Home to Duty - ANOTHER JPA Farce! [Archive]

Vage Rot

28th Jun 2006, 11:15

Many of us at ISK have been charged personal contribution for HTD without any HTD being paid!!! (backdated too!!). So I guess now that they think we like our work so much that we should pay for the privilege!!

Still no LSA from the last Gulf Det

No return of phone calls from JPAC!!

What is going on with this system? I wonder the press hasn't ot hold of the farce yet!!

Check your pay statements carefully guys, mine reads like a badly written draft novel with all the recoveries and credits to correct the last 2 month's worth of cock ups!!

The Helpful Stacker

28th Jun 2006, 11:39

Many of us at ISK have been charged personal contribution for HTD without any HTD being paid!!! (backdated too!!). So I guess now that they think we like our work so much that we should pay for the privilege!!
Still no LSA from the last Gulf Det
No return of phone calls from JPAC!!
What is going on with this system? I wonder the press hasn't ot hold of the farce yet!!
Check your pay statements carefully guys, mine reads like a badly written draft novel with all the recoveries and credits to correct the last 2 month's worth of cock ups!!

I'm still paying garage charge on a garage I handed back to DHE is September.

DHE tell me its an RAF problem and the RAF (JPA) say its a DHE problem.:ugh:

PerArdua

28th Jun 2006, 13:08

Does anyone else have a Net Public Debt on their pay statement? It seems to be the HTD Contribution but as that is included in the deductions column it shouldn't be a 'Public Debt'

PA

airborne_artist

28th Jun 2006, 13:20

I'm still paying garage charge on a garage I handed back to DHE is September.

DHE tell me its an RAF problem and the RAF (JPA) say its a DHE problem.

If it's being deducted from your pay it's an RAF problem - they are the organisation who should be in charge of your pay account, and they are allowing DHE to debit from it.

Climebear

28th Jun 2006, 15:19

If it's being deducted from your pay it's an RAF problem - they are the organisation who should be in charge of your pay account, and they are allowing DHE to debit from it.

Unfortunately, the RAF stopped being in charge of our pay accounts in 1997. Our pay accounts (and pensions and medals and casualty proceedures and JPA...) are now run by the Tri-Service AFPAA.

AFPAA website. (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/AboutDefence/Organisation/AgenciesOrganisations/AFPAA/)

Our Vision : To deliver excellent Armed Forces personnel administration through outstanding customer service

Our Mission : To support UK Defence capability through the accurate payment of military personnel and provision of quality personnel administration and information services on a harmonised basis

airborne_artist

28th Jun 2006, 16:02

PompeySailor

28th Jun 2006, 16:19

The pay regs for all three services (or rather, the single pay regs as they are becoming once we all line up under JPA) state that you are responsible for the accuracy of your pay, and that any problems should be reported via Unit Administration Staff, if you have any left. Failing that, JPA Help Line once more. It's quite incredible that you can be debited the personal contribution for HTDs without HTDs being in issue. Simple coding laziness, failing to write a rule which checks this.....

CBA_caption

28th Jun 2006, 17:00

Slight thread drift, but everyone must be receiving their paper statements today. Not too your home address though, 1st class post to the central registry who take 3 days to pass it on... sorry that wasn't my main point.

Has anyone out there got any idea what "GPD taxable" means. I know my HR pros don't have the foggiest. I've a feeling I'm getting stiffed to pay the tax on expenses they're claiming back, but noone seems to have the first idea.

Complete shambles. Reminds me of the phrase "I i did my job this badly, I'd be dead by now."

CBA

Climebear

28th Jun 2006, 17:37

Climebear. True, but you are employed by the RAF, not the AFPAA. The RAF has a responsibility to pay you, which they discharge through the agency, but that does not absolve the RAF from ensuring that your pay is made correctly and on time.

Mute point - who is our employer? The RAF (whose uniform we wear) or the Ministry of Defence - It is the MOD (not the RAF) that is subject of any legal action relating to our employment and it is the MOD who pays us (or not as the case may be).

WhoAreYa

28th Jun 2006, 17:42

Slight thread drift, but everyone must be receiving their paper statements today.

CBA

I wish mate, havnt recieved a single pay statement since the introduction of JPA despite many phone calls and our unit admin staff chasing them.
Useless gits the lot of them.

CBA_caption

28th Jun 2006, 18:20

Fair point WhoAreYa. I don't think you're alone either. Is anyone about to PVR willing to take one for the team and go super official? What's the name of that lawyer who always wins against the MOD? :E

CBA

Pontius Navigator

28th Jun 2006, 18:37

How about Gross Pay to Date Taxable. This should be your total pay to date less 3 months worth of uniform allowance is about £90.25 or so based on last years rate.

Too logical?

airborne_artist

28th Jun 2006, 18:56

I wish mate, havnt recieved a single pay statement since the introduction of JPA despite many phone calls and our unit admin staff chasing them.

In a civilian environment that would be a breech of employment legislation. It is a legal requirement to provide a pay slip showing gross pay and all deductions.

pipl

28th Jun 2006, 19:02

Gilbert Blades is your man. Tempting thought!
http://www.wilkinchapman.com/html/personnel.asp?ID=3
"He regularly appears as Advocate for service personnel before Courts Martial trials throughout the UK and overseas, including Cyprus, Germany and other parts of the world where servicemen are stationed. He also appears as Advocate before the Crown Courts, Courts of Appeal, House of Lords and the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg."
Regards.

CBA_caption

28th Jun 2006, 20:20

Good guess PN, but it appears in the allowances column and is minus 170ish. Of course it's still probably more than some poor sod has been paid so far.

Pipl,

Thats the chap. Have you been making enquires?:oh:

Spotting Bad Guys

28th Jun 2006, 20:28

Has anyone out there got any idea what "GPD taxable" means. I know my HR pros don't have the foggiest. I've a feeling I'm getting stiffed to pay the tax on expenses they're claiming back, but noone seems to have the first idea.

Complete shambles. Reminds me of the phrase "I i did my job this badly, I'd be dead by now."

CBA

I've been trying to find out for weeks. They first paid me GPD Taxable (over £500) in May, took it back in June and it STILL shows as a balance. No-one has been able to tell me what this is, why it was paid, why it was taken back or why it still shows as a balance. Oh and they owe me over £300 for other things screwed up since my posting in March.

I've phoned JPAC multiple times (no response - naturally), raised two SRs and submitted a complaint in writing to OC Admin. If it doesn't get fixed now, the next step is a formal complaint to AFPAA....

The sheer lack of accountability is the most galling thing - there's no one to yell at and from this end it seems nobody at the top much cares either.

SBG

No idea

28th Jun 2006, 21:11

cazatou

28th Jun 2006, 21:40

WhoAreYU

Why not not write to the Inland Revenue and explain that you will be unable to fill in any tax returns until further notice as HMG are are unable (or unwilling) to send you pay statements.

vecvechookattack

28th Jun 2006, 21:46

I have to agree with No idea here. JPA is working perfectly well....why, because they discussed it in the House of Commons and they reported that they had received no complaints.

Guys, its no good manking and moaning on t'internet web site.... do someting about it. Write Letters, bombard your CO with Hourly e-mails, write to your MP, write to Tony Blair, write to the Queen... until the RAF start complaining about JPA nothing will happen and the RN and then the Army will suffer the same fate

Ginseng

28th Jun 2006, 21:55

Try "Gross Public Debt Taxable".

Regards

Ginseng

Spotting Bad Guys

29th Jun 2006, 05:32

SPG - no one cares because no one has the courage to put in a Redress of Complaint against how they have been treated since the introduction of JPA. Getting the papers to write a minor article doesn't work. Ministers want to know how many Formal Complaints have been received (ie Redress of Complaint), the sad point is that despite the whinging and whining on this forum non one has.

If you want something done about it, put it in writing to your CO as a Redress of Complaint. Remember this is your statutory right under the various Discipline Acts. Provided it is 'in time' and stands on its own (ie makes sense) then your CO has a duty (that he can't ignore) to investigate the complaint. If he can't resolve it then he has to refer it via his Higher Authority.

JPA online (approx) 20 Mar 06
Redress of Complaint submitted to date - NIL

Get writing chaps and chapesses or your pay etc will continue to be messed up. Next ministerial review on this issue is in the next few weeks.

That's twice now you've posted encouraging me to submit a redress. What is it with you?

The reason I haven't? I believe in the military chain of command, and redress should be your last recourse if all else has failed.

Picture the scene: "so you submitted a redress becaise your pay was continually incorrect?" Answer: "Yes"
"And did you address these issues with the JPA and Stn authorities to allow them to deal with the issues at the appropriate level?"

"Er....no"

"Get out"

Or words to that effect.

SBG

L J R

29th Jun 2006, 06:48

Spot on spot!

Vage Rot

29th Jun 2006, 08:05

Picture the scene: "so you submitted a redress becaise your pay was continually incorrect?" Answer: "Yes"
"And did you address these issues with the JPA and Stn authorities to allow them to deal with the issues at the appropriate level?"
"Er....no"
"Get out"
Or words to that effect.
SBG

Agreed in principle but:
I spent the last 4 days trying to get through to the help line. 3 of those days's I was flying later and ended up really wound up before flight - especally as:

1. The lady told me I had to make a personal contribution so what was i moaning about (couldn't understand that for me to contribute a portion they had to give me the lion's share!).

2. No phone call back as they promised.

3. Next day, another 25 attempts to get through

4. Gave up last night to go flying - wound up again.

The biggest problem is that nobody with any clout appears interested in ocking the boat. Just glad I'm not leaving right now as they would probably bu99er up the pension/gratuity!!

Right - s said before - I'm off to make myself unpopular with the boss again!!

jpa-in

29th Jun 2006, 09:24

airborne_artist

29th Jun 2006, 09:53

Just think, lots of guys & girls maintaining & flying aircraft, in the same (distracted) position.......

That's been concerning me as well. Imagine the potential for foul-ups if AFPAA rolls out JPA to the RN and Army before all this is fixed. Lads and lasses on det, at sea, in the desert etc. should at least be certain that they are being paid correctly and on time.

Imagine the scene - lad gets his 5 mins home via satellite from the middle of the Pacific/desert and his lady gives him 4m 59secs of hell because the joint account hasn't been topped up correctly, and she needs £xxx to pay for Junior's shoes/school trip/you name it.

The Telegraph the other day in an article about JPA referred to flying pay as "a bonus". I thought that the flying was the bonus, and the pay was, well, pay. :E

No idea

29th Jun 2006, 10:26

That's twice now you've posted encouraging me to submit a redress. What is it with you?

The reason I haven't? I believe in the military chain of command, and redress should be your last recourse if all else has failed.

Picture the scene: "so you submitted a redress becaise your pay was continually incorrect?" Answer: "Yes"
"And did you address these issues with the JPA and Stn authorities to allow them to deal with the issues at the appropriate level?"

"Er....no"

"Get out"

Or words to that effect.

SBG

SBG - not quite mate - perhaps you should spend a few moments in your hectic schedule to read the rules. Nevertheless, read into/reflect why I am encouraging personnel to Redress - if you dont nothing will improve. Its your choice, but if you dont then why not stop the whining and whinging if you haven't got the moral courage to stand up and be counted.

PS - My pay hasn't been affected at all.:ok:

dallas

29th Jun 2006, 11:08

On the subject of HTD -

Happened to mention to some of our civvie-service counterparts the way RILOR was changed to HTD overnight ( mid tour for most ) with a reduction in the rates and the 50 mile capping.

Was greeted with 'gasps' of shock, horror & disbelief and comments of 'we'd never accept that..', ' oooh the unions would throw a right wobbler..' etc....

Anyone else's comments on JPA brought on the same reaction I wonder ?

Funny how HTD was the one of the last things to hit the JSP just before the intro...hmmmm......:hmm:

Of course nobody else would accept it, which is why it's been introduced to the audience it has! I'm all for the one-way military relationship when we're being shot at or otherwise trying to get the job done, but this shouldn't be used to deny military personnel the right to some residual employment rights that don't interfere with operational output - I didn't sign-up 'anything they want to do to save money'. Work-time regs are another inconvenient law that the MoD is obliged to follow the spirit of when staff are not on war/ops, but in reality it's routinely ignored except for aircrew and drivers. How many people here are working with less than prescribed manning because of OOAs? See - we shoulder other people's jobs/shifts routinely.

At some point in the future there will be a truly operation-stopping manpower crisis or, even worse, a defeat of ill-equipped, poorly supported, inexperienced British forces. Although not directly responsible, JPA and it's stealth cuts will undoubtedly feature as contributory in the resultant Bloggs Report as another milestone in the erosion of quality of life.

airborne_artist

29th Jun 2006, 11:27

At some point in the future there will be a truly operation-stopping manpower crisis or, even worse, a defeat of ill-equipped, poorly supported, inexperienced British forces. Although not directly responsible, JPA and it's stealth cuts will undoubtedly feature as contributory in the resultant Bloggs Report as another milestone in the erosion of quality of life.

Oh ye of too much faith. Such a crisis will result in a one-page report that will blame the wrong kind of snow and a couple of highly-capable but not so articulate SNCOs and result in promotion for the people who made the key errors but produced a superb PowerPoint pres showing the lessons learned.

Indeed, it will probably carry a paragraph saying "but for the rapid and smooth introduction of JPA, the crisis would have been much worse".

teeteringhead

29th Jun 2006, 11:47

superb PowerPoint pres showing the lessons learned...don't think you even have to "learn" the lessons these days...

