The Last African Flying Boat

[paulc]

I am trying to find a copy of this programme as my copy was eaten by video player :(

anybody out there who might have a copy ?

many thanks
Paulc

[treadigraph]

Is this the programme with Alexander Frater about the Cat flight down the Nile and across to Mozambique? If so I have a very poor broadcast copy on VHS - I might be able to find a way of transferring to CD/DVD.

[paulc]

Treadigraph,

thats the one - a copy on dvd would be much appreciated

rgds
Paulc

[MEON VALLEY FLYER]

sort of related item. been busy at work and out of Uk for a few months. Any update on the cats at Lee ?

[paulc]

N423RS still present as of last Friday - rumoured to have been sold but have heard that before.

ex VP- went by Road to Ireland - last noted at Weston.

[MEON VALLEY FLYER]

So the plan to get the super cat back in the air ended in nothing then ?

Hardly suprised. If you buy an airworthy machine and don't fly it, why would you rebuild an worn out hulk and say your gonna operate it ?

[paulc]

unfortunately it did - being involved with it since the start along with other volunteers it was a disappointing end to the project. However the good things to come out of were some new friends (+ 1 a**hole), 'hands on' experience of working with an aircraft and learning new things.

The owner only bought the airworthy one for the large quantity of spares that came with it - it was suggested that the group keep that one airworthy but it proved too expensive. (1 person bankrolling RS + 2 on VP)

As for saying we would operate the super cat - that was the intention but on dismantelling the aircraft for moving, it became obvious that it would be a long term project. (+ 1 a**hole running before we could even crawl)

PM if you want more details

[treadigraph]

Good news, my colleague can do the transfer to DVD - will take a few days though. PM me your address. Afraid it's a bit snowy from memory...

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I have seen that video several times and found it interesting as I used to fly the same machine in Canada.

It is also a very good reference aid for how not to fly one on the water.

Chuck E.

[Newforest]

It is also a very good reference aid for how not to fly one on the water.
Chuck E.

What? Why? For those of us unfortunate enough not to have seen the video, please give us a few clues about how to fly it!

[treadigraph]

I'll have a guess at the "hot, high and heavy" take off from Lake Naivasha Chuck? Approx 5000' ASL. Abandoned until the cool of the next morning with just two on board.

Paul C, found the vid, will try and get it sorted during the week if I can nail my colleague to his desk for an hour or two...

Regards

Treadders

[Chuck Ellsworth]

"I'll have a guess at the "hot, high and heavy" take off from Lake Naivasha Chuck? Approx 5000' ASL. Abandoned until the cool of the next morning with just two on board."

Yes that was a very good example of incorrect airplane handling in an attempt to force it to fly. It clearly demonstrates that with incorrect pitch attitudes the Cat will poropise every time, he aborted before he wrecked the thing but it is unlikely he understood what was really going on.

The Cat is unforgiving of incorrect pitch attitude during take off and landing and that has been the reason for many fatal accidents. I have a collection of pictures showing correct and incorrect pitch attitudes on the water that I use as reference material for teaching water handling during training.

Anyhow I am now into my second month of retirement and am finding it strange having the summer off.

I have turned my training business over to the Dutch crew and am truly pleased with their grasp of how to properly fly a Cat on the water, on the land it is just another airplane, on the water it can quickly kill you if you do not understand how to fly it.

By the way, has the Cat at Lee on Solent been sold yet?

Chuck E.

[paulc]

treadigraph,

many thanks

Chuck,

rumoured to have been sold but have heard them before

[Nardi Riviera]

Nice to have you back, Chuck!

Now that you're retired (?), hopefully we'll enjoy your company here more often...

Very happy to see that Cat's are so close. Grew up with the critters nearby. Good excuse for a trip to Lelystad.

:)

[treadigraph]

Nardi Riviera - now there was another nice looking seaplane! Never seen one, did they build many and are there survivors?

Paulc, afraid my colleague is still away and I am off next week - hope you're not impatient to see it again! I'll try and sit with him when he does it and learn how/what to do with the kit in question.

Good to see the Dutch Cat at Duxford last weekend doing a "same day, same way" formation... Ahhhh...

[gaunty]

Is that the vid where the crew seek some local advice re SAM and RPG fire from the local felons from a fellow called Bill Cragg, who was flying a relief and aeromed King Air I think.

He was himself shot down and killed some time later?

[treadigraph]

Yep, Bill Cragg does make an appearance - in the Sudan or Ethiopia I think.

[gaunty]

I knew him from a stay he had in Perth as an aircraft Salesperson for the local Cessna Dealer.

He dropped out of sight then the next time I saw him was on the docco.

I remember the docco very well not so much for the "cameo appearance" of Bill but for the notion of Grand Touring in chintzy art deco comfort in a Cat.

I may be mixing up aircraft but did this one have wicker chairs in the bubbles??

[DH106]

The Cat is unforgiving of incorrect pitch attitude during take off and landing and that has been the reason for many fatal accidents. I have a collection of pictures showing correct and incorrect pitch attitudes on the water that I use as reference material for teaching water handling during training.

Interesting info Chuck.
Do you have these pictures in electronic format - would be very helpful to see them.
Failing that - what pitch attitude/pilot actions are bad and what are good ?

Thanks

[treadigraph]

It would be a lovely thing to do given the chance - re the wicker chairs, well now I guess that means I need to watch it again!

Is Bill definitely no longer with us? Seemed a very nice guy from the film...

[paulc]

no problem - am also off on hols soon (EAA Oshkosh) so sometime in August will be fine.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

DH106:

The Cat has a very narrow pitch range on the water or it will commence to porpoise.

The safe range is limited to 5 degrees of pitch change..
..

..the best attitude is about 3 degrees nose up...however if you are to nose low it will build a bow wave that forces the nose up, and when it reaches around 7 degrees of nose up the aft part of the hull will force the nose down, once this occillation begins things happen very, very fast and complete loss of control will occur by three occillations resulting in distruction of the airplane.

The weakest link in the operation of a Cat on the water is the nose gear doors, unless they are rigged properly they will tear off if you submerge them in the water at high speed, and that is just about unrecoverable.

That is a very simple and short explination, if you are really interested in learning the finer points of how to fly a Cat get in touch with the Dutch guys, they are very good and are current on the Cat.

Also the group in New Zealand have a very good track record with regard to water operations.

It's not that I do not want to help its just that I am burnt out and want to start living like a normal person and do something besides fly airplanes.

Once again I highly recommend the Dutch guys because they do a lot of water work with their Cat.

Chuck E.

[Nardi Riviera]

Chuck -

Appreciate that you need to rest after hauling Cats all over for a lifetime.

BUT - even if you stay at home there's always the internet, where you can give us novices good advice. Trust you have transferred neccessary competence to the Dutch guys at Lelystad.

Seems there is a gap between oldies and newbies these days. Wonder why "someone" never bothered to teach their kids the tricks.

Read a piece about keeping an old US WWII bomber flying. Their problem was getting competent flight-engineers: An even more threathened species than sea-pilots!

Regards, Nardi (also nearly extinct)

[Nardi Riviera]

Chuck, you stated:

"The Cat has a very narrow pitch range on the water or it will commence to porpoise."

After reading C Baj's book on sea-flying (Lake-pilot), this seems to be a trait for flying boats, small or large?

Do enjoy those tidbits of knowledge that you enstowe on us.

Hope you'll stay tuned so we can learn more. :O

[DH106]

Thanks for the info Chuck - very interesting again.

Wasn't the breach of the nose gear doors the main cause of the accident to Plane Sailing's Cat VP-BPS in 1998? It does seem they were an Achilies Heel.