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millandmitch
4th Dec 2005, 20:01
I am emigrating to New Zealand in 2006 and want to have a change of direction and become an airline Pilot. Has anyone got any info on the best training courses and establishments?

I have heard that Nelson and Christchurch have good training facilities, but can anyone who has been there give me some advice?

Also do the major airlines have any links with them and help any prospective pilots?

Many Thanks

kileA
5th Dec 2005, 11:48
I think that CTC have a new training centre open in NZ at Hamilton. I am hoping to go through my training with them after i finish college. the official site is:
www.ctcaviation.com (http://www.ctcaviation.com)
I know that alot of the applicants have gone onto Easy Jet, and they have said they found it really good. They also have links with:
............................................................ .............................................
Aer Lingus
Air Europe Italy
Air Malawi
Air Mauritius
Air Seychelles
bmi
Britannia Airways/Thomsonfly
British Airways
BMed
Channel Express
Cyprus Airways
easyJet
El AL Israeli Airlines
Eurocypria
Excel Airways
First Choice
Flybe
Fly Globespan
FLYJET
GB Airways
Helios
Irish Aviation Authority
Jet 2
Kuwait Airways
Martinair Holland
Middle East Airlines
MK Airlines
Monarch Airlines
My Travel
PrivatAir
Royal Brunei Airlines
Royal Flight Oman
Royal Nepal Airlines
Singapore Airlines
Thomas Cook Airlines
Transavia
............................................................ .............................................
I only know of how many get chosen for Easy Jet, not too much info on the others, sorry.

millandmitch
5th Dec 2005, 17:44
Thanks for the info I will have a look at the site this evening.

Luke SkyToddler
5th Dec 2005, 17:56
Do you want to become an airline pilot in Europe or New Zealand?

You need to understand that NZ is very different to Europe in that there is no way on earth you can just finish flying school and go join an airline, you need several years of commercial experience on light piston singles and twins before you can even get your CV looked at at the most basic of regional turboprop commuter airlines. Flight training is cheap compared to Europe but there is intense competition for jobs and not a lot of them to be found (why do you think there's so many kiwis and aussies over here in the UK? )

There's a whole forum devoted to this stuff elsewhere on the site, 'dunnunda & godzone'.

As far as schools go, do you know where you're going to be living? There are good schools all over NZ, I know it's hard to grasp this as a wannabe and especially one from the European culture of flight training, but the main thing to keep in mind when selecting a school in NZ is maybe not the training itself but what do they have to offer after you've finished? Where you trained for your PPL and CPL is not really that important to the NZ airlines as it is here in the UK, because you will have done at least 1,500 hours of flying single and twin piston before you get the first airline interview.

Because as I said it's impossible to get an airline job on completion of your bare licence, the best schools to train at are the ones that hire their own graduates as instructors or even better, the ones that have an air taxi / air ambulance / piston twin charter operation as a sideline so you can work towards getting some multi hours and getting your CV on those airline desks once you've got 1,000 - 2,000 total time.

As far as individual schools go, I guess I have a few opinions as to good schools and also a couple of bad ones that you want to avoid. PM me and I'll give you the low down.

Piltdown Man
6th Dec 2005, 20:27
Honestly, I wouldn't hold my breath for a job "Down Under". You have to be damn lucky, know the right people and be there at the right time. There are less jobs there and more punters hunting. Spend your money training to be a dentist or a plumber or something.

smith
8th Dec 2005, 11:38
I think the airlines are more likely to hire a kiwi national, I suppose however if you have the right to live and work there, there should be no discrimination theoretically. The problem in NZ and Oz is vast areas and relatively small population therefore not really the need for the amount of planes we need in the congested skies and densly populated western europe.

FatboyTim
20th Dec 2005, 05:32
"there should be no discrimination theoretically"

In NZ? You must be joking.

captwannabe
6th Apr 2006, 18:54
Which is a better school, Ardmore Flying School or International Aviation Academy of New Zealand? Any other FTOs that you would recommend for CPL multi IR?

Mooney12
6th Apr 2006, 20:46
Do you like planes taxiing onto the runway just as you hit short short finals?

Do you fancy the challenge of 12 planes in an uncontrolled circuit, with half the pilots unable to speak English properly?

Do you like the idea of an old military jet up your arse at 400kts? Again in the circuit....

If the answer is "yes" to the above, then Ardmore is the school for you:ok:

planeshipcar
7th Apr 2006, 09:13
I got my PPL in New Zealand and my 100 hour building for my JAA (f)ATPL.

For its size Kiwi land has quite a few flying schools. I have knowledge of the IAANZ and serveral of my friends went there. They set the standard very high there to that of the equiv of NZRAF courses. They have no nonsense and if you find things hard have no hesitation to kick you off the courses even if you're preapred to work or are working very hard. They turn out good pilots (or throw out mediocre) but it is very pressurised and there is no real personal attention. Ardmore I have been told ahs a very similar tin can factory approach.

From what I have witnessed and I won't give too much away about myself Nelson Avaition College is situated in the beautiful Motuaka and is a very nice relaxed college with a great student buz. Another good school is Flight Training Manawatu - a very personalised approach and friendly school with no pressure. In Christchurch, there is an up and coming school in Wigram which is really friendly and now has multi-engine aircraft and full time courses. You can complete your courses here in half the time. The above three are just a few to mention but in my opinion they are schools where you can really enjoy your flight training. There is no uniform or hierarchy where the instructors have one room to have their lunch and the students another. Beware as well that the main so called 'premier school' you are mainly trained by 22 year olds who have just got ther C Cat 2 months before you started!

I hope this helps. I would like finish by saying that different peoples personalities suit different environments. So IAANZ or Ardmore might be right for you - but ndeffinately not for me!

Bramley
16th Apr 2006, 17:46
You'd also do well to consider Mainland Air in Dunedin, who have a good and very personal setup, or even Air Wakatipu (http://www.flying.co.nz) which would get your flying up to an extremely high standard in a stunning environment before doing your IR elsewhere. No groundschool at the latter, though.

planeshipcar
17th Apr 2006, 07:50
The IAANZ is 4 hours away in Christchurch. Your confusing the Nelson Aviation College which is a 40 minute drive a way in Motuaka fromNelson Aero Club.

The IAANZ is a 3 to 4 hours drive away from Nelson.

Hope this helps the muddle up,

once agian good luck guys!

Luke SkyToddler
17th Apr 2006, 08:29
If it's hour building you want, you'll tend to save money in general by staying away from the big sausage factories - and by that I mean IAANZ, NAC, AFS and certainly Massey. It doesn't really matter which one but a lot of the posters here are right in that you tend to get a more enjoyable experience and 'sometimes' a bit more personalized attention at the Aero Clubs.

If I was to do it all again I'd probably toss a coin and decide between Queenstown & Tauranga, they are both awesome although incredibly different flying environments - Queenstown with those incredible mountains and scenery and hard core flying, and Tauranga with all those incredible bikini clad chicks down the beach along with fantastic surfing, nightlife and general party town feel. Can't speak for Wakatipu but there are at least two schools on the airfield at Tauranga that can sort you for CPL/IR, the Tauranga aero club and Bay Flight.

Mooney12 wasn't joking about Ardmore either the place is an absolute nightmare for training purposes, I instructed on the airfield there for several years (although not at AFS) and I have to say the way it's structured at the moment - uncontrolled - its an accident waiting to happen. Oh and 12 planes in the circuit is an average day there, it can and does get a lot worse than that on sunny afternoons. The all time record from the time that I was there was 27 in the circuit with 8 on the ground waiting for taxi, and 5 others holding clear of the circuit waiting for joining clearance (back when it was controlled).

pinns84
26th Apr 2006, 16:49
Hey folks, i'm looking around for a CPL course and so far like the sound of New Zealand. Has anyone done it out there? Any recommendations on schools out there? A line or two on any general experiences whist out there would also be helpful, cheers now

wagstaff,B
1st May 2006, 08:26
Hi, I am currently applying to join the RNZAF and thought id look at my options if i am unsucessful. Im after any information or advice about any of the training institutions in New Zealand. For example any recommendations you may have or advice on the ones to be weary of. Im from down south but am willing to train anywhere if it will better my chances of employment and provide me with the best training environment.
Any information will be appreciated,

cheers

AerocatS2A
1st May 2006, 13:40
Mainland Air is in Dunedin and is (or was, when I was there) an excellent flying school.

The Wakatipu Aeroclub in Queenstown is good if you think you might like to get in to the Queenstown flying scene.

wagstaff,B
2nd May 2006, 03:36
Thanks thats good to hear. I have heard Mainland Air has a good reputation. Do you think there is a disadvantage in studing for a diploma of aviation which Mainland offers compared to the bachelor of aviation through Massey Unversity?. Or is is industry just as accepting of both qualifications?

AerocatS2A
2nd May 2006, 12:51
If I was you, and had the time to do a degree or diploma, I'd do it in something non-aviation related. That way you have some back up qualifications in case flying doesn't work out.

Some airlines like you to have a degree, but they don't specify an aviation degree.

CDP8
5th May 2006, 06:56
I had a great time with Peter Hendriks at Aspiring Air in Wanaka. An awesome place to live the whole year round and nothing has ever compared to my experience of flying round the snow capped peaks and glaciers of the southern alps. cons of the school may be the occasional over laid back approach and their main business being scenic flights. They offer PPL to CPL training only, and Pete has an awesome tiger moth you can get rated on. They have a web site you can find easily through google. I personally found Wakatipu a little pompus and over priced, however they do promise a job at the end of CPL training.

Best of luck:ok:

Kiwiguy
16th May 2006, 05:40
Aerocats, they've bureaucratised everything to do with learning to fly in NZ since making taxpayer funded loans available. The politicians want to call it a diploma or bachelor's degree so that colleges can muscle in on aviation.

When I learned to fly one couldn't get loans like this so it is the medicine one must swallow for being treated like any other career. Of course it isn't and sometimes colleges don't get it.

AerocatS2A
16th May 2006, 09:42
I am glad they've made taxpayer loans available. When I was learning in NZ I used to laugh at the students whowere complaining about how much debt they were getting into - I would've given my left testy to be given the opportunity to get into some debt!

If they're requiring that it be part of an "aviation degree" though, then it seems they may have missed the point somewhat.

djmaani
25th May 2006, 10:33
Hi There,

Guys, I wanted to know if Nelson Aviation College in Motueka, New Zea Land is having a good reputation in the airlines. I am going to take Professional Pilot course there. So please help!
Guys who know anything about this college please share your information here. It will be appreciated.

Regards.

AerocatS2A
25th May 2006, 13:35
It is "New Zealand". Anyway, as far as I'm aware, airlines don't care where you learnt to fly as long as you have the minimum experience and the personality they want. If I was you, I would select a flying school that you are happy with for personal reasons (price, lifestyle, personal attention etc,) and not worry too much about what the airlines think.

Also, you may get more responses by asking a moderator to move this thread to the Dununder and Godzone forums.

djmaani
25th May 2006, 13:43
Thanx for your reply Aerocat.
I got one more question here.
After i complete the Professional Pilot course, who would employ me? or how can i get the experience required to join an Airline?

AerocatS2A
25th May 2006, 14:23
It depends on where you want to fly. If you intend staying in NZ or going to Australia then you will find that you are at the bottom of a heap of barely qualified commercial pilots. You will probably have to do some single engine VFR scenic work followed by some twin piston engine charter, then maybe turbo-props in a regional airline. This may take several years.

On the other hand, the situation is different in other countries. Europe seems to have airlines that will employ low time pilots.

djmaani
25th May 2006, 20:38
If you intend staying in NZ or going to Australia then you will find that you are at the bottom of a heap of barely qualified commercial pilots. You will probably have to do some single engine VFR scenic work followed by some twin piston engine charter, then maybe turbo-props in a regional airline. This may take several years.
On the other hand, the situation is different in other countries. Europe seems to have airlines that will employ low time pilots.

Thanx again,
but isn't it possible that an Airline recruit a CPL holder without any experience or just after he is qualified?
My uncle is a Captain in GulfAir, he said that soon after i finish my training, Gulf Air may recruit.
Do u think that this is possible?:ok:

AerocatS2A
26th May 2006, 00:22
I can only speak for the NZ and Australian airlines and tell you that it won't happen here. As I said above though, I gather that some overseas airlines do hire low time pilots, but I know nothing about them, someone else will have to give details on them.

Your Uncle should be able to tell you what the requirements are for entry in to GulfAir.

djmaani
26th May 2006, 12:13
thanx dude!

wat r u doin now a days?

AerocatS2A
26th May 2006, 13:00
Flying Dash 8s here in Australia. See, I've been flying for over 10 years and am only halfway there. But then I've been careful to enjoy the different flying I've done as I've progressed, and am not as motivated to get the Big Jet Job the way some others are.

pheeel
27th May 2006, 20:42
I got a NZ PPL(A) with Jackie Frame at Hanmer Air in July last year. A small set up but I had a great time and would recommend it to anyone.
You can quite happily fly in the UK in any aircraft that are on your NZ licence with certain restrictions - day, only in UK airspace etc. check out lasors. For example I am rated on C172s and supercubs so can fly these aircraft in the UK.
As for converting, it's simple: less than 100 hours total time you have to take all the theory exams (including RT and practical), a skills test and get a JAA medical. With more than 100 hours I believe it's just Air Law and Procedures, Human limitations (for some reason, never understood that), and obviously RT and practical. And a skills test and get a JAA medical.
I think there may be somewhere in the North Island that does JAA PPLs, check out the back end of "Pilot".
As has been mentioned before on here, Irv Lee has an excellent site regarding conversions etc:
http://www.higherplane.flyer.co.uk/

hope that helps.

BillieBob
27th May 2006, 23:41
There is, at present, no training organisation in New Zealand approved to provide JAA PPL courses. CTC in Hamilton are approved by the UK to provide courses for the JAA modular CPL(A), IR(A) and MEP but as far as I know, they train only their own students under the 'Wings' scheme and are not interested in taking on any third-party training.

jd8
29th May 2006, 09:14
SASKATOON9999 (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=25234) i have experience of both jaa and nzcaa licences so if you want to know where to train and conversion info pm me.

jd8
29th May 2006, 09:22
dijmaani

if you want to train in nz go to http://www.flighttraining.co.nz/
biggest school in nz and know a guy from bharain training there.

Good school with large fleet and good insturctors, plus it operates in an international airport and a parallel grass vector as well as the main runway. Well worth a look if you are coming to NZ.

stockportonealpha
29th May 2006, 11:46
Hi All,

I want to do an ab-initio course leading to my fATPL - I have spent a year or so in NZ before, and think it would be a great place to learn to fly (and cheaper than the UK)!

Which course/training centre do you think might be suitable? I would rather stick with one training provider! The problem is that I want to be as confident as possible in finding 'pilot' work once I return to the UK - are the British airlines going to be concerned that I have done my training in NZ?! How easy/expensive is it to convert the licence to JAA?!

And also out if interest, where do Air New Zealand recruit there lowhour cadet pilots from - do they have a preferred training partner in NZ?? i.e. perhaps in the same way that BA seem confident to take on a good amount of OAT integrated students in the UK!

Thanks for your help!!

AerocatS2A
29th May 2006, 12:36
And also out if interest, where do Air New Zealand recruit there lowhour cadet pilots from - do they have a preferred training partner in NZ?? i.e. perhaps in the same way that BA seem confident to take on a good amount of OAT integrated students in the UK!

Air New Zealand does not employ any low hour cadet pilots. The only operator in the region who does anything like that is Qantas with their own cadets.

stockportonealpha
12th Jun 2006, 13:07
Hi there!

Has anyone any experience of flight training (ATPL) in New Zealand. I am looking at the International Aviation Academy of New Zealand and wondering if anyone has any experience with them? Are there any Brits that have done one of their courses and are now flying commercially in the UK!?

http://www.flighttraining.co.nz/ (http://www.flighttraining.co.nz/)

Thanks for your help!

captwannabe
12th Jun 2006, 15:33
Do a search on this forum for New Zealand/IAANZ/etc. and a few results should be thrown up. Do a search on the Godzone and Dunnunda forums aswell. Lots more info there, and you'll get proper opinions from people who fly in NZ, and there are mixed opinions on many of the bigger FTOs there. There definitely were Irish and Brits who trained with them. Some of them returned to Europe and converted their licences while some loved NZ and stayed there.

RITZER82
14th Jun 2006, 02:06
I am very strongly looking at going to this academy in New Zealand as it is alot more cheaper and sounds like a respectful establishment. I have spoken to the senior flight instructor a chap called Jay and seems like a great guy. I am thinking of visiting Chritstchurch very soon with my family and see how the living environment is like out there. The only downside to this is it is thousands of miles away from home here in the UK. If you want to communicate privately I will give you my email address and maybe we could start together as I am looking out for a fellow Brit.:)

Hamil000
14th Jun 2006, 03:03
newzealand maybe a great place, but if your planning to work in the UK as a pilot, you will have to convert your licence, and that will take you about 2 years and you may spend more than 50,000. but flight training is cheap you may spend about 22,000£, way cheap compared to any uk training school

but if iam not mistaken does newzealand offer a JAA COURSE INTERFRATED OR MOL

Hamil000
14th Jun 2006, 03:04
newzealand maybe a great place, but if your planning to work in the UK as a pilot, you will have to convert your licence, and that will take you about 2 years and you may spend more than 50,000. but flight training is cheap you may spend about 22,000£, way cheap compared to any uk training school

but if iam not mistaken does newzealand offer a JAA COURSE INTERGRATED OR MOL

captwannabe
14th Jun 2006, 10:43
IAANZ are linked with Cabair in the UK to convert your licence to JAA, but it would be possible to convert with many other schools too. I think in NZ it doesn't matter too much whether the training is integrated or modular, because when you get your NZ CPL/IR, people mainly become instructors. The industry there is quite different to Europe as low-hour pilots have no hope of getting a turboprop or jet job.

transmitforDF
19th Jun 2006, 08:44
After i have finished my training for a PPR i then wonder where i go for the best commercial training. A place on my mind is New Zealand and i was wondering if any pilots on here trained in New Zealand and would recommend it to me.

Thanks

apocraphe
29th Jun 2006, 09:14
Does anyone know what the quality of training at Hawkes Bay is like? I've been looking at there for a while and am hoping to go and train in NZ in about a years time doing my PPL, CPL, IR etc all at the same time but modular... also Hamil000 can you clarify what you were saying about conversion - two years and £50,000? That's more and longer than it takes just to study in Europe for starters! is that really right?

Bramley
29th Jun 2006, 09:35
The big difference is the exams.
From memory, the NZ CPL involves something like seven exams (don't quote me on that). These are self-study, reasonably but not desperately demanding, and can be taken at a local examination centre.
In the UK, you are looking at nine exams for a CPL, fourteen if you want to go for an IR/frozen ATPL. This includes a period of mandatory ground school and the exams can only be taken at Gatwick (I believe). Intensive self-study will take a couple of years; a full time residential course will take between six and nine months.
So, apart from the 25 hour flying course and the cost of the CPL test, there is a lot of extra work involved in the conversion. I can't comment on the IR.
Put simply: if you want to fly commercially in the UK, do your CPL in the UK. If you want to fly in NZ/Aus, do the CPL down there. Forget about cost, think about time.

TCX-G-FCLA-B757-200
9th Jul 2006, 18:01
Hi all,

Does anyone know any information about the Nelson Aviation College in NZ and especially the JAA professional pilot training course that they run in association with Atlantic flight training Ltd (UK).
Just looking at the course and it sounds good, but need some advice about it if anyone one can help. Please let me know if you can.

Cheers, G-FCLA, Nick. :ok: :ok:

UrlocalAZn
2nd Nov 2006, 04:31
Hey does anyone know where to get the best flight training in new zealand. would it be better to study at university to get a degree in aviation or would a flight training school be better?

bigsky73
4th Jan 2007, 14:21
Hi

I am a UK citizen and have, for the past 6 months, been looking around the various flight training schools to help me make a decision on which to go for!

Having decided to go down the fully integrated route, obtained my Class 1 medical certificate, cleared an assessment day at CabAir, I had more or less just signed up to the course when I was invited to New Zealand for a family wedding...

I totally fell in love with the country and am now hastily re-thinking my decision to attend a UK flying school when I could train over in NZ for around one third of the cost, experience some unique flying environments and ultimately use my licence to stay in NZ permanently!

With loads of small and medium size regional airlines, along with Air New Zealand and other 'Pacific' carriers, there would seem a good chance of securing some form of flying employment - if not immediately after, then some time in the future once hours have been accrued etc.

My questions, to anyone who would be willing to share a similar experience, have some knowledge of flying training / living in New Zealand are as follows.

Note, I have asked various flying traning schools these same questions and, as you might expect, have received vastly different answers to the questions, so it will be interesting to hear from anyone who knows:

1. Once a NZ ATPL licence has been obtained by myself, is it then difficult (should I wish to return to the UK immediately after qualifying) to convert to a JAR ATPL. If so, if I had any doubt about my intentions to stay long term in NZ, would it be far wiser to pay the extra money and obtain it in the UK?

2. Once qualified with my NZ ATPL, can a UK citizen actually apply for NZ pilot jobs, or will I require to obtain residency prior to applying? Or could I fly on a work visa / permit? Once I obtain my licence I would like to STAY in NZ long term and not return to the UK - is this feasible?

I would really appreciate ANY advice, or comment on flying training in New Zealand and living and working in there as a commercial pilot.

Look forward to hearing your comments.

Cheers.

G-LOST
4th Jan 2007, 17:17
Converting you NZ licence to a UK ATPL is a massive undertaking. I know, I did it...

You will need to become a NZ resident to fly for a NZ airline. That may not be such a massive undertaking, however you will then pit yourself against hundreds of NZers looking for a handful of jobs. I know, I came to the UK to avoid this!

Getting into Air NZ or any of the Link companies is also a major accomplishment - many fall by the wayside.

The grass is not always greener. NZ is a fantastic place, however the UK job market is a lot bigger...

Luke SkyToddler
5th Jan 2007, 00:01
NZ is indeed a beautiful country and a top notch place to train.

However the commercial aviation industry back there is completely screwed up. The UK is an aviation employment paradise by comparison.

You won't get into even the most lowly of 19-seat commuter turboprop RHS jobs, without something like 1500 TT and several hundred multi engine. Even then, you'll be lucky to be earning NZ$30,000 for your efforts. It can take several years and several more thousand hours to get into the left seat of that same poxy 19-seater and maybe earning $50 or $60K. Here in the UK you'd be expecting a Boeing or Airbus command in the same kind of time frame (and obviously earning in the £70-90K range for doing so).

The problem is a simple one - the flying schools pump out between 400 and 600 CPL's a year and Air NZ (the only big-jet airline, the job everyone's waiting for) hires maybe 20 or 30 people a year. In some years it hires none at all. Then there's little or no movement in the turboprop regionals either, and basically no jobs for anyone looking for their first start. Despite the best intentions and best abilities of so many recently trained pilots, the flying career is just not forthcoming in NZ due to simple supply and demand.

That's why me and so many of my countrymen (& women) are to be found filling up flightdecks in other parts of the world, Europe and Asia and the Middle East are all riddled with expat kiwis and aussie pilots.

A lot of us would love to go home to live for all the reasons you've stated but not many of us ever will, except to retire.

The long term immigration issue is an entirely separate one, it's not my area of expertise but I would guess that there is absolutely zero chance that a local airline would be able to - or indeed be interested in - sponsoring a foreign national for a work visa. You might qualify under the points-based immigration lottery system, especially if you've got family already there. Or else you could just take the easy option, find yourself some kiwi girl and bust out that diamond ring :)

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news mate, feel free to PM me for any specific info you may desire

cheers

- Luke ST

flyingklunzy
5th Jan 2007, 06:34
I couldnt agree more with the above posts.

I am a ex-kiwi and after working my butt off for GA companies for 2 years with below min wage (this has to be done to get your hours up) and with over 1000hrs now a couple of houndred multi I was still a little below what was needed for B1900

So here I am doing a conversion, as I believe the chances of jobs here are way better. Progression is anyway.

In air NZ you will be a 2nd officer for about 7 years before moving on.

Cant take away that doing the training in NZ is a good thing, the scenary is amazing and there is some amazing flying to be done there.

bigsky73
5th Jan 2007, 07:33
Thanks for all your comments and advice guys. Really useful to hear.