The joys of holding

[Burnswannabe]

As I am about to pass the 2 yrs worth of holding mark I thought I would ask the slightly more old and bold types around here what they would do, and where they would go, if they had to spend 6 months holding in the RAF.
I think I've been quite lucky (apart from actually having them) with my holds and I've done quite a bit of AT but can't help but feel that maybe I'm missing out on some of the more interesting jobs out there - and there is only so much travelling you can do before funds begin to get a bit low.
I await your ideas gentlemen.

[DKP1]

I take it you hoping to be a pilot? Which part of your course are you waiting for??

[Burnswannabe]

Without wanting to give myself away too much I'm one of the post Linton restreamees.

[pulse1]

Not military but I have a son who is just starting his second year of holds. It is a disgraceful waste of taxpayers' money and, allowing for the inevitable fallout during training, probably means that we pay to train two to three pilots for every one needed. It is time the MOD got their act together and sorted this ludicrous system out. No business would accept such a waste and survive.

Sorry, just ignore me, but I feel better having said it.

[maxburner]

It's a long time ago now, but I got checked out for the right hand seat in the Dominie and had a whale of a time.

[Mr C Hinecap]

It is time the MOD got their act together and sorted this ludicrous system out. No business would accept such a waste and survive.


I suppose that depends on who runs that part of the business doesn't it? Don't aircrew just want more aircrew?

[airborne_artist]

It is entirely possible that the MoD has done a cost/benefit analysis and worked out that the cost of beefing up the flying training system with extra airframes, maintainers, QFIs etc. is more than the cost of keeping guys and gals holding.

Having built up such a capacity it then needs to be kept utilised, or more is wasted. At least having people holding ensures (or should ensure) max utilisation of assets. If student aircrew numbers start to decline, all that happens is that people hold for less.

That said, I can't think of anything worse - in my time RN lookers got 6 months on a fishery protection boat, pilots were going straight through...

[South Bound]

If you have done the AT side to death, then get to an SH Unit and find out what it is like to be busy, but with a huge smile. Go for Odiham, they could probably use all the holding offrs they can get!

[nutcracker 34]

Had a wonderful time at Leconfield (when 19 and 92 were stationed there). Flew quite a bit as well as doing a lot of helicopter 'survivoring'. Belgian Air Force were involved in a massive exercise at the time...spent much tim in Brussels as a result. Then between courses opted for Dominies at RAF Stradishall where again, a wonderful time was had by all. Have to choose the right place though, and enter with a positive frame of mind.

tpm

[Arclite01]

Syerston ACCGS - there were some holders there when I was there - they were getting plenty of flying

Arc

[MostlyHarmless]

Courses were always a good filler; Bad-K was fun - dunno if it still is...?

[FirstFiveEighth]

I wangled an MSc out of my holding year--marvellous. Back to being a long-haired carefree student again (with comparative loads of dosh, which made chasing totty great fun, not to mention being able to afford the obligatory open roadster). Plenty of flying too, with UAS and occasional visits. Also strengthened the CV :ok:

[exvicar]

Are you a graduate? Having spent a few years holding in the early 90's, the powers that be were prepared to pay a holdee while they undertook a degree. Failing that, Cyprus if you want to learn to windsurf & put on loads of weight through halloumi & Keo beer blow outs. A friend of mine used to help out with the RAF Benevolent Fund & spent most of his time organising elements of RIAT. Most of my other holding units have now been closed, which is more down to funding than my previous behaviour. Whatver you do, enjoy!

[sweaters]

My solution would be to join 17 years ago when there was minimal holding.:}

Seriously, though avoid SH unless you want a medal and a visit to somewhere sandy but no sea. My advice would be to try hard for 84 Sqn. It's the only overseas det worth going on.

As an aside, we've had some lucky holders in the past. 28 Sqn in HK was an obvious good hold. I remember well Steady having a whale of a time.

[goldcup]

I'd thoroughly recommend giving Alex Whittingham a call at Bristol Groundschool (01934 744 944, or have a look at www.bristol.gs). One of the most worthwhile courses you can do in the RAF- and your ELC will pay for a large chunk of it. Getting your ATPL out of the way early means you can spend the rest of your career hours building....

