airlines recruiting low houred guys (250-400 hrs) ish!

[the aviator1977]

Dear All,

I have recently been unsuccessful at stage 2 with Thomsonfly. I was really disappointed not to get it as they look like a great airline to work for. Job for life some might say including myself. The feedback said that I passed both the normal and psychologist interview but wasn't quite up to speed on the sim. I can only put that down to nerves and/or lack of practice/experience flying IF which is too expensive for me to practice. I did spend £289 recently (on the credit card as I'm not well off at all) for 1 hr practice before the sim assessment.

I have also been unsuccessful recently at the ba connect interview. I find it very heartbraking (especially when family are all behind you hoping for the best) to go through each interview and then not to be successful.

However, I'm determined to succeed and will never give up. But what I need now (as I suspect a lot of other fatpl holders need too) is a bit of guidance of who best to apply to now. Which airlines will look at low houred guys who haven't got a type rating and who haven't been to an integrated school or even an less well known (but jaa approved) modular training route such as myself.

I've tried flybe, eastern airways, cityjet, air southwest, loganair, bmi regional, bmi baby, isles of scilly skybus several times. I'm hitting my head against a brick wall. I've been qualifed for over 2 years. I can't afford an instructors rating and/or get a loan for CTC. I need to live with some money!

Please help me. Any info will be grealty appreciated.

Regards

The Aviator1977

[Rudedog]

I'm very sorry to hear that you didn't make it with Tfly. I am not long out of the same situation in which you now find yourself. Endless letters and CV's: never any replies, not even to say thanks but no thanks. That was the bit that I found really hard but the important message is that you keep going at it. If you want it badly enough then it will happen.
Look on the bright side, you are making it through first stages and maybe experience is letting you down from time to time in the sim. At least you are getting to sit in front of them which is a much better result than not even being acknowledged.
I appreciate that being turned down after the sim is horrible but put each one down to experience and try to learn from them. If nothing else you are getting an hour of free sim to hone your skills. May well make the difference next time.
In terms of airlines to try, I thought that your list looked pretty good. The low houred guys that I know that I have been taken on recently have been either at Tfly or Air Southwest or they have stumped up cash and now fly for Easy or Ryanscare. I'm sorry to say that I can't think of any others but you just need to keep pestering those that you have already tried. If you find yourself near their HQ's then why not pop in and pay them a visit: show your face and show you're keen.
I'm sure that it will happen just when you are least expecting it to.
All the best
RD

[machlimter99]

Am I missing something, but I thought that Thomsonfly, to quote from their site needed experienced FOs:

"First Officers wishing to apply must have 1500 hours total time to include either 500 hours jet experience or 1000 turbo hours. 737/757 Type Rated First Officers may apply with a minimum of 300 hours line experience".


Howcome people are getting to the interview stage/sim ride if they dont meet this requirment??:rolleyes:

[WX Man]

The word "integrated" springs to mind.

That and being recommended by the CFI of the FTO.

Aviator:

If you can't afford an FIC or CTC, and you are just dead keen to get flying, can I suggest a job at the "a*se end of aviation"? i.e. aerial photography.

The pay is cr*p, it looks cr*p on a CV (with some exceptions) but it does pay. And it can open some doors (maybe not the ones you are looking for, but it will open some doors).

A guy I know is faffing about in 172s making good contacts. When I leave my job (PA31-350) he will most likely be taking that. From there, the next step up may be air taxi, and from there to corporate jets. It's a completely different route from the well trodden one on the path towards Jack Walker House and Sutton Harbour but it may work for you.

Reading the "what's going on in Scotland" thread makes me realise that basically I'm not what the airlines are looking for (I have too much, or too little, experience- depending which way you look at it), so therefore I have had to revise my expectations of my career. Maybe at some point in the future I will have what an airline might be looking for, but for the moment I have set my sights on the LHS of a Gulfstream V.

What I'm really trying to say is this. If airlines are the only thing you want to do: keep firing the CVs off. If flying is what pushes your buttons (pun intended) then get any job you can that involves flying an aeroplane.

[Lucifer]

I feel very sorry for you guys, as it is hard to get a look in or exceed the standards of integrated students where there are people who are trained to the specifications of the airlines (integrated) who have had an intensive course and are drilled in the correct responses and techniques, but I think that new entrants need to realise that it is an investment, and that they should ensure that the training is appropriate to what is required by the airlines, not what is lowest cost at the time.

I can only suggest that you ensure that you keep up the quality flying in IR conditions or such, and keep plugging away, as even the BAs of the world have recruited from the modular ranks. It is not an old school tie world, but a complete meritocracy. Don't get disheartened, but use the experience in the non-jet world to your advantage as much as possible.

[FlyingNikonian]

.....can I suggest a job at the "a*se end of aviation"? i.e. aerial photography.


Waddya mean a*rse end of aviation!?!?!?:E
I find it to be OK! Seriously! Nowadays though, I mainly do the shooting myself and let youngsters fly. Anyone know/know of anybody who's in need of a photog/pilot?!


Feel free to PM me, should you have any suggestions!

[dwshimoda]

or exceed the standards of integrated students

Sorry Lucifer - the worst examples of flying around my airfield are nearly always from the boys and girls at a well known schoold doing an integrated course. You can argue the difference between integrated and modular until you're blue in the face, but don't believe the myth that integrated students are better.

DW.

[Megaton]

The trick is to keep applying. I sent off hundreds of cv's to the same companies over and over again before I got my first interview (I was low-time, modular, older). The airlines don't hang on to cv's for long so you have to be lucky. Your application needs to land on their desk when they're short of interviewees. It worked for me and I now fly jets for a major just over a year later.

The other point is that biz jet flying is very difficult to get in to. You will almost certainly need an unfrozen ATPL for insurance reasons and that means you already have 500 hrs MPA.

[Toastal]

"First Officers wishing to apply must have 1500 hours total time to include either 500 hours jet experience or 1000 turbo hours. 737/757 Type Rated First Officers may apply with a minimum of 300 hours line experience".


Howcome people are getting to the interview stage/sim ride if they dont meet this requirment??:rolleyes:[/quote]

Can somebody pleeease answer this question. I thought that TFLY were only recruiting FOs at the mo, not SOs! OR my dear friends, is there a "back door entry" into this company for those who don't meet the above requirements?:= I ask this because there have been numerous threads of late concerning low, low hour candidates getting a shot at the BIG CHEESE

Any thoughts?

T:sad:

[Lucifer]

Probably as they have no interest in everyone else's CVs and cherry pick from integrated schools with whom they have connections.

It's no secret that they have such connections and don't want 500 CVs to wade through.

[Toastal]

I hear ya Lucy, but does this mean that the likes of Aviator 1977 is an Integrated Bod? What I'm trying to ask is::::: Are there any low-hour modular boys and girls out there who have, or are currently in the recruitment process for TFLY at the mo?

Answers on a postcard please, EVERYONE'S A WINNER!!!!

[Megaton]

Friend completed modular and then FIC recently passed Stage 1 with TF and had STage 2 last week so yes it does happen.

[unfazed]

From what I understand The airlines and integrated schools have set up a very efficient relationship as regards tax relief on training cost's.

It probably helps to explain why they are hiring low hours graduates in favour of higher time modular students. If they didn't then they wouldn't be eligible for such perks and would loose credibility (i.e. why have you allowed young Bloggs to spend £59K after committing to your promise and you haven't hired him / her?)

Laws of supply and demand, lean times integrated course takeup is slower and so modular students are needed, good times course takeup is 100% and modular not required.

[-8AS]

Know how you feel! I remember what it was like getting started. Keep plugging away, it will happen. Any flying is good flying regardless of what others say. If you are logging hours and not paying for them good, if you are logging hours and getting paid great. (You are now a professional pilot).
Always try to keep advancing yourself. If the first job you get is aerial photography then good. Will build good handling skills, will get the logbook moving and will get your head thinking about aviaition. Most importantly you will be a commander of an aircraft having to fly within all the regulations of the state in which the work is conducted safely. Says a lot to future employers.

Try these: Good Luck!

Air Charter Scotland
Business Aviation Centre, Eastfield Avenue, Edinburgh Airport, EH12 9DN
Phone 0131 339 8008/Fax 0131 339 0241
Contact: Mr George MacFarline
Website: www.aircharterscotland.com
C310, C402, C404, Cessna Citation CJ1

Airlong Charter (Skydrift)
Norwich Airport, Norwich, Norfolk NR6 6EP
Phone 01603-407424/Fax 01603-418687
Contact A T Taberham
E110,PA23

Air Medical
The Old Farmhouse, Oxford Airport,Kidlington,Oxford OX5 1RA
Phone 01865-842887/Fax 01865-370642
Contact Rod Paris
PA34,PA31

Air Montgomery
Leeds Bradford Intl Airport, Leeds, W. Yorkshire
LS19 7UG
Phone 08700-777359/Fax 01923-712121
Contact Jeremy Oldroyd
C421

Air Nova
Hangar 3, Liverpool Airport North, Speke
Merseyside L24 1YD
Phone 0151-427-7907/Fax
Contact Peter Murtagh
BE76,PA28,PA38

Air Taxis Ltd (updated 30 May 2004)
Contact: Capt David Scott Morgan
Address: Elmdon Building, Birmingham Airport, Birmingham, B26 3QN
Tel: 0121 782 1011
Fax: 0121 782 4256
Email: [email protected]
Website: www.airtaxis.co.uk
Fleet: PA34 Seneca

Alkharafi Aviation
PO Box 302, 39 Don Street, St Helier, Jersey
Anglo American Airmotive
Building 602, Bournemouth Intl Airport, Christchurch,
Dorset BH23 6SE
Phone 01202-570023/Fax 01202-579165
Contact William Norris
PA31

Aravco
Business Aviation Centre, Farnborough Airport, Farnborough, Hampshire GU14 6XA
Phone 01252-554000/Fax 01252-377709
Contact Capt Robin Wilkins (Ch Plt)
HS25,BA11

Avia Special
2 Brookside, Ellenbrook Lane, Hatfield, Herts
AL10 9RR
Phone 01707-262774/Fax 01707-391571
Contact James Black
AN2,DH82

Aviation Beauport
Jersey Airport, St Peter, Jersey JE3 7BY
Phone 01534-42128/Fax 01534-44272
Contact Paul Holroyd
C310,C550

Awyr Cymru
Mid-Wales Welshpool Airport, Dower House, Treldan, Welshpool, Powys SY21 9HT
Phone 01938-552645/Fax 01938-552535
Contact Kevin Curran
PA31

BAE SYSTEMS (Corporate Air Travel Ltd)
W366a, Warton Aerodrome, Warton, Nr Preston, Lancs PR4 1AX
Phone 01772-852211/Fax 01772-852303
Contact: Capt Peter Hoare
Email: [email protected]
BAe146-100, BAe146-200, 2 x Hawker 125-800’s

Birnie Air Services
Isle of Wight (Sandown) Airport, Sandown,
Isle of Wight PO35 5XS
Phone 01983-408374/Fax
Contact James Birnie
C172

Capital Trading Aviation Ltd
Lisa Humphries, 58A High Street, Wellington, Somerset TA21 8RD
Phone 01823 661616 / Fax 01823 666204
Website: www.air-charters.co.uk
Fleet: 2xC310R, 2xPA31 Chieftain, 1xC404 Titan, 2xC421 Golden Eagle, 1xBeech King Air 200


Capital Trading Aviation Ltd
58A High Street, Wellington, Somerset, TA21 8RD
Phone 01823 661616
Fax 01823 666204
Email [email protected]
Contact Lisa Humphries
2xC421,1xC404,2xPA31-350,1xBeech King Air 200


Carill Aviation Limited
Southampton Intl Airport, Southampton, Hants
SO18 2NL
Phone 023-8064-3528/Fax 023-8064-3528
Contact Caroline Rabson
PA34,PA28


Cecil Aviation
Milton Technical Centre, Cambridge, Cambs CB4 6AZ
Phone 01223-420821/Fax 01223-420475
Contact Vic Long
C421


CEGA Aviation
Goodwood Airfield, Chichester, W. Sussex PO18 0PH
Phone 01243-783165/Fax 01243-773169
Contact Clive Ponsford
Email: [email protected]
BE20,BE9L,PA34


Centreline Air Charter Ltd
Bristol International Airport, North Somerset, BS48 3DP
Phone 01275-474357/Fax 01275-474851
Email: [email protected]
Website: www.centrelineair.co.uk
9 x PA34, 4 x PA31, 1 x BE-200
Other bases: Jersey, Southend, Coventry


Citation Centre
Philip Lammiman
Fax : 01202581579


CJ Jones (used to be ‘FR Aviation’)
Bournemouth Airport, Dorset BH23 6NE
Phone 01202-409000/Fax 01202-580936
Contact Mike Grey
DA20,DO228,BN2,C441


Classic Wings
Duxford Airfield, Duxford, Cambs CB2 4QR
Tel/Fax: 01223 830 707
Contact:
DH82,DH89


Clowes Estates Derby
Brailsford Hall, Brailsford, Derby DE7 8SU
Phone
Contact John Hogg
BE20


Le Cocqs Airlink
Noel Hayes, 15 Le Huret, Alderney, GY9 3TR
Phone: 01481 824 567
Fax: 01481 824 577
Email: [email protected]
Website: www.lecocqs.com
Fleet: TRIS, BN2P x 2


Directflight Ltd
Personnel Dept, Directflight Ltd, Head Office, Sapphire House, Norwich, Norfolk, NR7 8SQ
Phone +44(0)1603 400951/Fax +44(0)1603 400982
Email [email protected]
F406


