Secret Agent Help Wanted [Archive]

gusopenshaw

15th Jun 2006, 13:42

In the novel I'm currently writing, a onetime CIA officer escapes from his cell at a government-run, sort-of secret agent prison/hospital disguised as a hunting and fishing club in the Blue Ridge mountains of Virginia. Our man has two things going for him: 1. He is an experienced helicopter pilot. 2. One of the grass tennis courts, some 500 feet from the clubhouse where he was held, is used as a helipad, and on it is a Bell 206/L3 the spooks use for medevac.

Once he escapes, a half-dozen guards with rifles will begin searching the club grounds for him. Once they hear the rotors, they will be able to reach the tennis court in about 20 seconds. My questions to you is: In this scenario, could you plausibly get the ship started and get away, and, if so, how might you do it? Also, what might go wrong?

Thanks.

pohm1

15th Jun 2006, 13:59

Given the situation you describe, and assuming he would not be carrying out the normal pre and post start checks, my best estimate from pressing the starter to getting into the air would be 60secs.

If your guards are only 20secs away with rifles I think you can answer your own question with regard to what could go wrong!

SASless

15th Jun 2006, 15:00

Now if it were an R-44....being piston engine and all....hit the tit...roll the throttle...and gone like a rocket in 30 seconds or less.

Fun Police

15th Jun 2006, 15:39

you could get away pretty quickly in an astar as well but not likely as little as 20 sec. maybe 30-35. (that's ignoring the pre start 30 second fuel system pressurization).

Whirlygig

15th Jun 2006, 15:43

Perhaps the tooled-up guards should be at the far end of the grounds or maybe searching an old boiler house (better as they might not hear initial start up) so that they are at least a minute away.

Cheers

Whirls

paco

15th Jun 2006, 15:52

Are the blades tied down?

If you could contrive to have the running down from a previous trip, that would help, where the pilot has shut down but left the machine to help with the plasma bottle or something. Otherwise, it takes about 12-15 seconds to flick the switches and get light off in a 206. If it was an L, he would also have to remember to turn the fuel valve on.

A 500 might be better, since the blades won't be tied down and are low intertia, but that might not be used for medevac. Didn't James Bond start one in the back of a transport plane? :) It was in colour, so it must be true.

Dennis Kenyon did a quick start with an Enstrom on a ship in his novel. Took a couple of rounds while it spun up if memory serves.

Sounds like you need a reason for them not to suspect that he is getting away in the helo.

Phil

Droopy

15th Jun 2006, 16:19

"Once they hear the rotors"......I suppose it all depends on exactly what stage that means. If you mean "as they hear the engine light up" then no chance.

vaqueroaero

15th Jun 2006, 16:53

Actually Bond used a 600 Notar. As I remember it they pushed it out the back and started it as it was falling earthwards. You're right of course that it must be true because it was in colour.

SASless

15th Jun 2006, 17:05

Of course my dear Whirls is thinking about "tooled up" guards....tall leather boots...Sam Brown belt...big Nightsticks....Freudian slip there Mi Lady?

HELOFAN

15th Jun 2006, 18:04

No ... bad guys dont have medivac , they only have gun ships , so it is a gun ship and whilst its cranking up , he is on the gun shooting the **** outta them then ...does some fancy seat hopping & takes off.....with fuel.......and a shiny tooth smile LOL.

Whirlygig

15th Jun 2006, 18:22

Sassy dahling! No Freudian slip at all :E I know of what I write! :p

Besides, it wasn't me who mentioned tie-downs :eek:

Cheers

Whirls

Droopy

15th Jun 2006, 19:09

"Can always go wrong"...shurely "will go wrong in the most entertaining way"

The Rotordog

15th Jun 2006, 19:25

Okay, do the bad guys know he's a helicopter pilot? Do they know he's heading for the medevac ship or have they scattered?

I can start any 206L in under 30 seconds button-push to button-release. Quicker if my life is depending on it, say 20 or 25 if I don't care if it overtemps (and I wouldn't, believe me). Just hope I remember the dang ol' fuel valve. Dang ol' LongRanger pilots like to shut them off so they don't run the dang ol' battery down.

Once I get 40% N1 or so, the throttle goes to full and the collective goes half-way up. Damn the torque/TOT! Total time from button-push to skids getting air underneath, 30 seconds, max.

If they don't hear me until the engine actually lights off and it takes them 20 seconds to get to the helipad, I've got a chance. Slim chance, yeah, but a chance. I'm going to take some rounds, I know, but like I said, it's my life we're talking about here. I'm not on my freakin' Commercial checkride.

Maybe I make it, maybe I don't. But by God, I'll take that chance.

B Sousa

15th Jun 2006, 19:37

Better put some obstacles in the way of the guards. From above 60 seconds is bare bare min..........20 seconds the guy is toast.......... Give him five minutes and let him rescue the buxom girl, who goes ga ga over helicopter Pilots......
In fact with only 60 seconds hes probably going to be downed by small arms fire anyway........
Rotordog is off a bit on the start thing Im sure, but if Tq and Temp are not an issue, times could change.

SASless

15th Jun 2006, 21:14

Fellas,

Don't let Dog fool you....that was his normal way of doing business in the GOM...no wasting time for him on silly procedures...time is money! We know who you are Dog the Helicopter Pilot.;)

Any idea why that pesky Fuel Valve is such an issue to him?

MD900 Explorer

15th Jun 2006, 23:19

gusopenshaw

Would it not sound better if he found a hand glider and dodged the bullets? :D

Saves having to do a proper startup eh.. :E

MD ;)

Whirls

Now about that uniform thing :E

7balja01

16th Jun 2006, 01:23

what rpm does a 206 need to lift off? 7600? is it the same for all helis?

ball.