[BEagle]

southbound - I think that's AT as in 'Adventurous Training' rather than 'Air Transport'!

But yes, go and eat mud with the camo-dudes of the RW world to get the full perspective - if that doesn't make you sign up with Alex's ATPL theory school, then nothing will! And ask Basil about Abbotsford......;)

[Burnswannabe]

Some interesting ideas, thanks to all so far.

AT was adventurous training, of which we are now restriceted to one course per hold, I'm glad I won't be holding for almost a year then...oh...wait.
I'm thinking about reintroducing a 1000 days holding badge, I won't be far short by the time I start my next course and another hold is almost a certainty. I remember holding pilots on my UAS who had held for this long and I also remember upon joining how glad I was those days are over.

<rant over>

At least I'm still getting paid, can't imagine industry standing for paying some one for 4 yrs but only making them work at there proper jo for 2 of them. I just have to think of some more imaginative ways to get onto yet more adventurous training courses.

[Roland Pulfrew]

Burns

If you are a post Linton restreamee I assume you have your wings. Get yourself off to an AEF, plenty of nice locations to choose from, and get some flying in. I think most AEFs would bite your arm off:ok:

[No idea]

Why not get JOCC and ISS out of the way - hardly demanding courses so whilst you have the flex do them now. Saves doing them when you get on a Sqn and there really is no time.

[BEagle]

"Why not get JOCC and ISS out of the way..."

Don't bother with Idiot Scribbly School or other such triv - go for the ATPL option....

Mind you, back in the good old days of holding at Biggin Hill when lots of lovely little fighter controller babes were sent there for reselection, one could often end up 'holding' something quite delightfuly warm and curvaceous...:E

Or so I'm told.

[Talk Reaction]

I'd thoroughly recommend giving Alex Whittingham a call at Bristol Groundschool (01934 744 944, or have a look at www.bristol.gs). One of the most worthwhile courses you can do in the RAF- and your ELC will pay for a large chunk of it. Getting your ATPL out of the way early means you can spend the rest of your career hours building....

I'm sure that someone just heading out on their career doesn't need this kind of idea - in fact there's enough moaning and whining about this and that to not need to push it into people's faces, especially the people that haven't had their enthusiasm curbed yet!

University is a great idea if PMA will let you, otherwise pick somewhere outside of the stream you're headed for- broad experience never hurts. Final thought, I know the hold-meisters don't like you doing more than one AT course but remember there is no limit on other pers and you are just as entitled, you'll not get as much chance when you reach the front line so dont even check with them, have your immediate boss back you and how about doing an AT qual that you can bring to a sqn/ unit and take away with you, whenever that may eventually be.

Either way, good luck on your next cse :ok:

[XV1979]

Dude, don't worry yourself about JOCC and ISS, it's not a requirement to join the airlines! Certainly get your ATPL. If you're looking for a good hold then try to work JPA!

[OCCWMF]

Mate of mine held with the Air Attache in Washington. Just contacted him direct. V good apparently.

AT quals are the way ahead. Another mate is a qualed ski instructor and gets phone calls from people asking him to come on ski trips for free - or try sailing/climbing etc.

[jonesthepilot]

Mate of mine held at Boscombe Down a few years ago. Had awhale of a time flying in all manner of aircraft types - F4,Argosy, Buccaneer and Harvard are just a few names I remember. Don't know what it's like now though but may be worth a look?

[Cumbrian Fell]

Shortly after transferring to the RAF many moons ago, I managed to get on a sailing exped that lasted for a year. It involved being in the right place at the right time and ultimately joining the British team in a support capacity. My branch at the time was rather vindictive about it on my return (and by that stage I was a fit, tanned prat with rather bleached hair) and I rapidly failed my professional training. Yet ten years later, having carved out a niche of a career in another branch (that did not involve living in deep granite-lined holes), I was still labelled as 'that guy who is always taking time off to sail'.

Holding posts can be great but if you either f£$k up during them or appear to be caning the ar$e out of 'the system' the hang-over effect can last for many years.

[vecvechookattack]

I had the absolute pleasure of 9 months holding, 7 of which were in Bermuda taking care of 4 speedboats which belonged to the Navy. They were pretty servicable boats and so life was good....shame we had to come back really.

[Corrona]

Lots of interesting perspectives above...best of luck which ever way it works out. But spare a thought for the other branches that invariably don't get to 'choose' where to hold.

[A2QFI]

Sorry to harp back to the 'Olden Days!' When I had to do a bit holding in the 50s a colleague of mine was sent as ADC to the Governor of the Turks and Caicos Islands and another, who had 4 months to kill, was given a short Meteor coversion course and sent to Singapore target towing. RAF was way bigger and didn't have budgets or targets at that time! I am sure that there must still be some decent 'holds' if one does a bit of digging or has friends in the right place! Getting involved in adventurous training of some sort is probably a good try.

[airborne_artist]

ISTR a mention on Pprune of a holding post with the French AF in the south west of France. Great for surfing, pop over to Spain for the w/e etc. Ask around.

[Hot Charlie]

Mate of mine held at Boscombe Down a few years ago. Had awhale of a time flying in all manner of aircraft types - F4,Argosy, Buccaneer and Harvard are just a few names I remember. Don't know what it's like now though but may be worth a look?

Still a top hold when I was there a couple of years back. Lots of time in 9 or 10 types (from the Harvard to the Alphajet to the Andover!) over 6 months or so.

[PaulBMe]

At the end of the day the holding pool needs to be as large as possible, otherwise I wouldn't have any staff in my office.....

[serf]

Surely all these holding officers could be put to good use filling short operational tour staff jobs - SO3 Bogs & Drains sounds appealling.

[cwatters]

> where they would go, if they had to spend 6 months holding in the RAF

How about a spot of gliding in the mountains of Switzerland? or ditto in NZ?

[Gainesy]

US Air Force? (Their term for holding is "casual").
Bag carrier for an Air Attache?

[CofG]

Burnswannabe
I've had the misfortune of doing a bit of holding for flying training too, managed to find out about a little gem called the Holding Officers AT Fund at Innsworth. Its not too well known about but will pay for 1 exped or AT course per hold. PM me for the details. I think this is where the '1 AT course per hold' party line comes from, on that note my holding boss was happy for me to do more that 1 course and what JW doesn't know can't hurt him....;)
Hope this helps,

[The Monkey]

Post Linton re-streamy myself.

Speak to the ever so good* J.Wood and ask about Korea and Japan, Japan being 6 months and Korea pretty much as long as you have got. Korea is better though...







*May be a lie.

[tmmorris]

If you like working with 'youf' then do please go for an AEF job. With the greatest of respect to the older AEF pilots, the cadets really appreciate meeting someone closer to their age - someone they can imagine becoming in a few years' time, and they can talk to about what it's like going through training in the 21st century not the 19th... It's a great boost to recruitment.

Of course, on the downside, it means sitting in a Tutor doing aeros all day... hang on, doesn't sound too bad...

Tim
(VR(T))

[heights good]

If you have done the AT side to death, then get to an SH Unit and find out what it is like to be busy, but with a huge smile. Go for Odiham, they could probably use all the holding offrs they can get!

230sqn in Northern Ireland is a pretty cool place too go. The sqn has a lot of things planned for the next year (cant say too much on here) its operational flying (in the loosest possible terms) and you will get a medal for your trouble. The sqn has had lots of holding guys before (myself being one of them) and they all seem to enjoy it massively.

PM me if you want any more info.

[Cumbrian Fell]

Sad as it will be to prick the bubble, but it is unlikely that many defence sections can absorb a holding officer at the moment. The Foreign Office won't pay for accommodation and subsistence and it is unlikley that HQ PTC would sustain the cost either. Moreover to work in a defence section (within the Chancery) you generally need certain clearances and to meet nationality requirements...
Good work if you can get it, though. It's always worth a try, though. PM me for more details