Saluting US Warrant Officers - for information

[Chief_Two]

The following explanation from ARRSE explains why US Warrants aren't saluted by the Brits.

"Chapter 8 (Ceremonial) of the Queen’s Regulations for the Army is the relevant part for paying compliments (saluting) and paragraph 8.055 subparagraph c states:

“The compliments laid down in these regulations are to be paid to officers of corresponding rank in the service of any power formally recognized by Her Majesty.”

The ‘corresponding rank’ is detailed at Chapter 2 (Command within the Army), paragraph J2.042 – the lowest officer rank being NATO code OF-1, equating to a Second Lieutenant.

Thus according to Queen’s Regulations the lowest rank of officer to be saluted, including foreign officers, is Second Lieutenant or equivalent OF-1 rank.

So until either:

a. The USA re-categorizes US WOs as OF-1 equivalent; or

b. Queen’s Regulations are amended;

US Warrant Officers are NOT entitled to a salute."

[Two's in]

Done to death here:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=189612&highlight=saluting+us+warrant+officers

11 Sept 2005

[dallas]

Hey I'll salute anyone and anything - every so often I even mean it!

[SASless]

US Warrant Officers are NOT entitled to a salute."

Seems we are grasping at some straws here folks. Some would suggest Montgomery as a Field Marshal was not entitled to a salute because the Americans do not have a comparable rank.

So it would seem a British Field Marshal is not entitled to a salute by "any" American military person.

That ignores all the other reasons that prick wasn't worth saluting to begin with.:ugh:

[allan907]

Whenever I had to do a duty visit to any USAF base in the UK (Mildenhall, Lakenheath & Upper Heyford) it was very rare to get a salute from a noncom, or a junior ranking officer; this applied whether I was in No 2 with shoulder rank tabs or a full-blown No 1. This was little America and as insular and ignorant of the outside world as their mainland. :ugh:

[doubledolphins]

The Septics did have 5 star Generals. I believe the rank was called "General of the Army" bit like "Marshal of the RAF" and "Admiral of the Fleet" any way it was equivalent to Field Marshal.

[BEagle]

allan907, I was once shopping in the BX at Offut AFB in the late '70s. Some inquisitive Spam asked what 'RAF' stood for on my wings as I was getting back into the car.

"Is Russian Air Forceski. We come look at your SAC, tovarich!"

Didn't hang around to watch the result.....

[SASless]

Check yer history sport....Eisenhower then a four star (at that point the highest rank in the US military) commanded Montgomery a British Field Marshal. Montgomery and the British public (with Montgomery's urging) thought the insufferable prick had been "demoted" when Bradley arrived and took over command of American forces shortly after D-Day. (per the plan all along)

The five star rank was used during WWII only and when the holders of that rank retired or died....the rank went with them. Four stars are the limit today.

[snapper41]

The Septics did have 5 star Generals. I believe the rank was called "General of the Army" bit like "Marshal of the RAF" and "Admiral of the Fleet" any way it was equivalent to Field Marshal.


They even had a 6-Star; in 1976, for the US Bicentennial, the US Senate voted to elevate George Washington (posthumously, of course!) to 6-Star rank. Can't remember what is was called, though.

[West Coast]

Beagle
You have more stories than anyone here on pprune.

I landed the space shuttle, or at least that's what I told them at my last job interview.

[US Herk]

They even had a 6-Star; in 1976, for the US Bicentennial, the US Senate voted to elevate George Washington (posthumously, of course!) to 6-Star rank. Can't remember what is was called, though.

No, not quite. They posthumously promoted Washington to the rank of 'General of the Armies' (closest thing to a title we have), but stipulated that he would come first, in order of precedence, over all other 'Generals of the Armies' - I believe Pershing was the only other one, but he never wore more than 4-stars. Washington's 'promotion' didn't actually have any new rank, rather it was more titular...

The 5-star rank is 'General of the Army' singular...except for Hap Arnold, who was redesignated 'General of the Air Force' after we split off as a separate service

[BEagle]

Westie - you mean you had a go on that landing simulator at Johnson Space Center as well? Great fun, wasn't it! Took me about 3 goes to get the hang of it - just follow the flight director as closely as possible...

I pinched the idea of 'RAF' from something I'd read in Johnny Kent's book 'One of the Few' which I'd read a week or so earlier. On page 234, if you don't believe me.

Fortunately it didn't have quite the same effect when I'd said it as when he did - that was some 25 years earlier when McCarthyist paranoia was at its height.

Oh - and were you in the carrier - or the lighthouse? :p

[West Coast]

I was overflying the whole event in a SR71. This is where you say you have piccies of the top of the -71 from your Canberra, muttering "stooopid yanks" or something to that effect

Flight directors are for women, I flew raw data.

[Pontius Navigator]

SASLess, I guess you knew Monty then?

[SASless]

PNav,

Actually no...but his reputation preceeds him even today.:=

[BEagle]

SR-71, Westy? Thought you flew the Aurora?

Glad you recognise that it was 'our' Canberra though, not your 'B-57'!

[Pontius Navigator]

PNav,
Actually no...but his reputation preceeds him even today.:=

Mind you, you could argue that to get 4 or 5 stars is a sign of a personality defect or which we have a number of recent light blue examples.

I am sure you have some too.

[SASless]

Ah for sure.....it is not just cream that floats to the top!

Think back to an old boy from our Air Force named Dugan....got hisself fired by George's Father after he gave away the Gulf 1 battle plan to the press. A complete Teewat.

As far as ego is concerned....dear old Douglas MacArthur probably eclipsed even Montgomery in the end. That is up till Harry Truman tied a can to his tail and sent him home from Korea.

During my time, Westmoreland was the absolute example of how an inbred promotion system can work to the disadvantage of the military. Read his book and see how he indicts himself in his own words. The section where he went to LBJ and asked for "165,000 more troops or there will be no chance of winning the war", only to be told it wasn't politically feasible. Westmoreland put hand to cap and went back to Saigon and continued in a losing strategy.

Westmoreland knew his next job was as Chief of Staff of the US Army and he was going to do nothing to jeapordize his getting the top job in the Army.

It took a real war fighter, Creighton Abrams, to turn it around by making a stategy chance from body count to destruction of logistical assets.

[buoy15]

Pontius -
I am only a 1 Star, Taurus - (I so wish I could have been a Leo) - will this affect my compulsive behaviour disorder to play golf 3 times a week, sail away at weekends for overnight stops and go shopping at 6am for special offers when it's quiet. Please help!

[Pontius Navigator]

Think back to an old boy from our Air Force named Dugan....got hisself fired by George's Father after he gave away the Gulf 1 battle plan to the press. A complete Teewat.

****? I thought he just told the truth, one of the tenets of PR :)

Politically niaive I think is truer.

As far as ego is concerned....dear old Douglas MacArthur probably eclipsed even Montgomery in the end. That is up till Harry Truman tied a can to his tail and sent him home from Korea.

Yup, I was thinking of him too.

During my time, Westmoreland was the absolute example of how an inbred promotion system can work to the disadvantage of the military.

Yes, forgot about W.

Thought Patton might have gotten a mention, and Clark too.

[Chief_Two]

Seems we are grasping at some straws here folks. Some would suggest Montgomery as a Field Marshal was not entitled to a salute because the Americans do not have a comparable rank.

So it would seem a British Field Marshal is not entitled to a salute by "any" American military person.

Exactly. The Brits forgot about US Warrants :bored:

[SASless]

Pont,

Telling all about the battle plan is cool....after the battle....not just mere days "Before" the show kicks off!

[West Coast]

Beagle

Yes, your Canberra. Then we made it better.

[Rich Lee]

When did US Warrants give a flying or other type fornication about a salute? In the day, Warrants didn't salute and didn't care about getting salutes.

US Warrants don't bow (or curtsie for the wimmin Warrants) for the Queen or her family either, so we don't expect them to bow or curtsie for US Warrants - but few would object if, in incredible awe, the Queen chooses to do so.:cool:

[Blacksheep]

Apart from their NCOs I was never able to work out what rank Americans were. Privates, WOs and officers all looked the same to me. Of course, we Brits don't even salute Air Chief Marshals if we're not wearing our hats and we never wear a hat indoors. Americans are big on saluting and seem to salute everybody, everywhere all the time, hatless or not.

I was once saluted at fifty paces by a Gurkha sentry when the RAF first put rank badges on NCOs' epaulettes. He insisted on having it returned and I had to resort to a certain vocabulary I learned in Brats, to convince him I was a Sergeant.

[SASless]

Rich,

Next thing they tell us is they toast the Queen while sitting too!

That and how a guy can wear a Green Beret, with two hat badges, red trousers, and not be a Marine.

[NURSE]

interesting in the Gulf we had to salute US officers of higher rank but we were ignored by US soldiers of lower rank. And given the extreme bad manners of US soldiers and officers saluting whilst smoking using mobile phones I think that for the US military to complain when we ignore them is a bit much. My best one on a US base was "Excuse me son but I am entitled to a salute as a warrant officer" to which I replied " In the British army as a Warrant officer you aren't but I as a Captain most definitly Am!" stunned silence and half hearted salute.

[The Masked Geek]

The closest I ever come to saluting an American is adjusting my sunglasses.

[woptb]

Must admit to being slightly confused by all the teenagers wearing more ribbons than a Brazilian admiral !

[wg13_dummy]

Chief Two, you really are a tedious waste of oxygen. You tried this before as 'New WO1', not only here on Pprune but on Arrse too. You got told to grow up and sling yer hook on both occasions.
You've even been told in black and white here on Arrse (http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=38830.html) what the score is.
You are either;
1. A very good wind up merchant. Well done
2. A prick.
William Hill has the majority of wagers on number 2.
Any real US Army Warrants out there who can 'educate' Chief Two in the appropriate old fashioned manner wins a crate of Boddingtons. Failing that, arrange an exchange posting with the AAC and we will show him how we salute the likes of him.
http://www.wristtwisters.com/catalog/images/tiny2finger_smiley.jpg

[Corrona]

To be honest, I've hardly met a WO of any military that has proven themselves worthy of a 'good morning' let alone a salute.

I'd rather have a good Staff Sergeant / Flight Sergeant as my right hand man any day over a Warrant - the Staff Sergeant is still 'trying' each day, rather than feeling like he's got there, and is now going to wallow in the mistaken belief that people now think he is god.

[Archimedes]

Don't forget that the last appearance on Pprune involved a Pprune regular assuming the artist formely known as New WO1's identity and simply cutting and pasting from Arrse to see whether the reaction here would be similarly hostile...

[Pontius Navigator]

We had a WO Bronco driver in the mess at Lossie. He couldn't understand why everyone kept staring at a WO in an Officer's Mess.

As for 'any WO in any military' I think you might make a distinction with the senior service and one WO Rocket in particular.

When it came to bidding for an exchange slot at Waddo the RN accepted the hit and offered a WO in exchange for a Sgt. Good rate of exchange.

[wg13_dummy]

and offered a WO in exchange for a Sgt

Exactly, PN. The US Army system and in particular, Chief Two, has virtually no military experience in the equivilent sense of HM Forces Warrants. Chief Two is on similar terms to a newly promoted RAF rearcrew member (not meant as a dig, rearcrew chaps, just as a leveler for ****lips/Chief_Two).

[Chief_Two]

Exactly, PN. The US Army system and in particular, Chief Two, has virtually no military experience in the equivilent sense of HM Forces Warrants. Chief Two is on similar terms to a newly promoted RAF rearcrew member

Yes, but many US Army Warrants are Warranted as WO1s from E6, and Navy Warrants are usually E8s and E9s before they are Commissioned as CW2.

[wg13_dummy]

Yes, but many US Army Warrants are Warranted as WO1s from E6, and Navy Warrants are usually E8s and E9s before they are Commissioned as CW2.


You were obviously knitted then as you have demonstrated a less than zero score for your situational awareness.

Do you find you get punched by your peers on a regular basis?


Out of interest, how long have you served in the US regular forces?

[Rich Lee]

This thread is jolly good fun and all that but I just don't understand why anyone cares enough to even reply to this Chief_Two or New WO1 or whoever he claims to be.

With apology for the repetitive nature of my response, but:

US Warrant Officers, 'real' US Warrant Officers (not those who need recognition to compensate for deep seated inferiority and sexual inadequacies and who are in reality psuedo-Warrants) do not salute unless forced by threat of courts martial. Real Warrants could care less if others of any rank in any nation salute them or where others might think they fit atop some military totem pole.

Having stated that opinion, I must admit that I once saluted Mad Dog Mike Benthall, a pioneer in British military aviation (Scouts) and commander of a Gurka fighting unit who is reputed to have been the only serving officer to have told the Queen to sod off with those mangy Geordies whilst on a VIP flight to Windsor Castle. Though he often denied being the British officer who promoted Idi Amin to sergeant long before he became the 'Big Daddy' we came to know and love, he was fond of telling stories of his military discharge which, some say, happened several times a night while he was posted in the very far east which is right of India I hear. I was, at the time, reliably informed that he, or someone who looked like him, got more bounce than a badgers bum. His fascination with little maps of Ireland was never really understood. At any rate, he was a British Officer any US Warrant could respect and one deserving of a crisp, military salute by God!:ok:

[Chief_Two]

US Warrant Officers, 'real' US Warrant Officers do not salute unless forced by threat of courts martial. Real Warrants couldnt care less if others of any rank in any nation salute them or where others might think they fit atop some military totem pole.

I'm not sure which army you're talking about! The new breed of Warrant Officers do care and expect to be saluted. :bored:

[ZH875]

The new breed of Warrant Officers do care and expect to be saluted. :bored:New Breed, methinks there is a bit of Genetic Mal-Modification if this is the case.

CW2, please, once and for all, go stand in front of a mirror and salute yourself until you can do it no more, then start again.

No matter how many months you have been in the US forces, you are still a WARRANT officer in the eyes of MOST of the worlds forces, so you will not get, (nor do you deserve it) saluted by any Brit worth their salt.

Repeat: Up 2 3, Down 2 3, Up 2 3 Down 2 3, now be a good chief warrant 2, and :mad: go away.

God help us when you get the next lucky box of cornflakes with a CW3 badge and saluting manual inside. (or was it a golden wrapper from a Wanka Bar)

[ThreadBaron]

The new breed of Warrant Officers do care and expect to be saluted. One cares little what they expect ... only what they deserve! If they 'expect' to be saluted do they 'expect' themselves to return it in the S,S,SH manner in which it might have been presented.

Nah, thought not. This door swings both ways!

BTW, I was exceedingly proud of Her Majesty's Warrant which was bestowed upon me and never begrudged saluting anyone who held Her Majesty's commission.

Which not many septics do!

[Rich Lee]

I'm not sure which army you're talking about! The new breed of Warrant Officers do care and expect to be saluted.

I fear that this sort of response is the result of feeding large numbers of U.S. children genetically mutated corn over the course of a childhood.

We are all well aware you are a Troll and not a 'real' Warrant Officer in the U.S. Army or Navy. Some of us here were, and some still are 'real' Warrant Officers so we know what a 'real' Warrant Officer expects.

If by some strange quirk of fate you are indeed a Warrant Officer, it should come as no surprise that you have chosen the wrong military career path. Instead of going Warrant you should have become a Commissioned Officer. Commissioned Officers in the U.S. Military are gentleman by Act of Congress. Warrant Officers are gentleman by birth. Warrant Officers do not need a salute to confirm who they are.

I would be inclined to ridicule any Pom who saluted you.:=

[ThreadBaron]

Mr Lee I salute you!

[Zoom]

Me too. Now why don't we knock this thing on the head? I can bear it no longer!

[SASless]

As in the original thread started by WO1, this thread is just a bit of pprune fishing which has caught some suckers just as he did in the previous thread.

He has GPS'd the deep dark holes these fish lurk in and presents an irresistable bait. Some just cannot refuse an excuse (real or imagined) to get up on their high horse.:ugh:

He is neither American nor a Warrant Officer but he is a professional fisherman!

Charter Member: WOPA, Phu Loi Chapter, 1968

[wg13_dummy]

He's a cock, I know that much.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

He's american........he's bound to be a cock:p

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced