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mjc269
11th Jun 2006, 01:50
I am a student helicopter pilot. Why do I fly like crap with anyone but my instructor, and what can i do to help my self ? If anyone can explain this to me please do. :ugh:

dragonfly13
11th Jun 2006, 02:39
When you first start out you will always fill nervous with other people. I was the same, because I felt even though I had low hours I had to try and prove myself to whoever got in, especially if they were a pilot.

Give it time and just relax. Just keep doing what you were taught.:ok:

MightyGem
11th Jun 2006, 03:46
Nothing changes.

whoateallthepies
11th Jun 2006, 07:39
Been flying 30 years and my wife tells me I'm still like a bear with a sore head just before my 6 monthly OPC. I don't suppose that's going to change now!
:cool:

Whirlygig
11th Jun 2006, 07:59
It's even worse with me. I fly like I normally fly with my instructor and he quite happy with the check ride. Then (and this could be an hour later), the same man takes me for my LPC. I am awful. He commented on it and asked why I was nervous, it was only him?!

I said yes, but you're not an instructor today, you're an examiner!

I have my next LPC due shortly; I'll let you know if I'm still the same!

So mjc, this doesn't help you except let you know it's not unusual and other piltos are the same!

Cheers

Whirls

Genghis the Engineer
11th Jun 2006, 08:39
Having been flying for a couple of decades, and coming up on 50 odd types as PiC, they still scare me.

My biggest fear is that actually I can't fly for toffee, I've got away with it by pure luck so far, and that the next checkride will find me out :ooh:

G

MBJ
11th Jun 2006, 09:28
Just to be dull...

Sit with the Flight Manual and re-learn EVERY single limit. Play hangar pilot and rehearse every emergency that can possibly happen to you.

If you're in the position to, use up an hour doing all the stuff an Examiner will do with you (Apart from engine-offs!)

I suspect if you become fully confident in your own abilities, you'll be OK.

I wish I was diligent enough to do all of the above, all the time!

996
11th Jun 2006, 09:51
MBJ is right - and I was advised to do similar many years ago. Knowledge is power and the more you have about about your machine, abilities and the plethora of ****e you just have to know - then the greater you confidence. It's a time thing and as you progress you will discover you will loose some of that nervousness. But hey, its that nervousness that can be used to keep you on the ball. Complacency is the killer..............

Gaseous
11th Jun 2006, 10:01
I save up all my errors and failings for the whole year and get them all over and done with on my LPC. This year I managed to invert it on the steep turn! The examiner said as he shifted uncomfortably in his seat "At least you didnt loose any height".:eek: Sorry Norman.

Beware of overconfidence.

Whirlybird
11th Jun 2006, 17:10
My biggest fear is that actually I can't fly for toffee, I've got away with it by pure luck so far, and that the next checkride will find me out

Exactly how I feel!!!!!

I recently took on someone else's student, an instructor who'd left. The chap had about 12 hours, and I'd been told he was doing quite well. He started the checks and start-up, and was obviously absolutely terrified of making a mistake. I finally stopped him and had a chat, telling him I knew he hadn't flown for a bit, wasn't there to criticise him, wasn't bothered if he made mistakes, and knew exactly how he felt as I hated flying with new people too. I think it helped, not sure...anyway, he's still flying with me. :ok:

mjc269,
You are not alone, not at all. But can any of us explain it? Not sure. It sounds a little like a lack of confidence thing...which is better than over-confidence anyway. Try just accepting that this is the way you are and don't fight it. Not sure if that'll make it go away, but at least it'll stop you complicating the issue.

mjc269
11th Jun 2006, 18:02
That makes me feel better. Atleast I'm not the only one.

KikoLobo
12th Jun 2006, 06:42
Is written in the buttom of the fuel tank......


This means that it takes time... About the CR instructor... I guess this will never go away....

Helinut
12th Jun 2006, 08:43
Absolutely agree with all the above.

It is also my experience that it is worse with some examiners than others. Some give the impression of trying to encourage you, whilst other feel like trappers. I have come across one or two that seem to want to catch you out to prove how much better they are than you...

Letsby Avenue
12th Jun 2006, 10:21
Mighty Gem is right; 6000 hrs and you will still hate check rides. The only way round it is to take MBJs advice; Play hangar pilot with the FLM before each and every every check. Why do you feel that you fly better with your instructor? Because you are safe in the knowledge that you can't cock it up - He is your mental safety check, when you are on your own your brain is working at twice the rate to make up for it. You will improve with time and experience.

Gotta agree with Helinut. Some of my previous examiners for LPC/OPC have been brilliant, you feel at ease and you learn from them. Others, it has to be said, are crap....

NickLappos
12th Jun 2006, 14:44
Check-itus? The answer is NOT to bone up even more and more on the book, because it is not that extra bit of knowledge that screws up the checkride. Quite the opposite, it is virtually NEVER a bit of knowledge that make the ride go badly, and if you treat the ride as something extra-ordinary and requiring a crash course in esoteric memorization, you will feed the monster that wrecks checkrides. That monster is the self-consciousness that the pilot feels.

How does a check ride go bad? While flying, the pilot starts self-examining and critiqueing, and chews up reserve mental powers saying things to himself like "Oh, gosh, did he see that? What is happening here? Gee, the RPM is off now, too! Uh, Oh, did he see that? What is happening"

No student pilot has much reserve capacity, it is natural that the workload of just flying the thing is high. Once you start down the slippery slope of also maintaining a running dialog of critique, you are dead, and surprises start to mount, you get further behind, and the ride goes to hell.

How do you stop the check-itus insanity? Do not let the self critique start, just fly the darn airplane, and do what you usually do. Have faith in yourself, and learn to stop the internal loop of questions and critiques.

212man
12th Jun 2006, 14:52
"....just fly the darn airplane, and do what you usually do..."

Well said! Pet hate number one: Pilot returns from leave and complains about doing an OPC. So, does that mean you aren't able to fly the line???:confused:

Gordy
12th Jun 2006, 16:18
A wise old examiner once gave me the following explanation:
RETREATING BRAIN STALL
(ri-trēt'ing brān stôl): This is a condition of severe mental dysfunction, where the information flow in the advancing half of the brain (the input and retention half) is drastically unbalanced by the requirement for rapid output of information from the retreating half of the brain (the output half), resulting in a temporary stall of information flow from ANY part of the brain.
This debilitative condition is often found in student helicopter pilots, and occasionally in rated pilots, when they are under the stress of situations such as rigorous training sessions, phase checks, and especially, FAA check rides. This condition is transitory in nature and if encountered on the ground (such as during oral exams), usually clears up after a brief moment of relaxation. However, if this condition occurs in flight while one is acting as pilot-in-command, prolonged retreating brain stall may have fatal results.

skidbiter123
13th Jun 2006, 10:53
I completely screwed my CPL flight test because I had got myself so nervous.
I blamed my poor autos, but in reality, it was just an all-round crappy attempt!
Anyway, I had convinced myself that my autos were to blame, and during a practice flight after the failed test, my instructor suggested that I try and hum the 'A team' theme as loud as I could...sounds rediculous, but I actually found that the timimg of the theme worked particularly well with the final stages of the flare.
So I sat the flight test again, and felt quite confident. I did a lot better, although definitly not up to my usual standard. It started to look like I was going to get nervous again and stuff it a second time.
I was requested to demostrate a 180 auto, and decided to try the 'A Team' trick. I pulled off an absolutely perfect text-book auto to the spot, which ensured a pass...
Anyway, long story short...
"If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team." :cool:

Pandalet
13th Jun 2006, 11:23
Please explain the A-team theme timing thing - I struggle a bit with flare timing, and it sounds useful. Bearing in mind that I'm a beginner, feel free to explain everything in great detail, using easy words ;)

skidbiter123
13th Jun 2006, 19:22
I think it would be foolish of me to tell you how to execute an autorotation using the A team theme.

The point is that you need to lighten up a bit...or at least i needed to lighten up when I was in the same situation. Using something like humming a tune is mearly a way to lighten up and take a bit of the over-seriousness that you have created away. We all know that when you tense up, your control inputs become less smooth, and sometimes mechanical. It is this that I believe was creating my bad autos. Simply by making myself relax a little, everything just came together.

At the end of the day, you probably know how to do everything you need to demonstrate in your flight test. You probably know how to do most, or all of it well. The only difference is that there will be more pressure during the flight test, and you are the one creating that pressure, so find something that will make you chill out a bit...preferably not drugs or alcohol!

ShyTorque
13th Jun 2006, 20:22
If you're nervous - just imagine how your examiner must feel..... :ooh:

Seriously, I've been flying 30 yrs and still never produce my best on a check ride, for exactly the same reason as everyone else who has said so.... :ok:

CyclicRick
14th Jun 2006, 08:33
I hate them, fingers and thumbs body inside the cockpit brain outside it never changes!

Rob2160
14th Jun 2006, 11:15
Mjc269,

You are definately not alone, I was the same when I first started flying, on my ppl (fixed wing) flight test in 1983 I was nervous and told my examiner. The conversation went like this...

Me. "I'm a bit nervous today about this test"

Examiner. "Are you planning flying as a career"

Me. "Yes I want to get my commercial"

Examiner, "Well you might as well stop being nervous about flight tests, if you are going to be a pilot you will be doing them every year for the rest of your life"

That comment always stuck with me and made me realise that nobody was forcing me to do a flight test. It was MY CHOICE to be there in the plane with the examiner. I wanted to be a pilot and nobody was going to stop me!

Then I read another article about flight tests, the author said he saw each one as a personal challenge and an opportunity to improve his flying. He would either blitz the test, or learn something from it. Even a failure would result in a long term benefit (Ie. a lesson learned)

Now an ATPL fixed wing Grade 1 Instructor, 19 Instrument renewals, CPL H with 7000 total hours, I can honestly say that I renewals or any form of check ride is just routine...

So my question to you...

Do you want to be a commercial pilot?....

;)

Huskie
14th Jun 2006, 15:35
mjc269 - good interesting thread.

Check rides are never easy. As a PPL examiner and TRE I try to offer checks to pilots as an opportunity to practice maneuvers that they would not normally do. This is not to catch them out or put them under undue pressure but to try and build confidence. The only way to improve skills whether it is an ILS approach or engine off landing is to practice. Unfortunately unless you are in the training environment is very difficult to practice for real because of the expense.

Being a hangar pilot is a really good idea as is the use of PC based flight sims. Personally I find check rides difficult even though I fly with some very tolerant and understanding training captains. I do take the opportunity to iron out any problems and always maintain a positive view.

The great thing with flying helicopters is it’s a skill that can be continually improved on. I have learnt just as much from low hour pilots as well as the more experienced.

wobble2plank
14th Jun 2006, 18:26
Have had great problems with 'testitus' myself.

One night, howling crosswind, viz nil, bumpy as :mad: and I had the ils nailed to the centre of the HSI.

Next day, 8/8ths sunshine, no wind, bird tweeting, examiner in the left and I couldn't find the same ILS into the same airfield for toffee!!!!

Sod's law really. You try so hard to prove and impress that the situational awareness goes out the window. I have also seen exactly this in students.

Best solution, become a train driver, no seriously.... relax, chill and enjoy.

W2P

HELOFAN
14th Jun 2006, 19:01
Most Train drivers that I have met have some serious issues that thankfully denies a train to much other than go forward and back.

It is a stressful job honestly...and real boring.

LOL

HF

Denti
14th Jun 2006, 21:02
NickLappos got it right, preparing too much can make your performance even worse.

A few weeks ago i had the opposite happen to me, had a normal standby duty when they called me at 5:00am and told me to go on a 12 hour duty to get my 6 months check done (fixed winger simulator, deadheading to and from, briefing time, 4 hours in the simulator). Of course i wasn't prepared since my check was only due the next month. I panicked a bit but then just got my stuff and went to deadhead to the simulator, met my captain for the day on the plane who was even more panicking since he was prepared to fly on the right seat (RTC) and had to fly now on the left one. Went into the simulator, the TRE gave me the choice to fly the check as check or just as assisting crewmember but i decided to have a go to get it done. Although i wasnt prepared, didnt study had no time to get my mind into the "check" status it was the best check i've ever flown so far.

Not studying at all is bad as well, but the ramped up studying before a check is due, trying to get the details with what TRE and what other crewmember you fly etc can make you enter the check in an already way too nervous atmosphere. Just flying the damn thing and trying to get it as right as on the line is the best you can try to do.

Letsby Avenue
14th Jun 2006, 21:15
If it's any consolation - I've only got another 16 to go then it's off to sunnier climes to get even fatter on red wine, feta and olives....:ok:

212man
15th Jun 2006, 02:30
Denti,
exactly what I was saying earlier; the check is just to confirm you can do what is expected of you every time you fly the line.

whoateallthepies
15th Jun 2006, 08:05
Just before my initial IRT I asked for guidance from an older and much wiser pilot. His words of advice? - "Make sure your shoes are polished. Then when it's all going to rats**t you can look at your feet and console yourself with the fact that at least your shoes look better than his"!

It worked for me.

Rushes
15th Jun 2006, 09:28
mjc269,

Well i think your getting the msg now chap, we all suffer!

One thing that i have found on the checkride, nevermind which one and with whom.... nerves play their part and you sometimes doubt yourself and it all goes horribly wrong.

However, encounter an emergency when your out working, whether it be a light or an engine out, then your professionlism carries you through.... your focussed and all that you have learnt and experienced comes into play.

And why do you feel different when it happens for real?, because you dont have someone looking over your shoulder watching your every move!.... but your check pilots and training captains are a wealth of experience for you to learn from, take every opportunity, remember that they have been there to, and are there to help.

happy flying

cptjim
16th Jun 2006, 02:49
Hey MJC, Check your PM :ok:

Best regards

CyclicRick
16th Jun 2006, 09:14
Letsby, same here I'll meet you on that island with a pina colada if I don't get chopped first! :}


Rick

PS. Just passed LPC/OPC no probs...it's all about proper training;)

Reefdog
16th Jun 2006, 18:19
cja


dont worry man i have been in the industry for over 20 years and still sh,t meself every medical and every ppc/ipc whick is every 6 months these days,,handg in there dude..back to the vb green cans

Letsby Avenue
16th Jun 2006, 20:25
Quite agree Cylic... I was amazed at how much I didn't know after my 'Conversion' which became apparent over the next few OPCs with the Chief 'Trapper':} No Pina Coladas where I'm going I'm afraid, can't quite afford the Carribean...:(

CyclicRick
18th Jun 2006, 23:21
Yes it was certainly an eye opener alright!
What island would it be then if not in the caribbean.....wight...Alcatraz???:eek:

2000hrsinVN
19th Jun 2006, 08:02
With little typical notice for our check rides, I pretty much enjoyed them because I got to do the stuff I couldn't do without the IP saying to, or to explain what he wanted me to do. made a better day-to-day pilot out of me generally.

What would really grinched me was flying again in the co-pilot seat (left for us in Hueys) after umpteen hundreds of hours in the right as AC -- whole different feel to the situation -- with the Old Man as AC.