Atlantic Flight Training

[ghandou]

Hi People!

I'm currently about to embark on my ATPL Theory distance learning at AFT in Coventry. I've been down to the school and had a good look around, plus quizzed the instructors about their operation etc. As anyone who has done their theory knows, choosing a school can be quite a task; however for me the location is perfectly suited as I only live 45 mins away. I'm also planning on finishing all my licenses with AFT upon completion of my theory, CPL, MEP/IR, MCC etc. My question is quite simple really, what are people's opinions of AFT for anyone that has any kind of experience with the school? I'm quite impressed with what I've seen and have been told so far, but any pros and cons would definitely be of help. Cheers guys.

[Blueskyrich]

Well, as a current distance-learning ATPL student with AFT , I can only give praise so far.

I've found the course material of a good quality, the people there very knowledgeable and friendly and I am impressed.

The cost of the ATPL theory is much of a muchness I think and I don't think you'll see the costs differ much between providers. AFT aren't one of the cheaper flight schools but in their defence, I will say that they do run a very professional outfit with some very modern and impressive equipment.

So far, so good :)

[BlueRobin]

I've flown with AFT FI Andy to get some quality conversion time on my aircraft. Top bloke and knows his stuff.

They're quite into their aeroplanes (the owner's classic collection proves that) so I think from an outsider's viewpoint, they don't exhibit lacking passion.

[Penworth]

I did my MECR and IR with AFT and was very impressed with the standard of instruction and the general attitude of everybody at the school. The only gripe I had was the lack of multiengine aircraft - this was when they only had 1 seminole to cover all the ME and advanced IR training, which meant I didn't get to fly quite as often as I would have liked. However, I understand they've now got some DA42 Twinstar's, so this problem has probably been alleviated. I can't comment on the groundschool side as I went elsewhere for that, but for the flying I would definitely recommend them. :ok:

[aswind]

Hi folks,

Well this is my first post in PPRuNe and I am very happy to be a new user with many great people here.

My name is Aswin and I am Italian and 20 yo.
Since childhood I've dreamed a career as airline pilot and now I'd like to begin my path.
I have no experience and I'd like to achieve fATPL.

I find Atlantic Flight Training in Coventry very interesting and I'd like to join them soon! I know that AFT is great and has positive feedbacks.

But I have some questions for those who have attended/are attending AFT.

How did/do you feel?
How many instructors are there?
And are there int'l students?

In Italy there are some good flight trainings but I prefer to leave my country because I want to improve my level of English, which is intermediate - I hope to pick it up easily as I am in England...

Any comments, suggestions... everything is accepted :ok: !

Thanks in advace!
A.

[aswind]

www.flyingwork.it

www.aeroclubmilano.it/scuola/

www.aeroclubvarese.it/sito_new/ la_scuola/corsi_dett.asp?ID=7

for example (sorry in Italian)

Cheers, A.

ps. when i say \'good FTO\' i\'m not saying that we have an OAT or FTE in Italy...

:D

[papazulu]

U forgot this...

http://www.professionevolare.it/

Expensive but well organized and A/Cs always in tip top shape. Shame they run courses in italian language only.

jstflying:

Just curious, what are those good italian FTO's you mentioned in your post????

There are trashy FTOs in UK as well as good ones in Italy. Other story if you mean GA in general or CAA attitude...

PZ

:ok:

PS aswind: whenever you decide to join AFT could U let me know if they need FI(R) in the near future? PM if U prefer

[scruggs]

Hi all,

After much thought, I have finally set out my plans. I am some what reluctantly going down the modular route since I simply can't afford integrated (banks have turned me down for loans). Whilst working on my physics doctorate at Aston University, I am going to start my PPL training early next year. Since I work and live near Birmingham, I'd like to attend a fairly local flight school. Having had a good look round, I believe the Coventry airport based Atlantic Flight Training seems to be the best. Is this a good assessment?

Since it is (and always has been) my aim to be an airline pilot, I'm trying to choose a school with a good reputation with the airlines. Does anyone know how Atlantic Flight Training holds up with the airlines? Do the airlines actually care about who you trained with?

Sorry if Atlantic Flight Training has been discussed in early posts, if anyone can direct me to posts I'd appreciate it. I have done a search, but not much came up.

Thanks in advance to those who reply.

All the best,

Steve.

[tom24]

Unless you go integrated with FTE/Oxford/Cabair then the airlines will not give a hoot.

If you're modular i don't think it really matters where you go as at the end of it all you're on your own out there.

Good luck with it all anyway. I've just finished IR. Its been tough. VERY tough, but very enjoyable also and when the examiner said its a pass after the NDB, it gives you a lot of satisfaction - and a big hangover the next day!

[Canada Goose]

easyPilot,

I'm not sure of your age, but AFT are affiliated with Atlantic Airlines and they do take cadets on with a view to working their fleet. Worth looking into perhaps !

CG

[FougaMagister]

The fact that they are also so busy is a good measure of the quality of the FTO.

They are serious but relaxed and will not settle for anything less than perfection. They do modular "back to back" which might be the easiest alternative to integrated. Their quotes are not always the cheapest, but value for money-wise I found them unbeatable; I also got first time passes at both CPL and IR (in the days of the Cessna 310).

Now they use Diamond Twinstars with FADEC-equipped Diesel engines, glass cockpit etc. and they have DiamondStars on order for the first bit of the CPL, so you'll end up doing your training on EFIS aicraft even before you reach MCC - for which they have a CRJ sim on order to replace/supplement the current King Air sim.

You'll also fly from Coventry, a proper commercial airport, with ATC, ATIS, controlled airspace, instrument procedures on site etc.

All in all, I would gladly recommend Atlantic (even though I don't get anything out of it); they were damn good when I trained and they have become even better since!

Cheers :cool:

[Captain_Scooby]

A PPL is required for the cadet scheme, although the connections between the two are certainly established.

[scruggs]

Thanks for the replies guys. FougaMagister, a very informative post there mate - cheers for that. Based upon that (since you have actually studied there and given a glowing review), I will definitely be using Atlantic Flight Training.

Thanks again guys.

Steve.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all.

[CanAV8R]

Did my conversion from a foreign licence there a couple of years back. I would go back and do it again. AFT is expanding so there are growing pains so to speak, but over all a top notch organization.

Pete, Matt and the rest of the gang are a good bunch to deal with. You are not just a number which is a big thing to me and the level of training is high. A great place to train.

Good luck.

[Megaton]

I did my IR there a couple of years ago and I felt I was fairly treated at all times. Pricing policy is v decent and you won't get shafted if things go wrong and it's not your fault.

[OneMileHigh]

The best recommendation is from those that have, and those that do; so I will be doing the theory course with AFT, and the flight training.

So, as I have been there (so to speak), and I am willing to go there again to train, that must speak volumes for my confidence in them.

I will not knock other schools, but I can also recommend Cranfield Flight Training. David Coulson is one in a million!!

[ultimatepro63]

atlantic flight training school do they do integrated route i have their
prospectus and they say tthey train from ppl-frozen atpl

[scroggs]

Why don't you ask the school itself? I'm sure you have their contact details if you have the prospectus.

Scroggs

[markflyer6580]

Its a full time modular course,they are not approved for integrated.
I think only Cabair/Oxford/Eft? are at the moment in the U.K.

Fair bit cheaper though and you get done in the same amount of time,probably make some good contacts there as well,plenty of operators based there.
You do full time ground school,which in my opinion is the most important bit,since I'm struggling to get on with it distance learning.
The flying training will be no different to an integrated course apart from the course structure.
Same quals for less cash!:ok:

[TolTol]

Anybody got an opinion on this school?

[AppleMacster]

A quick flick to the next page of this forum, or even a non-intensive search will reveal http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=203119 :rolleyes:

[BillieBob]

Here's a radical idea - why not answer the question?

"atlantic flight training school do they do integrated route"

No

[Captain_Scooby]

I think you'll find 'answering the question' was what markflyer did in post 3.

[oleocookie]

Hi there

Sounds like a great place from what's been said. Is there any accommodation on site at it, if so what sort of money are we talking? (when ya don't have a car it's a hell of a lot easier/cheaper living on site)

cheers folks :ok:

[wbryce]

Just out of curiousity....should one not learn the IR on traditional instruments then progress to EFIS?

If you do your IR training in an EFIS aircraft then land a MEP / SEP air taxi work on the old traditional instruments, would one be confident / competant?

I want to learn like the next person next to me on traditional instruments then progress to the...easier system of EFIS! ;)

[SFI145]

In fact with the basic fATPL/IR you can't go straight into IFR air taxi work because JAR-OPS requires a minimum of 700 hours for this.

[wbryce]

Ah yes, I forgot that requirement...

So lets say you do your training on EFIS, complete on around 230hrs...then your flying SEPs on VFR instruction for 1 year till you get that magic 700hrs, pass IR renewal then start IFR taxi work on an traditionally kitted instrument aircraft! ;)

You will be even more out of tune on EFIS / IR flying and probably slightly worse on the ole clock n dials....this is a worry I have over IR training on EFIS and hoping to see someones elses views? or hear about a past experience from anyone who's done this route!

[tom24]

I did the IR on a DA42.

All you need to worry about at your stage is passing the IR and believe me the DA42 will help you do this.

If you have week legs forget it as it is a bitch to fly on one engine as the rudder input required is substantial! Having said that the pro's outweigh the cons:

Pros

-Self identifying nav aids
-Self setting transponder alt
-massive warnings that tell you things like pitot off
-digital baro setting meaning you can't really set it wrong
-one lever instead of three

cons

-difficulty flying on one engine
-middle stick (which i just didn't like)
-fiddly rudder pedals

Good luck anyway.

[Robmark]

<<<<Unless you go integrated with FTE/Oxford/Cabair then the airlines will not give a hoot.

If you're modular i don't think it really matters where you go as at the end of it all you're on your own out there.>>>>

I believe modular refers to simply taking on course for one license at a time and the integrated version means planning on becoming a professional piloit right form the outset with training to match.

Do I have that right?

Rob Mark

[A320rider]

flying on a DA 42 will not give you the privilege to receive a cpl for standard planes(no EFIS), maybe I am wrong. any comments?

[Traffic_Traffic]

Flying your CPL skills test on the DA42 will not compromise your CPL, ie you will not be restricted to only EFIS aircraft.

If you do your MEP class rating on the DA42 then you will be restricted to single power lever aircraft until you differences training as you would for any new twin you fly.

ie you get offered an air taxi job on a Cessna 421 , you do differences training to cover, Turbo charging, pressurisation and 6 lever operation.

:)

[JB LFPN FLYER]

Hello everyone I'd like to know if one of you know something or have feedbacks about this FTO :rolleyes: Thanks a lot

[Gugnunc]

My experience is that the theoretical courses are very thorough and exceed the JAA requirements. Study with AFT and you will have a competent level of knowledge that will be more than is required just to get you through the exams.

One of their Ground Instructors told me that they want to make the candidates understand well enough to be good CPL/ATPL's in the real world, and they are not just an exam passing pipeline. No disrespect to any other organisations was implied, just a quiet confidence in what AFT do.

(oh but there are always busy and your assessments don't always come back promptly!)

[TJF97]

My experience is that the theoretical courses are very thorough and exceed the JAA requirements. Study with AFT and you will have a competent level of knowledge that will be more than is required just to get you through the exams.
One of their Ground Instructors told me that they want to make the candidates understand well enough to be good CPL/ATPL's in the real world, and they are not just an exam passing pipeline. No disrespect to any other organisations was implied, just a quiet confidence in what AFT do.
(oh but there are always busy and your assessments don't always come back promptly!)

Did you do the full time course at AFT or the distance learning?

TJF97

[Gugnunc]

CPL - not ATPL (although it might as well have been for the level of detail) distance learning.

PM me if you want to know specifics.

[sps1013]

I completed my CPL flying last year with AFT and I only have high praises for them. A very professional outfit who will work hard for you and get you to the level required and beyond.

I competed my CPL in 23 calendar days with only 2 days lost due tech problems.

A good choice and I will be going back to do my IR.

[dogstar2]

Does anyone know of the reputation of this school? Considering a course there but I need to ensure good serviceability and reliable flight programming to ensure that I get my training done in a clearly defined period.

Thanks

[EGBKFLYER]

Never heard of them. Do you mean Atlantic Flight Training?

[dogstar2]

Yes thats them. Thanks

[EGBKFLYER]

Try SEARCHING! It's at the top of your screen.

If you type in Atlantic Flight Training, you will find the following thread:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=212872

That should get you started...:ok:

[TenAndie]

I know people there, they are very good. Would seriously reccomend them

:ok:

[speedrestriction]

Be careful: if it involves aviation training in the U.K. there is no such thing as a clearly defined period due to a little understood phenomenon known as.............WEATHER.....

[Young And Hopeful]

Hi everyone,

I'm looking at starting ATPL ground schooling full tim modular courses. Anyone got anything on Air Atlantic at Coventry or any other schools? And what the flying side of Atlanitcs training like? :hmm:

Cheers

Todd

[FougaMagister]

It's called Atlantic Flight Training http://www.flyaft.com

I can vouch for the quality of AFT's flight training; CPL now done on DiamondStar DA40 TDi, ME/IR done on DA42 TwinStar, both equipped with EFIS, FADEC, autopilot, Diesel engines, etc. Very nice fleet. Also a DA42 TwinStar FNPT II for IR. Good airport for CPL & IR with a choice of instrument procedures on site (IR skill test done out of Cranfield). Great instructors, good setup and facilities, good value for money, v. good pass rates. They will soon have a CRJ sim for the MCC.

Can't really say anything about the ATPL groundschool; did mine elsewhere.

I recommend you pay them a visit; that's the best way to make up your mind.

Cheers :cool:

[Cutoff]

I paid em a visit when I was looking to start out on the CPL / IR and they were a bunch of arrogant a*ses, I turned around and went elsewhere and glad I did.

For groundschool BGS is the only choice if you are modular!!

[bigbadjetdriver]

I would also recommend you AVOID AFT, I went to see them while ago and they were as Cutoff said a bunch of arrogant....... But everyone has their own good/bad experiences!

Bristol GS is fantastic on GS, as for the flying part go and pay Wolverhampton Airport Flight Centre a visit, they too have a DA42 Twin Star, fantastic place to learn brilliant instructors and atmosphere.

If you give them a call I believe Paul is the guy to speak too.
www.hgfc.co.uk (http://www.hgfc.co.uk)

[mcgoo]

I had the same experience with AFT, I called them on the phone to ask about visiting for a tour around and doing my CPL/IR with them and was given the brush off! obviously they don't wan't my £20,000.

[stasis]

Well just to put forward anoher view, I arranged to visit AFT last week for a quick look kround and a chat about doing my ATPLs there, and afterwards my CPL/MEIR.

They were incredibly helpful and friendly - the chief ground school instructor gave me about 45 mins of his time even though I wasn't booked to see him specifically and I got a full tour of the place. I was so impressed that I bought the full set of ATPL books (they write their own) then and there, which I wasn't planning to do.

[Young And Hopeful]

Ahh so a fair few differences in opinion i see. thanks all for the advice. I will go and see for myself as you suggest. They seemed helpful on the phone so we'll see when I get there! Any other suggestions on how and where to obtain my atpl?

cheers

[Cutoff]

Horses for courses isn't it. Alot of my decisions came down to where could I do my CPL / IR and remain in fulltime work. I worked at Milton Keynes at the time so that naturally pointed me to Cranfield. I was a modular student so Cabair was not a good fit so I ended up doing mine at Bonus aviation and I found them very good, I would say that they are ideal for the modular student. But if you live miles away and coventry is closer then Atlantic will suit you better, both these schools get good pass rates, but I suspect (know) a good pass is linked as always to the effort you yourself put in. I would not go anywhere else than BGS for the groundschool though, but again whatever suits your needs.

[FougaMagister]

One thing to know as well is that AFT spread the 14 ATPL exams over 3 CAA exam sessions, instead of 2 as is usually done by most other GTOs. I think it's 5, 5, then 4 subjects (in 6 months). Obviously, that takes an extra sitting, but that seems to work for them.

