passed inspection, we were allowed a weekend pass and had to travel in said No1 Uniform.

Now whilst being proud to wear that uniform; It, at times could provoke some strange looks and comments from passers by and of course the Northern Ireland troubles were ongoing at the time..

You can imagine my thoughts when alighting from an Underground train in Central London, and being confronted by a group of approximately 30 punk rockers complete with died mohican hairstyles etc and the only way out from the platform was to walk through the lot of them!

Strangely enough - not one of them said a word!

I left the RAF 15 years ago - but I still feel an affiliation for all Servicemen and am glad to see them around.

The persons responsible for not allowing Servicemen to wear their uniforms whilst travelling through Airports should hang their head(s) in shame.

[BEagle]

I well remember stumbling out of the Wig and Mitre ('No. 2 Mess, RAF Lincoln') 30 years ago only to see a number of youngsters from Swinderby walking the town in not-very-well fitting best blue. It all seemed quite normal and most welcome to the locals.....










...who probably well remembered events of some 35 years earlier?

[movadinkampa747]

.......................................:mad:

[RayDarr]

Folks,
Came on this thread by chance. I work at a large airport near west London, and can tell you all that the idea that we do not want servicemen to wear uniform in our terminals is complete bulls**t. While some moron of a mover may well have said this over the PA system at Brize, this is not the policy of the BAA (Funny how most movers have the capacity to talk out of their arse!! I wonder if the RAF recruit them for this??).We regularly see uniformed servicemen around either passing through. or collecting/dropping people off, and long may it continue.
At this point I would point out that earning cash is the main purpose of my lot, and all the airlines. Therefore, we don't give a stuff what you wear, as long as you spend your money with us. In fact even if you don't want to spend your money, we have made it so difficult to access our airports, and that we are bound to screw you for something or other.
Someone seems to think airports are a soft target. I would not however suggest you try to put this to the test. You should remember that the security you see is the visible tip of the iceburg. It's the stuff you can't see that should worry you. This is, I expect the reason why my wonderful company charge so much. Security is verrrrry expensive.
There are a large number of ex military people working at my airport, from all 3 services including myself. I have yet to meet one who wasn't proud of their service, and who won't go out of their way to help an obvious serviceman if they can. However, there are about 40,000 people "working" here, and most have no knowledge of the armed forces at all, and little interest in finding out. This can only be changed by giving our armed forces a higher profile. Perhaps we should insist that you all wear uniform in public rather than try to prevent it.

[Stumpy1000]

Nice post RayDarr.

[jonny5]

MovaDink,
I am not quite sure what your problem is but the general public do not appreciate us and they need to be reminded that we actually fight for them, whether thay think so or not. You cannot be military with comments like you have posted so go back to civvy street and get a life!:mad:

[Rocket Chucker]

I have just stumbled onto this thread.

In '82 when we had our little squabble with the Argies we moved from RAFG to UK on a civvy flight from Wildenrath to Luton before embarking at Brize for a luxury transfer to Ascension on a VC-10 (in full DPM and webbing less muskets). The passengers and staff at Luton were magnificent - not quite the round of applause situation on the video linked to in this thread but not far off.

Return flight not much different - apart from upsetting HM C&E at Brize when we turned up with weapons (made safe) and ammunition (in magazines/popuches) a few months later. I think they wanted us through the airport ASAP owing to the pervading body odour - once our weapons and ammunition had been removed and properly packed for transit.

I'm ashamed to think that this situation exists. The guys (and girls) who are out on 'peace keeping' duties throughout the various regions of the planet should know we are proud of them and greatly appreciate what they are doing whether we agree with the politics behind it or not.
:D :D :D :D :D

The people who make these rules should be ashamed of themselves.
:= :=

[PPRuNeUser0139]

Quick diversion off-thread..
Beagle's mention of the Wig reminded me that one of the wives at Waddo thought the Wig & Mitre was actually the Wigan Mitre.. But apart from that, the Wig was one of the great pubs of England.. Never managed to find a pub since moving away with that perfect blend of ease, comfort, great food & wine and a remarkably low prole factor. The new Wig is OK but nowhere near as comfortable as the original.
And now back to our regular programming.
sv

[movadinkampa747]

MovaDink,
I am not quite sure what your problem is but the general public do not appreciate us and they need to be reminded that we actually fight for them, whether thay think so or not. You cannot be military with comments like you have posted so go back to civvy street and get a life!:mad:
http://jm.g.free.fr/smileys/picts/animated-Sad03.gif
Oh dear the british public dont like me and I am a big rufty tufty RAF Officer.
Well it aint good enough and I wont stand for it.
http://logo.cafepress.com/2/2874214.582372.jpg

[jonny5]

Mov,
you really need to grow up and learn to live with your bitterness. Perhaps you were rejected by the forces and that is why you dont like us? And it really doesnt bother me personally that the public behave as they do but when we really are needed will their attitudes change? I think so, give us some support now or you may not get the help expected later on!:=

[LeanMe]

http://jm.g.free.fr/smileys/picts/animated-Sad03.gif
Oh dear the british public dont like me and I am a big rufty tufty RAF Officer.


If anything proves he's never served this quote does... these individuals simply don't exist.

[movadinkampa747]

Mov,
you really need to grow up and learn to live with your bitterness. Perhaps you were rejected by the forces and that is why you dont like us? And it really doesnt bother me personally that the public behave as they do but when we really are needed will their attitudes change? I think so, give us some support now or you may not get the help expected later on!:=
http://www.cybergifs.com/nature/fishing.gif
I tell you what I am going back to that bait shop. This little fish just keeps coming back.:ok:

[FFP]

Ok enough .. . enough !

Mova,

You need to stop posting here now because you have become annoying.
Being a c0ck and then pretending you've been fishing isn't washing.

Come back when you've got a clue.

[jonny5]

Yep i will bite, then drag you and your sorry ass rod into the lake and drown you!:mad:

[RayDarr]

Hi folks,
Still being rude to each other and dragging down the conversation I see. If you keep bing naughty I will have to send you to your room without and dinner. That will teach you!!!

