Starting as DEFO in Canada ?

[csdeo]

Hi can anyone give me information on the salary and housing allowance that CX is paying for DEFO in Canada.

Thanks.

[Glorified Donkey]

Correct me if Im wrong, but I think the housing allowance only applies to pilots living in Hong Kong.

[cpdude]

Your not wrong and correct me if I am wrong but I don't think CX has hired a DEFO freighter to a Canadian port in almost 5 years.

[Glorified Donkey]

I think that is correct, Ive only heard of them hiring for Chicago, New York and Los Angeles bases.

[Glacier1900]

I think im still a bit confused on the system at CX (as SO). So you pass the interview and get trained. They then flip a coin to see if you are going pax or cargo? And as for bases, ive heard some people say that everyone starts in HKG, is that the case? Then do you bid to another base (say YVR) until you can hold FO in HKG? Then can you can bid back to another base (for reduced pay)? Or choose to line in HKG for more money? Is that roughly the program?

[Glorified Donkey]

From what I understand, SO goes to the passenger fleet on either the 747 or 340 fleet. DEFO goes into Freighter for a certain amount of time i think its 5 years. then they can bid for passenger fleet. SO are all based in HKG while DEFO can bid on bases outside of HKG. As for north american i dont think they are hiring for YYZ or YVR bases on either the freighter or passenger fleet

[Five Green]

Yes they did hire onto YYZ base in 2002 or so. It was when they were not taking Yanks and they wanted the Canucks but alot did not want to commute. So CX hired on to Canadian freighter bases briefly. Then with all the US layoffs "no need" anymore so no more hiring onto Canadian bases. Having said that with the intro of YYZ to the freighter sched soon it would make sense to hire a few for there.You would find out in your interview!

Also to be clear SO to pax fleet Hong Kong only, DEFO to N.America and Europe on whichever base is available. You will be hired and then will take up a base immediately on completion of training, in the priority you bid (ie you may not get 1st or 2nd choice).
The DEFO freighter commitment is training time (between 3-6 mos) and then 3 years from the date of your first revenue flight on your base. Dependng on crewing requirement and seniority to hold an FO slot in PAX roster.

Housing only in Hong Kong.

You are hired as an SO or as a DEFO, no coin toss.

To quote Bob Dylan (sort of) "The scales they are a changin" try calling HR and see if they can send you something. Off the top of my head they are somewhere around $87 thou U.S. to start and $5000 per year raise. Plus hourly duty pay of aprox $300 per month and per diem of average about 100-150 US per day away, plus 15.5% provident (retirement) fund contribution. You get paid during training and get hotel and per diem.
Hope that answers you questions.
Cheers

[Mach75]

What are the chances of getting a North American basing for a DESO after he has put in several years (5-6 yrs plus) in Hong Kong as an S/O and has finally been upgraded to F/O?

[Grinch]

The last 3 years and for the foreseeable future .

S/O - Hired only for HKG...3-4 years till upgrade to F/O, Seniority is DOH... questionable if this continues as CX is looking for a deal with HKAOA about DEFO (FTR type scale ) for HKG.

F/O - Hiring for Bases (not HKG) Europe & North America no expat package - straight salary plus Pfund %. 3 years min from check out (seniority # is DOH) commitment to remain on FTR, then do what you like subject to Seniority and available slots on base or HKG. Not likely to do lateral move to different fleet unless upgrade - presently 8-10 yrs til Capt on PAx fleet - Ftr fleet has had guys on course as early as 2 years from DOH but extremely low pass rate ...

North America Bases - FTR - ATL, JFK, LAX, ANC, ORD, .... Nationality does not matter as long as you show up for work on time ... taxes for non Americans are your problem. Americans have some withheld for the IRS.

No Canada bases period. Some lucky ones got YVR or YYZ but not in the last 4 years ... not likely to change but never say never.

[Mach75]

Thanks for the reply but could you give me a little more info. Once an S/O on the passenger fleet is upgraded to F/O on the passenger fleet is it possible to get a North American basing on the passenger fleet and, if so, are there huge wait lists to get onto a North American base?