Dis-Mystery of Lift

16th Jun 2006, 03:29

Due to the time problem the Hero would have to create a diversion.....maybe said buxom lady who was only issued the Sam Brown Belt and boots slowing down the tooled up gaurds(Which no doubt they would be by then) and a set of tie downs in the boiler room.Plenty of time then to put on that pesky fuel valve,light the fire and get out of Dodge.Ahhh slow Friday afternoons......:ok: :ok:

22clipper

16th Jun 2006, 03:48

You know I think if I ever hit the big time in the future I'd go for one of those coaxial rotored things Sikorsky are workin' on, you know with the pusher at the back.

My female corporate pilot in her tight fitting chauffer's uniform with her long blonde hair tucked up under the little peaked cap could probably get it airborne in no time.

Hang on......I'd want to be flying it! Oh God don't you just hate a flawed fanatsy?

Whirls & SASless, behave yourselves there are young impressionable pilots readin' this forum you know.

cpt

16th Jun 2006, 07:02

I vaguely remember how Roger Moore, in this famous (old !) TV serie, when running away from a bunch of armed bad ones, came to this starting Alouette 2, shouting to the pilot and pushing him away ; "quick, quick.... you are a daddy....it's a son, you wife just gave birth...get away...quick" !!!!

Teefor Gage

16th Jun 2006, 07:04

As long as it doesn't end up like the pure fantasy start up in "Oil Heist".
Helicopter shut down on offshore installation which is being blown up. As the installation lists heavily to one side, the intrepid pilot climbs into his machine ( an S58T if I remember) cranks it up and lifts off in the nick of time as the deck angle increases dramatically.......................
In another scenario - out intrepid pilot is performing a winching operation where he "puts the machine into auto hover and then goes down the back to operate the winch himself in order to get the last man down....."

DBChopper

16th Jun 2006, 16:23

22 clipper:

My female corporate pilot in her tight fitting chauffer's uniform with her long blonde hair tucked up under the little peaked cap could probably get it airborne in no time.

It's a small point, but one I fear I must correct := . The hair should be in the form of a ponytail poking out of the back of the little peaked cap.

Or she could be brunette...

:E

SASless

16th Jun 2006, 17:29

Young impressionable pilots....now you will have fair Whirls interest!

22clipper

17th Jun 2006, 06:45

Okay, so Whirls like 'em youthful & maleable eh? Never had a female instructor (in any sense of the word), in fact when I learned to fly there were no female pilots as I recall.

Pandalet

17th Jun 2006, 08:18

...in fact when I learned to fly there were no female pilots as I recall.

We're working on it, watch this space :ok:

Whirlygig

17th Jun 2006, 08:30

Okay, so Whirls like 'em youthful & maleable eh?
...hhmmm, not sure what you mean 22 clipper?! Youthful? Ain't fussy as long as they have their own hair and teeth! Maleable? Male, yes! Definitely like my blokes to be male - just a quirk of mine :p Or do you mean I want to be able to fold them up into a small cube or mould them into interesting shapes and pop them in the post box?

Seriously though 'tis true! When my father wanted me to join the RAF in 1983, there were no women pilots and, I'm sure someone will correct me, the first female helicopter pilot (RAF) wasn't until the early 90s.

Cheers

Whirls

finalchecksplease

17th Jun 2006, 08:50

Whirlygig,
Did not realise one could join the RAF at 14 …… :p ;)

22clipper

17th Jun 2006, 11:13

That should have been malleable whirls, anyone know how to invoke a spell checker in thread posting?

Landed at Wagga to get fuel the other day to hear the sweet sound of a lady army pilot in her Kiowa. Made a nice change from the gruff blokey tones that come out of most military machines.

Whirlygig

17th Jun 2006, 11:17

22clipper, the spell checker (which is the ABC tick icon in the top right hand corner of the reply box) requires a download of iespell from www.iespell.com (http://www.iespell.com).

I DID know what you meant but I just thought I'd have a little play on words; just my sense of humour!

...and, as for you, finalchecksplease, you flatterer you!! However, you were only four years out so I'm not THAT flattered!!

Cheers

Whirls

gusopenshaw

19th Jun 2006, 20:52

Sorry for these dumb questions, but I feel like it is the first day of school still, taught in a foreign language:

When you first press the starter button, what do you hear?

If anything, how does the sound change as you check N1, TOT, etc.?

At what point in the take-off sequence does the ship start to make noise that would be heard by guards 100 yards away?

thanks.

Whirlygig

19th Jun 2006, 21:32

Have_fun_guys! (http://www.sounddogs.com/results.asp?Type=&CategoryID=1005&SubcategoryID=23)

...and yes, one of these IS my mobile ringtone but I got banned from using it at work!

Cheers

Whirls

rugmuncher

19th Jun 2006, 21:46

topendtorque

19th Jun 2006, 22:05

turbine sound effects - boring

obviously what you need is a real helicopter a Bell 47 3B1 which is still fairly warm from its arrival at - the convenient location.

scene - strike up a converstaion with 'the guard', wander over to said machine and con him into sticking his head nearly into the end of the big exhaust pipe, while hero fiddles inside.

Fiddling means - master electrics on - the throttle is given three good primes - wait a half second - hit the start button - just as its going past TDC (top dead centre) of the first compression - throw both mags on.

There will be an ear splitting explosion - followed by the sound of a real engine winding up - guard will be laying flat on the ground with mild concussion - jump in - thirty seconds later as you continue winding up - lift the collective - make like you're just learning to hover - all over the flat like - the other gurads will - take cover - at that point - full throttle - cyclic forward and piss off.

Not that I ever would have done that in real life with those real helpful bloody stickybeaks!