This whole thread was started as the result of some mover making a PA call. No one seems to be interested on what authority the mover made his statement. I am sure he was working outside his brief, and was making it all up (Average military bloke tends to do what he's told to do). I can assure you all that there is no instruction in place at my wonderful airport (Big one west of London remember??) to discourage servicemen visiting us in uniform. We don't care what you wear. All we ask is that you spend as much of your money as possible while you are with us.
The average Brit has never taken the servicemen to his heart so don't be surprised that the man in the street dosen't give a stuff about us (I am a reservist, and have been back in uniform fairly recently). I have been mistaken for an RAC patrolman and a Traffic Warden while in uniform, only because we servicemen just don't wear uniform in public, so the average Brit has no idea what he is looking at. The only way round this is to get in the public eye as much as possible. This is not only a top level decision, but must be followed through at unit and individual levels. It's a lot more than Air Shows and the "Dead Sparrows" blasting holes in the sky. Trouble is, I don't think there is a will at any level above the shop floor to do anything about it.
The last generation to understand the military were the last National Servicemen. All now in the mid 60's or older, they endured their 2 years in uniform, much of which was wasted effort on their part and that of the services they were in. However, almost all look back on their time with pride, all remember their service number, and many on reflection, thank the services for teaching them self reliance, self discipline and pride in their appearance if not much else. Maybe we need to bring back something of this sort again. Some pipe dream that is!!!

[mutleyfour]

Perhaps Mova is the very Mover whom started all this old bag of b0llox in the first place, by announcing to all and sundry at Brize they couldnt fly onward in uniform.

[Jimlad1]

The movers also announce it very clearly in BAS when you're on flights back to the UK.

[mutleyfour]

Got the perfect get around, wear someone elses uniform! At least then you can say "I'm not wearing my uniform" when asked.

[nice castle]

If one feels strongly about wearing uniform, crack on. Better to ask for forgiveness than permission after all. A bollocking is only a bollocking if you listen.

If you prefer to keep your occupation under wraps, due to threat of terror etc then do just that, and change into civvies.

Yes, ideally, the world would be a free and lovely place where we can stroll proudly around in uniform, and yes, I don't like faceless rubber backed folk nibbing me about this kind of crap either.

But both cases are with us, so make your choice and crack on.

Points/questions? (Is it only me who finds this argument quite easy to decipher?)

[mutleyfour]

Points/questions? (Is it only me who finds this argument quite easy to decipher?)


Maybe you havent indeed worked it out at all. You see its not only about wearing uniform or not in Airports but more the complete disguise of who we are and what we are doing as in order for Joe Public to forget the Governments complete lack of support.

Or maybe I misread (At least I read them!!) all the previous posts????????

[movadinkampa747]

Got the perfect get around, wear someone elses uniform! At least then you can say "I'm not wearing my uniform" when asked.
I guess you like wearing other mens clothing then? Or is it the womens uniform you want to wear? Is it David during the week and Susan at weekends? Are you a Navigator?:eek:

[mutleyfour]

Are you a Navigator?:eek:

Nope, I'm a Lumberjack! oh and I'm OK, I work all night and I sleep all day!

[MyEdUrts]

In response to why are military personnel not allowed to wear uniform on flights from civil airports see JSP800 Passenger Travel Instructions Ch2 sect 18 para 2.2.18.012. Hence the Movers at Brize are only carrying out instructions as laid down by S02 Passenger policy DTMA. I have also seen letters from 2 major civil airports that military passengers use, saying that they do not want military personnel to wear uniform so as to reduce the military profile at these airports. Which you can understand given that these personnel could well have personal weapons if coming from Iraq or Afg. Although a hessian wrapped SA80 still looks like an SA80!! Joe public could feel a bit nervy if the guy at their check-in desk is in full military garb and SA80.

Whilst I agree with the many posts made here that we should be proud to wear our uniform in public. Our masters have dictated that this should not be at civilian airports if you are a passenger.

It could be an antiquated ruling from the past that has not been updated and they have got the civil airports to agree to this. Who knows?

So there it is in black and white like it or lump it.

[BEagle]

"Hence the Movers at Brize are only carrying out instructions as laid down by S02 Passenger policy DTMA."

Hardly a particularly grand fromage, je would pense?

Und ja, Befehl ist Befehl und must be obeyed vizout kvestions, mein Fuehrer....

To get the stupid rule sorted you need to involve a grown up and put forward a strong case to change it.

"I have also seen letters from 2 major civil airports that military passengers use, saying that they do not want military personnel to wear uniform so as to reduce the military profile at these airports."

Name them and shame them - piss or get off the pot!

[Twonston Pickle]

Which you can understand given that these personnel could well have personal weapons if coming from Iraq or Afg. Although a hessian wrapped SA80 still looks like an SA80!! Joe public could feel a bit nervy if the guy at their check-in desk is in full military garb and SA80.


No-one should be travelling with a weapon without the appropriate permission, which most personnel will certainly not get for civvy flights! The most used method is for weapons to be deposited at Brize, leaving the guys n' gals to be picked up and away for PODL. Ergo, uniform at civvy airports should still not cause any problems. Besides, why would our own countrymen be worried about us having a rifle here in the UK? Surely we would be an asset in the war on terrorism? :yuk:

[Grecians]

Yes the JSP 800 clearly states no uniform! I can speak from first hand that I saw an army lad wandering thru LHR in desert uniform carrying bergen, body armour etc. The eyes of every passenger were on this individual and actually parted (like the waves) when he walked past. Weapons or no weapons, why compromise your security and that of our British public for the sake of a pair of jeans and tee shirt. If these pax had to move from the Gulf by commercial means, would you think they would travel in uniform, I think not! So rest my case. Its not a stupid request that the "Movers" ask pax change into civvies, its common sense. So give them a break. They have a job to do just like us!

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Err; the point being? They frighten the wildlife?

[November4]

Here we go yet again.......

Someone says the Movers are carrying out instructions and BEagle comes up with his mock German accent insinuating that they are similar to concentration camp guards yet again! :D

SAC Mover gets told to read out an instruction from SO2 Pax Pol (Sqn Ldr last time I checked). SAC Mover says "Oh I think thats a bit stupid maybe I will question that instruction......"

Yeah right I am sure there are enough Sqn Ldrs (and ex Sqn Ldrs) on here who would really take kindly to being asked why by an SAC.

Oh yes...yes.... I forget you would ALL take the time to explain to the SAC :eek:

Don't have a go at the SAC Movers - have a go at the commissioned Suppliers who try to run the trade.

Ah but they might answer back on equal terms though.





Surprised Enumbers has resurrected his Movs v ALM pages yet.

