VULCAN 607

[jimgriff]

Has anyone read the new book VULCAN 607 by Roland White? (Bantam Books)

I have just finished the book and enjoyed it.

Was it really as touch and go as written about? Were parts really begged, stolen and borrowed as described to get three fit Vulcans ready for the op?

Much respect to all involved.

[peppermint_jam]

Not read the book as yet, but i know there was a huge problem trying to source IFR probes, same type as Herc and Nimrod I believe. XL361 preserved in RAF Goose Bay had hers 'borrowed' for the campaign.

[UAV689]

half way thru the book and it is a winner, recommended to all

[jimgriff]

Great book.

I remember listening to Aberporth Range control on freq X as they were trailing the shrike fit. Never heard such a rushed test!
There was lots being fired at the time by lots of interesting stuff both floating and flying!!:suspect:

Is it true that the Vulcan didn't have a fuel jettison system?

[Pontius Navigator]

Not read the book as yet, but i know there was a huge problem trying to source IFR probes, same type as Herc and Nimrod I believe. XL361 preserved in RAF Goose Bay had hers 'borrowed' for the campaign.

You are not suggesting that the Vulcan borrowed probes from the C130 and Nimrod are you?

All 3 were emergency operational requirements. The probe tip of course is a standard fitment to fit the NATO standard basket.

[Pontius Navigator]

Further to the lack of fuel jettison.

Initially this was perceived as a problem as the maximum landing weight was 140000 lbs which meant that an aircraft getting airborne with 70000 lb of fuel had to burn off about 30000 lbs which could take between 2-3 hours.

This led to the fatal crash at Cottesmore when the aircraft flew a number of circuits 'burning off' which it had a bombbay overheat. As the bombbay temperature increased the elevon control became increasingly limited until control was eventually lost at a weight very near 140000 lbs. I think they were actually on the final circuit.

After that, re-reading the clearance documents it was apparent that the aircraft was actually cleared to land at any cleared take-off weight. Only if the aircraft was landed above 140000 lbs then it would have to undergo heavy landing checks. It was the avoidance of heavy landing checks that led to many problems.

Before we condemn the wheels then in the light of today's mores, we must remember this was at the height of the cold war and the station commander's mission was to ensure that he could met his generation requirements in as short a time as possible. Typically it was to generate 24 aircraft to 15 minutes readiness in a time as short as 5 hours.

The last thing a stn cdr wanted was a jet unnecessarily in the shed. With the handover of the QRA element to the RN this knife edge posture was slowly relaxed.

[allan907]

Honington (where I was at the time) had taken delivery of one of the 'fire dump' Vulcans and engineers were round quick smart to whip off the refuelling probe for a Nimrod or C130 or whatever.

As an aside, the remaining fuel in the Vulcan (minimums for landing) was used to keep the heating plant of the swimming pool going for quite a while. Then the OC Supply Sqn realised that if he kept putting fuel in the top then it could be legally used from the bottom as "waste" fuel. That kept the pool warm for another couple of years until a more anally retentive OC Supply was posted in. Then they burnt the Vulcan

[Hirsutesme]

Then they burnt the Vulcan

:{ :{ :{ :{ :{ :{ :{ :( :( :( :(

[Shadwell the old]

I remember taking off from Waddo with full fuel of 98+16 (98% in the main tanks and 16,000 lbs in the bomb bay tanks). Just after take off (passing about 3,000 feet) there was a strong smell of burning. I looked behind me (I was the AEO) to see smoke and little flames coming from the black boxes (probably be called LRUs or LRIs these days) under the co pilot's seat. As I called it we bunted over the top as we did a visual circuit to land. Dont know what the landing weight was, but must have been as close to the maximum as you could get.

We stopped with not a lot of runway to spare and as we got out we chocked the nosewheel with the nav plotter (or was it his nav bag - the memory is going), and ran away bravely. We were about number 4 in a long stream of aircraft off to fly an exercise. Think we disrupted the stream. Oh well.

Shadwell - getting older by the minute.

[FJJP]

Or getting airborne after a night of heavy rain and on rotate a torrent water pouring down onto the flying control start/stop panel?

Did a very fast vis cct to land at max AUW with stream.

When the panel was stripped, substantial quantity of water ran out. Sheer luck that no short circuits occurred or....

[Shadwell the old]

I remember they came in with a mod to stop water getting into the PFCU control panel. Dont think it was too expensive to implement but the research and clearance by Boscombe must have cost a fortune.

What was the mod? A piece of polythene sheeting placed strategically so that the water or river that leaked through the canopy would flow off into other nooks and crannies unknown. Often wonder where it ended up.

On the subject of "water". Remember guesting with a crew on an exercise where we carried a shape. We went airborne for ages, and Shadwells bladder overfull caption light came on. As I needed to empty it, I used the pee tube. Much relief after fumbling about in the flaps of my immersion suit. Thought no more of it. When we landed, as was the practise Nav Radar has to slide down the door to let the chief in to the NLZ. OOps Shadwells pee tube had leaked (split not a badly placed bung) and the contents of my bladder had found the lowest point - around the door seal - and frozen, but was now melting. I couldnt leave my panel (honest) so the nav radar had to be the one to get out. As in the best traditions of aircrew and not wanting to swim in my pi$$, he improvised. To the fore comes the plastic sheet used to cover the PFCU control panel. Speaking to the chief later, he was flabbergasted to see this officer in his immersion suit come toboganning out of a Vulcan on a plastic sheet followed by a river. The plotter (Kev Weekes God rest his soul), almost wet himself with laughter. However, his mirth was short lived when he realised that the pi$$ on its way to the door had travelled via the base of his nav bag! We must have been flying slightly one wing down, because my nav bag was completely dry. Ho hum!

Shadwell

[BEagle]

Even with 98+16 you would be well short of max weight - unless you were carrying 21000 of bombs as well.

I was told some rather interesting story of a jet losing 2 at Scampton in earlier days - with 98+A&E and a wet Blue Tool. Fortunately on RW23 - God bless the Lincoln Edge!

[Art Field]

On the IFR probe nozzles for the Vulcans in Corporate, they were standard Mk8, FR Ltd nozzles as used throughout the RAF. The fitting to the tubing on the nose of the aircraft was different however and initially caused major problems with considerable fuel splash flaming out engines and creating vision difficulties when in contact. Thanks to prompt work by FR reps, working all hours and with a can do attitude which at other times can be hard to find in British industry, the cure was found. IFRR it involved fitting extra shims of a particular shape twix nozzle and probe as detailed in long lost drawings. Another example of the "oh we will never need to do that again" attitude which Corporate exposed.

[BEagle]

And the "We won't need to do that again" lesson appears not to have been learned with the end of the Canberra PR9's unique recce capabilities!

[cheese bobcat]

The problem wasn't getting probes for the Vulcans, it was getting probes for everything else (Nimrods and Hercs mainly). They even had the cheek to rob some of our aircraft at Wad.

Ever tried taxying a Vulcan without a probe?

Not recommended for the faint-hearted.

[BEagle]

Reading Vulcan 607 as I type and I am really pi$$ed off that I left the Vulcan force with a captaincy high-rec in my back pocket to go to the F4 at just the wrong moment! I would have been kicking the boss's door down to have been on Black Buck!

A couple of obvious points - no-one seems to have thought of non-dimensional engine rpm N/(sqrt T abs) - or the effect of high ISA dev on thrust and consequent fuel consumption to maintain the required thrust.. Presumably because it had been years since the Vs had operated at high AUW and high ISA dev at the same time?

Even (as Arters might agree) the routine UK fuel burn at high weight was mis-briefed by some utter chair-polishing ar$e at Bawtry ('Caligula'?). Yet we had learned this years earlier and the crew I was one used to modify our climb to height from Scampton to Goose before the increased burn at higher AoA kicked in. So we climbed at max chat to 390, then waited as long as possible before the climb to 430 approaching the ocean. Always saved us at least 2000lb!

The book has an immediacy which is well-researched and truly reflective of the times. Yes, crews got pi$$ed, smoked fags and swore - and some were perhaps gravitationally disadvantaged. But the whole V-force got together to conduct Black Buck - and it succeeded without all the stupidity of the present day 'yellow jacket' embuggerances. It was the sort of RAF I wanted to join and I'm glad I did. But that has now gone for ever and I'm not sure that, given the opportunity again, I would join today's RAF.

I've just spent a day with people agonizing over how to relabel a new tanker aircraft's audio control panels. Should it be V/UHF C instead of U-VHF 3 or what? And how do we label the back seat V/UHF radio......:\ Not quite the same as the likes of the Black Buck planners 'winging' the Wideawake recovery plan after all the Victors were coming home on fumes.....

[forget]

Pontius Nav, you say "This led to the fatal crash at Cottesmore when the aircraft flew a number of circuits 'burning off' which it had a bombbay overheat. As the bombbay temperature increased the elevon control became increasingly limited until control was eventually lost at a weight very near 140000 lbs. I think they were actually on the final circuit".

Not so. The only fatal AT Cottesmore was a turbine disc shooting through the bomb bay after a 'touch and go' and taking the control runs with it. I, with others, spent days looking for the disc in fields. Never did find it.

Aircraft was XM604. January 30th 1968. Two pilots survived, four in back lost. Crew Chief aboard

[gaunty]

As a 1946 born boomer who grew up with the Observers Book of Aircraft and besotted still with the "V" Bombers:ok:, what is this "probe" and why is "Ever tried taxying a Vulcan without" one "Not recommended for the faint-hearted". ?

Aaaaah the old BBCTV B & W Farnborough Air Show features from 1959? on in Oz, from a fixed reference point in my yoof watched the development of all these and other types.:D ;)

Closest I got to one was a Vulcan that came down to Perth for the Empire Games in 1962 for the opening by HM. We lived next door to the stadium and the plan view sight as it pulled straight up over the stadium during the practise runs was awe inspiring.

[Pontius Navigator]

Forget, thanks for that. I was on a ranger, I think, when it went in. I don't dispute it had a turbine disc failure and I accept that the issue was not the bombbay overheat that I thought.

I still believe that the root cause was the prolonged 'burning off' down to 140k because of the overheat. Had the ac been put on the ground immediately then the accident might have been avoided.

I understand that this was not th ecaptain's fault but the usual brains trust in th tower that was offering advice.

[Pontius Navigator]

the effect of high ISA dev on thrust and consequent fuel consumption to maintain the required thrust.. Presumably because it had been years since the Vs had operated at high AUW and high ISA dev at the same time?

UK fuel burn at high weight was mis-briefed

Yet we had learned this years earlier and the crew I was one used to modify our climb to height from Scampton to Goose before the increased burn at higher AoA kicked in. So we climbed at max chat to 390, then waited as long as possible before the climb to 430 approaching the ocean. Always saved us at least 2000lb!

I researched this area for a paper I have written on an earlier Op. I managed to borrow an ODM which still had the 301 unrestricted clime data in it. Without refering back, Beagle is quite right about the initial level off on restricted power. On unrestricted power the level off altitude for an ISA +20 departure to an ISA -10 cruise was between 430 and 450 at 192k.

Thereafter a cruise climb regime, if you we wearing pressure clothing, could be used. Of course on BB that was no longer an option.

The other thing that John Reeve noted, to his surprise, was that after the prod they said to the Victor, OK we're going up now, see you at the next prod. As he climbed so did the Victors draw away for they were flying nearer the trop and higher TAS for the colder you go so the slower you go!

It was quite an evolution working the Vulcan ODM and perghaps one not practised too often. The ISA Dev figures were in add on tables rather than the main sheets.

[FJJP]

I was duty pilot in the tower at Scampton when a certain senior captain and his crew collected a turbine disc breakup on rotate [the one Beags refers to earlier]. It was spectacular. A tube of flame twice the length of the aircraft appeared and the ac disappeared out of sight over the ridge for a few secs. When he re-appeared, the flames had gone and he was trailing black smoke [which diminished as the circuit progressed].

He staggered up to cct ht and went a long way upwind before turning downwind. Because the controller had hit the crash alarm, the tower rapidly filled up with the brains trust. When the DCF arrived, I reverted to logging every single event surrounding the incident, including decisions made by whoever. When captain called 'Mayday c/s downwind to land' the stn cdr [head of brains trust] told the controller to tell the captain to orbit 5 miles north 'whilst we sort the problem out'. He then went back into the huddle. The ac continued downwind.

He then called finals and head of brains trust adopted furious mantle at having his orders ignored. The orbit call was repeated but the captain specifically acknowledged that order and again asked for clearance to land. The controller, bless him, gave the surface wind and clearance to land, whereupon he removed his headset refusing to take any further part in this farce.

Ac landed, streamed the chute in full aerodynamic braking pose, stopped about 2/3 the way up the runway, the door opened and five figures scattered to the wind.

Stn Cdr was blazing mad - 'I'll see Flt Lt xxxx in my office immediately' - and stomped off. Nothing more was ever said about the tower fiasco, but I had logged everything - and I mean everything.

Next time I was duty pilot, I opened the logbook to have another look. The pages had been neatly cut out - as though the incident had never happened.

[ORAC]

Hmmm. advice from the tower.

IIRC there was the occasion when a CY F4 lost its outer wing working just off the Norfolk coast. The pilot found the aircraft was controllable and was holding at medium level, doing various low speed handling checks, when the tower brains trust suggested he see how it handled with flaps down. Pilot selects flaps down, hydraulic valves in wing open, total hydraulic failure follwed by double ejection.

Subsequent BOI finds pilot responsible as captain. No blame at all to brains trust, as they were only offering advice....

Moral - There can be only one...

[ExAvio]

Not quite the same as the likes of the Black Buck planners 'winging' the Wideawake recovery plan after all the Victors were coming home on fumes.....

To this day I am amazed at how it was worked out! AND without the use of an all-singing, all dancing PC!

You guys deserve more credit than you got.

[BEagle]

In my little Hawk at Chivenor, I did the (in those days) standard 'on, holding, off, exhausting' brake check downwind - only to find that one brake stayed showing max pressure. I had lots of fuel, so went round and round whilst the duty wheels scurried off to the tower. By throttling to idle and operating as many hydraulic bits simultaneously as I could, I was pretty certain that it was an indication snag as the Hawk wasn't capable of producing such high pressures with all services operating together (air brake in, gear dow and flaps down all at the same time....).

After much deliberation, the Duty Pilot (who was valiantly kicking all the high-priced help out of the tower) concurred with my idea. Anti-skid off, then touch down - if no burst tyre, feet off, anti-skid on. All went to plan, the only change being that after I'd put the anti-skid back on I applied max braking short of the anti-skid operating, so that if it had been some weird transient fault, then the difference between sides would be as little as possible. Then cleared the RW and shut down to await a tug. The Stn Cdr ('cement head') thought that was unnecessary......:(

We were always briefed as Duty Aircrew Officers at Sunny Scampton in V-force days that our main job was to lock the tower visual control room and take the phone off the hook to stop the idiot 'Brains Trust' rushing up to interfere!

[FantomZorbin]

FJJP

Re. your tower fiasco.

Seems to be an endemic type of 'decison taking' of The Brains Trust. I well remember an incident at FY in which I (a very humble ATCO) was told to land the a/c 'between the gusts':ugh: - that pearl came from OC Ops!!:*

[gaunty]

Eeeerm may I ask what is this "probe" and why is "Ever tried taxying a Vulcan without" one "Not recommended for the faint-hearted". ?:ok:

[BEagle]

AAR probe - it makes taxying easier as it provides good visual reference cues when trying to taxy a 'semi-detached house looking through the lavatory window' as it was once described to me.

On our bomb comp jet, we had 2 large day-glo rings around the probe which could act as a back up bomb sight for the height/weapon defined for the comp.

Whenever anyone (male or female) asked what they were for, we'd reply "Lipstick marks".... Well, this was before PC days!

[cheese bobcat]

BEagle,

Your mentioning PC reminded me that there was a suggestion that researchers into the effects of Cosmic radiation could not do better than look at the life, health and deaths of the thousands of V-Force aircrew who must have gone through the system. However, this was discarded as we were all apparently male and there was no info on females.

Those were the days!

[Pontius Navigator]

In 1964 not all Vulcans had probes. There was one intersting incident (if you were in the back ot the letter box) where a student Captain had flown his first 4 trips (or may be just 3) in a probed Vulcan. He was then sent off on exercise 5, the crew solo, in an aircraft without a probe.

