PM to get two 'Blair Force Ones'

[Graham Borland]

Prime Minister Tony Blair is set to get the go-ahead later this month for two "Blair Force One" planes to fly him on official trips, the BBC has learned.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5098126.stm

[longarm]

about bloody time!

[ALLDAYDELI]

I wonder if this is being fixed directly with operators or using charter brokers? Anyone know?

[OpsSix]

Great, £12.3m to ferry one bloke around. :rolleyes:

[sky9]

The intention is to lease 2 aircraft. I suspect that the reason is one of security, now that the threat from terrorists on the PM has increased.
No doubt it will be fitted with anti missile defence systems.

[Nearly Man]

How long is this cock monkey intending to stay in power to enjoy his jet?

[bobleeds]

Depending on the delivery time required, it's more than likely to be Tony Blair's successor who is first to take advantage of such an aircraft (or I wouldn't be surprised if it's first use would be to ferry the Duke of York on a vital business tour of the Carribbean or somewhere that a major golf tournament is being staged).

[Ms Spurtle]

Will the bigger one be an A319/A320 or will he go for a A330/A350 to impress the little countries he visits ?

[Rigga]

I think a 75-seat A321 would suit him nicely.
As to whether the larger one is an Airbus or Boeing would depend on the size of the FSTA deal I suppose!

A Fokker 70 would do nicely for the European holidays (Oops! - Summits.)

[Monkey Boy]

Well that news is going to upset one Gatwick based brokerage I should think! Wonder if that decision was based on any recent DC-8 charters that may not have gone quite according to plan? :hmm:

[chornedsnorkack]

Will the bigger one be an A319/A320 or will he go for a A330/A350 to impress the little countries he visits ?
What about A340-300/500? Better range than even A330-200, 4 engines giving better obstacle clearance and ETOPS freedom?

[Lost_luggage34]

No doubt a panel of highly paid Civil Servants cost the taxpayer several hundred thousand pounds to conduct the feasibility study. :rolleyes:

[brakedwell]

There's a nice Bristol Britannia parked at Kemble :rolleyes:

[MEON VALLEY FLYER]

and sh1t loads of J31's parked idle all over. or a pair of BAC1-11 on ebay, usa. Anything else British about for scrap money ?

[Haven't a clue]

Maybe it's the unidentified order for the 747-8 Intercontinental......

[MEON VALLEY FLYER]

Haven't :}

Thanks to G Browns managing of our nations pusre from # 11 let alone what would happen if he moved next door. We couldn't even afford the landing fee for the 748-I:(

[The AvgasDinosaur]

How many seats does Mr Abramovic have in his 767-300 ?? Be nice to save a few bob and have a share pool.
What does Mrs A. have the use of these days has he still got the "old" BBJ on the books?
Be lucky
David

[tb10er]

First we had 2 jags, now 2 jets.

Any I bet it will have a hair saloon for the 1st lady (Cherie that is, not Elizabeth).

:)

[brakedwell]

and a croquet lawn for his deputy.

[sky9]

No a double bed or was it an office desk?:)

[Bigears]

MEON VALLEY FLYER,
I agree.
If the PM <had> to travel in a British aircraft in the past, we might still be manufacturing them now!
A spokesman for the Transport and General Workers Union, said it was "extraordinary that the prime minister should not be flying in a British-built plane".
Looking at our Aviation Heritage, I find it extraordinary that we don't make them still :{

[brakedwell]

MEON VALLEY FLYER,
Looking at our Aviation Heritage, I find it extraordinary that we don't make them still :{
We made nice aeroplanes, but most were a commercal disaster. They were either too late, too heavy, too thirsty and over engineered.

[Lon More]

Both presumably wide bodies for 2 jags?

Good idea really; in today's political climate would you feel entirely safe knowing a leading politician of whatever party was up in business class?

[25F]

Who would operate these aircraft? RAF personnel? BA? Virgin? BinLadenAir?

[robo283]

Who would operate these aircraft? RAF personnel? BA? Virgin? BinLadenAir?
Norman Tebbit used to be an ATPL. Perhaps he could dust it down and take the controls. 2 Jags and Upside-Down-Mouth would have a thrombie!;)

[flaps to 60]

I dont like blair and his bunch of self serving tossers he calls a government but its about time the UK had a proper transport for its head of state and PM what ever you may think of them.

Saw a picture of some former Soviet state's transport whose PM had an A300 to run around in and how many other smaller and less industrialised nations have you seen turn up at a summit with all sorts of tasty kit and our PM turns up a battered 146 or ancient Tristar or VC10 that doubles up as a tanker.

It's the old British disease that no one can do well unless they be criticised. How dare someone do well and show off their success.

Well i say that this country is succesful despite our leader. Yes it could be better but then we'd only find something else to moan about. So get the biggest plane you can find and at least have some pride in that rather than criticise his blairness.

Airforce one to the Americans is a status symbol and when the US president turns up somewhere people take note because he turned up in one big get to **** aircraft. Blair turns up in a chartered BA 777/747 and im sure people ask why cant the 4th richest economies leader afford something better.


A340-600 for the long haul stuff and a 321 for Europe.

Rule Britannia etc:ok:

[Lon More]

Most posters here falling over themselves to attack the PM and his party. Earliest announcements I heard stated it was also for the Royal Family and also presumably the leaders of the opposition parties. Lots of complaints about it costing an extra 2 million. No mention of the reduction in cost saved by the Royal Flight aircraft not having to be replaced

[Nov71]

The BBC suggest the long haul a/c will be a Boeing 727. Both will be leased, like our new hospitals but second-hand. IMO should be replacement a/c for Queen's Flight (not very New Labour), flown and maintained by RAF.
Could have got a good discount on an Airbus or reduced fares from recently-gonged Stelios.
How about a new Royal Yacht for State visits and foreign entertaining. Savings on 5 star hotel bills would soon pay for it.

[Porker964]

Per BBC,
"The decision to order the two aircraft follows a study into the costs of ministerial travel by businessman and government spending adviser Sir Peter Gershon"

"They are expected to cost around £12.3m a year - about £2.7m more than the current arrangement."

So what sense does that make then?

And just what value do we UK tax payers receive from the nominal £12m spent at present??

Flaps to 60: mate sure dead cool to have a brand new jet when you are raping your population for the cost of it. When should a statesman's vehicle proxy for his worth?

[MarkD]

The Times and Independent suggests a 737 is the choice for the 85 seat. Maybe a Bombardier Global Express for the corporate jet to throw a sop to UK industry?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2235534,00.html
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article1093525.ece
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/06/20/ublairforce.xml

But Airbus don't make a corporate 32x aircraft which with IAE V2527 engines would have lots of UK content - hang on... they do you know! The Czechs just ordered two.
http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfamilies/acj/specifications.html

[alibaba]

Sorry Chaps it is about bl**dy time:ok:

You only have to go to Rome Ciampino to see the amount of Italian A319-320's and other bigger a/c for Italian heads of state.

The head of state and the head of government need a hassle free, secure and less time consuming way to travel. Globalization is changing things considerably and the PM, whoever he/she might be! Need's to be able to travel for all sort of reasons. The same go's for the Queen.

To be turning up in a DASH 8 on hire and all other kinds of stuff is a joke when Armenia or some other country is turning up in a shiny B737 or A320. No offense to Armenia it is just we are talking about a country that sits in the G8 group of largest economies in the world here.

The 146's have to land every 1000 or so nautical miles and you need something long range. I don't know what it will be but it should be a A320, 330/340 or a B737, 777 combination.

I don't think the cost of replacing the 146's has been taken into account and it should be. It is pot calling the kettle black with the conservatives having a go about this. We already know about Mr Cameron's appetite for travel with his trip to the Glacier in Norway.

How many 100's of Easy and Ryanair 737's and A319's are traveling round carrying people to Spain for nothing? If we are worried about pollution we should compare that to one or two 73's for a head of state. There is no comparison really.

Even Sweden, the bastion of Liberalism and centre left politics has a head of state aircraft.

Funny enough, Air Force One was on London upper frequency yesterday evening. How many people on frequency were looking out of the window for a glimpse? It has nothing to do with Bush or Blair it has everything to do with the reasons given above but also the symbol of a country putting it's best foot forward. Is that so shameful an agenda?

[sky9]

Could I be impertinent and point out that Blair is not a Head of State but a Prime Minister (First Lord of the Treasury).

If what is being proposed is an aircraft for the Head of State that would be used by the Prime Minister, I don't have an issue. I do however have an issue if the aircraft is used to provide an image for this puffed up man who thinks that he is head of state and want to act like one.

[alibaba]

Yes the Prime Minister is First Lord Of The Treasury as it say's on the big black door. I understand the PM is not head of state, the Sovereign is. I didn't say the PM was. ;)

The PM though is the leader for all intents and purposes of the democratically elected government of the UK. I am not going to get into the detail of constitutional responsibilities. The PM is basically representing the people of the UK politically and is the person primarily responsible for government policy.

The Sovereign and the PM need good and capable transport that is up to the job for the tasks required, it is as simple as that.

It also has nothing to do with the individual man/ women or their policies but with the position of Sovereign and PM.

[In the slot]

How about an idle Concorde that has been sitting around LHR 27L for quite a while. At least SOME of that is british isn't it??!!

At least it might be able to get him OUT of trouble as quickly (mach2) as he seems to get himself INTO trouble.

Plus he'll have the added advantage of waving at George W Bush as he overtakes him at FL490.
Would be one of the few times Blair would not be looking up (or sucking up to) Bush's tailpipe!:D

[egnxema]

I write this waiting for the flurry of responses, in my world £12m is a lot of money - a huge amount. But in the world of most multinational corps £12m is a cough. In the world of the G8 nations £12m is a hiccup at most.

The government of the UK spends A LOT more than £12m per year on overseas military exercises.

The National Lottery dishes out £12m every few months for guys/girls in the street to splash on a Ranger Rover/ huge house and Footballers lifestyle - but you could bet that many of the same individuals who complain at the price tag of Royal/Governmental jets would gladly stick their hand out for a National Lottery Cheque for anything in the region of £10m!!

Should some get off the "moral high ground" on this issue and just go with the flow? At the end of the day we happen to live in one of the richest nations in the world - and on that sort of scale £12m really isn't alot of money!

When FR order 120 738's at a time why do some get SO upset when the government wants to order 2?

[egnxema]

I write this waiting for the flurry of responses, in my world £12m is a lot of money - a huge amount. But in the world of most multinational corps £12m is a cough. In the world of the G8 nations £12m is a hiccup at most.

The government of the UK spends A LOT more than £12m per year on overseas military exercises.

The National Lottery dishes out £12m every few months for guys/girls in the street to splash on a Ranger Rover/ huge house and Footballers lifestyle - but you could bet that many of the same individuals who complain at the price tag of Royal/Governmental jets would gladly stick their hand out for a National Lottery Cheque for anything in the region of £10m!!

Should some get off the "moral high ground" on this issue and just go with the flow? At the end of the day we happen to live in one of the richest nations in the world - and on that sort of scale £12m really isn't alot of money!

When FR order 120 738's at a time why do some get SO upset when the government wants to order 2?

[AirportsEd]

I'm with In The Slot on this one - the UK's leaders should have some kind of status symbol machine to impress, so what better than Concorde!
Nice 80th birthday present for HRH!
It will only rot away unless someone gets their act together...:)

[brakedwell]

A Concorde would cost 12 million a WEEK. H.E Tony B Liar wouldn't gain any respect deplaning from an extended range B737/A320 after flying half way around the world. He would become the laughing stock of African despots and an object of pity among the leaders of the developed world. Anything smaller than a B767 is a backward step. :sad: :sad: :sad:

[Nov71]

It has been suggested the main cost benefit of Blair1 & 2 is not having to replace the aging Queen's Flight but the RAF will still maintain a Support Command Comms Flight which all Ministers & Royal Family could use for UK trips
For prestige you might expect the Govt & Royal Family to support the 'UK National Airline' for trips beyond the UK

If prestige, safety and secure comms are important, why are they only leasing second-hand aircraft at £12.7M / yr. The capital cost of new would be offset over 25 years
Why did TB scrap the Royal Yacht? because he couldn't book it?

Comments from tonight's Questiontime
1. A/c only pay their way when flying (charter rather than contract leasing? )
2. In the last year HM used the Royal Flight 7 times, Tony et al ~700
3. Maybe Tony has realised that road & rail travel in the UK is impossible


The public perception is that Tone wants to emulate Bush. If he wants his own a/c I would support the taxpayer contributing to his PPL trg