... last couple of said PowerPoints I've seen have been "Lessons Identified"!

BEagle

29th Jun 2006, 12:40

Which is tacit admittal of total failure to consider that any lessons could be learned.....

Who are these arrogant donkeys who can't accept that lessons might have to be learned?

I'll bet they're very handy with PowerPoint slide transitions though....:rolleyes:

Ali Barber

29th Jun 2006, 12:49

Actually, I think it's Lessons RE-identified! If not, it bl**dy well should be!!

Vage Rot

29th Jun 2006, 18:58

That's been concerning me as well. Imagine the potential for foul-ups if AFPAA rolls out JPA to the RN and Army before all this is fixed. Lads and lasses on det, at sea, in the desert etc. should at least be certain that they are being paid correctly and on time.

Imagine the scene - lad gets his 5 mins home via satellite from the middle of the Pacific/desert and his lady gives him 4m 59secs of hell because the joint account hasn't been topped up correctly, and she needs £xxx to pay for Junior's shoes/school trip/you name it.

The Telegraph the other day in an article about JPA referred to flying pay as "a bonus". I thought that the flying was the bonus, and the pay was, well, pay. :E

Myself and several sqn mates wrote to our banks, explained the situation and arranged £5k overdrafts before our last trip to the desert as it was over the changeover to JPA!!! Better sfe than sorry!!

PompeySailor

29th Jun 2006, 19:14

Myself and several sqn mates wrote to our banks, explained the situation and arranged £5k overdrafts before our last trip to the desert as it was over the changeover to JPA!!! Better sfe than sorry!!

Noticed some posters appearing on the Rumration web****e defending JPA - which is interesting considering I know that one of them works for AFPAA and is trotting out the exact party line. I wonder if they are trying to put some spin out there before it gets issued to us? I know that the higher echelons are very worried about how the RN are going to receive this - Pay2K was a little bit of a "lessons learned" episode for them regarding PR and dealing with disgruntled matelots, and I don't think they want the same response with this behemoth.

Lots of our people have been appraised of the right to bring a complaint before an inspecting officer, regardless of the CoC.....divisions could prove interesting after "go-live" date!

Almost_done

29th Jun 2006, 19:47

Luckily I have a good bank, black debit card with white writing and it's phone or on-line only. When JPA hit I ensured they were aware of the potential problems and I arranged a 2K overdraft facility if I didn't get paid, luckly I didn't have to use it, however it is still there should I need it, if the system goes Pete Tong.

Banana Boy

29th Jun 2006, 20:50

I'm lucky enough to be serving overseas.
I have no access to JPA without driving 100+ miles. Imagine the excitement of engineering a day off work to submit my travel claim at nearest UK support unit.....finding that JPA is down...going for coffee...then, hoorah, JPA is working....submit claim (takes hours because of crap software)....want to claim 'UK Subsistance'....next question...which country?....England....CLAIM REJECTED...(Country not recognized)....UK?....CLAIM REJECTED.....(Country not recognized)....find drop down menu....find 'UK' on page 10....CLAIM ACCEPTED....funny old thing...I am claiming my 'UK Subsistance'........for being in the UK!....fight my way through countless other unnecessary hurdles.....submit claim.....'VIOLATION'.....there is apparently no way to refuel the hire car.....claim has to go for audit.....no problem,....go to find audit clerk....not in office.....leave photocopy of refuel receipt....and drive back to duty station.
.........Next morning,.....find message on answer phone....can I go back to audit clerk with all other paperwork pertaining to simple UK duty?
.......Plan another day off from primary duty...current estimate is 2 weeks time.

I used to submit a F1771 and forget about it.

JPA is wasting everybodies time! (At least 2 days per month.) The audit clerk is in tears due to the number of 'audits'. I am currently approx £2000 out of pocket....screwed up LOA, home to duty, no LSA, MQ charges, unable to submit legitimate claims....

I have an option in 2 years....and guess what? After 22 years of satisfied service, JPA is the final straw!

Now a 'J' Bloke!!

29th Jun 2006, 21:09

I have an option in 2 years....and guess what? After 22 years of satisfied service, JPA is the final straw!

Hi Gang;I presume that's exactly what they want.....too many frustrated peeps banging their heads against the wall and taking their options...that will decrease the pension burden in a few years time,... A hidden cost saving???:D

Me...it seems to be working pay wise...HTD & LSA still cocked up...out of pocket by (probably) £150 ish....still trying to annoy those HR types with my recurrent moaning though!!!:ugh:

Keep at it guys!!

Later...'J' Bloke!!:cool: