View Full Version : Schweizer 330/333
407TX
10th Jun 2006, 01:24
I am looking if somebody have some information on an accident in Botswana a few years ago of a Schweizer 330/333 helicopter that crash and burn. Thanks.
407TX
10th Jun 2006, 01:26
I am looking if somebody have some information on an accident in Botswana a few years ago of a Schweizer 330/333 helicopter that crash and burn. Thanks.
stevef
10th Jun 2006, 05:24
The accident at SSKA was caused, if I remember correctly, by fuel being sucked into the air intake because the filler cap hadn't been replaced or secured after replenishment. A simple mistake with tragic consequences.
Flatdog
10th Jun 2006, 06:24
The pilot's name was Pat Pendergrast. He was an employee of Kalahari Air Services, so they might have more gen.
Pat died tragically, albeit a few days after the accident, due to burns and smoke inhalation.
407TX
10th Jun 2006, 18:21
Thanks for the information, does anybody knows where are I can find a copy of the accident report?
Why?.........................
Flatdog you are right. Were you there or hear of it?
Stevef you know of it well any offical news that you know of or just brushed under the blanket?
I think maybe he does not want to die.
Maybe he has family that cares.
If you knew the story you would be ashamed to be involed in what S333 call a helicopter, just n only just following the loop holes in the rule book of the allmighty FAA to get this thing certified.
stevef
12th Jun 2006, 17:50
Can't add much, I'm afraid. A witness told me about it shortly after the accident: apparently the Schweizer had just gotten airborne when it caught fire.
I left Botswana two and a half years ago so I've heard nothing about the outcome of the investigation (the DCA accident reports seem to take a considerable time to surface, even within the local 'trade'). Regardless of who was responsible for the filler cap, you wouldn't really expect a catastrophic result from such a simple (and easily done) error...
Perhaps a websearch for Schweizer-related Airworthiness Directives or Bulletins might throw a bit more light on things. Sorry I can't be of more help.
Looks like there may be muck raking on the Schweizer 333?
ampk was trying to make a point about the 330/333 in the other Schweizer thread.
Plus, if you want info on a crash, try and see if there was an official report either from Botswana or perhaps the FAA.
Now, if there is a point you want to make....make it, don't insinuate. If you have genuine concerns over the safety of an aircraft, then explain your opinions. I, for one, would be genuinely interested.
This site is anonymous and in any case, everybody is entitled to their opinion and you cannot be 'prosecuted'. If you could, then Robinson Helicopter Corp. would be very busy with some of the folk who post on this site!
It would also help if ampk made some sense (incidentally S333 is a type of helicopter that Schweizer manufacture)
Yeh,
flatdog left 2ish years ago myself and was 1 of very few wittnesses.
And saw the cap.
Checked and nothin about it anywhere almost didnot happen - on paper (that I can find).
Any ****zer guys tell me this mashine safe (333) or shall the toll continue.
407 TX did not tell you another 3 have died, That should not have happened.
Another 3 dead fire crash please explane. Mexico and Botswana. ****zer 269D 333. Help
topendtorque
17th Jun 2006, 12:54
beg yours' ??????
4 dead now any body got anythig to say on the 269d (333).or wait for more to die.
Looks like this mashine has killed again in Mexico. anyone care??
flite idol
17th Jun 2006, 13:42
Well............
he did not tell us 4 dead now.
but it seems most of you only care about #1 and I dont give a sahit. wake up...
yowie
17th Jun 2006, 13:51
Same thread on rotor nuts,firefighting chopper crash,do you know something about this particular chopper or operation that we all should be alerted to?
sure bet to die are u interested? garented
Whirlygig
17th Jun 2006, 13:58
ampk,
Would you care to elaborate? And what's your agenda?
Cheers
Whirls
1 dead Botswana
3 dead Mexico
333 fire death
want to talk now.
widgeon
17th Jun 2006, 14:36
ewe now it rally pisses me of wen fawkes right stuff end doughnut ewes a smell chucker !!