Dravidian Air Services
Operations Building, RAF Northolt, West End Road, Ruislip, Middlesex HA4 6NG
Phone 020-8842-2800
Contact A A Brember


Eastern Air Executive
Sturgate Aerodrome, Upton , Lincs DN21 5PA
Phone 01427-838280/Fax 01427-838416
Contact John Duke
PA31,PA23,C421


Euro Executive Jet
London Biggin Hill Airport, Biggin Hill, Kent
TN16 3BN
Phone 023-8060-2161/Fax 023-8069-5879
Contact Gordon Franks


Eurojet Aviation
NCP Building, Old Terminal Area, Birmingham Airport B26 3QJ
Phone 0121-782-1700/Fax 0121-782-1711
Contact: Mike Rawcliffe
Website: www.eurojet.co.uk
Fleet: 1 x C500, 2 C550B, 1 x C560XL, 1 x EC120, 1 x Bell 407


European Corporate Air
Waters Edge, Charlotte Quay Dock, Dublin 4
Phone 00-353-1-6677930/Fax 00-353-1-6677925
Contact Brenda Carr
HS25


Executive Aviation Services
Gloucester Airport, Staverton, Cheltenham, Glos
GL51 6SP
Phone 01452-857006/Fax 01934-412728
Contact Peter Turner
C550


Executive Jet Charter
Business Aviation Centre, Farnborough Airport, Farnborough, Hants GU14 6XA
Phone 01252-244088/Fax 01252-244089
Contact Barry Johnson
HS25,F900


Fairflight Corporate Jets
PO Box 100, Esher, Surrey KT10 8WX
Phone 0800-0155-538
Contact Paul Mulligan
C550


Falcon Jet Centre
Business Aviation Centre, Farnborough Airport, Farnborough, Hants GU14 6XA
Phone 01252-544825/Fax 01252-244089
Contact C McGibbon
HS25,FA20


FlyNow Charter Solutions,
Contact: Mr J Meeson, Delta House, Southend Airport, Essex, SS2 6YU
Phone: 01702 545756
Fax: 01702 540 011
Email: [email protected]
Fleet: PA31, PA34, BE20


Ford Motor Company
Hangar 2, Stansted Airport, Essex CM24 1QU
Phone 01279-665626
Contact Robert Gardner
Fleet MD87,BA11,HS25


FR Aviation Ltd
Contact: C.J.C Jones, Head Of Flight Ops.
Address: Bournmouth International Airport, Christchurch, Dorset BH23 6NE
Phone: 01202 409000
Fax: 01202 580936


Gama Aviation (updated 15th Dec 2003)
Fairoaks Airport, Chobham, Surrey GU24 8HX
Phone 01276-856961/Fax 01276-858485
Contact Graham Warrington
BE20,LEAR,C550


Hebridean Air Services
Cumbernauld Airport, Glasgow G68 0HH
Phone 01236-457777
Contact Capt Gerry Fritz
BN2P


IDS Aircraft
Citation Centre, Hangar 266, Bournemouth Airport
Dorset BH23 6NW
Phone 01202-590100 / Fax 01202-581579
Contact Brian Bedford
C550


Interflight(Air Charter)
Hangar 503, Churchill Way,
Biggin Hill Airport, Westerham, Kent TN16 3BN
Phone 01959-575800/Fax 01959-540105
Contact Simon Masey
HS25


Jettair
3 Church Road, Penny Lane, Liverpool OL5 9HE
Contact Phillip Ettinger


Keenair Airways
Jim Morrow, Keenair House, Viscount Drive,
Business Aviation Apron, Liverpool Airport, L4 5GA
Tel: 0151 448 0303
Website : www.keenair.co.uk
Fleet : E110


London Executive Aviation
London City Airport, Royal Docks, London E16 2PX
Phone 020-7474-3344/Fax 020-7474-5566
Contact Karl Radcliffe
PA34,PA31.BE20,C550


Manhattan Air
Blackbushe Airport, Camberley, Surrey GU17 9YY
Phone 01252-890500/Fax 01252-875900
Contact Trevor Jones
BE20


Markoss Aviation
Jet Centre Hangar 527, Biggin Hill Airport, Biggin Hill, Kent TN16 3BN
Phone 01959-570559/Fax 01959-575026


MAS Airways
First Floor, 67 Victoria Road, Horley, RH6 7QH
Contact: Rudy Le Fournis
Tel: 01293 825197
Email: [email protected]
PA31 C550

Mayfair Dove Aviation
Woodburn, Deanoak Lane, Leigh, Surrey RH2 8PZ
Phone 01293-862477/Fax 01293-862477
Contact W Pritchard
DOVE

Millenium Charter/Osprey Aviation
Executive Jet Centre, Southampton Airport, Southampton, Hampshire SO18 2HG
Phone 02380 483 700
Contact Steve Loveridge
HS25

Missionary Aviation Fellowship
Castle Hill Avenue, Folkestone, Kent CT20 2TN
Phone 01303-850950/Fax 01303-852800
Contact Rachel Thompson
E-mail [email protected]

NetJets Europe
Avenida das Descobertas, Galerias Alto de Barra,
Piso Intermedio, 2780 Oeiras, Portugal
Phone 00-351-21-446-8417
Fax 00-351-21-446-8455
Carey Matthews (Dctr Euro Ops)
Pete Quigley (Ch Plt)

Northern Executive Aviation (updated 28th Oct 2003)
Business Aviation Centre, Hangar 7,
Manchester Airport West, Manchester M90 5NE
Phone 0161-436-6666/Fax 0161-436-3450
Contact: Capt. Hayo Harmens
2 x Learjet 35A

Oxford Aero Charter (updated 22nd Sept 2003)
Mr Keith Rudd (Chief Pilot), The Farmhouse, Oxford Airport, Kidlington, Oxfordshire OX5 1RA
Phone 01865-374262/Fax 01865-374263
Contact Alex Durand
C500,C560

Premiair Charter
Bournemouth Intl Airport, Bournemouth, Dorset
BH23 6DE
Phone 01202-590866/Fax 01202-593200
Contact Adrian Barralet
P68

Rangemile
Terminal Buidings, Coventry Airport, Coventry
CV8 3AZ
Phone 024-7630-4452/Fax 024-7633-9031
HS125,PA31

Ravenair
Cheshire Flying Services, Business Aviation Centre, South Terminal, Liverpool
Airport, Liverpool L24 1YD
Phone 0151-486-6161/Fax 0151-486-5151
Contact Jeff Nuttall
PA23,PA34,P68

Redhill Charters
Redhill Aerodrome South Block, Redhill, Surrey
RH1 5JY
Phone 01737-822959/Fax 01737-822163
Contact Z Islam
PA34

Senair Charter
Southend Airport, Essex SS2 6YF
Phone 01702-546156/Fax 01702-530757
Contact Ron Pettit
PA34,PA31

Signature Aircraft Charter/Lynton Aviation
Luton Airport, Luton, Beds LU2 9NT
Phone 01582-437800/Fax 01582-877350
Contact Mike Hyde/Colin Batty
HS25,F900,C50

Spectrum Air Services
Clacton Airfield, Clacton-on-Sea, Essex CO15 1AG
Phone 01255-424671/Fax 01255-475364
Contact
PA23,PA31

Sterling Air Charter
Hangar E, Gambling Close, Norwich, Norfolk NR6 6EG
Phone 01603-417156/Fax 01410791
Contact C J Mace
BE20,BN2P,C172

T G Aviation
Kent International Airport, , Manston, Kent CT12 5BP
Phone 01843-823656/Fax 01843-822024
C421,PA34,SC7,PA28

Twinjet Aircraft
Essex House, Proctor Way, London Luton Airport, Luton, Beds LU2 9PE
Phone 01582-452888/Fax 01582-400098
Contact John Keeble
A319

Victoria Aviation (formerly Air Care)
Unit 10, Plymouth City Airport, Crownhill, Plymouth , Devon PL6 8BW
Phone 01752-777177/Fax 01752-777277
Contact P Pike
PA31,BE20

Westair Flying Services
Blackpool Airport, Blackpool, Lancs FY4 2QX
Phone 01253-342660/Fax 01253-401121
Contact John Westoby
C401

Woodgate Aviation IOM Ltd
John Keen (Training Captain), Ronaldsway Airport, Ballasalla, Isle of Man, IM9 2AS
Phone 01624 823707/Fax 01624 822346
Website: www.woodair.com
2 x PA31, 1 x PA27, 1 x BAE J31, 1 x 8KCAB.


