In the best of traditions - lets we forget

[VH-GRUMPY]

Lest we forget (of course)

From the Online Times:

THE first British soldier to be killed in southern Afghanistan died while trying to rescue a wounded colleague under enemy fire, senior military sources said yesterday.

[nigegilb]

One can't help but feel immensely proud of the contribution by the paras. They are massively outnumbered but they ouze confidence and assertivenes. They will already have earned the respect of the locals by their fierceness and bravery under fire. RIP Captain James Philippson, you did your colleagues proud.

Not sure if this is the right thread to mention this, but it is being reported that this op (Mountain Thrust), has been planned for 18 months. Does not sound like reconstruction and counter insurgency to me. 11000 troops going after Talibs in the mountains.

http://www.afghannews.net/index.php?action=show&type=news&id=747

Methinks the Govt was economical with the truth about this mission

[Colonal Mustard]

me thinks me sees an afghan news site.......(somewhat not informed about what is really happening).....secrets and all that

HOWEVER........ i raise a toast Rest in peace and god bless

[nigegilb]

Try the Grauniad then

http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,,1797387,00.html

We are going to need a few more brave troops out there methinks

[Skeleton]

God bless all of them.
Lets just hope once "our" president has departed the fix, we return to more normal times.
I do wonder sometimes about our democratic rights.
Complain to Labour and all you get is hurt pride, were trying and its all the previous incumbants fault.
Your trying? We could argue all day long, but your killing your fellow countymen doing it. Maggie may have had her faults but at least she always remembered the value of british lives. Sometheing El President does not do.
How many times has he been at Brize to watch the body bags come back? I bet Maggie would have been there. We may not have had the kit (what changes?) but no way would she have stood for the deaths that occur now.
Carry on Mr President, If the rumours are true you can go on, get promoted and ruin Europe as well.
W*nke! :D

[Colonal Mustard]

oooh BLAIR makes my blood boil.....especially when i`ve had a wet or two

Skeleton, I CONCUR:ok:

[cazatou]

Skeleton,

Mrs T wrote a personal letter of condolance to the NOK of all those who died in liberating the Falklands; and I mean "wrote" - in person.

Mr B ???

[Colonal Mustard]

and THAT is the difference between a Bloody good leader and a leader(if you can call him that)

[nigegilb]

More grim news from Afg. Not quite sure where this is going to end up. I think I would ask for more troops now.


http://www.afghannews.net/index.php?action=show&type=news&id=757

If Blair gets this one wrong he is surely finished. Fingers crossed for the boys out there.

[Mr-AEO]

:bored:

Are not we supposed to be stabilising the country? As in our mandate under UN?

Drugs interdiction is another thing, not yet, authorised by the UN...

[nigegilb]

I think the full title is reconstruction and defensive counter insurgency, with the ANA responsible for drugs eradication. It's a new one on me too. Anyone explain the difference between counter terrorism and defensive counter insurgency? The Captain was killed in a full on firefight. I am sure the paras are up for it but I feel the Govt has been less than truthful with the real aims of this mission. I don't suppose there will be much in the way of reconstruction going on either.

[Skeleton]

Thank you Nige and Mustard.
For all her faults she would never have stood for whats going on now. I was never her biggest fan, but she realised her serviceman were doing a difficult job, and also did not paddle around telling the americans how wonderful they were.
Her reaction post 9/11 in charge would have been interesting. Her usual posturing certainly. I am going to get you certainly, but we would have least known what was going on.
We would also not be in the mess we are now.
Before anyone mentions it, to my mind, Blair would not have touched the Falklands, why would he? What gain what he got?
Maggie had higher morals thankfully :ok:

[walter kennedy]

nigegilb
The article on the link you gave included this line:
<<British and American officials cannot resort to the tactics of the Taliban, which slashed poppy cultivation in 2001 by threatening to shoot farmers.>>
What follows is not directed at you but comment on that article.
.
Well it was not just their threat of violence but a culture of living their religion that not only drove their forces but encouraged compliance because of conscience – this is what they achieved throughout the (large) area that they controlled:
.
For TEN months prior to the invasion by the USA virtually ALL poppy production had come to a stop – the effect was so profound that a world wide heroine drought occurred and here in Oz at least many, many users found the quality so bad and the cost so high of that available that they took treatment programs – so the Taliban had done more to combat heroine problems in western countries than the USA etc.
It is ironic that Bush lied in an address justifying the coming invasion by stating that 80% of H on American streets came from Afghanistan when it had already stopped that 10 months earlier.
.
They also stopped most general crime within Afghanistan: eg rape of women became extremely rare (it’s back up there now, if you’ll pardon the expression) - OK they had to dress modestly when in public - and I recall one BBC reporter grudgingly admit that he could drive alone a car full of gold through Kabul at midnight in perfect safety. In deed, one of the things that got the Taliban so much support from ordinary Afghans was the desire to have peace and law and order – it was chaos before them and now it is worse.
.
But they must have been invaded for something, right? Perhaps such a cohesive group was bargaining too hard for the 13 oil fields, 16 gas fields, and a slice of the pipeline action?
.
Or was it that they would not hand over Bin Liner? – well, just for an exercise, imagine asking the Americans to hand him over quick smart – effin hard ask even with all their resources and global reach, isn’t it?

[Fortyodd2]

"and THAT is the difference between a Bloody good leader and a leader(if you can call him that)"

Sorry Colonel, but that's actually the difference between a Leader and a Manager.

[Skeleton]

Blair is a manager?
Thatcher was a leader of the old school.
I did not like her but looking at what has arrived after she departed I need no more reasoning.
Blair paddles around trying to please everyone. Maggie pleased herself and her country.
I would have liked to have seen her take on the fire strike. There would be no talk of a second strike now, and rightly so. She would have driven them into where they belong.... this century.
Mr Brown next? maybe not, even Blair seems to realise that it can not go on.
Oh and one final rant, remember when labour were in opposition, they refered to every tory minister by his/her last name,Tony does not like that that anymore, it has to be polite nowadays. How times change.
Tony listen loud and clear, the servicemen of this country will always follow the flag... but not if its led by an idiot, and you sir are one of the largest order!

[Bluntend]

An article from today's Telegraph:
Mr Blair's enthusiasm for committing our Forces to idealistic missions around the world has reduced this country's available force below the safety level. His legacy may prove to be to place Gordon Brown, a man without military understanding, in a position of operational calamity, which he will neither know how to deal with nor posses the means to do so.
Full article:
http://ww2.edsmedia.co.uk/ministryofdefence/OpenPDF.aspx?file=18743452.pdf