Whirlygig
17th Jun 2006, 14:39
ampk,
that's not what I meant by "elaborate", I meant would you care to post the details including AAIB (or the countries' equivalents) findings.
As for "want to talk now" .... not really but then I have nothing I wish to get off my chest. Sounds like you do though so why don't you tell us what your particular beef is because at the moment it sounds to be as if you bear a grudge against one particular aircraft.
So far, all you have told us is about two accidents; no dates, no other particulars (eg. no. passengers, nature of flight, etc). How are we meant to take your posts seriously if you cannot give us the information that is required in order to form an educated opinion?
If English is not your first language, we'd make allowances of course.
Cheers
Whirls
vaqueroaero
17th Jun 2006, 15:08
ampk,
Do you have a similar problem with the R22, R44, B206, H500 and every other type of helicopter that is manufactured? People die in those also. Please expand on what you specifically see as the problem.
chuteless
17th Jun 2006, 15:46
Got about 7-800 hrs 333 no problems so far
good machine handles well
would make an excellent commercial training aircraft
Chuteless
Spodman
17th Jun 2006, 15:48
You seem a bit obsessed. Most of your 39-odd posts (click on his name and look at "all posts by ampk") are bagging this unexceptional machine in a variety of fora. I sympathise with the loss of your mate, but even you attribute it (in one of your posts) to him forgetting to put the fuel cap on.
It wasn't the helicopter, get over it.
People do die in helicopters every so often even without the hazards of mobile phones & missusses, they are profoundly unnatural machines.
Mama Mangrove
17th Jun 2006, 15:49
ampk
You appear to be a nuiscance poster who has nothing to say about 2 accidents. Are you alleging some sort of cover up? If so, speak out and say what you mean as nobody seems to have the faintest what you're on about so far despite your posting something similar on all the forums. Can you also reply in English so we know what you're saying?
Spodman
17th Jun 2006, 15:53
You seem a bit obsessed. Most of your 39-odd posts (click on his name and look at "all posts by ampk") are bagging this unexceptional machine in a variety of fora. I sympathise with the loss of your mate, but even you attribute it (in one of your posts) to him forgetting to put the fuel cap on.
It wasn't the helicopter, get over it.
People do die in helicopters every so often even without the hazards of mobile phones & missusses, they are profoundly unnatural machines.
Spodman
17th Jun 2006, 15:57
My intensive research over the last 32 seconds reveal TX407 is an additive to soy sauce. Considering what soy sauce is generally sprinkled onto it would be fair to assume it had killed millions, not just 4. Do you have a point or are you bad-mouthing inoffensive helicopters again?
Spodman
17th Jun 2006, 15:58
You seem a bit obsessed. Most of your 39-odd posts (click on his name and look at "all posts by ampk") are bagging this unexceptional machine in a variety of fora. I sympathise with the loss of your mate, but even you attribute it (in one of your posts) to him forgetting to put the fuel cap on.
It wasn't the helicopter, get over it.
People do die in helicopters every so often even without the hazards of mobile phones & missusses, they are profoundly unnatural machines.
Flingwing207
17th Jun 2006, 16:00
Any ****zer guys tell me this mashine safe (333) or shall the toll continue.OK - the machine is safe. Not all pilots are, so the toll continues. Now go away.
Spodman
17th Jun 2006, 16:00
You seem a bit obsessed. Most of your 39-odd posts (click on his name and look at "all posts by ampk") are bagging this unexceptional machine in a variety of fora. I sympathise with the loss of your mate, but even you attribute it (in one of your posts) to him forgetting to put the fuel cap on.
It wasn't the helicopter, get over it.
People do die in helicopters every so often even without the hazards of mobile phones & missusses, they are profoundly unnatural machines.
r44driver
17th Jun 2006, 16:03
ampk
You are coming across as a total psycho weirdo.
I think you'll find that if you make a rational post outlining your issues, you will probably get some good opinions about whatever it is you have a problem with.
Spodman
17th Jun 2006, 16:05
You seem a bit obsessed. Most of your 39-odd posts (click on his name and look at "all posts by ampk") are bagging this unexceptional machine in a variety of fora. I sympathise with the loss of your mate, but even you attribute it (in one of your posts) to him forgetting to put the fuel cap on.
It wasn't the helicopter, get over it.
People do die in helicopters every so often even without the hazards of mobile phones & missusses, they are profoundly unnatural machines.
Flingwing207
17th Jun 2006, 16:15
....and for the record, these are the only accident reports I could find for the 269D series helicopters (I've omitted the "pilot flew aircraft into ground" reports):
====================
DFW06WA147
On May 30, 2006, at 1030 central daylight time, a single-engine Schweizer 269D helicopter, Mexican registration XC-LJU, was destroyed upon impact with terrain under unknown circumstances near Ciudad Juarez, State of Chihuahua, in the Republic of Mexico. The commercial pilot and his two passengers were fatally injured. The turbine powered helicopter, serial number 0055A, was owned and operated by the Government of Mexico. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed for the local flight at the time of the accident. The flight originated from Ciudad Juarez at time unknown.
Local law enforcement personnel, who responded to the accident site, reported the accident site was located outside an industrial area in the outskirts of the city. A post-impact fire was reported to have consumed most of the airframe. The remains of the helicopter were transported to a secured location for further examination.
The investigation is under the jurisdiction and control of the Government of the Republic of Mexico. Any further information may be obtained from:
Secretaria de Comunicaciones y Transportes
Direccion General de Aeronautica Civil (DGAC)
Providencia 807, Cuarto Piso
Colonia del Valle, Codigo Postal 03100
Mexico, D.F.
This report is for informational purposes only and contains only information released by, or obtained from the DGAC of the Republic of Mexico.
=====================================
On March 28, 2005, about 2030 Atlantic standard time, a Schweizer 269D helicopter, N4767, registered to and operated by a private individual, as a Title 14 CFR Part 91 personal flight, crashed in the Atlantic Ocean under unknown circumstances while en route from La Romana Airport, La Romana, Dominican Republic, to Isla Grande Airport, San Juan, Puerto Rico. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and an instrument flight rules flight plan was filed. The pilot received fatal injuries, and the helicopter was destroyed. The flight originated in La Romana, Dominican Republic, the same day, about 1850.
According to an official with the U.S. Coast Guard, at 2240, the Coast Guard received initial notification from Dominican Republic air traffic control personnel, informing of a helicopter which was overdue. The official further stated that the pilot had last been in radio communications contact with the Las Americas Air Traffic Control Tower, Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic, at 2021, at which time, the helicopter was about 60 nautical miles west of Borinquen, Puerto Rico, and no emergency radio communications had been received. The Coast Guard official said that in response to the notification, Coast Guard Sector San Juan, initiated searches and ramp checks at the airports in Mayaguez, Borinquen, as well as at the San Juan International Airport, all with negative results.
On March 29, 2005, Coast Guard search and rescue assets discovered a small amount of floating debris believed to be associated with the pilot and subject helicopter, in geographic position 18 degrees 31 minutes North latitude, 067 degrees 56 minutes West longitude. On April 19, 2005, the pilot's son positively identified the items the Coast Guard recovered from the surface of the Atlantic Ocean, as belonging to his father.
The NTSB did not obtain the accident pilots' records, and information obtained from the FAA showed that the pilot held an FAA private pilot certificate, with a rotorcraft-helicopter rating. According to the information, the pilot had not attained an instrument rating, and he held an FAA third-class medical certificate, issued on August 10, 2004, with the limitation that he must possess spectacles for near vision. At the time of his medical examination he reported having accumulated 1,290 total hours of flight experience, of which 45 hours had been accumulated within the past 6 months.
A copy of the accident helicopter's maintenance records were obtained from the repair station which maintained the helicopter, and the records indicated that it had last been given an annual inspection on May 7, 2004. At the time of the annual inspection the helicopter had accumulated a total of 146.7 flight hours. It had also been given an a 25 hour inspection on December 30, 2004, at which time it had accumulated a total flight time of 226.1 flight hours since new.
=====================================
Accident occurred Thursday, February 19, 2004 in San Antonio, TX
Probable Cause Approval Date: 12/3/2004
Aircraft: Schweizer 269D, registration: N255TP
Injuries: 2 Minor.
The 493-hour pilot reported that approximately 5 minutes after departure, he noticed a "slight change in engine noise." Subsequently, he heard a "bang," followed by an aural engine warning horn, and a loss of engine power. The pilot initiated an autorotation, and during the autorotation, the helicopter impacted power lines, landed hard on a parking lot surface and came to rest upright. A witness located adjacent to the helicopter's flight path reported hearing a "loud backfire" followed by subsequent white smoke coming from the helicopter. Review of the aircraft maintenance records revealed the engine was overhauled approximately 295 hours prior to the accident. During the engine overhaul, the impeller travel (bump clearance) was measured to be approximately .010 inches. During the engine teardown examination, prior to the removal of the compressor rotor from the rear support, the impeller travel (bump clearance) was measured to be approximately 0.021 inches. The third, fifth, and sixth stage vane assemblies were bent in the direction of rotation. Corresponding damage was observed on the trailing edges of the blades on the adjacent forward compressor rotors. Fretting and score marks noted on the compressor assembly components were consistent with axial movement at the compressor assembly resulting in contact between the compressor blades and vanes, and a subsequent compressor stall and loss of engine power.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
The loss of engine power due to the axial movement of the compressor rotor blades contacting the compressor vanes resulting in a subsequent compressor stall. A contributing factor was the improper assembly of the compressor section during the engine overhaul by unknown maintenance personnel.
=======================================
The pilot made a forced landing following a loss of engine power after takeoff. The 4,950-hour pilot reported that the aircraft was in a climb at 75 feet AGL, an airspeed of 40-50 knots, and approximately 200 feet south of the takeoff point, when the engine lost power. The pilot executed an autorotation straight ahead and landed. Examination of the engine revealed no damage in the gearbox, but significant thermal distress to several turbine components. The compressor rotated freely and the N1 and N2 sides of the accessory gearbox rotated freely. The compressor and accessory gearbox were not opened. The first stage nozzle shield appeared normal. The first stage nozzle exhibited heat distress on vanes. The first stage turbine wheel exhibited heat distress to all blades; approximately 40-50 percent of the airfoil burned away. The second stage turbine wheel exhibited heat distress to approximately 1/3 of the blades; approximately 30 percent of the airfoil burned away. The third and fourth stage turbine wheels and nozzles appeared normal. The turbine to compressor coupling exhibited rotational marks on the compressor end. The fuel control unit and power turbine governor were tested, and no anomalies were noted.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
The loss of engine power as a result of the pilot's exceedence of the engine's temperature limits, resulting in the melting of blades on the first and second stage turbine wheels. A contributing factor was the lack of suitable terrain for the forced landing.
========================
407TX
19th Jun 2006, 01:00
On January 22, 2002, at 0547 UTC, a Schweitzer 333 helicopter, Botswana registration A2-HDB, was destroyed by fire on impact with terrain within minutes of the flight at Sir Seretse Khama Airport, Gaborone. The helicopter, on a local solo flight, took off with a full load of fuel in the eastern direction when it subsequently crashed some 600m from lift off point. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed that morning and no flight plan had been filed for the local solo flight.
According to eyewitnesses, the helicopter was warming up when he appeared on the scene some 25-m away from the lift off point. He reported that the engine was running normally during warm up for about 5 minutes, and more power was applied until the helicopter lifted off and cleared the ground by approximately 1 foot when it slightly rolled to the left spilling some fluid which he believed to be fuel from a vent line. About 30 seconds later, the witness saw another puff of fluid come from the helicopter, but this time a fine large mist cloud. Within few seconds another large puff of fluid mist came from the helicopter and almost instantly caught fire. The fire appeared to start from port lower half, aft of the cabin area and the whole aft under section of the helicopter through to almost the tail rotor. The witness further reported that flames were noticed coming from the side, what appeared to be out of the exhaust. At this point in time, the witness heard engine change sound from what seemed to be a short increase to almost a dead cut. The helicopter was subsequently observed going down and bursting into a fireball almost immediately. Numerous other witnesses reported unusual maneuvers as well as a very loud banging sound midway the flight path.
The engine is under further examination.
The investigation is under the jurisdiction and control of the Aircraft Accident Investigation Unit of the Director of Civil Aviation, Botswana. Any further information may be obtained from:
Botswana Department of Civil Aviation
IIC Wayne Mlazie
P.O. Box 250
Gaborone
Botswana
Telephone:
Telex: 2522 DCAHQ BD
Telegrams: AVIATION
Fax: 353709
303348
Reference: AIG 3/01/02 I
Yep,
I think that I may be the only eye witness to it.
I was hoping to find more but not as yet.
The 269D or known and sold as the 333 is the same thing.
However all other 269's are piston the 333 is the first turbine and has been approved under the 269 type so as to get passed the new requirements to get a NEW TYPE approved hence 333 is not a type just a model allthough it has no resembilance to the original.
The fuel cap is located directly above the partical seperator.
How many pilots do you know that have left the fuel cap off.
In this case you die...
Even if the cap is on but not latched, or I would say the O'ring leaks enough.
your flight will only last about 1 minute and you will die.
Yes I think you should know about something what happens now....?
How do I get ****zer to do a flight test with no cap??? AND YOU are welcome to come if you think it is SAFE or would be happy to be a nieve paying PAX. are YOU.
Better still try it ure self. IF YOU DOUBT ME.
SAFE MY ARSE....
Mama Mangrove
19th Jun 2006, 21:13
ampk,
Exactly what is your point? You still come over as some kind of obsessive freak who is incapable of spelling or threading together 3 words to make a sentence. Many models of helicopter bear little resemblance to the original yet do not require type approval.. Many helicopters would not be safe with the fuel cap left off - that's why it should be checked by the pilot (or a member of the crew if more than single pilot) after every refuelling. New helicopters often have accidents, unfortunately, because flight testing rarely covers everything which could conceivably happen. You only have to look at the record of such old favourites as the S61 and S76 to see how design features had to be changed as the result of fatal accidents. As said already, if you have something to say, or an allegation to make, could you try and express yourself in a manner which we can understand (even if it is mis-spelt) and without referring to your rear passage?
mama mangrove,
no,
YOU have an attitude (of I am best). I do not like.
My info is not for people like you,
only them that cant afford your supirior education.
All the best, guess you will live longer than me.
CHEERS
IntheTin
22nd Jun 2006, 17:20
Is that fruitcake I can smell.........:confused:
Mama Mangrove
22nd Jun 2006, 18:53
ampk,
Then exactly who is your (almost total lack of) information for? You haven't actually given much of any kind of information. Education doesn't have to be particularly high to be able to read a dictionary or use a spell checker! Education where I was raised, just as in the country you proclaim to be from on your user name panel, was free and most commercial pilot training programmes do require a modicum of education. My education was just a normal average education and was entirely funded by the State. I have no idea how my longevity will compare with yours. I survived nearly 50 years as a pilot in some fairly dodgy places, but in aviation luck is as important as skill in surviving.
You have still added nothing to what you've already tried to imply. If you do have hard facts which could be material to the outcome of an accident investigation which is obviously dragging on, then present them to the authorities as well as the readers of this forum so something can be done. Carrying on as you are will achieve nothing - except possibly make you feel better.
InTheTin,
Finest Dundee fruit cake with added raisins and possibly just a dash of whisky possibly?
IntheTin
22nd Jun 2006, 23:01
Mama Mangrove.
Sounds like a plan, although I think you forgot the nuts. Perhaps AMPK can supply them! ;)