The Varsity

[Conan the Librarian]

Time for a new "Memories and anecdotes" thread on another unsung aircraft. There should be plenty of takers once word gets around. Ok, who is going to start the ball rolling, ME chaps?


Conan

[chevvron]

OK here's one to get the ball rolling:
Varsity landing on one of the short runways at Farnborough; controller notices smoke from main u/c and informs pilot; pilot replies 'yes I think I'll go off the end'. Just like that!

[MReyn24050]

Great Aircraft, however I think this one should really be recoded in the "Saddest Looking aircraft". This was taken at Castle Donnington in Nov 2004, not sure what condition she is in today.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/Nottingham-EastMidlandsCastleDoning.jpg[/IMG]
Mel

[Mr_Grubby]

http://www.btinternet.com/~simon.gurry/Dadsphotos/VARSITYTangmere63small.JPG
Tangmere 1963.
Clint.

[Mr_Grubby]

Just found another picture in my collection. WF424, Tangmere again, 1963.
http://www.btinternet.com/~simon.gurry/Dadsphotos/VARSITYWF424Tangmere63small.JPG
Clint.

[VP8]

Flew with them a few times when I was at Finningley in the mid70's.

Always looked like little piglets in my mind!! :}

VEEPS

[MReyn24050]

Varsity mid-air with Cessna, Cambridge area 1969-ish. Believe that "jarats" was student in Varsity. Cessna landed, minus wheels, at Oakington. Reputations damaged, little else. Worked several years later with the Cessna instructor in a land far far away. From that tour there is an airfield entry in my book - AFAR. Anyone else been there?
It would appear to be a known hazard with the Varsity?
From Air Safety Network.
On the 7th July 1980 Varsity WJ914 collided in midair with a
RAF De Havilland DH-100 Vampire T.11 (XD549). The outer wing section broke off and the crew lost control of the plane. Both aircraft crashed near RAF Oakington.
On the 14 Jun 1966 Varsity T.1 WF334 crash-landed in a field after colliding with a Cessna 337 Super Skymaster, registered G-ATJO.
On the 21 Aug 1969 Varsity T.1 WJ895 collided in midair with Cessna 150F G-ATKF. It returned safely to RAF Oakington but was not repaired. The Cessna also landed safely.

[spekesoftly]

On the 7th July 1980 Varsity WJ914 collided in midair with a
RAF De Havilland DH-100 Vampire T.11 (XD549).
Think you'll find that accident was 20 years earlier - 7/7/1960.

[MReyn24050]

spekesoftly

You are of course correct.My Apologises, not quite got over the penalty shoot out.
Mel

[Talkdownman]

On the 21 Aug 1969 Varsity T.1 WJ895 collided in midair with Cessna 150F G-ATKF. It returned safely to RAF Oakington but was not repaired. The Cessna also landed safely.Cessna pilot - instructor Mr Whittaker, ISTR.

[chevvron]

Correct; it was 'KF. I did my first powered solo at Cambridge in it in '71(had about 20 hours gliding solo already), and my instructor WAS Neville Whittaker, who pointed out a slight 'crease' on the fuselage caused by the mid-air. Interestingly, Neville was authorised to test fly Varsities when they came into Marshalls for maintenance!

[shack]

Nit picking MReyn 24050 but I think you will find that the Vampire T 11 was the DH115.

[MReyn24050]

shack

You may well be right information was taken from the Air Safety Network Databank. If so thanks for your input.

Mel

[JW411]

I trained on the Varsity with 4 FTS at Valley in 1962. I remember it as being a nice aircraft to fly and probably best described as matronly.

One of my instructors had a bull-terrier and this beast used to come flying with us. He would lie down between us on the cockpit floor and kept a beady eye on me throughout the flight.

I swear blind that that bl**dy dog played a major part in the debriefing procedure afterwards!

[chevvron]

JW411 - you may think it was delightful but others didn't' particularly TP's at Farnborough who disliked flying it at low level; the last Farnborough one did early development work leading to NVG's.

[Cornish Jack]

Compared to its 'sister' the 'Pig', it was much improved - better handling, more power etc.
The crew emergency exit was 'interesting' ... a hatch in the floor had to be folded up and then a 'D' handle in a clip was pulled to open the external surface hatch. In the mid 50's a Varsity on a night x-country from Thorney suffered double engine fires and was abandoned. The first man out had a little trouble, initially, 'cos he was standing on the first trap door. When he eventually recognised the problem, he applied a slightly too enthusiastic pull to the 'D' ring for the second hatch and, since it was mainly opened by air flow he overbalanced and departed unintentionally early. All crew eventually departed OK but the skipper was a rather voluble Flt Sgt who had (don't ask!) brought his tool kit on board with him. The Nav reckons that he could hear streams of invective from said skipper as he floated down in the night air. The aircraft made an almost perfect arrival in a stream bed with very little apparent damage. My highest flight on a non-pressurised aircraft was made on the Varsity on a land-away to Gardemoen - 25k and an introduction to sinusitis to boot!!:{

[Gainesy]

I vaguely remember a tale in Air Clues in the mid-70s of, I think, a solo stude at Oakington who tried to barrel roll one and stuffed up badly. He landed ok but the aircraft had wrinkles all over it and a corrugated wing and was written off. :uhoh:

Anybody any further?

[JW411]

Then there was the sorry saga of WF426; a ground mechanic (allegedly from the Indian Air Force) decided one Sunday afternoon at Thorney Island to go flying on his own and so demonstrate how good he was at flying aeroplanes. This would hopefully persuade someone in authority that he should be sent on a pilot's course. It has to be said that Plan A contained some muddled thinking.

He got airborne OK but had some difficulty reuniting WF426 with Thorney Island. After several failed approaches he decided to head east whilst he came up with Plan B. Sadly, he ran out of fuel and killed himself and a couple of people on the ground somewhere near Beauvais.

I believe the date was 05 April 1955.

[teeteringhead]

In the early 1970s, in "Detachment Days" at Aldergrove, the Station was still home to 23 MU, who despite the "troubles", fettled Canberras and Phantoms for the RAF. The Canberra MTP, one Bernie Standen also flew the MU's "hack"/air taxi, Varsity WJ 898, known as "Wilhelmina."

Whenever a second pilot was needed, Bernie would come to 72's crewroom to see if anyone fancied a day out of the Province. And so it came to pass that Flying Officer Teeters found himself in the right hand seat of Wilhelmina en route from Aldergrove to Leuchars to pick up the crew who had just delivered a Phantom.

A little way into the flight, the following conversation ensues:

Bernie: You have control Teeters, I'm bursting for a slash, I'm nipping back to the Elsan.
Fg Off Teeters: Bernie, we're in the middle of Glasgow's zone, and I'm a helicopter pilot.
Bernie: Just hold her steady, I won't be long - and don't answer any calls from ATC while I'm away - that way they'll keep other aircraft out of our way!

And the return flight finished with an "ILS" flown on the Decca roller map, much to the confusion of ATC at EGAA, 'cos they thought the iLS was off-line for maintenance! And you try and tell that to young folk today......

[alvin-sfc]

The only experience I've had of the Varsity was an AEF with the air cadets on our annual summer camp at RAF Linton on Ouse in 1971.I think the best bit was lying prone in the ventral pod pretending to be a Lancaster bomb aimer on a raid.A little worrying as I was 28 at the time(only joking) Sadly,my thoughts on seeing the name "Varsity"also bring to mind the fact that our CO,Ralph Reid Buckle was killed co-piloting one back in 1984,also on board an ex cadet Neil Kingsville.I think there were about a dozen people on board,most died in the crash but if I remember right there were a couple of survivors.Anybody out there know the facts?

[chevvron]

Topcliffe ATC Camp '71. Some cadets flew in Varsities of the Airman/Aircrew Training School, but only 'til midweek, then a Varsity departed to Gibraltar on a long Navex. On arrival, it went u/s; another was sent with spares, and we were told that would also go u/s when it got there (friday pm, so they'd all have to weekend in Gib!)

[jabberwok]

A shot from Jan 1970.

http://www.homepages.mcb.net/bones/WebPix/WF417.jpg

Edited to correct date.

[chevvron]

Blind Landing Experimental Unit Bedford; first aircraft to carry out Cat 3 landings.

[JW411]

Now chevvron raises a very interesting question. Is it Varsities or is it Varsitys?

All the time I was on the Argosy the same argument raged - Argosies or Argosys.

I favoured Varsitys or Argosys but do any of you out there have a definitive answer?

[jabberwok]

Blind Landing Experimental Unit Bedford; first aircraft to carry out Cat 3 landings.

Indeed it was - taken at Liverpool.

When the new runway was built at Liverpool it was rarely used - it was a looong taxi to the terminal. BLEU took this golden opportunity to shoot endless ILS's which, in turn, brought us some nice Boscombe aircraft. Regular visitor apart from the Varsity was the Short Belfast XR364(?) but I also recall their Harvard, FT375 and a Meteor NF13, WM367.

[JW411]

Don't know about the rest but Belfast XR364 was detached to RAE Bedford and not to RAE Boscombe Down.

[chevvron]

Er JW; Boscombe was never an RAE, it was A & AEE

[JW411]

You are absolutely right of course. I plead senility to be considered as a mitigating circumstance!

[Busta]

Wonderful engines, radial sleeve valve - never went slightly wrong!

Beads clamped, ratchet selected.

[spekesoftly]

"Wonderful engines, radial sleeve valve" - Was it five blades we had to hand crank the engine through, to check for hydraulic locks? (First flight of the day).

"Beads clamped, ratchet selected" - trailing aerial check?


The 'Minimum Ground Run Take-Off' - Wind it up to full power against the brakes, with ?degrees of flap, and rotate at about 65 kts - then fly level until reaching the single engine safety speed of 105 kts - seemed to take an eternity. :ooh: (figures may be a bit out - 'twas over 35 years ago!)

[spekesoftly]

Farewell Flypast - RAF Strubby 1972http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f228/spekesoftly/scan0001.jpg

[Conan the Librarian]

I thought this thread might dig up a few memories. Keep them coming! Anyone have any tales of early PIC trips?

Conan

[Pom Pax]

What a marvelous heating system, perfectly designed to the open plan lay out! Must have been straight of the shelf for the Viking.

"Nav to Captain, can you please turn the heating down?"
"No!" :ugh:

Them sitting up front all rugged up with hoare frost all over the panel, us down the back in jocks and flying suit enduring a four hour or more sauna! Must have been all right in the signals bay but they were always sitting in the r.h. seat. Did all that time count as P2?

[Blacksheep]

ATC Summer camp at Manby. Went down the flight line during an 'off' period to look at aeroplanes and was invited to take a trip. I was alone down the back and we flew all over UK for several hours, doing touch and go landings at different airfields. I'd no idea which ones. It must have been a navigation exercise. Anyway, I spent a lot of the time standing on one of the trainee navigator's seats with my head in an astrodome, even during the roller landings. When we got back our CO went potty as he didn't know where I'd gone and I'd been reported missing - no-one but the crew knew I was aboard!

I was surprised to discover recently that RAF Manby had a grass field with no concrete runways.

[PPRuNeUser0139]

Nothing like a picture of an aircraft you flew in years ago - especially when it looks as forlorn as this one - to remind you of the passage of anno domini... that tick follows tock.
3 trips/10hrs 35mins at 6FTS in 1973 - seems like yesterday.
And in among all the names of the Varsity pilots in my logbook is one Flt Lt Burridge.. wonder what happened to him?

sv

[henry crun]

I cannot vouch for this story because it came to me about 3rd hand, but I believe it to be basically true.

One night back in the 1950's the GCA at Tangmere took a N/F Meteor through the top of a tree well short of the threshhold.
The damage wasn't too bad, change the ventral tank, remove some foliage from the intakes and undercarriage, etc.

Consternation ! the GCA is placed u/s and the Sigs Sqd who checked/calibrated the nav aids was called for.

The Varsity arrived next evening but it was dark by the time they were ready to fly.
Not to worry, away they went to carry out their check, and the CGA put them through the same tree, but this time it entailed work for the panel beaters. :)

[JW411]

We used to do an exercise where we flew level at 700 ft with the gear and the flaps down towards the runway in use. When the threshold disappeared below the nose we then closed the throttles and stuffed the nose down to make a glide approach and landing.

I still think it was awesome!

[forget]

It must have been about 1958. I was passenger in a car driving down the A1. Lying wheels up, on what I think was a north-bound section of unfinished motorway, sat a Varsity. Anyone know more?

[JW411]

I cannot find a Varsity that fits your description but I offer up the following as a possible solution:

Valetta T.3 WJ467 228OCU

Lost height on single-engined approach and bellylanded 3m NW of Leeming on 6.8.58.

[forget]

Well done JW:ok: That would have to be it. At least I got the year right!

[treadigraph]

I cna recall a story about a Varsity that touched down short in a field somewhere, Dishforth I think, bounced over the A1 presumably with the aid of some power and landed properly on the runway - any truth in that one?

The Varsity accident in '84 concerned G-BDFT - another casualty was the founder of Flypast, Mike Twite.

Only Varsities I ever saw flying were the RAE Farnborough aircraft which were regulars over my school, and an American registered one I saw at Biggin in about 1978 - took off and did a couple of low runs along 29 before presumably heading across the Pond. Wonder whatever became of it?

[chevvron]

Back in '74, there was one operaitng out of West Malling c/s 'Bluebell 1'. It just seemed to circle round the Gatwick Control Zone every day; possibly a maintenance base?

[JW411]

I seem to remember that the Hercules 264 in the Varsity was a derated Hermes engine but it was still pretty powerful.

As someone mentioned before it was a very smooth sleeve valve engine. I can remember someone saying that the definition of a genius was someone who could describe the principles of a sleeve valve engine without the use of a blackboard or a working model!

We used to change gear at around 6,000 ft in the climb (from M to S I think) and it used to go very, very quiet. This was the perfect time to fail an engine on your mate for it would take him ages to find out.

Now the Hercules had a thing in it called a "double-beat reset valve". This expression has stuck with me for 44 years but I do not have a clue as to what such a valve actually did! Can anyone out there illuminate me?

[SPIT]

Hi
When I was a little Air Cadet we had our Summer Camp at raf Topcliffe in the early 60s.To get everyone airborne for AEF the flew (Night Flights) us in Varsitys. To say we were not impressed would be a gross understatement when the Pilot offered us a greasy Sausage Roll that ha had been keeping warm on a heater under the seat and also we were terrified that a window was going to fly out over the N SEA (that's when we found out that ADRENALIN IS BROWN)To add to that we were all issued harnesses for chest type chutes and in mid flight some Idiot deproyed his chute (TO SEE IF IT WORKED):eek: :eek: :D :D

[Blacksheep]

...some Idiot deproyed his chute (TO SEE IF IT WORKED)Don't keep us in suspense. Did it?

[Foul-Sudan]

I well remember a Varsity arriving at Valley circa '61 driven by a Master Pilot whose face had worn out three bodies. Passing over Snowdonia the aircraft had hit a standing wave causing considerable mayhem.
A Signaller,sitting unstrapped in the right hand seat was sent on an airbourne inspection of the aircraft interior, narrowly missing a groundcrew bod who was making bouncing cycles from the bomb aimers couch to the top of the aircraft. The aircraft ladder too, joined in, until embedding itself in the fuselage. Reports of a WAAF screaming in the Elsen proved unfounded.
The ashen faced Pilot spilt his first coffee with handshake when safely on the ground.
I recall being only mildly concerned re standing waves at Valley given my overpowered Vampire experience until the following month when we were all posted on Varsity training!

[DH106]

Anyone know any history for the Varsity that used to be on the LBA/EGNM fire dump until the runway extension in the mid 80's. I think it was WL678.
Did it just come from straight the RAF?

Coupla times as kids in the late 70's we used to sneak under a hole in the fence and go have a look round this semi-burnt out beast. I remember the spar running straight through the fus. and the stripped out cockpit. One engine was detached on it's own - sitting apart with it's prop and looked really new.

[JW411]

It says here:

WL678 527/116/115 Sqns. Sold 21.5.70 to Leeds Airport for fire practice.

[DH106]

It says here:

WL678 527/116/115 Sqns. Sold 21.5.70 to Leeds Airport for fire practice.

You're right - it does say it here ;) cos you've just written it ;)
Gimmie a clue - what's your source ?

[JW411]

Air-Britain Royal Air Force Aircraft WA100 - WZ999.

I remember the standing wave Varsity with the Polish pilot. Was the WAAF not downstairs in the bomb aiming compartment?

[SPIT]

Hi Blacksheep
Yes it did and the rest of the personel in the a/c were NOT AMUSED:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Pom Pax]

We used to change gear at around 6,000 ft in the climb (from M to S I think) and it used to go very, very quiet.


Some time back I asked a question about this procedure and the replies are found here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108012)

[Vick Van Guard]

Only Varsities I ever saw flying were the RAE Farnborough aircraft which were regulars over my school, and an American registered one I saw at Biggin in about 1978 - took off and did a couple of low runs along 29 before presumably heading across the Pond. Wonder whatever became of it?
I think that became N65338, which suffered a rather spectacular landing accident in El Paso in 1983. :eek: :eek:
Details can be found here: http://aviation-safety.net/database/type/type.php?type=494

[Vick Van Guard]

Ok just to prove I wasn't exaggerating about the demise of the American Varsity:
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n18/JohnManson/varsitycrash.jpg

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[chevvron]

Narrow runway, or was it a road?

[Vick Van Guard]

From the Aviation Safety Website:

Narrative:
The Varsity aircraft landed hard with the right main gear off the side of the runway, causing the undercarriage to collapse. Due to the impact, the left wing folded aft and the right wing twisted 30 degrees leading edge down. The aircraft wheel track is only 4 feet less than the width of the runway. The pilot did not have a type rating for the Varsity plane.

PROBABLE CAUSE:
"Judgment .. poor .. pilot in command
Overconfidence in personal ability .. pilot in command
Level off .. misjudged .. pilot in command
Inadequate initial training .. pilot in command
Lack of total experience in type of aircraft .. pilot in command
Unsuitable terrain or takeoff/landing/taxi area .. selected .. pilot in command
Proper alignment .. not attained .. pilot in command
CONTRIBUTING FACTORS:
Flight/nav instruments,airspeed indicator .. inoperative" :=

[treadigraph]

Thanks Vick, that is indeed the one (my memory is getting better, I've stopped eating chocolate!). Sad end for a nice aeroplane.

[Kolibear]

What was the relationship, (if any), between the Wellington, Viking, Varsity & Valletta?

Obviously, the geodetic construction was abandoned after the Wellington (Warwick?) but was the Viking a civilianised, monocoque development of the Wimpey?

It was all a bit before my time.