[niknak]

The fact is that if you wear uniform in the civilian environment, you draw attention to yourself and like it or not, that makes you a potential target.

That said, it doesn't really matter because the vast majority of military personnel, regardless of rank, could wear uniform, pink pajamas or nothing at all and, in the civillian environment, they still become very obvious after a very short period of time.

Sorry chaps, you must try harder, like it or not, those who may be out to harm you know that too.

[Roamer]

Totally outrageous.

As if the overstretched, underfunded forces don't have enough buggering about as it is, for some faceless pratt to have decided that they may not be seen in uniform in a UK airport is scandalous.

This policy MUST BE ****CANNED NOW!!

That commercial pretty well sums things up - the contrast between the way the US treats its forces and the way the UK MoD does......

But "he"..maybe "she" probably got a gong out of it...these days aircrew are fine to get gongs for OOA (specific telic) but groundcrew dont...cause the 2 months away from their family EVERY year dont cont !

[Roamer]

Those are actual US soldiers in the commercial, but you will notice their uniforms were devoid of any insignia. The commercial was shown during the 2005 Super Bowl, and was ranked as the best ad among the nearly 60 shown during the game.

Land of the Free, Home of the Brave...

Cheers! M2

BUT...we now the UK armed forces are now wearing extra insignia...what the hell does it mean...no one knows.....as the yanks we will end up with arm fulls of badges but still no-one in charge.....

[Tigs2]

Insignia or not
Hell of an ad! A little bit better than 'Direct Insurance' or the like!

[Roamer]

But "he"..maybe "she" probably got a gong out of it...these days aircrew are fine to get gongs for OOA (specific telic) but groundcrew dont...cause the 2 months away from their family EVERY year dont cont !

Also i personally came through a base in an OOA loacation on the way to an a/c recovery and got sent on straight away...on our return about 3 days later we had to go through "normal" customs...did you pack your bag.,..yes about 3 days ago not had chance to open it !! Then we had to put our weapons through the scanner...they never asked if they were lethal plus i do not think they realised we all (there were 8 of us) had 2 full mags each on us when we boarded....it only takes 1 to looney and these days it happens all the time.

The armed force of the UK is limited and will soon be know as USRAF....pay me when it's true :-)

[Roamer]

Yes the JSP 800 clearly states no uniform! I can speak from first hand that I saw an army lad wandering thru LHR in desert uniform carrying bergen, body armour etc. The eyes of every passenger were on this individual and actually parted (like the waves) when he walked past. Weapons or no weapons, why compromise your security and that of our British public for the sake of a pair of jeans and tee shirt. If these pax had to move from the Gulf by commercial means, would you think they would travel in uniform, I think not! So rest my case. Its not a stupid request that the "Movers" ask pax change into civvies, its common sense. So give them a break. They have a job to do just like us!

Well said...just like a mover..like they aree sooo busy...jezzz

[Tigs2]

Roamer
similar post about putting your weapons through a scanner on 'why we hate RAF policemen'. Absolutely UNBELIEVABLE. Did they say 'Sir we have found a weapon in the scanner?? It beggars belief.


Grecian

Yes the JSP 800 clearly states no uniform! I can speak from first hand that I saw an army lad wandering thru LHR in desert uniform carrying bergen, body armour etc. The eyes of every passenger were on this individual and actually parted (like the waves) when he walked past. Weapons or no weapons, why compromise your security and that of our British public for the sake of a pair of jeans and tee shirt. If these pax had to move from the Gulf by commercial means, would you think they would travel in uniform, I think not! So rest my case. Its not a stupid request that the "Movers" ask pax change into civvies, its common sense. So give them a break. They have a job to do just like us!

The pax parted out of awe and respect, its only because we Brits are stiff, they didnt all start clapping. If i was there i would have started it for him. Why didnt you?? were you embarassed??

1. Not Worthy??
2. Never Been There??
3. Not Teeth Arm??

Frankly he has kohonurs the size of jupiter to walk through the terminal like that with his head up high! Let me shake his hand!!

[movadinkampa747]

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D There you go feel better now............:cool:

[Climebear]

But "he"..maybe "she" probably got a gong out of it...these days aircrew are fine to get gongs for OOA (specific telic) but groundcrew dont...cause the 2 months away from their family EVERY year dont cont !


A bit off the thread; but, no one (in the UK Armed Forces at least) has ever received campaign medals just for being away from home. The issue of a UK campaign medal (either a specific medal like Iraq or as a separate clasp/ribbon to a GSM/OSM like Afghanistan) and the approval to wear a foreign campaign medal (NATO/UN) is judged on the basis of the risk and rigour. Hence why those chaps in Basra, Kandahar etc (that are subject to regular presents from the indigenous population) qualify for the award of such medals whereas those who stay in places such as Al Udied (complete with Burger King, coffee bars and a bra-shaped entertainment area) don't.

[Roamer]

A bit off the thread; but, no one (in the UK Armed Forces at least) has ever received campaign medals just for being away from home. The issue of a UK campaign medal (either a specific medal like Iraq or as a separate clasp/ribbon to a GSM/OSM like Afghanistan) and the approval to wear a foreign campaign medal (NATO/UN) is judged on the basis of the risk and rigour. Hence why those chaps in Basra, Kandahar etc (that are subject to regular presents from the indigenous population) qualify for the award of such medals whereas those who stay in places such as Al Udied (complete with Burger King, coffee bars and a bra-shaped entertainment area) don't.

I agree to a point....i did a 4 monther in AAS ...got to come home half way through for a week (even if it was so badly organised i only spent 3 days at home !) ....i had a great time there with a good buch of lads and the locals were great....I never felt "at risk".

Now we go to Al Udied every 14 months for 2 months...no r&r and i feel more threathened by the yanks than i did in AAS...at least there they were stuck on the Rock !! Also the Bra bar is nothing to write home about...i wish it was alcohol free......

he only good thing like you said is the coffee shop !....but i doubt i could claim on JPA the $10 for coffee every day.

[SaddamsLoveChild]

A friend who has just transited out through here told me that the Civil Servants in the Embassy in Baghdad do not like servicemen wearing uniform at the embassy as 'it offends them'. It appears the airports arent the only ones that dont like uniforms in public. Suddenly I see the value of losing thousands of Civ Servs.

[Tigs2]

Saddamslovechild

Please tell your 'friend' to go over to the said Civil servant and politely say FU:mad: :mad: OFF!!! Tell the £15 000 to £35 000 (the best of them!) that are all non-combatent to F**K O*F and they earn a co*k wage.

[scroggs]

Yes the JSP 800 clearly states no uniform! I can speak from first hand that I saw an army lad wandering thru LHR in desert uniform carrying bergen, body armour etc. The eyes of every passenger were on this individual and actually parted (like the waves) when he walked past. Weapons or no weapons, why compromise your security and that of our British public for the sake of a pair of jeans and tee shirt. If these pax had to move from the Gulf by commercial means, would you think they would travel in uniform, I think not! So rest my case. Its not a stupid request that the "Movers" ask pax change into civvies, its common sense. So give them a break. They have a job to do just like us!

I shall use my Moderator's privileges to declare that you, Sir, are a **** of the first water.

I trust that you get great pleasure from your grasp of bureaucratic idiocies. The rest of us will continue to declare our admiration for, and pride in, our servicemen in uniform.

God, give me strength. :rolleyes: :hmm: :ugh:

[movadinkampa747]

ell the £15 000 to £35 000 (the best of them!) that are all non-combatent to F**K O*F and they earn a co*k wage.

Does that mean the because the majority of the Armed forces earn between 15000 - 35000 pounds that they earn a "c*ck wage" as you put it and are some sort of lower class?

[airborne_artist]

In about 1984 some of my colleagues arrived at LHR in a Puma after an evening's fun. Puma taxis to ramp outside a terminal, and the troop disembarks. But they didn't just get off, and saunter to the open door. They did a hot dismount, complete with defensive arc, AR16s at the ready...:E

By the time they were back at base the OCs phone line had melted :ok:

[WorkingHard]

SCROGGS - hear hear!

[South Bound]

Yep, good call. Will someone please explain to me how I am putting anyone in danger (especially myself) by wearing uniform in an airport. It is not common sense to get changed when there is no need - get a life Grecian

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Of course, if you're in DPM rig, how will they see you?

[MarkD]

These are UK subjects in UK uniform in a UK airport. I spent the early morning of Jan 1 2005 at Shannon Airport waiting for the early LHR in the duty free surrounded by not Irish service people but United States service personnel in desert fatigues buying celtic tat. Despite numerous complaints from locals the last I heard this was still the case, and that the manner in which the NCOs round them up to be boarded/get meals etc. is less than low key.

My personal opinion (as a civilian) is that military personnel have uniforms for a reason, and they are not dirt to be swept under a rug, to be transported around in closed vehicles like prisoners - if anything they should proceed through whatever passes for a VIP channel at a given airport as the local MP, alderman or dogcatcher probably does.

May I suggest that the next time a civ serv complains about military personnel wearing their prescribed clothing as in the example of the Baghdad embassy that a harassment complaint be raised? God knows they'd do it to the mil given have a chance - use their own weapons against them. Once you've sorted out government, then perhaps the private sector can be next.

[Reach]

A friend who has just transited out through here told me that the Civil Servants in the Embassy in Baghdad do not like servicemen wearing uniform at the embassy as 'it offends them'. It appears the airports arent the only ones that dont like uniforms in public. Suddenly I see the value of losing thousands of Civ Servs.

There's an easy fix for that. Have the civil servants move their office outside the Green Zone and well away from any servicemen. :}

[Maisiebabe]

I am currently based in Cornwall. I've never done a tour in this part of the uk before and its a small and little known unit. Every village and town has it's British Legion, which is well-used by the locals. On Rememberance Sunday nearly every village in the vicinity holds it's own parade, indeed my Unit provides an honour guard for 3 parades (two on the same day, which isn't bad for a unit of only 35 personnel) for Rememberance alone and another two for BoB. In total the Unit is represented at around 15-20 events of this kind every year. This is because the people of this county take great pride in their Armed Services, Cornwall has strong links with all three. I frequently wear my uniform to Tesco if I have to call in on the way home, although there has been a recent Security bulletin saying we should wear civvie jackets over the top. I have never been subjected to any kind of verbal abuse whilst in uniform. My point is that there are some regions where we are welcomed with respect and kindness, Norfolk is another although Kings Lynn and Thetford may be a bit dodgy!
In my opinion the media, and the BBC in particular, are responsible for the lack of awareness and general apathy towards the Armed Forces. They do not view us as an 'in' subject, not surprising given the political bias of the head honchos. I would like to challenge the BBC to host an Armed Forces only Question Time with Tony Blair and the respective ministers from each party on the panel. No high ranking officers allowed and no impact on career for anyone who wishes to have their say.
If enough of us badgered them about it maybe they'd do it.....not. :p

[mutleyfour]

Count me in, I'd gladly sign up to that!

[Comp Charlie]

Good evening,

I am currently employed to provide assistance to military passengers, their families, and MOD employees at the major London airports.

The main reason for our existence as a section is to help with passengers travelling as Compassionate Alpha or Bravo cases (despite popular and widespread belief there is NO SUCH thing as Comp Charlie in the British military)

The service we offer is, in my opinion, first class, and something the military should take great pride in. No matter whether you are a General or a Private soldier, you get the same treatment. Not many areas we can say that happens in are there? I sincerely hope none of you will ever have reason to use the system, or, if you have, you were impressed with the service given.

Other duties at these airports include contract monitoring of civilian airlines handling military pax, and PROVIDING HELP AND ASSISTANCE TO MILITARY PAX ENCOUNTERING PROBLEMS AT THE AIRPORT.

These problems are many and various. Sometimes it is not the passengers fault (the Unit or FMCC if in theatre could have let the passenger down for instance). More commonplace is Johnny Pongo being a fu*ckwit and not having a clue of basic details like the correct day he is flying, or even with which airline.

However, this is a seperate discussion. This topic is about uniform in UK civil airports. So lets have a look at the reasons why this policy exists.

As has already been stated, the first and foremost reason is because the JSP 800 states it. Which, to be honest, should be the end of discussion. The policy was approved at Sqn Ldr level (no doubt having been staffed a little higher than that). However, this is a discussion forum so lets ask why?

Despite posts here stating differently, it is not the case that BAA have enforced this policy on us. Or that ALL of the airlines that operate out of the UK insist on no uniform. But some of them have.

So, how do you legislate for that? If Johnny Pongo has a booking with, for instance, British Midland, his booking confirmation (if he ever got one) could state it is ok to travel in full uniform, but if he is booked through British Airways then he must travel in civvies? Impractical.

So, there is one good reason why there is a blanket ban on uniform. Wouldn't you feel more aggrieved if you got refused a flight on the basis of what you were wearing and got stranded at the airport just because of airline policy? Who would you blame? The airline? The movers at Brize who didn't tell you? The movers at your APOE? Your movements clerk? The FMCC? Yourself?

So that's now 2 legitimate reasons for not turning up in uniform. Not convinced yet? Ok lets carry on.

I think there is a tendancy here to believe that ALL military personnel are as 'well turned out' as yourself. By this I mean this is a forum primarily for Aircrew, visited by a lot of Officers and 'older' members of the military, or ex-military. Not sure how many young airman, soldiers or seaman are giving their opinions here. But, and I can assure you I am telling you the truth here, not everyone takes as much pride in their appearance in uniform as you do. Some of the sights I have seen wandering through the airport have to be seen to be believed.

Young guys in desert DPM, shirts unbuttoned, t-shirts smeared with salty sweat marks, boots still containing half the Iraqi desert, no headgear (who wears berets right?) and generally just looking a shambles. Not really the 'advert for the military' some of you believe we are portraying. Quite frankly I've seen better turned out homeless people. Admittedley, sometimes this isn't necessarily the passengers fault. After all, if you've spent 4/6 months washing your uniform in a bucket, or getting it wet in the Jingly laundry then its bound to look a bit shabby.

So, its not aesthetically pleasing to see someone in such a state. But we could live with that right? No need to stop him getting on his flight? Correct. But what about the complaint received by the military by the civilian passenger who has to sit next to the guy in question, who stinks and looks a bag of **** because he has been wearing the same clothes for weeks on end? In some cases the uniform could walk through the airport on its own without any need for a body inside it...

Ok, so the civvy shouldn't be complaining, after all the guy is a war-hero isn't he? Bloody moaners, should be buying the guy a beer on the flight, not moaning about the smell. Not in real-life sunshine. In an ideal world maybe.

Ah, that reminds me. War Heroes. Returning War Hero syndrome is probably the main reason we get passengers in uniform turning up at the airports and disregarding advice to the contrary at all stage of their journey. Nobody wants to slope back home to wives/ girlfriends/ mothers/ fathers/ brothers/ husbands in jeans and a sweatshirt do they? They want to come back looking like John Rambo. Why?

Pride? A sense of achievement? To look 'hard'? All of these. And I'm not saying that its wrong. You SHOULD be able to return in uniform looking all these things. But is it REALLY that important? I mean REALLY? Or are you suffering from being a bit 'Army Barmy'. Does what you are wearing really detract from the job you've done? Will your family forget where you've been unless you look the part in the Arrivals Hall?

An excuse we hear a lot when approaching passengers in uniform (yes, we have to stop and question why they are in uniform) is that they WERE TOLD SPECIFICALLY NOT TO DEPLOY WITH ANY CIVILIAN CLOTHING. Bull****. Everyone is told to take at least one set of civvys away with them. What if, God forbid, you had to travel back urgently as a Compassionate case? Do you honestly think ANY of the middle-east airlines would let you hop aboard dressed like GI Joe?

In the course of this posting I have handled and helped dozens and dozens or Comp cases. And do you know what? NOT ONE has EVER flown into the country in uniform. Hmm...weird that isn't it? So why do you have to on return from your detachment? Whats the difference? Ah, right, sorry, the returning war hero thing again.

I've just noticed I've only really spoken about people using Civ-Air on return from their tour. Not people flying out to commence their tour. Bit strange that as well when you think about it. So, when you fly back from, say, BSR to BZZ and then jump on the bus to fly LHR to HAJ its essential you wear full rig. But 6 months previously you flew HAJ-LHR and then from BZZ-BSR in jeans and t-shirt. What happened in those 6 months? Were you assimilated that month that you had your own personality stripped away from you?

Personally (and yes, in the last 15 years I have served in Bosnia, Zaire, Kosovo, Saudi, Sierra Leone and Iraq) the first thing I want when I fly in is to get out of my uniform. That and a cold beer. Why spend longer in uniform than you have to? I don't finish work in the UK and sit around my living room in my uniform. Or go down the pub in it. So why would I want to fly on a civil aircraft and spend hours at an airport in it?

That leads me onto my next point. Beer. Who hasn't craved a few pints of real watered down English beer after an operational tour? Not many of you i'd wager. But not everyone, after 6 months away on a two can rule can handle it. I bet you can guess where this is going? Yep, the phonecalls to our detachment because Johnny Pongo is leathered, in uniform, in Wetherspoons at the airport and is being abusive because he is not being 'respected'. Ho-hum. Here we go again. Now, nobody wants to stop this guy getting on his plane and back to his loved ones, but he is acting like a tool and won't behave himself. The fact he is sticking out like a sore thumb in his uniform is, yet again, not that 'advert for the military' you guys were banging on about earlier is it?

For the record, in my personal experience doing this job, NOBODY has ever been refused a flight for being in uniform. They are quietly advised to get changed into civvies. If they insist they have none and the particular airline they are flying with are happy to accept them then they fly in uniform. If the airline are not happy, then the passenger is advised to go and buy a pair of trackies and a t-shirt from a sports shop in the airport.

No big deal. Nobody gets a hard-on about it, least of all us. HOWEVER, one thing we do take very seriously is our own personal security. When a military passenger does encounter a problem in the airport we usually get called to assist. When said passenger is in uniform and therefore sticking out a mile, it compromises us to a certain extent. London airports have 'dickers' in them. We know it, BAA know it, the Met Police know it. We have to work in the airport all the time. The transitting passenger doesn't and therefore, it would be UNLIKELY (but not impossible) for him to be targeted unless it was an oportunist strike. However, 'they' have the time to target us, and that is a very real threat. A way around this, of course, would be to refuse to assist a passenger in uniform. But that's not realistic either is it? And not a road we would like to go down. It is quite staggering how many pax don't know their basic flight details as I mentioned before, therefore the assistance we can provide can be quite invaluable. I'd hate to go down the route just suggested...

As for the uniform itself, nobody has yet commented on the sensors and security at airports nowadays. BAA have some very good scanners and systems that are good at picking out 'trace explosives'. You know the kind, found on uniform, you've been carrying around loaded magazines at the very least for 4 months, jumping in and out of vehicles that have been carrying weapons of varying degrees of nastiness. Do you really need the hassle of being lit up like a Christmas tree at security? Not saying you'd be prevented from getting on your flight, or even missing it, but do you really want the hassle? Just for the sake of not being arsed to get changed? Your choice...

If you want my honest opinion, then I pretty much agree with you all here. You SHOULD be able to wear your uniform ANYWHERE you want in the UK. You SHOULD be given access to fast-track processing, access to Business Class lounges and SHOULD be bought beer and gifts by members of the public and walk around the airport preceded by a scantily clad young girlie scattering rose petals at your feet. You SHOULD be piped aboard the aircraft and have your hand shaken by the local Mayor. The pilot SHOULD invite you onto the flight deck and offer you your choice of stewardess to have your way with on your journey home.

All of the above SHOULD happen, but its not likely to happen anytime in the near future. In the meantime, is it really that much of a big deal to put some civvys on before you catch a plane home?

[akula]

Well said you sanctimonious patronising tw#t:D :D


ALWAYS assume NEVER check

[Comp Charlie]

To be honest I expected no less than a childish reply like that from (somebody who should PROBABLY know better) people on here.

I just figured there was that much crap being posted about this particular issue by those who are either:

a) Still wishing it was the 1940's when everyone loved the military
b) Believe people are being refused travel at civvy airports even though they are in their No 1 best uniform
c) Drive a desk for a living and have no appreciation of the internal workings of an airport
d) Just desperate to take a pop at Movers. For anything. Regardless of the subject being discussed.

I find it sad that having taken the time out to explain the reasons behind the policy, and actually AGREEING with the majority of the posters in this topic, that you deemed it necessary to resort to playground insults.

Still, if it fires your rockets big fella... :ok:

[Comp Charlie]

Well said you sanctimonious patronising tw#t:D :D


ALWAYS assume NEVER check

And to be honest with you I fail to see how you can back up your insults. All incidents described in my post have actually happened at some point in the past 12 months at London Heathrow, Gatwick, Luton or Stansted. And we haven't even discussed Birmingham.

Or weapons.

Or unauthorised war souvenirs.

Or the ability for the British Soldier to attempt to travel the world with zero cash, credit card or bankcard.

:D

[Spurlash2]

CC
In a vain attempt to mitigate the damage AKULA has just discharged..I think you're absolutely right.
...and it was well written:ok:

[Comp Charlie]

Thankyou.

As I said, I took the time and effort in an attempt to educate those who are under the misguided impression that an SAC Mover at Bzz has made up this legislation in order to screw people around.

A naive viewpoint but one unfortunately the paranoid 'Mover Bashers' think exists.

There is a lot of background to this uniform (or lack of) policy, and decisions about it were made well above my payscale, however, for someone dealing with the issue day to day, I put forward a few reasons for its existence.

Its not a definitive 'Aide Memoire' and was never intended to be. Just a personal viewpoint.

Oh, and by the way, the post is mainly aimed towards problems with Army passengers, but that is only because they are the vast majority of our 'customers' at the civil airports (Germany based troops etc)

Strangely enough, nobody EVER checks in to fly to Northern Ireland in uniform. Hmm...

[SASless]

CC,

I reckon then the uniform is satisfactory attire while fighting for your Country and fellow citizens or to be buried in when killed doing so but not to ride a fecking airliner. What a load of bovine feces.

If you believe one bit of that drivel, I feel very sorry for anyone wearing a uniform that comes your way. If a Squaddie with muddy boots, stinky armpits, and dirty undies winds up in the seat next to me while travelling from a combat zone for whatever reason....well then it is "beers on me, Mate! Welcome home! Thanks for serving."

Any Dumbass that would take objection to a having a soldier ride next to him is the one that should be tossed off the aircraft.

Drunk Squaddies in the bar.....how many oil field hands you seen pissed as anewt while coming or going to work on the same airline as won't have uniformed servicemembers?

Do us a favor and list the names of all the airlines that refuse service to uniformed personnel and I will pass them along to the US DOD and see if we can put them on a Debarment List and cease doing business with them.

For one....I am happy to see there are still military folks that are "proud" of their uniform and their service to the country. God Bless'em!

[LFFC]

CC

Some of us really do appreciate the position that you're in - and the time you've obviously taken composing such a heartfelt post. I've seen the compassionate system in action and was really impressed - keep up the great work and long may it continue. :)

Despite posts here stating differently, it is not the case that BAA have enforced this policy on us. Or that ALL of the airlines that operate out of the UK insist on no uniform. But some of them have.


But I really would like to know which airlines insist that uniform is not worn! I think we should be told!!!

[Reach]

Good post CC.

There's a differance between the US and the UK that everybody's missing.

The US is a lot bigger! The guys you see in uniforms at US airports are likely travelling on internal CONUS flights. Anyone who thinks US soldiers would wear uniform on civilian flights to/from the Middle East needs to change their meds.

[SASless]

Reach,

You been to an airport lately? When the lads and lasses get off the DOD charter flight inbound they are in Desert BDU's and they then connect with "internal flights". Can you imagine a US airline saying "sorryo....you stink....go take a shower, change into your jeans and tee will you!"

[Reach]

Yep

They get the DOD charter from the desert to the US and then connect to civilian CONUS flights. If they were getting an airline flight outside their home country - like the Brits have to - they'd have to get changed.

The main point is security, not stinky BDUs.

[Comp Charlie]

I'm in agreement with the majority like I've already said.

If I ended up next to a squaddie on a plane, I would appreciate the job they've done/ are doing and would gladly strike up a conversation (buying a beer would be stretching it a bit!!)

However, you and I are in a position to understand all this because we are in, or have been in the military.

I don't think it would come as a shock for you to know that unfortunately, despite the best effort of 'The Forces Comic' sorry - 'The Forces Favorite' newspaper, The Sun, to hoodwink us into believing that everyone loves us, a lot of people, Brits included, see us as a 'dirty little secret' and don't want our existance pushed into their face. I agree, they should be kicked out at 30,000 feet but unfortunately that solution is impractical, and i seriously doubt that when the complaint from the civvy comes in, the powers that be tell them to 'ram it' as should be the case. Instead i suspect an ass-kissing of the civvy is probably the usual response.

The point about the US being different to the UK is a valid one. Not sure if anyone here realises, but we are not talking about groups, or dozens of military passengers in uniform at Civil Airports. We are talking about a guy (or girl) on his own on an internal flight to, say, Aberdeen or Hannover.

On my flight we also handle 'green moves' at provincial airports around the UK on civil chartered aircraft. In these cases, of course there is no issue with troops in uniform. They are mobhanded, dripping in desert or green uniform and getting on an aircraft specifically chartered for them.

I would love to name and shame the airlines who have an issue with military uniform, and despite Ray-Darrs post, I would love to name and shame those employees (management) of BAA who have expressed their discontent at uniform in the airports (I imagine that Ray-Darr is a grunt on the shop floor of security, and as such not privy to these recommendations by his management...).

However, I feel if I did these things I may be overstepping my remit...my purpose is education, not blame...

[SASless]

As if wearing civvies does any good.....remember US Navy Diver Steathem who was tortured and then shot to death. His crime....being a Navy Salvage diver heading home after doing a Det in the Middle East.


http://www.stethem.navy.mil/stethem.asp

[Reach]

Just because it doesn't work everytime for everybody doesn't mean it doesn't do any good. If you thought like that you wouldn't wear your helmet because some guys have been killed despite wearing them.

[movadinkampa747]

As if wearing civvies does any good.....remember US Navy Diver Steathem who was tortured and then shot to death. His crime....being a Navy Salvage diver heading home after doing a Det in the Middle East.


http://www.stethem.navy.mil/stethem.asp

Surley his aircraft was hi jacked so they would target Spams anyway.........

[akula]

CC,

Fair play, I might have been slightly out of order with the name calling. Therefore, I can only apologise and rescind my reference to you being a tw#t. However, I fully stand by my assertion that you employ a sanctimonious and patronising tone.:p

ALWAYS assume NEVER check

[movadinkampa747]

Why do those senior officers who travel to MOD on a daily basis not travel and work in uniform?

[SASless]

That was just yet another murder by the Islamic Jihad organization that has never been paid for. Seems we have lots of rules that have nothing to do with the reality of today's world. After that hijacking and murder the government adopted a lenient hair policy and directives to wear civvie clothing when travelling outside the USA so as to lower your profile. Shame we did not go after the killers but then we did not go after the group that destoyed two embassies and the Marine Barracks in Beirut. Weakness only earns contempt.

[Comp Charlie]

CC,

Fair play, I might have been slightly out of order with the name calling. Therefore, I can only apologise and rescind my reference to you being a tw#t. However, I fully stand by my assertion that you employ a sanctimonious and patronising tone.:p

ALWAYS assume NEVER check

Apology accepted with no hard feelings. Sorry to hear you can guess the tone of my posting by the words I wrote. I can assure you I was intending to be neither sanctimonious, or patronising, was merely trying to give the facts to those who may not have looked into the deeper reasoning beyond the policy.

[Climebear]

Why do those senior officers who travel to MOD on a daily basis not travel and work in uniform?
13 days too late :rolleyes: - this question was raised at page 4 of this thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=233080&page=4)
Still what goes around...:ok: ;)

[Stuff]

My wife (also serving) phoned BA to check their policy on carriage of pax in uniform. BA were more than happy to carry service personnel in uniform however she did subsequently have to put up with an 80 year old man ranting at her that she was a "terrorist risk on his aircraft". Given that neither she nor I knew when she was due to return until 3 hours before her flight one has to wonder how the terrorists would know.....

[Tigs2]

Stuff
I hope your lady comes home in uniform with her head (justifably) held high. Tell her to tell the old knacker she spoke to sod off. My Mrs is out there also. It makes me mad to think of what we do to our serving personnel.

[Stuff]

Cheers Tigs,

On the subject of the US treating their personnel with the respect they deserve, we'd booked a holiday there on my wife's return from the sandy place. When they found out she'd just come back we got a discount on our hotel room and a free upgrade to the best suite in the place. Now all we need to figure out is how to get her OOA pay sorted!!

[Comp Charlie]

Stuff
I hope your lady comes home in uniform with her head (justifably) held high. Tell her to tell the old knacker she spoke to sod off. My Mrs is out there also. It makes me mad to think of what we do to our serving personnel.

This would be the same '80 year old duffer' that no doubt served this country with honour in the Second World War I imagine. The same 80 year old duffer that people here would be up in arms about if he'd been set about by a gang of hoodies or treated badly in any way shape or form by society today.

I see your logic, your missus SHOULD be able to come home in uniform, head held high etc etc etc, but as I mentioned already, I don't think the British public actually LIKE to see 'us' in uniform as it takes them out of their comfort zone and makes them paranoid about bogeymen in suicide vests.

I'm pleased to see someone has mentioned an airline that DOESN'T have a problem with servicemen in uniform. :ok:

[BellEndBob]

Comp Charlie.

Excellent posts all. :D

I have had cause to use your services in the past (to change a ticket) and had excellent service.

One other point about the Americans in uniform. They take pride in their appearance, we don't. We are the scruffiest bunch of sods on the planet.

Also, worth remembering that our (working) uniforms are the cheapest, tackiest pieces of clothing money can buy.

Where we excel when it comes to flag waving, and should continue to strut our stuff, is in the ceremonial side. Nobody does it like us and it is there that we should concentrate our efforts to win hearts and minds.

[South Bound]

Yep, absolutely, just what the troops need after 6 months in Afghanistan - a parade - that will make everyone feel wonderful!

[jonny5]

Comp Charlie,
well written posts with valid points but if you are not going to name the airlines that do not allow uniform on their flights then at least tell us where we can find that information so sasless can do his stuff!:E

[FFP]

Comp Charlie,

Thanks for your post. Gave an insight that many of us needed to put things into perspective.

I agree with and understand the points you made, and realise that you post as the messenger, not the policy maker.

I think it's just the fact that having gone through an OOA det and now back home, the troops perceive this bureaucracy as another thing to screw them around. SAC mover on the desk or SO2 is an easy target for their frustration.

Again, a good post. Have PM'd you on a separate matter :ok:

Regards

[Comp Charlie]

Thanks for your message FFP, I will get back to you with an answer as soon as possible as I mentioned.

CC

[dallas]

Good posts Comp Charlie - it seems you're dealing here with idealists and realists. I tend to side with the latter. The only uniform I want to see is in controlled environments, looking its best. God forbid someone makes it policy to travel everywhere in the bloody thing!

[dwhcomputers]

Even back in 1965 we had to wear civvies to travel to Singapore by British Eagle trooping flights from LHA so not such a new rule. Flying to the States by RAF VC10 in the 1970 civvies was the order of the day. Whilst appreciating that things have changed today there has to be times when uniform is acceptable and yet in spite of reading this tread from the beginning not one person has actually stated that they have been refused permission to fly because they had been wearing uniform.
The question was asked earlier “Do the US Services wear uniform when working in the Pentagon” certainly at the beginning of the 70s uniform was always the order of the day and worn proudly. There again they had a summer working uniform that looked smart not the bag of rags (60s FEAF style) that I was kitted out to wear.
Looked so bad that I was sent to the BX to purchase USAF uniforms and used Canadian Chevrons on it.
Discrimination against serviceman doesn’t end when you leave, many Local Authorities especially in the Midlands and the North refuse to employ ex service personnel or have to get special dispensation because they are in receipt of a Public Service Pension. Its allowable discrimination too. but I suppose that should be a seperate thread

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

dwhcomputers

Was that because of liability for reserve service?

[dwhcomputers]

Nothing to do with reserve service did not want to employ people with a Public Service Pension (Mostly Authorities who cover the map in red)

[Climebear]

Well my faith in the great British Public is (partly) restored. I managed to escape from my Purple Cave yesterday and travelled on the rail system in uniform (although I changed my usual set of natty combat pyjamas (with some lovely badges :yuk: ) for blues for the occasion (to appease any dress regs geeks) and checked that regs permitted it first (to appease any sy geeks)). On arrival at Kings Cross ticket hall a member of staff approached me offering assistance, after explaining that I was getting a ticket with a warrant, he asked me to wait, approached the nearest teller then led me straight past the long queue of fellow passengers (no 'counter number 6 please' for me).

A big thank you to GNER and Kings Cross.

Airports take note...

[BEagle]

Perhaps he thought you were the driver?

[Climebear]

Perhaps he thought you were the driver?
That would have been a worrying thought!

[Phil_R]

Hi,

Sorry to revive an old thread (And I have almost no connections with the RAF, so I hope you'll excuse the intrusion) but - this has answered a couple of questions for me.

I did wonder why I had absolutely never seen anyone in uniform outside of a military facility, and even that's limited to a couple of hours I spent at Coltishall shooting some video. In fact, I've never seen anyone in military uniform of any kind, anywhere in the UK, ever, the only exception being on TV and the occasional brass band.

Of course this does rather put the dampers on a piece of drama I'm in the process of writing, where we'd arranged things so that our heroine could be seen in No.1s as frequently as possible, and probably much more frequently than is realistic, so as to look as impressive as possible on screen. But to expand on the "we really don't love our military" thread, you only have to look at how frequently they're depicted in film and TV. Other than "Soldier Soldier" and the abysmal "Strike Force", it simply doesn't happen. It's vastly easier to rent American uniform in London if you're costuming a production. Quite disturbing, really.

- Phil

[Comp Charlie]

Hi Phil,
if you want your production to be as realistic as possible AND you want the heroine to be in Number 1's as often as possible may I suggest some of the possible scenarios for your script:

1) Have her charged frequently for various misdemeanors (late for work, drink-driving etc)

2) Have her dicked for various parades (freedom of the city etc) and show her being shouted at by the SWO.

3) Show her being presented with various campaign medals after back-to-back tours in the 'Stan and Iraq.

To be fair these are about the only times we wear Number 1's anymore...

CC

[Pontius Navigator]

Phil,

You have led a sheltered life.

Many motorway service areas have a load of squaddies in combats. You would notice how they all look inwards rather than the 1000 yard stare.

Weekends is also a good time to see all the TA moving around.

[dwhcomputers]

Re-write your script to the 60s. North Walsham just north of RAF Coltishall would have been full of Service personnel in uniform. Even the shift change coach From Coltishall to Trimmingham, Trim to Colt, Colt to Neatishead and return stopped there to allow people to shop (unofficially) plus of course the rich buggers who bought their 3 bed detached bungalows for £1250 or less. Add to that the people in private accommodation living there and the people using their thumb to go to the local cinema (The Regent) . This scene would be repeated all over the country wherever a RAF Station was situated.

[Comp Charlie]

Alternatively, buy up some old copies of 'Get Some In' (remember that gem!) on Betamax, digitally enhance the quality, rebrand and title it and pass it off as your own work.

Plenty of people sat around the Naafi in Number 1's in that show!!

:ok:

CC

[Chugalug2]

I don't think it would come as a shock for you to know that unfortunately, a lot of people, Brits included, see us as a 'dirty little secret' and don't want our existance pushed into their face. I agree, they should be kicked out at 30,000 feet but unfortunately that solution is impractical, and i seriously doubt that when the complaint from the civvy comes in, the powers that be tell them to 'ram it' as should be the case. Instead i suspect an ass-kissing of the civvy is probably the usual response.

I would love to name and shame the airlines who have an issue with military uniform, and despite Ray-Darrs post, I would love to name and shame those employees (management) of BAA who have expressed their discontent at uniform in the airports (I imagine that Ray-Darr is a grunt on the shop floor of security, and as such not privy to these recommendations by his management...).

CC: As a new member, but an ex RAF/Civie Pilot, I am appalled that you and your fellow service personnel feel the above to be the case.A low profile policy for the armed forces really kicked in with the "troubles", late 60s. Before that it was not uncommon to see members of the Armed Forces thumbing lifts in uniform (and getting them!). Well that was a far off world to which we shall never return. But the reason for the change was clear, to avoid the unwelcome attentions of the IRA, not to avoid raising the ire of the civilian population. The fact that most people now have no personal knowledge of service life, and know no-one who is serving, makes it all the more important for them constantly to be reminded of those who do, and the debt we all owe them. By disappearing into a brief footage on the news you are creating a vacuum that is simply filled by the ignorant prejudices of ladies with little hammers spent on smashing the industrial military complex, and war itself (if only). If you can wear civvies you can wear a decent smart uniform. Not provided? Well it should be. The respect from complete strangers will set an example to others less well informed. Airlines should not determine such policies. Take away their military contracts and they will reappraise their position overnight. OK, all this takes time, and will only happen as a result of political pressure on the Whitehall Mandarins, but the way things are going now, of not so benign neglect as instanced in this and other threads is unacceptable. Of course security is paramount, but life is a risk, and using it as an excuse for pandering to the loud mouthed opponents of the Armed Forces is wrong.