As the staff were, at that time, used to flying either type no one gave a thought until the stude found great difficulty lining up for the approach.

I guess he might have been a non-copilot Captain candidate.

[gaunty]

Aaaaaaahh thanks BEagle

Going back and having a closer look I can see why.

BTW it must also have been one of the first of those Psywar machines,

If one of these;
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/mongsoft/images/Imagemap1.jpg
came batting :rolleyes: down the byway at you I'm sure most of us would have a very dry throat.

[Aeronut]

Went out and bought the book, a good read indeed.

I wondered if Dark Blue types could advise if an account of HMS Conqueror's war is out there? I have read 100 Days but now have a thirst for knowing how the sub stalked it's prey. It is mentioned that it followed the Belgrano very closely. That must have been tense.:uhoh:

[Jopsy]

I thouroughly enjoyed it, an Air Force that just doesnt exsist anymore, cant believe that corners could be cut like that these days.

I didnt realise just how touch and go it was regarding the Tanker brackets for Black Buck, found that a real eye opener.

Just a pity XM607 is being left to rot, sad end for a piece of History .. :{

[seand]

[QUOTE=Thanks to prompt work by FR reps, working all hours and with a can do attitude which at other times can be hard to find in British industry, .[/QUOTE]

Intresting statement, I've worked in "British industry" 25 years and the one thing I can say is that us engineers have always had a can do attitude, working 70 hrs plus weeks when required, not going home until the job is done, and why do engineers do this, well because we know you guys are on the line and need the support.

Those on this forum who keep knocking British industry should spend their time knocking the money men. The Engineers within British industry are the best you will find anywhere in the world, in fact most of us at some point have had to work in other parts of the world, and why! because there is no real investment in the UK and everyone want's it done on the cheap.:*

[BUMPFF]

Every operation/exercise I was ever involved with had bodge, fix-it-yourself and make-and-mend to contend with. The Hastings and Beverley were operated with WW2 technology until 1967 and the C-130 didn't have an autopilot for two years after entry into service. Said type was pressed into operational service in 1967 when we were kicked out of Aden at short notice, crews having only a few hours on type, with aircraft in bare aluminium as delivered from Marietta (afterwards they invented the OCU of course). The troops and airmen involved in the Gulf wars, Iraq and Afghanistan have to make do to an amazing degree (read Col. Tim Collins' book)*.

*At the Board of Enquiry:

Board: "Is it true that you were in posession of an AK47 rifle?"

Collins: "No, that is not true. I was in posession of three AK47s because the issue SA80 rifle is f@cking useless."

The situation will never change for the armed forces.

[Sunk at Narvik]

Superb effort by all concerned, but completly surpassed by a squadron of SHAR's operating from a nearby carrier.:ok:

[Wrathmonk]

... completly surpassed by a squadron of SHAR's ...

... who themselves ably supported a sqn of GR3's, who I believe at the time of embarking had never set foot aboard a "sardine can" let alone operated from one:E

[Sunk at Narvik]

All of which aptly demonstrates the usefulness of both STOVL and aircraft carriers ;)

[BEagle]

The only reason that the SHARs and GR3s were able to concentrate on the Argentine attack aircraft was because the BLACK BUCK raids had caused the junta to move their primary air defence aircraft north.

[Sunk at Narvik]

Funny, I thought the first BB raid was a complete surprise? :confused:

[BEagle]

Yeees - although Big Mouth Ward tried to call the Vulcan on RT on its way in to the target :mad: ......

It was immediately after the first raid that the principle AD aircraft (Mirage) were redeployed well away from the Malvinas to protect potential mainland targets in Argentine, making things much safer for the SHARs and GR3s.

[Sunk at Narvik]

An interesting diversionary activity for the RAF then. :hmm:

Perhaps if the Ark hadn't been scrapped we'd have been able to let her take care of the Argie mainland airfields whilst the STOVL carriers provided the CAP for the invasion?

[Regie Mental]

If we'd kept the Ark the Argies wouldn't have invaded in the first place!

[Pontius Navigator]

and don't confuse tactical with strategic.

The holes in the runway were one thing, the radius of action sent a quite different message.

[Flatus Veteranus]

"The Hole", I think, Pontius. IMHO the decision to abandon the lay-down attack (2F?) from low level, which could have resulted in 21 holes down the length of the runway, and go for the pop-up to medium level (2J?) was controversial. Much was made in the book of the limited effect of the lay-down weapon (spalling) on hard pavements compared with the cratering caused by ballistic delivery from a reasonable height. How hard, however, was the runway? The RE had the construction drawings of the runway direct from the contractors and, if I remember clearly, the combined thickness of the asphalt surface and the crushed stone foundation was not much more than 2 ft. It was only designed to provide for low-intensity use by light transport aircraft. The LCN was pathetic. The Sappers' main worry was how to beef it up, after recapture, to support operations by C130 at very high weights, and by F4s and, perhaps, Buccaneers, until a permanent runway could be provided at MPA. I think a stick 1,000 lb bombs laid down along the runway would have knackered it for a long time. Crushed rock for repairs was extremely difficult to obtain as the local rock is some of the hardest in the world; it buggered up the first rock-crusher that the Sappers took with them. And that is probably why the Argie attempt at a crater repair was abandoned. I knew a Gp Capt Nav at Strike, who was using the NBS when the Nav Rads on Black Buck were still in short pants, who was incandescent at the decision to "pop-up". If the copilot had NVGs (not in my time!) an accurate lay-down pass down the centreline should have been relatively easy.

Nevertheless the book was gripping.

[Pontius Navigator]

Considering the technics practised in the late 60s early 70s we had 5 options.

Going up these were:

2F laydown from 300 feet. Tight spacing using the 117 retard tails but certainly not down the centreline. This could have given 21 hits but was more likely to give 21 misses.

2J a low pop to 2500 feet for a ballistic attack and designed to remain below the lower limit of the earlier SA2. Later SA2 mods reduced the lower limit to 1200 feet so the 2J was a dead duck.

2G a low pop to 8000 feet for a ballistic attack in a non-SAM environment. This was 'sold' as being above the controlled light AAA. Was it a coincidence that the lower limit of the Calc 3 was 7200 feet.

2 pop down. This did not have a designated letter but was quite exciting. This was in a medium SAM threat with a high approach for fuel economy and speed. At about 45 miles the ac would go into a max rate descent to about 18-20000 feet levelling at about 15 miles and one minute or so to release. This would have been a good option in FI as it would improve accuracy but still achieve a good impact velocity.

2C was a low pop to 27000 feet for a ballistic attack with a Red Beard,

2A was a SAM evasive bomb run in a high SAM threat area. Given the post Powers SAM threat it was strange that we still considered the 2A against Indonesian SA2 in 1964 and practised the 2A until 1968.

Finally 2, by 1960 this must surely have been a pure academic exercise.

The best bet therefore was the pop-down to 18000-20000 feet using the forge cased 1000 lb and the Mk 75 or 906 (?) tail fuse. For good measure they should have included 3 x Mk 79 delay pistols. The optimum angle of cut would be 30 deg.

[PPRuNeUser0139]

Just finished reading Rowland White's "Vulcan 607" - the account of the Black Buck long range bombing mission. What a story - I hadn't realised that it was such a close run thing.
Without wishing to take anything at all away from Martin Withers and his crew, Bob Tuxford emerges as the real hero.
I had the privilege of flying with Bob on a flight trial a year or two later and I only wish that I'd known then of the part he played in this epic.
This was the real 'can do' Air Force.

[Tombstone]

Excellent, I'm looking for a new book to read and you've just chosen it for me!:ok:

[MrBernoulli]

Nah, Dick Russell is the unsung hero in this story! Quietly spoken and an absolute gent.

[allan907]

Brought to the top just to prove that the SEARCH BUTTON can be your friend!

[allan907]

Can I hear an echo.....echo.....echo......echo:{

[microlight AV8R]

This thread seem ooooh soooo familiar :hmm:

[FJJP]

PN, to add to your list - I seem to remember the ballistic release profile for the Blue Steel was a pop-up to 16,000. Memory hazy, though. But sounds about right.

[Pontius Navigator]

FJJP,

Can't comment on that but since it was a sharp pointy thing compared with the dust bin the rest of us were dropping it would certainly have hit the ground sooner if dropped from 11k.

It may have needed 16k to give the turbines time to run up and power the capacitors and also to increase your escape distance.

[Vulcan 903]

Great stories on this thread. I have the book, but yet to read it. Speaking to someone who is a regular vistor to the Falklands about the raids, he mentioned the Port Stanley Golf Club members are still 'miffed' to this day that the golf course suffered some turf damage from BB.
Some will never see the historical value of the BB missions! Well done to those on the V Force - I say.

[ExAvio]

I have just finished reading it and have NEVER been so engrossed in a book before!

Well Done!

[VP8]

[QUOTE=
Dropping 28lb practice bombs at Wainfleet to try & calibrate the kit from about 16,000 ft - "Running in hot at Height X!" - no-one listening would have worked out something different was happening...!! :rolleyes: The first bomb (not surprisingly!) got a score something like: "Er, 270/1955 yds - not quite on the range tower, but rather close!!"

So much was done at short notice, probably lots of it has been forgotten![/QUOTE]

I used to be @ Cowden AWR and remember opening the range on a Saturday for the guys to practice laydowns on TGT 8 bombing through the airway, reasonable score from what I remember

VEEPS

[wilmot]

Did anyone record the documentary about the Vulcan on Discovery Wings last Wed 16th missed it ...Twice in one night ... Was in work... Thanks in advance.. Wilmot:ok:

[Navaleye]

If we'd kept the Ark the Argies wouldn't have invaded in the first place!

But Ark's aircraft were kept. But silly me, I'm forgetting that for fault of their own they could not get there. How many lives does a false economy cost?

[mlc]

Just finished the book and thoroughly enjoyed it. If anyone has got Dave Morgans book and would like to swap, pm me.:ok:

[Navaleye]

mlc,

I've got Dave Morgan's book and I would encourage you to buy as its something you would read several times. I think I got both for about £15 from Amazon

[Samuel]

I have both 607 and Dave Morgan's book. I started 607 the day I got it, and only put it down when I'd finished! It reads like a Tom Clancy, except all the characters are real people and it's factual. :ok: The sheer professionalism displayed at every level of involvement, but in particular by the aircrews, is quite simply inspiring.In the end, I understodd perfectly why they bombed the way they did and across the runway rather than down it.

I pick up Dave Morgan's book today, and from what I've read hear, It'll be another late night, especially as the All Blacks are about to deal to the Wobblies yet again this afternoon.

Oh joy! A good book, and a good game!:D I'm off to check the fridge!

[OntarioCopper]

Just started to read Vulcan 607 and I must say, I am unable to put it down.

When is the movie coming out?

[Wycombe]

XH558 could star in it, and thereby the current funding gap would be resolved :ok:

[Eagle402]

Good call 1.4G but does that mean we would have F.E. Scotty nausing on with "the engine's cannae stand it Captain" every time the throttles were pushed forward ?

Just a thought...

Eagle402

[exscribbler]

Tom Cruise to star as 607's Captain? Aaaagh!

Enough, already.

[Rigger1]

Tom Cruise to star as 607's Captain? Aaaagh!


You can't AAR when IFR so he'd need a cussion, or three, to see over the dash!

[exscribbler]

And blocks on the pedals? :E

[brickhistory]

Good call 1.4G but does that mean we would have F.E. Scotty nausing on with "the engine's cannae stand it Captain" every time the throttles were pushed forward ?

Guess it'll depend on how Simon Pegg performs as 'Scotty' in the next movie.


I would have thought the producers would play to a potentially lucrative market and replace LCDR Montgomery Scott with LCDR 'JC' Choi (portrayed by Lucy Lu) - 60 million Brits vs 1+ billion Chinese.

[exscribbler]

This Lucy Lu?
http://www.lucylu.com/ (http://www.lucylu.com/) :ugh:

or this Lucy Liu?
http://lucy-liu.org/ (http://lucy-liu.org/) :ok:

If she could get the other girls involved we could have Charlie's Angels Hit the Falklands in a Tin Triangle. It would be almost as good as U-571... :bored:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0141926/alternateversions (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0141926/alternateversions)