Is it possible to move laterally between the Passenger & Freighter fleets at the time of upgrade from S/O to F/O (JF/O)?

Also, if a Canadian like myself were to get based in LAX for example how difficult would a commute be from the west coast of Canada and how much could you expect to spend monthly on commuting? My understanding is that CX travel passes are not the best in the industry and that travelling can get quite expensive, any input?

Sorry for all the questions but I've got one more: In a scenario such as this where a Canadian is commuting to the US for work does he pay US income tax, Canadian income tax, or both?

[cpdude]

Mach75,

I'll try to answer your questions.

An S/O that upgrades to a JF/O would most likely do so on the A330 or B777, both of which do NOT offer the ability to take a base anywhere outside of Hong Kong. CX used to have a policy that you must be a RC (relief commander) to bid for a base but I believe this was scrapped a couple of years ago.

If you went on the A330 then eventually (I believe within 2 years as a new JF/O) you can CCQ on the A340 and go on a base. Currently, I believe, YVR is full and YYZ may still be frozen.

If you went B777 then you could try to transfer over to the B747 in a couple of years or just wait for a B777 base when they take-over some B747 routes to NA. Either way, expect to stay 5-6 years in Hong Kong if you follow the S/O route.

It is possible to step from S/O pax to F/O freighter but you must qualify for F/O freighter the same way you do now and I would only suggest this if you could get an S/O course significantly earlier, 1-2 years, then a DEFO.

If you join as a DEFO freighter and get a LAX base then I would plan on $1,000USD/month to commute and that should more than cover all your expenses (hotels, flights, food).

Lastly, no USA taxes just Hong Kong tax and Canadian tax where you claim your foreign tax (Hong Kong tax) as a credit on your Canadian tax payable.

Good luck.:ok:

[Five Green]

CP Dude and Mach


Actually you must still be relief FO qual to take a N. American base. You can take European or Aus NZ without. Don't know the logic behind that one. Except in N.America the freighter FOs can transfer with or without the relief qualif. So time to get that done is 3-4 year SO, 2-3 years FO successful Relief upgrade and then on to the base.


That takes seven years from now and who knows what the system will be like then. The plan is to have all N. American using 777s which may or may not speed up the process. Also the proposed DEFO universal (will fly both Freight and pax on reduced scale) will dramatically change the transfer from Hong Kong as the plan is to hire directly on to the N. American bases eventually (the DEFO pax will start in Aus )


Also not too many SOs are allowed to transfer onto the freighter fleet. I know alot who have asked and not many who are moved over to FO.
The good news is there will be a need for alot more based FOs so it should all even out. There are plans for N. American expansion.


So hard to answer your question as we are standing by for new messages ourselves !!


Cheers

[Mach75]

Those are some good answers, thank you. Any idea how the seniority will be handled with this new DEFO passenger scheme? Would an S/O who was hired today have a higher seniority number than one of those F/O's hired say a year from now? Also, when you say that this will dramatically change the transfer from Hong Kong do you mean that it could potentially prevent an F/O based in HK from ever getting a North American base somewhere down the road?

[Double Wasp]

Does CX have ID fares with AC? If so what are they 90, 75, 50..., Can They be used on their feeder carriers such as Jazz? Any info would really help.
DW

[mayday911]

Mach 75,

One seniority list in CX....SO hired today is senior to an F/O hired tomorrow, no matter where they are based.

Mayday

[RazorB]

Is it possible to be hired as a DEFO in ANC and stay there for a complete career? If so, how long would it take to upgrade to Capt?

Cheers,

[dhoonk]

Does CX have ID fares with AC? If so what are they 90, 75, 50..., Can They be used on their feeder carriers such as Jazz?

Yes. Both CX and AC/Jazz are ZED carriers. So you can use a ZED-fare ticket to commute on AC/Jazz.

[dhoonk]

Is it possible to be hired as a DEFO in ANC and stay there for a complete career? If so, how long would it take to upgrade to Capt?


Yes.

They would love to have DEFOs willing to be based in ANC. However, they have not offered a CAPT position in ANC for quite some time now. Once they acknowledge the need for Captains in ANC, you should be able to upgrade into the left seat and spend the rest of your career there.