Just caught the end of a Discovery Wings (sad I know) programme about the all time greatest fighters.

Seems the P51 Mustang was voted the best:confused:

Whereas, quite obviously, it is the Supermarine Spitfire.

The Spitfire is the PURE device, whereas the Mustang was the Mule that had greater capacity (ie longer range) therefore it was more effective.
Horses for courses.

The Merlin engine (from the Spitfire) was necessary to make the Mustang the success that it was.
Remember the Spitfire preceeded the Mustang by several years. Whilst not a direct copy, the experience gained with the Spitfire (and Hurricane) were invaluable.
The Mustang more than any other fighter wrested control of the skies over Germany from the Luftwaffe; combining a British designed engine and American airframe it was quite simply one of the best fighter aircraft built during the Second World War.
Following a visit by the British Purchasing Mission, North American started design of the Mustang fighter in April 1940. The prototype was completed in just a hundred days and made its first flight in September 1940. The aircraft was far superior in performance to any contemporary American fighter.
North American received a large contract from the British Government and the first Mustangs reached the United Kingdom in October 1941. The early aircraft were fitted with an American Allison engine and had an impressive low-altitude performance, but later Mustangs were fitted with American-built Rolls Royce Merlin engines and these provided an all-round improvement making the aircraft one of the outstanding fighters of the Second World War.
I'm not sure, but the Hurricane probably had a greater success rate than the Spitfire (over Britain).
HAWKER HURRICANE single-seat fighters of the Royal Air Force have seen more action in the Second World War than has any other type and they have shot down more enemy aeroplanes than any other fighter.

The Spitfire is the best aircraft to FLY.

The Merlin engine (from the Spitfire) was necessary to make the Mustang the success that it was.

And therein lies the answer for me...the sound that engine makes...........:ok:

Sorry I'm going to sit on the fence (with a funnel for the horse). I like 'em both. But I'm British so the Spitfire gets my vote. As does the Mustang. Errrr...

RR pilot Ronnie Harker apparently sampled the Allison P-51A and commented apropros of "stick a Merlin in it..."

But just to upset the purists. I like my Spitfires Griffon powered!

I like my Spitfires Griffon powered!
That's like a 1964 TVR Griffith (in more ways than one).

Neither, I like the F-4U Corsair. Spitfires and P-51's are for show ponies, I just like to get the job done!!:ok:

I like the F-4U Corsair.
Brute force - now we're talking about a 427 Cobra

It's true that Ford revolutionised the sports car when they made the Mustang. Finally a beautiful, powerful car could be mass produced at an affordable price.

Still I wouldn't rule out the Triumph Spitfire, it had equally impressive lines, and specifications though it was never the success the Mustang was and of course still is.

Still I wouldn't rule out the Triumph Spitfire, it had equally impressive lines, and specifications though it was never the success the Mustang was and of course still is.
6 cylinder engine and revised rear suspension improved the Triumph enormously!

I'm staggered that you would herald that news with such vitesse.

Since the gremlins deleted the post I was writing, I won't repeat it. :* :mad: :mad: :mad:


Spitfire - close combat.

Mustang - long range escort, designed much later, using a stolen engine. Dead meat to a Spitfire in a dogfight.


We'd have won the War without the Mustang. We'd have lost it without the Spifire and Hurricane.


Wonder why they never fitted drop tanks more to English fighters (later on, I mean)? :confused:

CAC Boomerang! Now there's an aircraft that struck fear into the RAAF chaps!

Yep, avoid them cac boomerangs, or you could be in the sh!t.

I've flown a Mustang but not a Spitfire. If someone could arrange it, I'd be happy to make an informed comparison. :O

Merlin engines…. Ahhh pure mechanical magic!
During my final year as a Rolls-Royce apprentice for one of the tasks assigned to us trainee oiks, we were put into teams of four and given several crates of bits marked MERLIN and told to rebuild it and make it run. Once finished, our project was taken to the test beds and run-up.
The evocative sound of that beast still rings in my ears. Somehow the Packard Merlin didn’t sound quite the same.
I believe ‘my engine’ as it became known is still used as a display model at the De-Havilland Heritage Museum.

The only airframe iconic enough for such a mechanical masterpiece is the Spitfire or possibly, at a pinch, a Mosquito, none of this ugly square winged Mustang lark.

Spitfires, Mustangs, Hurricanes, Merlins, W.H.Y.? They're fine. But let's also hear it for the wonderful Sea Fury!

ILS Repeater - these should bring back a few memories. I took them at the National Air and Space Museum in Washington, DC...
http://img304.imageshack.us/img304/7464/m23ax.th.jpg (http://img304.imageshack.us/my.php?image=m23ax.jpg)http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/8906/m42zo.th.jpg (http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=m42zo.jpg)

let's also hear it for the wonderful Sea Fury!
:ok:

Even better would be to hear a Sea Fury.

Phwoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar! :cool:

Neither, I like the F-4U Corsair. Spitfires and P-51's are for show ponies, I just like to get the job done!!:ok:

Now we're talking :ok: Saw a few while in the US a few years ago. I must admit I am also a big fan of the Grumman Hellcat :D , they are most impressive as well :ok:

Nice pics Stagger.... but if it don't say RollyRoyce on the valve covers it ain't a Merlin !

Wonder why they never fitted drop tanks more to English fighters (later on, I mean)?

Silly me......I forgot. The English singlehandedley won the air war.

Remind what the Poles, Canadians, Czechs, South Africans, Americans Scots, Irish, Welsh etc etc did?

Remind what the Poles, Canadians, Czechs, South Africans, Americans Scots, Irish, Welsh etc etc did?
Beat the Russians?

You are all wrong. The best fighter of WW2 was clearly the FW190.

Back on topic, the P-51 gets my vote... :ok:

Apples and oranges again.

The Spitfire was a defensive fighter.

The P-51 was a long range offensive fighter.

The Japaneses Zero was more maneuverable that either the Spitfire or the P-51.

Me, heck I'd give me left you know what to fly either one.:ok:


(But sadly, I'm probably to blasted tall to fit into a Spitfire.:{ )

If we have to get back on topic (how boring!) then clearly the Mustang was the more important fighter. Just as the Hurricane was more important than the Spitfire during the BoB. But then looks always won over the public.

No doubt a Spitfire is more sexy than a Hurricane. But not necessarily the more effective of the two. But then I think a P-51B looks better than a D model. Pehaps I am just old fashioned.

I'll go with brute force and say the P-47. :E

As a young rooster learning to fly every ex airforce man I met flew Spitfires.
There were no mechanics , lorry drivers ,camp cooks , etc.....they all flew Spitfires.
There musta been thousands of the bloody things.:rolleyes:

CAC Boomerang! Now there's an aircraft that struck fear into the RAAF chaps!
...but at least you could guarantee it'd bring you back to your starting point

Con try the Kissimee (sp) P 51
Im six one and theres tons of room ,lotta fun real pussycat.

Take $$$ money :hmm:

..but at least you could guarantee it'd bring you back to your starting point

...ummmm...:bored:...not all of them.:(

Hey Chesty Morgan,

I’ve got some time in the (P-51), “it’s a handful”, but I can only dream about ever flying a Spitfire… What a magnificent machine, that elliptical wing…

I guess I missed my time…

Since I never close any doors (with respect to my hopes and dreams), it’ll give me something to look forward to...

Thank you for the thread.

Take care

Bill

As an American, I've always been annoyed with the continual propaganda of "Mustang is the Greatest! Mustang is the Greatest!". Because if anything is repeated enough, it must be propaganda. :8

So I vote Spitfire!

Disclaimer: I say this on the condition that I believe the UK never made anything good except the Spitfire, and thus may retain my US citizenship. Any form of Anglophilism on my part is merely coincidental. :E

FW190... twas a later design and took into account all the actual weaknesses exposed in dogfights in the 109. Higher roll rate, top speed, acceleration, lighter controls... it's gotta be a Focke-Wulf :E

(Spitfire was/is a great aircraft, as Geoff Wellum describes in First Light)

Well the best would have been the P 38
Higher ROC than both P51 and Spit, power controls (the Mustang gets damn heavy above 250kts), fast enough and 2 engines to bring you home.

Con the Zero was fine below 250kts but it was soon learned to dive away and not mix it.
It often fell to bits if it was stressed to much.
No substitute for speed and ability to climb fast.

Spitfire. Love it.:ok:
Check it below.

Caution Frequent use of "F" word used

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdPqK5bNte8&search=spitfire

Its a wonder this thread hasnt been moved to Aviation History where the purists would be able to ignore it .

Had the pleasure of viewing the F4U, P51 and Spitfire at Wanaka this Easter past, but the machine that brought a tear to my eye and a lump to my throat was the Yakovlev YAK3m, albeit with an Alison V12 in place of the Klimov. What a wee darling and an elipitcal (sort of) wing too!!

Con,
Have an amusing story about a US Marine pilot who was given operational control over one of the few remaining USAF P-51's back in the 60's or 70's and how he taunted the Air Force chaps with it. When time permits.
Come on then, thee with "glass half empty", let's be hearing it :D

As a young rooster learning to fly every ex airforce man I met flew Spitfires.
There were no mechanics , lorry drivers ,camp cooks , etc.....they all flew Spitfires.
There musta been thousands of the bloody things.


20,351 altogether. As a Brat and later junior magician, nearly every pilot I ever met had flown the damned things too. Until 1954 the RAuxAF had thirteen squadrons of bloody Spitfires in service. The last offensive sorties were flown by 60 Squadron against communist insurgents in Malaya in 1951 (the origin of the expression "Alamak! Spitfire!"?) and the last RAF operational flight was by a PR19 on 01 April 1954, also in Malaya.

Originally, the British ordered this design, whose fuselage was actually designed by one of the German designers responsible for the famous Me109 by the way, from the Americans. As already stated above the original American engines almost caused the plane to die an early age. It really came alive with the Merlin engines.

Chuck Yeager said the more experienced and talented a pilot, the more he preferred the Spitfire over the Mustang.

The role of both the Spitfire and Mustang are exaggerated, 75% of Mustang kills were of planes either on the ground, just taking off or just landing and not the Spitfire but the Hurricane was the decisive factor in the Battle of Brittain.

The Spitfire was a better dogfighter, but the Mustang was best at high altitude, greater range and therefore the best escort fighter. The Spitfire was better in turns and loops, the P51 in rolls and therefore Immelmans.

Leaves me wondering why they didn't made a carrier version of the P51.

I would love to fly either one .
I flew with a pilot who had not flown since the end of the war .His daughter had arranged an airtour over his house. She told me that he used to fly in WW2 .As an instructor i told him it did not matter what seat i sat in and if he did not mind i would prefer to sit in the right today.
I asked to "help" me as i was feeling lazy and watched as a man who had not flown since WW2 became part of the machine.
We flew a little longer than was usual for an airtour ,we saw his house from the air ,flew up some inlets (fjords) around some mountains .
It was nice to see an old warrior enjoy himself .
He had been raising his family since his last flight in WW2 and now they had repaid his love and kindness with a gift of flight for his birthday.
Sometimes it does not matter what you fly just what you do with the equipment.

Since the thread has already drifted to include comparisons with other aeroplanes....

A flying friend of mine once (mis?)quoted the late great Ginger Lacey as saying:

"If you want to spend an afternoon enjoying the sweetest aerobatics flying, take a Spitfire. If you want to go kill someone, take a Hurricane!"

...or something along those lines.

For the pedants, no, I can't confirm the accuracy of this "quote"!

2R, I hope the old bugger gets a few more "birthday presents" like that - he deserves it, we all owe our way of life to guys like that:D

Lady Singaporegirl writes: I've flown a Mustang but not a Spitfire. If someone could arrange it, I'd be happy to make an informed comparison.

Check this out:http://www.tigerairways.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25&Itemid=36

Su-25 Frogfoot: still in production, built like a rock, excellent unprepared-surface performance and best of all, runs well on No. 2 Diesel.

Cessna 337: blends in better with the civil population!

But seriously, if it has to be British and a single-seater...

Hunter FGA.9 !!!!!!!!!

I came close to buying a P51D back in 1978. Ex target tug down at Nowra. there were two of them and both in top condition. There were also a bunch of zero time engines still in the box. $A85K for the aircraft and about $A10K for the merlins......Ah what might have been....was on the bones of me bum at the time so t'was not to be. As for the better aircraft, horses for courses. Mind you if you got low, slow and sloppy in a P51 it could kill you real quick.:)

Very interesting Capt.KAOS, some nice facts. If I had to choose between them two I'd probably go with the Spit although the Mustang is just as great. At the end of the day though, I'll put my bet on the Kurfürst 109.