Woodgate Executive Air Charter
Capt Malcolm Shaw, Belfast Intl Airport, Crumlin, Co Antrim, N.Ireland BT29 4AB
Phone ++442894422478/Fax ++442894452649
Email: [email protected]
Website: www.woodair.com
Fleet: 2 x Piper Aztec, 1 x Piper Chieftain, 1 x Jetstream 31

Wycombe Air Centre
Wycombe Air Park, , Booker, Marlow, Buckinghamshire SL7 3DR
Phone 01494-443737 / Fax 01494-465456
Contact Richard Bird
BE76,C152/172/182,PA28

[-8AS]

And here are some regionals. You will have to look up the details:

Ireland.
Aer Arann
CityJet
Eirjet

Scotland.
Highland Airways

UK.
Air Southwest
Air Wales
AlphaOne Airways
Aurigny Air Services
BA Connect (jet)
BA Connect (turboprop)
BAC Express Airlines Ltd
Birmingham European Airways
Eastern Airways
Flybe British European (Turboprop)
Keen Airways
Loganair
Primeflight
Scot Airways
Titan Airways Ltd
Wightflight
bmi Regional
euromanx

[Deano777]

I thought Air Wales are no more? and AlphaOne are definately no more, just an update :ok:

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

The list comes from the small operators section of www.ppjn.com and is getting a little long in the tooth. Problem with most of these outfits is that they require hours or type ratings in some cases. I've had some luck myself by using this list and got a job from it.

[Phil Brockwell]

If you keep pressing refresh on any PPRUNE page and watching the top right hand corner, you will see that one of the air taxi operators mentioned are looking for crew right now!

:ok:

Phil

[LDG_GEAR _MONITOR]

Phil,
I tried that but didnt see anything ! If its the company i think it is ;) then i tried with you last week - met most the hours just a bit low on the P1 multi ifr hours - shame as i even have coverage on the engineering on your types - if they break down route ;) (well worth a try ;)!! )

[Northern Highflyer]

What I'm trying to ask is::::: Are there any low-hour modular boys and girls out there who have, or are currently in the recruitment process for TFLY at the mo?


Yes there is. :ok:

[chipieflyer]

WX Man and FlyingNikonian:

Aerial survey, air taxi flying and the route you describe is precisely the type of flying that appeals to me but I'm struggling to find contacts for aerial survey companies at the moment. I've spoken to a couple, but just too late at one and nothing more postitive from the others. Is there much demand for this type of work or is it a case of right time, right place?

Cheers.

[FlyingNikonian]

Aerial photography, which is what I happen to have some experience with, have mainly been on a "side-show" basis. People call me up and ask if can take pic's of their houses/businesses.
Have even done the odd air-to-air job. Which have been really cool. Haven't been flying myself on those occasions though! ;)

Air-taxi is, I suppose, just a matter of being at the right place at the right time. Hasn't happened to me yet. Although I have done a decent amount of freight flying for my current employer.

[redsnail]

Tactics, strategy, research and effort.

I gather you folks know that the CAA imposes a limit on the number of low houred guys an airline can have at any one time? This is to keep the experience level right. Also does keep the insurance premiums managable.
You might be thinking, so what?

Tactics and strategy. Airline "X" has employed low houred guys in the past eg 2 years ago but is now only hiring experienced guys. My punt is that this airline will soon hire low houred folks. Reason, inexp/exp ratio is ok for the UK CAA.

Airline "Y" has been hiring a lot of low houred guys. Do you think that this will continue or will it stop soon? My bet it will stop soon and while it's fine to throw in a CV, just don't expect a miracle.

Which airline is expanding? Read Flight International and look for ads for engineers and sim instructors. They're the ones expanding.

Air Charter, taxi and aerial work? These sort of operations tend to happen in the smaller airports. Biggin Hill, Bristol (both of them) Gloucester, Luton, Cambridge, Lon City, Coventry and so on. You'll have to get in your car and visit these places. Be ultra polite and get yourself known. If you're handy to the airport and are flexible you can pick up RHS work etc. It's up to you to chase down these jobs. They certainly will not advertise.

If you want to work in GA or get a start in GA you'll need to do some work on the airfield washing aircraft or whatever. Work in ops, hangars etc. to get yourself known. Get an instructor's certificate and work on the field that does have an active GA scene.

What is vital is to keep your IR scan up to speed. Use a flight sim (desk top computer such as Elite). Be nice. Be seen. Be bloody keen.

[Pilot Pete]

Am I missing something, but I thought that Thomsonfly, to quote from their site needed experienced FOs:
"First Officers wishing to apply must have 1500 hours total time to include either 500 hours jet experience or 1000 turbo hours. 737/757 Type Rated First Officers may apply with a minimum of 300 hours line experience".
Howcome people are getting to the interview stage/sim ride if they dont meet this requirment??:rolleyes:


Right. For all those who are proclaiming it has something to do with integrated etc - WRONG. Pure speculation from people who have no idea and who are guessing.

The first rule to remember in trying to get your first job is to RESEARCH your target airlines. Rule two is to NEVER BELIEVE WEBSITES, even the airline's own. Even more so when it comes to minimum number of hours required to apply. Your researchg should reveal whether said airline has a track record of hiring pilots with less hours than that stated. Thomsonfly is one such of those airlines. Their website asks for their 'wish list' and does not mean that they will not employ you (or even offer you selection) if you don't have those hours. During these 'frantic' hiring times they simply do not have the manpower or time to update the website instantaneously, hence it is often well out of date. Until earlier this year I seem to recall it was about 2 years since the recruitment page had been updated at all, during which time they had recruited 200hr, 2000hr and even direct entry captains!

Also bear in mind that the recruitment situation can and does change on a monthly, or weekly or sometimes even on a DAILY basis. So Toastal your comment I thought that TFLY were only recruiting FOs at the mo, not SOs! OR my dear friends, is there a "back door entry" into this company for those who don't meet the above requirements? proves that you are not keeping your research up to date (if you are trying to join Tfly that is). They WERE only recruiting F/Os a matter of weeks ago, but they ARE recruiting S/Os this week. FACT. I know a few people who do not meet the website stated entry requirements who have selection later this week.

I can't quite believe that some people don't apply to certain airlines because they 'heard' they weren't meeting minimum requirements etc. PHONE THEM UP AND ASK! I know someone who followed my advice to phone earlier this week because he had heard nothing and has been offered stage one on Friday.

How much do you want a job? Lecture over.

PP

[machlimter99]

Thanks PP that has cleared that up. Just sometimes comes over on these websites that they ONLY take people with certain hours or experience. Point taken thanks!

[wobblyprop]

Why are Tfly recruiting low hours guys? i suspect because we can't fill the seats with FOs and SOs are cheaper :hmm:, but then I am a complete cynic

[papazulu]

The first rule to remember in trying to get your first job is to RESEARCH your target airlines. Rule two is to NEVER BELIEVE WEBSITES, even the airline's own. Even more so when it comes to minimum number of hours required to apply. Your researchg should reveal whether said airline has a track record of hiring pilots with less hours than that stated.

I agree but I wonder how you can apply for those who don't accept mailed CV but just online forms.

I can't quite believe that some people don't apply to certain airlines because they 'heard' they weren't meeting minimum requirements etc. PHONE THEM UP AND ASK! I know someone who followed my advice to phone earlier this week because he had heard nothing and has been offered stage one on Friday.


I agree again but quiet often you need to reach the guy who really knows the matter. Receptionists most of the time are not well informed...

Finally: how important would be to have a UK address for a foreign low-timer? Do UK operators consider overseas candidates in the manner as Brits when it comes to out-of-minima selections?

Kind regards

:ok: PZ

[Pizzaro]

Is it true that the CAA look at the inexperienced/experienced ratios of pilots within an airline?

[Lucifer]

Do UK operators consider overseas candidates in the manner as Brits when it comes to out-of-minima selections?
Of course - all EU candidates are equally considered. That is the law.

[Phil Brockwell]

Of course all EU nationalities are considered equally......except the Portugese.:E

[FlyingNikonian]

Of course all EU nationalities are considered equally......except the Portugese.:E
Not all of them are actors you know!;)

Of course - all EU candidates are equally considered. That is the law.
Speed-limit signs are also the the law, but nobody seems to mind them.....:}

Seriously though, I've applied to a few UK companys and a couple of them have spelled it right out to me; -"You're not living in the UK at present time, so unfortunately we can't take you on." The thing is, they know it takes some time to get settled in, in a new environment, before you can focus 100% on whatever tasks they hand you. So for them it's really just a way of making sure that the guy/girl they hire can start producing to full capacity right away. I don't think they do it just p*ss non-UK folks off.

EDIT: Just had a new PFO-mail. This time from Globespan. But I must say it was one of the nicer ones I had! They actually encouraged me to stay in touch. :ok:
Anyway,...just goes to show,....a 737-rating whithout time on type is pretty useless.

[the goon]

the aviator1977 - I know of someone who got into Netjets recently onto the Falcon 2000 with about 800hrs F/ATPL. More info? PM me:ok:

[captwannabe]

FlyingNikonian,

If you have a Scottish address, but are applying to an English-based airline, would you be told the same thing? Would it be much of an advantage if applying for Scottish airlines?

:ok:

[CPL_Ace]

Although I was not lucky enough to be lectured in person by Pilot Pete, I took it upon myself to ring TFly after I had sent the application on their web site (The one that gave the minimum requirements which I did not have - I did it anyway, why not it's not illegal!)

The nice lady pulled out my application from the pile and informed me that they are recruiting F/os and are filling the gaps with low hours pilots like ME!

2 of my friends did the same. One starts on the 757 out of Cardiff after Type and Line and the other is waiting for a call back after stage one. Me? I'm waiting confidently for the call for stage 1.

First Choice are doing the same as of Friday. They actually do specify the hours but say they'll take exceptional Low hours pilots - Like ME!

Many have turned me down out right on the phone including MyTravel (who sent me a 2 page letter explaining why and a request to see me after I have logged the 500 hours) and GB Airways. Monarch are the same but again they weren't nasty when I asked.

[Kak Klaxon]

Guys I am moving house at the moment,in the loft I found an old pilots bag and in it were all my old rejection letters from the early 1990s,one from just about every operator round then (who the hell were Airworld?).

Anyway I am now a training capt with 10000 hours and all those CVs are just a distant nightmare along with the ATPLs etc.

Dont give up hope,if a fool like me can get on then you will too.

[sicky]

Ace - what exactly differentiates an exceptional low hours pilot from a non-exceptional low hours pilot? Not trying to pick faults or anything, it's a genuine question.

[Tuned In]

Wx Man

Not important at all. I have a friend who was interviewed by Thompson from my modular school, without any recommendation. He passed everything but unfortunately they had made a mistake in interviewing him, and really wanted more hours. He was advised in the end to come back with 500. Always pays to apply anyway, even without the requirements - got me my current job.

[Wicked shimmy]

Anyone else applied to Thomson and received an email from HR saying they are not recruiting SO at the moment & they’ll keep your details on file for six months? I got mine today :(

[Pilot Pete]

Anyway I am now a training capt with 10000 hours and all those CVs are just a distant nightmare along with the ATPLs etc.

So true. A mate of mine used his reject letters as wallpaper in his downstairs loo, just to remind him how hard getting his first job was and to let all his 'acquaintances' (non aviation) know that he was not 'lucky' to be a pilot....

PP

[pushapproved]

Wicked Shimmy...Me too! :(

[EGBKFLYER]

And me... At least they had the courtesy to reply:ok: and quickly too - only sent hte form last Sat.

[the aviator1977]

I just wanted to say thank you for all your replies and kind words of encouragement and advice. I will never give up trying and feel lots more positive now since my failure at stage 2 with thomsonfly

[elevengflyer]

First Choice are doing the same as of Friday. They actually do specify the hours but say they'll take exceptional Low hours pilots - Like ME!


I could not get past the online application as throws you out if you don't meet minimum requirements - if you know a way round it let me know!

[scameron77]

Anyone got a Microsoft Excel speadsheet of all the aviation employers in the UK so I can mail merge it with a word processed covering letter?

Granted by furnishing this to yet another wannabe it increases the competition, but I thought I'd ask at least.

Thanks in advance.

[Dr Eckener]

Nothing works better than a spam covering letter to show your interest and level of research! Best of luck.

[scameron77]

So is that a no to the database then mate?

1st - You don't know what my intentions are with the spreadsheet, never assume anything in life, that way you won't be dissapointed.
2nd - If you don't have anything nice to say, don't bother your arse
3rd - Some employers may equally think it shows a degree of initiative and resolve for a long slog
4th - Its Christmas (shortly) so lighten up for Christs sake and save the pratronising for your own students

[PPRuNeUser0215]

Nothing works better than a spam covering letter to show your interest and level of research! Best of luck.

I have tried spamming years ago (by fax) and it worked. All I can say is there is more than one way to get yourself noticed, the main thing being lucky in your timing.

As for the database of employer, I have used at the time a book called "JP Airline Fleets International". Not just for the UK but each country is a section so it is easy to find your way around. Nowadays there is a CD ROM version but last time I saw it (a while ago now), there was no possibility to mail merge.
In my view, this book is essential to the job hunter, specially if he is ready to expat himself.

[AIRWAY]

Hello,

I don't have a spreadsheet, but i do have a booklet that Flight International produces yearly i believe, with all UK airline contacts and so on, if it is useful please PM me.

All the best. :ok:

[geoffwhiteatpl]

At the age of 39, I decided that the only way to get an airline job was to get my head and shoulders above the competition. I did this by paying for a type rating with Parc aviation following the MCC with Parc. This then led to my job with Thomsonfly that I start next month. Having a good solid career with HSBC also helped. Not sure what else to suggest.

[Q2/3/400]

Well done, GeoffWhiteATPL.

It seems I have a very similar background to you, including no longer being a teenager. May I ask how many hours you have? Specifically, do you have the 250hrs on type they state on the website?

Q.