BGS's groundschool always comes highly recommended, as does Oxford (if only for the feedback question bank :ok:)

As for CPL/IR, depending where you live, there are usually good FTOs nearby (Exeter, Bournemouth, Cranfield, Bristol, Coventry, Leeds, Oxford...) I know I saved a great deal of (accommodation) money by training at an FTO within commuting distance.

Cheers :cool:

[Turkish777]

I recently left Stapleford FC to finish off my IR training at AFT and Im glad I did!

Very thorough teaching, I would strongly recommend.

[Young And Hopeful]

I just visited AFT and they were very helpful, I even got to have a go on thier flight sim! very impressed!, thanks for the advice guys

[fibbi]

anyone here that will start there at that time?



fibbi

[Mondeoman]

Hi Young and hopeful,
I've got 3 weeks to go at Atlantic full time ground school and then done!!
No school is perfect, but personally I've found them very experienced at putting people through the exams, some excellent ground school instructors. The average pass rate for my intake has been around the 90-95% mark, I will be returning for my CPL and IR. It's a smaller school which is going to get MUCH bigger very soon, although the advantage of smaller, is that any problems, you can knock on the door of the owner (Matt) and speak to him anytime. The bigger schools can't offer that sort of one to one experience. This is just my personal experience, but I think that most of the current students would agree. Good luck with your training.

[CVT Pilot]

Hi,

I agree with Mondeoman, have also done my groundschool with AFT and am planning to do my CPL/MEP/IR with them too. The groundschool instructors are excellent and very approachable with a variety of different backgrounds, each having at least one specialist subject due to much experience in that area. The terms are split into three, taking exams in sets of 5, 5, then 4. It is much less intensive than some schools and gives you more time to actually learn the course than just pass the exams.

From the flying side, the fleet of aircraft is generally well maintained, with brand new DA40's and DA42 Twin-Stars being delivered regularly. The instructors are also well experienced here, with varied and respectable backgrounds. There are also two Frasca FNPTII DA42 simulators and plans for a CRJ simulator arriving this summer (unsure of exact dates) with a JOT course to follow.

AFT also have teamed up with Jeppesen to write their own training manuals, which are a lot more understandable and friendly for the student and use their considerable experience in the airline industry (Atlantic Airlines and Air Atlantique) in writing the books. They are also in the middle of a large operation to move to bigger purpose-built premises on Coventry Airport.

I have always been impressed with AFT since I first visited when I was thinking about the ATPL, and would happily reccommend them to anyone. Personally, I was less than impressed with Oxford when I visited as I found them rude and lacking in interest for the individual student. AFT as a result of being that bit smaller have the advantage of being more friendly and understanding for the individual and are better equipped to tailor a course to your timescale and needs.

Although trying to remain unbiased, I find it difficult as I have never been less than impressed with AFT and am honest enough to admit I am a difficult person to please!

Would definately reccommend to anyone thinking about the ATPL, CPL or even PPL.

CVT Pilot.

[Young And Hopeful]

thanks for that, i was beginning to think it all bad news. I rang oxford and they seemed less that helpful really. First impressions count and it wasnt a good one. Bristol were very nice on the phone but really I'm looking for a full time course which I'm finding harder to track down. Oh and at AFT a ppl instructor (Neil Highland) was very helpful and genuine and I had a go in thier new Diamond flight sim too! excellent.
cheers again

Todd

[Mozz]

I have searched this forum for Atlantic Flight Training(http://www.flyaft.com/), but can not find any thread. I am thinking about to do the Zero to ATPL training there, but I would like some feedback from anyone who have attended or just someone who has something to say about it, or if there is any other school to prefer :)

[FougaMagister]

I have searched this forum for Atlantic Flight Training(http://www.flyaft.com/), but can not find any thread.
You haven't looked hard enough. There have been several threads regarding AFT recently.

Cheers :cool:

[SFI145]

You haven't looked hard enough. There have been several threads regarding AFT recently.
Cheers :cool:
I agree with you that there have indeed been several threads on AFT recently. However out of curiosity I also did a search and returned little of relevance. Why is this?

[Megaton]

Did my ME/IR there a couple of years ago (before twinstar arrived). I thought the setup was good with a fair system of charging. Also, Coventry was a good central location for trg with decent facilities. Did me no harm - now flying A320 for BA.

[Mozz]

Thanks for the info :)
It must by my poor searching skills, since I can´t find anything about AFT :confused:

[BlueRobin]

Search won't work if the search term has too few characters, e.g. "AFT" will return nothing. In which case, stick into google AFT site: pprune.org

My circumstances have changed this week so I may be doing a full-time ATPL ground course there.

[iflyhighinthesky]

Just got all 14 passes through this week through AFT!:ok:
Highly recommend them :}
ifly

[BlueRobin]

hi ifly, were a full-time student?

[iflyhighinthesky]

yep, certainly was :ugh: :ok:
ifly

[FlyEGNT]

Anyone know what Atlantic Flight Training are like for their Full Time Ground School? I'm thinking of them as an option and I know people in the area I could stay with.

[SU27]

Did my distance learning with them. Excellent tutors. I would recommend them.

[BlueRobin]

They're okay and get above average pass rates. Am currenlt yposting from an AFT classroom. The school has a house that can offer accommodationhowever Coventry and surrounding area has a good supply of housing. gumtree.com lists a lot of house shares/rentals.

[Irish83]

Hello all

I need advice from anyone who know AFT.

I am a PPL holder with 180 hours and looking to continue all the way to fATPL.

Atlantic seems a good place to go for me (according to previous reviews and website)
Although an ex student told me recently they were overcrowded when he went there which was before they had the twinstar.

Anyone can update this information, I think the school is good, but is it too popular:confused:

[MediQ]

There won't be too many people on these forums, although do a search anyway, you might find a thread. Have a look at www.flyinginireland.com/forum (http://www.flyinginireland.com/forum) I have heard of a few people training there and they are all very happy. The instructors are meant to be great guys. They are probably very busy because they train PPLs aswell but I don't think you would have any problems with a/c availability for Multi/IR. Have a look on the flying in ireland forums.

[Irish83]

i dont mean atlantic flight centre in ireland, I'm asking about coventry

[Kanu]

I went to AFT, haven't got a bad word to say about them really. Took me just over 13 months from PPL to cpl/ir and the instruction couldn't have been better.

[MediQ]

Haha, my mistake! :ugh::ok:

[BlueRobin]

There's a guy here at the moment from Cork doing the theory. Thoroughly nice bunch of chaps and esses, theory is done informal (no uniforms) and friendly (good banter). If you do the full-time theory first at AFT, you can then whilst you are there suss out if the flying side is any good. They are about to hire more instructors so hopefully demand can be met.

[wiseman942]

Does anybody have any info or completed trg at AFT. Im thinking of moving my integrated trg course to them due to being un happy with my current FTO. Cheers.

[BlueRobin]

By AFT, which organisation do you mean? There are at least two in England and another I can recall in Eire.

[wiseman942]

its atlantic flight trg in coventry

[TheOne83]

allright, but witch part is the one that makes you unhappy?? Theory teaching or flying instruction, lack of flying?? :confused: If flying is the reason you could consider many other schools too, depending in how far you would like to be from home.

Cheers

[BlueRobin]

AFT are modular only. Not sure how that affects your progession from an integrated stream.

ATPL theory side is good.
Good availability on the Diamonds, less so presently the AVGAS stuff due to Fugly cadet demand aiui.
Diamond FNPT2 sim also rather good.

[martyn_1985]

Has anyone trained or heard about coventry(Altantic flight training), if so can you message me with some details. Cheers

[BlueRobin]

Errr yes

Where are you at with your training and what did you want to know?

[martyn_1985]

Well im about to finish my PPL but would like to do the rest of my training as an intergrated course there. Could you tell me what it is like there? Is all the training done in England?

[BlueRobin]

AFT are modular throughout, but you can consecutively do the courses back-to-back.

AFT are under new ownership and have just moved into a new building, increasing thier facilty size by quite a lot. Very much on the up at the moment with a modern fleet of Diamonds.

Phone or email Lori (dets on flyaft.com). Arrange to see the CGI if you can as the first thing you will need to do is the ATPL theory.

[George Foreman]

A mate of mine is a Commercial instructor there and, having some time to spare, I visited a couple of weeks ago. I observed some sim training and was seriously impressed by the new kit, in particular the new DA42 simulator which is state of the art and seemed totally robust, in comparison with the flaky old FNPT2s and all the associated time-consuming resets/reboots I had to endure during my own integrated training.
As a ppl instructor myself, flying A320s for a living I've been giving the whole G1000 glass cockpit thing a bit of thought .. well I'm half way through the groundschool, anyway :-) .. and I think it is a very positive development in commercial training.

Understanding the very comprehensive systems (the manuals are almost the size of Airbus' FCOM4) and the software's functionality in some detail - including how to use the "other pilot" (automatics) sensibly and efficiently to manage workload are key skills that can be more readily developed. These skills are not dissimilar to those developed during MCC/jet orientation and key components of a type rating course on a larger multi-crew EFIS type. It gets you into thinking how best to get the aircraft to do what you want it to do, and checking very carefully that the result is as expected .. by looking for annunciators, mode selections, colours denoting armed and active modes, and those sorts of things.

Sure all these systems are an unnecessary distraction in teaching basic multi-engine handling, but flown manually it is just like any other aircraft and for the CPL and in particular the instrument training the new-format instrumentation must ease the transition to MCC and turboprop/jet orientation just by getting the student to think about and practice operating an aircraft in this way.

Clearly the significant capital investment made in efficient new aircraft and facilities tells you something about their commitment to professional commerical training, as well as keeping down operating costs.
I'll probably pitch up there to renew my single pilot ratings next time around, not least because the pricing seems sensible and also to complete differences training and get checked out on the G1000 flight deck while I am at it.

Do the whole lot in one place and there is really very little difference between modular and integrated routes, other than the fact that your learning curve during hour building *might* not have been as steep as it could have been !

As ever just my thoughts. All good stuff ..

[BlueRobin]

George,

Your post cuts through a lot of garb said here about the Diamonds and EFIS issue, squishing a few doubting thoughts I have had in my mind about AFT. Thanks for that :)

The DA42 FNPT2 sims are indeed very good with the latest PC server hardware and wrap-around video screens.

Who's your chum?

[Adversethought]

George
New to this forum and have been recently researching stuff on the DA 40 and 42's on behalf of a friend in UK looking for an fto to obtain JAA ATPL. Coventry appears to have a good record ground school wise but I'm a little sceptical regarding their use of the Diamond aircraft. Your post raises some good issues regarding the use of the Diamond's but having spent several years in the flight training world several years ago (as instructor) the Diamond seems to be more of a benefit to the school than to the career pilot. (Attractive, modern aircraft pull the students in and coupled with what I would assume to be cheaper running costs look great also on the books of the school)I agree with you that the use of the DA a/c will certainly be of good value when it comes to MCC, turbine type training etc but would question the value of a DA to a low hour, fresh out of ground school pilot who is probably going to have get an instructor rating to get a few hours under his/her belt. Furthermore myself and all of my chums plugging the airways today didn't do too badly learning our skills on a/c designed in the 1950's! At present I would have more confidence in a pilot whose skills in instrument flying and handling twins were harnessed in Pipers, Cessna's and Beech's etc than in a Diamond. The EFIS stuff should be done after the basics have been developed on an aircraft where the work load is significantly higher for the student than on say a Diamond. However having been away from the UK for quite some time and admittedly not paying a huge amount of attention to the UK job market I may be underestimating the value of DA's. If a significant proportion of low hour pilots are being picked up by those carriers with the new generation aircraft then I suppose I would advise my friend to take a drive to Coventry.

[George Foreman]

Sure the aircraft will have lower operating costs, but they aren't cheap and they need to be financed. Flight training isn't the most lucrative business so I guess these things will need to be worked hard to make them pay! Every business aims to at least break even and pay back it's cost of capital, so if these things do run at a lower cost then that's good for everyone, students included.

Yes at some stage people need to learn about the trusty magneto, mixture controls, RPM levers etc if they are going to teach on or fly those aircraft of course. Plenty more still need to understand the difference between a carburettor and fuel injection as found on most new cessnas etc. these days.

However, there will come a time when maybe people don't need to, as they don't ever fly with the old technology/systems. I'm not sure what the current CAA view is, but I suppose flying the legacy stuff will require some sort of differences training as for VP props/retractable gear/tailwheel/pressurisation etc. I agree any GA/private/air taxi pilots needs to be taught all this and retain currency but many (in Europe) who go directly from flight training to airlines don't bother to maintain their more advanced single pilot GA ratings and so it will never really be an issue!

Likewise I guess that whilst 1950s vintage trainers were good for starting out on clockwork commercial aircraft, I guess in a similar manner the Garmin gear may be more suited to anything after, say, the 737-200 ?
I don't really think it is a big issue any of this, your mate just needs good quality commercial instruction. I posted because my visit to Coventry got me thinking ... after having heard a lot of negatives from various camps about these modern diesels being too easy with their single power lever (like a jet ??) .. sure that may be a consideration, but my post was specifically about the Glass instrumentation, by Garmin 1000 and Avidyne, and my own personal view is that these systems are a big step forward for GA. Used correctly they contribute to greater situational awareness and flight safety, but they are more complex and require the student to invest time and resources to master them. This, together with increased reliance on GPS, is the future, or at least the way forward and so I've concluded that today's students might as well master all this from the outset.

It is personal choice .. other factors such as availability of aircraft (any aircraft!) and continuity of training with good commercial instructors at the right price and in the right place (ie the airport's charges and suitability for efficient training) is more of a consideration I'm sure.

So far as the airlines are concerned, I doubt many of them have any coherent views on the matter, really. As you say the current system has produced generations of competent pilots and I'm sure they aren't going to show any bias over whether you trained on a digital or a gyro-horizon (however tricky some of the latter could be), so long as you can demonstrate that you know how they work! The same goes for instructors I'm sure.

However this new multi-crew licence *is* a significant change, but that is another topic entirely...

Going to sign off on all this now .. best wishes to all in training or making the tricky decision as to where to do it !

[martyn_1985]

Hi, Im just looking foir some information on Atlantic Flight School in Coventry. Do they do a modula course there? Is it known as a good school?

[BlueRobin]

Lazy :p

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=231050

[early_bird]

This info. has been passed on to me by a collegue who's been researching on my behalf.
Does anyone have anymore info on this?
Thanks, E.B

[Captain N]

AFT has a sister school in Jordan
you can see info on the website
not sure if you can go back and forth between the two though!

[early_bird]

Thanks Cap'in :) I guess I'll have to get in touch to see which part of the course (flying experience) is done in Jordon, I can't see anyone wanting to travel to Jordon and back for every bit of hour building.
Cheers, EB

[Cirrus_Clouds]

Hi,

Has anyone done their ATPL training at Atlantic Flight Training Ltd?

What did you think of the company and training quality?


I understand they have just moved into a brand new building. One thing I am personally looking for whilst looking around for the right college is a FTO that has top notch training facilities, a modern fleet (DA42) and an excellent reputation, does Atlantic fit this?

I will also be considering them for Groundschool material, alongside Bristol or Oxford but I doubt I will do hour building there - IR and CPL, quite possibly.

I'm also trying to find out if many of their students are successful in finding work with the airlines?


Thanks!

[BlueRobin]

They have had some organisational issues recently, I feel to do with trying to expand the business too fast. Remember to ask how often they run the course slots and how many students per instructor (and if that is a dedicated to student, or average figure).

[PlaneHomerS]

Search FTW!

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=107134

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=91208

by the way when you post, pprune does this great job of coupling similar threads in a table below your post :ok:

[flyasthesky]

Hello, I've only just come accross AFT in Coventry and I am especially interested on their 0 to atpl course. I have had a quick read through this thread and overall people seem to be quite happy with the organisation. I would be very interested in talking to some past and present students on the 0 to atpl course, questions such as are the facilities and aircraft mantained well, Is the accomadation just for the atpl part of the course or do you have to source it for yourself? Also does many flying sorties get delayed or stopped due to weather etc. Thanks for your time:)

[BlueRobin]

Did your research include this thread?
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=281631

[flyasthesky]

Hello Bluerobin . No my research did not include that thread as a matter of fact it described a totally different picture than the previous thread. Thanks for the reply.:ok: