The arm rests at the back are slowly sinking

[lek]

Hi Air Folks,

Newby alert, as far as this forum is concerned, been lurking awhile and I guess that my impression so far is that most of the stuff posted is inhouse talk, BUT that I may get a fair hearing from the day to day pro's

I'm posting as a disgruntled rear ender.

I've flown 4 times in the past month on an Airbus 340/500 in the Southern Hemisphere. I had trouble resting my arms on the arm rests. It's become a contradiction in terms. I'm average height, 5' 11" but couldn't reach down to the armrests in a normal seated position. I Had to use pillows to rest my arms on the armrests.

Another thing is the "Seat in Front Back in the Face" thingy, yeah I'm being a bit flippant but I'm sure that cabin crew have to deal with this ever and anon. I'm not sure how much thought is put into this issue for CC but I know that you'all end up trying to separate passengers on a regular basis.

My personal view is that the seats should be fixed forward and not reclinable. If the joker in front of me puts his seat back it means I can't see the PTV, I can't read and worst of all, even though we all know the theory, I feel a major intrusion to "my space". Yup, that's the bubble we all carry around to protect us from being "intruded" upon. This anonymous person IN FRONT of me is in my face, in my space. I'll call you for assistance and if it's not forthcoming I'll do as I did in the 5th hour of a 20 hour flight, grab the seat and push the whole thing forward outa my face. Well of course "She" got hustled off to Business and all I got was dirty looks for the rest of the flight.

Got a few more things that niggle but I'll hold off to see the reaction to this.

Thanks

Lek

[HorseTrailer]

Good on yah Lek,I totally agree with you about the Seat back in front...can't read a newspaper,can't eat properly,can't sit properly..(I',m 6'3").That's how it is these days..cram 'em in,many as you can,ok if yr a jockey I suppose.
I haven't experienced the arm rest thing yet...maybe my elbows are closer to the floor than yours!
Cheers...HorseTrailer

[TightSlot]

...I'll do as I did in the 5th hour of a 20 hour flight, grab the seat and push the whole thing forward outa my face...

A mature, considered and considerate response to the circumstances. It is tempting to try and debate with you, but I have a horrible feeling that this might be a waste of time. Possibly somebody else would be kind enough to explain why aggression can lead to violence, and why both are a bad idea onboard an aircraft.

[BRUpax]

Well, I agree with you to a point but you might be treading on thin ice here TIGHTSLOT. Many of us know where LEK is coming from. More often than not "a mature and considerate response" is met with abuse from the pax concerned and little help from FAs. The airlines are to blame, period. If there was worldwide industry legislation governing an agreed minimum seat pitch and seat recline, it would do away with this problem. Sure, fares may have to increase, but it would be across the board. At present competition seems to be all about how many pax you can cram into your aeroplane.

[TightSlot]

I can quite understand the frustration felt and even sympathise: Crew also regularly travel in economy (contrary to perception, we are not usually upgraded, especially when travelling with another carrier) and experience precisely the same issue. An FA cannot intervene if the customer in front is simply reclining their seat, thereby using a facility offered by the airline and paid for by the customer.

My issue is that the behaviour described is physically aggressive and highly likely to lead to some sort of incident in the cabin. It is unlikely to achieve anything except to cause distress to those surrounding and risk escalation to some form of more serious incident. If people feel that this is an acceptable method of expressing dis-satisfaction, then so be it. I'm afraid I don't.

[StarWinder]

The only practical response to a seat back in front of you is to keep your distance - i.e. recline if the person in front reclines. However, for meals, this is a definite no-no, and I have found that most airlines are quite strict about seat backs having to be upright during meal services.

I have in the past had a problem with only one airline in this respect, and it was QF on a flight from MEL to BNE. During breakfast service, the chap in front of me was asleep and had his seat back in my face. When I asked the FA to get him to sit upright, she refused to do anything about it, essentially saying that his comfortable sleep was more important than my comfortable dining experience (which, by the way, is an advertised ingredient of the flight). I pushed up the seat back in front of me myself, but I have successfully avoided QF since for their sh1t attitude to passenger service as displayed here.

I note Lek is from the Southern Hemisphere, so perhaps the seat back thing is a particular problem down there.:ouch:

[lek]

Mate, talk about causing distress to the surrounding passengers, and what about me. I'm in distress already with the seat in my face.

I'll give the example that sparked my little rant. Last week on a flight the plane was pretty full but when the seat belt sign unlit the bloke in front of me got up and grabbed a spare seat down the front a bit. Beauty I thought, that takes care of the seat problem. A couple of hours into the flight as I was speaking to one of the senior f/as the guy diagonally in front moved over to the seat directly in front of me and whammo, seat back in my face!
I said to the f/a, would you mind asking him to put the seat up. She refused point blank, only when we serve meals. He's entitled to put his seat back. Ok says I, look over there and pointed at the original occupant now happily seated down the aisle, that's the guy who has rights to the seat. I'm in the middle of watching a movie and now can't see the screen.
Nothing doing. I said ok I'll ask him, I tapped him on the shoulder and asked him politely if he would mind putting the seat back up. At this point the f/a said something uncomplimentary about me to the guy in their native tongue. He put the seat up, she thanked him as did I. I looked at her and thanked her also in the same language. She did a double take and I said yes I understood what you said, I lived in the Middle East for 25 years. At least she had the grace to go red in the face.

Now I know we sign away most of our rights and dignity when we are so cheap as to fly economy. What I was canvassing in the original post was any ideas about how to best get along with this real problem.

[10secondsurvey]

I must agree with all that's been said. If airlines put in so many seats that reclining causes problems, then they must remove the recline function. I have previously faced a similar situation, and despite a polite request got nowhere. I did as the gentleman above did, grabbed the seat and pushed it forward - it's actually quite easy. Chap in front got the message.

I also very strongly agree on the point earlier regarding an international standard (to ensure adequate comfort) being set for economy seat pitch minimum. This would ensure all airlines could still compete on a level playing field.

[jag_girl]

I remember when i first started flying (20 years ago) ppl had respect for each outher,now it is all me me me me !!!why should the airline decide for them,when it comes down to it we are even asking the government to legislate what we can & can't do.I find that if you ask in a nice way you get what you want most of the time ........ie:would it be possible for you to ask the pax in front to put his seat back forward ? Not.... 'tell him to put his seat up'! or pushing it fwd without even letting him know it was a prob in the firstplace.....ppl just don't think.JAG

[Big Harvey]

My personal view is that the seats should be fixed forward and not reclinable. If the joker in front of me puts his seat back it means I can't see the PTV, I can't read and worst of all, even though we all know the theory, I feel a major intrusion to "my space". Yup, that's the bubble we all carry around to protect us from being "intruded" upon. This anonymous person IN FRONT of me is in my face, in my space. I'll call you for assistance and if it's not forthcoming I'll do as I did in the 5th hour of a 20 hour flight, grab the seat and push the whole thing forward outa my face. Well of course "She" got hustled off to Business and all I got was dirty looks for the rest of the flight.



Your attitude in trying to force the person in front of you to sit bolt upright, particularly on a longhaul flight, seems to me to be an extremely selfish one. If the person in front of you reclines, simply do so yourself. Problem solved. I've never had a problem with the person in front of me reclining (I always do just as I suggested earlier), and never had a problem viewing in-flight entertainment once I've reclined my own seat. There's also the fact that most people like to sleep for the duration or much of the duration of a flight, which is easier for most people in a reclined seat than an upright one.

I agree that (depending on seat pitch) it could conceivably be a problem at mealtimes, but in my experience, cabin crew usually make passengers put their seat backs up for the duration of meals anyway.

I just hope I never get you or anyone like you sitting behind me on a long-haul flight.

[GwynM]

the problem is worse if you're in the seat just in fromt of a bulkhead, and your seat won't recline. All you can do is then go back to your childhood and keep "accidentally" knocking the seat in front until they get the message - and watch the domino effect going forward.

The only thing worse than a reclined seat in front is a kid behind whose legs only seen to reach the small of your back and they just spend the whole time kicking you.:ouch:

[Globaliser]

My personal view is that the seats should be fixed forward and not reclinable. ... I'll call you for assistance and if it's not forthcoming I'll do as I did in the 5th hour of a 20 hour flight ...I must agree with all that's been said. If airlines put in so many seats that reclining causes problems, then they must remove the recline function.On a 20-hour flight? You lot must be joking! How are we supposed to sleep?

The airline that makes it impossible for me to sleep on a 20-hour flight by removing the recline function will lose my business, that's for sure. Some of us have to hit the ground running when we get to the other end. And I'll bet that's more business than is given by people who can get so worked up about reclining.

But I'm pleased to hear the outcome of Lek's story. It amply demonstrates who was in the right and who was in the wrong.