RAF Fire Service

[Mr Wippy]

Can someone please explain to me why RAF Fire Crews are not allowed to respond to callouts on their respective married quarter patches?

Are we talking budget constraints? or is a a legal matter. Either way its an absolute disgrace that our personnel aren't afforded the maximum level of safety. Surely this can't be right? can it??

[Rev I. Tin]

Oh I dunno. Akrotiri asked 2 Gp permission to release the crash crews (and therefore reduced the airfield to Black) only this week to fight a bush fire threatening the MQs there.

Arrangements were made by ASCOT to divert the only aircraft it affected, but it worked out good in the end and the aircraft operated to itinerary (probably unaware they were ever affected).

And Lyneham ATC Supervisor has recently phoned ASCOT seeking release of Crash Crews to fight local non-aviation fires with aircraft in the circuit. Authority was granted.

What is your source? Local orders?
I am assuming you don't live at Halton or Cosford where I doubt the duty fire bucket would have much effect on your MQ?

Bless the Crash Cat

[Roadster280]

Because they would not be able to respond to their assigned task, presumably as airfield crash.

Exactly that happened at RAF Upavon in 1992. Although not a flying station, we had a fire section to cover SPTA. When there was a fire in the HQ 1 Gp building, the civvies (part timers) had to turn out from Pewsey, driving past the fire section on the way past the guardroom!

Even worse, in our hangar (shared with MT), there were half a dozen TACR Range Rover things whcih I'm sure would have dealt with the minor fire in the HQ.

It does make some sense. "Sorry, crew died in the post-crash fire, because fire crews were busy putting out a chip pan fire". On the other hand "Little Johnny perishes in MQ blaze while RAF firemen stood idly by on the offchance of a crash" doesnt sit well either.

I dont think there'll be any winners here.

[Mr Wippy]

basically there was a fire in a MQ last night at a large airbase in southern england. The RAF crews were 'unavailable' and the fire was left to worsen for 20 minutes until civilian fire crews arrived. I have never in my life witnessed such a ferocious fire, which has devastated the house. And it just seems like a serious loss of life awaiting to happen. Is this cost cutting gone too far?

Im absolutely fuming about it.

[Rev I. Tin]

Have you identified where in the chain it broke? Who said the crews were unavailable?

MOD operator, ATC Supervisor, SDO or Crew Commander etc?

Have you approached OC Ops Wg for an explanation or voiced your concerns?

Pleased that no one was hurt.

Bless

[Mr Wippy]

Have you identified where in the chain it broke? Who said the crews were unavailable?
MOD operator, ATC Supervisor, SDO or Crew Commander etc?
Have you approached OC Ops Wg for an explanation or voiced your concerns?
Pleased that no one was hurt.
Bless

not too sure, as it wasn't me who tried the RAF crews. I think it was the RAFP who said the RAF crews couldn't turn up. I presume they made the call.

[Rev I. Tin]

Whilst I concur it is a disgrace you all watched someones house burn down whilst the fire section were improving their volleyball skills, can you at least find out exactly what happened and who was told what to whom?

Not taking the p*ss but if you are 'not too sure', and 'you think it was', I am sure an accurate account of what actually went on would aid us as how to comment.

Bless

[South Bound]

Had a brief from our firemen the other day and they advised that after dialling 999 and requesting the civvie guys (if not on strike, clearly), one should always ring the stn emergency number and they would respond if they were able/permitted to do so.

[Impiger]

There's something not quite right in this tale of woe. At a not so secret Scottish base where they play lots of golf there was a fire in the quarters and the stn Crews were there in double quick time even though we were on Q, MEDA and routine flying.

Need to check all the facts before sounding off methinks.

[FJJP]

On a flying base, fire crews belong to OC Ops. If someone orders the fire crews to attend a domestic, it could black the field. An RAF Policeman calling the fire section isn't going to elicit a response; however, someone who realises the consequences of lowering the crash cat will be able to [eg, in the ops chain of command].

Although not directly related, a few years ago, at a base belonging to bona up/down/backwards/fast/pointy things, Paddy and Mick out of idle curiousity used a JCB to break open a pipe, which unfortunately turned out to be a major gas main. A large cloud of gas formed [for 'twas summer and winds light and variable with a gentle drift towards ATC and MQs].

In the absence of OC Ops and Stn Cdr [both flying] and the SATCO [leave], an ops officer [Knackered Old Aviator - KoA] took the initiative and ordered the evactuation of several buildings on the airfield, inc ATC. D&D were asked to broadcast an 'airfield black' on guard and a fair number of pointy things had to divert. An exclusion zone of 2nm and 2000ft was also declared. All on the say-so of a base non-exec.

Bona-pointy-thing mates were V. unhappy and out to hang/draw/quarter KoA for disturbing their exciting-bona-fast-pointy-thing lives; however, when the dust settled and the situation resolved when the gas board cut the gas supplies to render area safe, Station Execs roundly patted KoA for initiative, etc.

The point to the story is that no-one questioned the seasoned KoA, for they knew of his background and that he would have been aware of the consequences of his actions. They accepted his judgement that there would be a massive amount of disruption to the base and the flypro, but also accepted that he wouldn't have done it if it wasn't absolutely necessary.

It's a question of degree, really. Having spent many, many years in MQs on flying bases, I too, often wondered why civi crews attended domestics rather than RAF crews in sight of a fire. However, they WILL attend, provided the order comes from the right place [same for car and civi ac crashes near to base - both have been done in recent years].

As Rev. I Tin says - the whole story needs to be told before you can append valid comment about this particular incident.