Bucc OCU

[PPRuNeUser0139]

Beagle's post on the 'How many mates have you seen chopped' thread reminded me that over the years I've heard many mentions of the legendary and notorious Buccaneer OCU.
Are there any stories out there? (no names needed) What was the ethos of the place..? Were the instructors drawn from a common aircraft type? From what I gather, the OCU instructors had their own agenda about who was worthy to pass the course and become a member of the Bucc club. When 12 arrived at Lossie in the 70s, they had the strongest squadron identity of any sqn I ever came across. Perhaps this was the result of making it ultra exclusive.
One of my old mates (nav) was a Bucc choppee but he never did talk about it.

[ShyTorque]

I held there in the mid 1970s, working on the Ops desk prior to BFTS. I was given very little training at all, just left to it, all by myself, after a couple of shifts.

Sorry to say I had never met such a grumpy bunch in all my life, with one or two exceptions, such as Paul Robertshaw and Steve Noble (sadly, Steve was killed during a Red Arrows' Gnat accident, not long afterwards).

I'll never forget the "squawk box" going on my first solo ops shift. A Wg Cdr upstairs (not his real name, it began with "P" ) bellowing something along the lines of: "Book me a LEPUS and TOSS at Jurby - and tell them I want full Goosenecks..click"

I didn't have the first idea what he was talking about! I hadn't been briefed on any aircraft weapons, attack profiles or even where the ranges were or what they were called, so there were at least four terms in there I'd never heard of before :confused:

I picked up my pencil and paper, buzzed back, apologised and asked him to repeat the message.
After the immediate almighty bollocking I received, I never made the mistake of asking the old fart anything again :bored:

I soon resolved I most definitely did NOT want ever to return to 237 OCU in any capacity. :(

[BEagle]

I arrived at Honington to find that all students were squeezed into Mess annex 'Orlit' huts in rooms the size of a broom cupboard - whilst beanstealers various lived in the real rooms for free.

Our 'welcome drinks' evening was an 'ignore the students and talk amongst yourselves' session amongst the staff - we sat on a rolled up carpet and swapped notes. The wife of the Grumpy Old Wg Cdr snootily asked one of the wives "And which course are you?".. Big mistake - she'd crossed swords with Gilly, the fiery little Scots wife of the ab-initio nav who promptly put her right..."I am not on any course! My husband is Fg Off B***y A******n - he's sitting over there with his friends!". (He later graduated - the only ab-initio nav to do so).

Then we had our intro to the Stn Cdr. This shaven-headed martinet stormed in wearing his goon suit, glared at everyone - then told us that most of us would probably fail the course. Then stormed out. (Rumour has it he later fell foul of a paternity suit after a Red Flag det when some American woman turned up on his doorstep with a baby and announced "This is yours!". Rumour, I hasten to add!).

As for the staff, the best guy was probably 'Firm but fair' Bruce Chapple. An excellent pilot and someone who demanded high standards. But who actually gave credit on the rare occasions it was due... But, bar one or two such as Rick W and Steve N, the rest of the RAF pilots were very cliquey and unpleasant. The RN back seaters were good guys, as were a few (very few) of the RAF ones, such as 'Pidge' Holme. As for the RN 'pilots', there was one bearded poseur who used to strut around in a 'uniform' consisting of RN shirt, tie, trousers and mess boots plus a USN leather jacket....

One day a notice went up inviting everyone to a Dining In Night. It actually said 'Order of priority - 1. Those who didn't go last time. 2. Those who did go last time. 3. Students'. When Rick W was despatched to find why none of us had put our names down, Joe 'Mad Dog' H laid into him..."Because it's bloody obvious you don't want us there!".

Given the fact that I was hardly the best student in the world, plus the appallingly bad learning environment, it wasn't long before I went up on my final trip with a thoroughly unpleasant piece of work in the back. At some stage he announced that we'd had a simulated birdstrike and lost the intercomm - so do your own PD to Coningsby. Now, since we'd been taught that the Bucc was a crew aircraft, this was probably a double if not triple emergency. Got out my FRCs, waded through pages of drills, then flew a GCA to Coningsby. But made the mistake of flying it 45-25-25 blown instead of 45-10-10 unblown or 30-20-20 blown (both SE configurations and a good idea in case you lost a donk - although there was nothing to remind you of such in the FRCs). Lost the debrief, a few months off and then off to the brilliant Vulcan world for 3 fantastic years after a thoroughly enjoyable time holding at Biggin Hill (ahh - those Fighter Controller girls...) and a JP refesher course!

I later heard that 237 had come under the spotlight for using 100% of their hours, but graduating 30% of their allocated students. Then the 'staff bombing competitions' and the like came to the surface, and things evidently changed.

237 OCU? Without a shadow of a doubt the worst 4 months of my RAF career.

[allan907]

Having spent 3 years at Honington (80-83) it was obvious that some of the graduates of 237 OCU were tossers of the first order. However, some of them were good - very good, Jock Frizzell to name a few! I guess that things had lightened up a bit by then though although the boss of 208 (a farm implement) was a nasty piece of work to anyone who wasn't aircrew.

[facsimile]

Went through 237 OCU in early 70's and spent 7 years flying the Bucc. The OCU was unique in that most of the pilot conversion was done by navigators. Great bunch of blokes doing a very difficult job teaching from the back seat of an aircraft they had no control over.

Would prefer to hear the opinions of those that successfully completed the course rather than a bunch of has beens who never got over being chopped from the best job they never had.

[ShyTorque]

Good to hear the alternative viewpoint, but if you don't want to read that of others, you could always start your own, exclusive thread..... :hmm:

(Although I can't really be described as a "has been who never got over being chopped from the best job I never had")

P.S. you were that grumpy Wg Cdr Upstairs, weren't you? :E

[BEagle]

"Great bunch of blokes doing a very difficult job teaching from the back seat of an aircraft they had no control over."

Teaching? Teaching??

An alien concept to most of the ones I knew. Except for one or two and most of the RN back-seaters, that is. I once had a tyre burst on landing in formation. My RN back-seater confirmed that everything was normal and I was adamant that my feet were off the brakes. But the lead pilot (237 OCU staff) claimed that I had obviously landed with brakes on. The SOR was an utter fabrication - and some weeks later the JEngO told me that the maxaret on the side of the failure had been found to be unserviceable. Being harrassed by the staff was one thing, being lied about was another....

Another endearing habit the 237 OCU staff had was to doctor the course photo. Anyone chopped would have his head cut off and put in a heap at the bottom; anyone ex-V force was branded 'VFW' (V Force W*nk*r)

Years later the Bucc OCU was at Wattisham whilst Honington had some WiP. A totally different bunch of people - although 1 Bucc did stoof in on the approach. Fortunately both crew got out OK.

[Neptunus Rex]

Like you, I was posted to Honington, but on the Shack squadron, and found myself languishing in those ghastly huts out back. Then they appointed me Mess Secretary. I devised a cunning plan, my lord, to have all the rooms in the main Mess allocated to bachelor officers on a points system according to rank, seniority and time spent in the huts. When I used the Warning In book to show how few days various married men had spent in the Mess in the preceding year, the PMC, God bless him, approved the scheme and ALL the beanstealers were booted out of the main mess to make way for single living in officers. Seemed to work.
Cheers,
Neppie:cool:

[Pontius Navigator]

NR,

You were lucky. QRs specifically forbade that action. An officer was allowed to select his own room from those suitable for his rank. Once resident only the stn cdr could get him to move and then only for very specific reasons and 'in writing'.

I think it is even tighter now that you pay for your room. Only right and proper too; imagine if a stn cdr could move the FQ residents willy nilly - 'that street is only for xx Sqn.'

At Finningley PMC/OC ANS wanted to shift all the blokes arounf to create a female wing when the new breeders came in. That didn't happen. Some would not move and the women didn't want special treatment and wanted to be near their course buddies.

[Yellow Sun]

Neptunus Rex,

Pse see your PMs

YS

Pontius,
An officer was allowed to select his own room from those suitable for his rank.

Maybe so, but a similar system was introduced at Wyton in the late 80s to allow the BLIs a chance of getting some the suites. The senior "liver in" was a beany army officer and he led by example and gave his up, no problem.

YS

[BEagle]

At Honington we even had a beanstealer who had still had a married quarter at Wittering. He used to slope off early on Fridays in order to make the Wittering Happy Hour...

But then again, at least it meant he didn't have to share the OM bar with the 237 OCU staff.

Maybe he had the right idea?

[foldingwings]

I was there on the staff of 237 for my 3rd tour on Buccs from 78 - 81. Yes, the mid-70s period was a harsh regime, inherited I might add from 736. However, it had to be harsh because of the environment flown and the idiosynchrasies of the jet (we were training RAF people to the deck in those days as well as for RAF sqns). None would surely deny that the Bucc was a very difficult aircraft to operate, particularly in the circuit, and those who were not up to it had to be weeded out. A harsh fact but it was a very selective team and had to be to get the job done professionally. Anybody want to disagree with the effectiveness of the Bucc on Ops or Red Flag or low level over land or sea as just 3 examples?

BEagle,

You've told us all your 237 woes before, the last time someone brought up the 237 OCU issue. I do not condone the manner of 237 in the mid-70s but this is not just another opportunity for you to vent your spleen against the Buccaneer guys who suspended you from training. This must be manna from heaven for you!

Please tell us again, how you were also chopped from F4s! You see, there are some who were cut out for fast jets and some who just weren't - but it was about 30 years ago, so give it a rest.

FW

[BEagle]

FW - as you will have read, the OCU in your era 78-81 was vastly different from the era some 2-3 years earlier. I probably met you at WTM in the early '80s when you guys deployed there and I was very pleased to see how things had changed by then.

Have I ever made it a secret that I agreed that I wasn't cut out for FJs? Compared to the vile atmosphere of Honington in 1977, my departure from the F4 world was both reasonable and civilised. As stated personally by the WTM Stn Cdr - he even asked me back for a dining-out night. Thoroughly good bloke - unlike that POS at Honington.

Did enjoy sending my old sqn peeps a postcard from Honk Kong during my VC10 course though! Told them I hoped that they were getting plenty of night Profit trips and loads of Ph 3 VIDs..:rolleyes:

But the fact remains that 237OCU in the mid-70s was an appalling organisation. Sorry, but that's the truth.

[O2thief]

FW
I was wondering how long it would take for you to take up the cudgel! What's wrong, have you been on leave/course/detachment? Good to see that senior rank hasn't dulled your banter :D :ok: Luv to her indoors.
O2Thief