CX + KA Merge Theories (And sh!tstirs)

[jtr]

I will kick it off. - Not to be taken too seriously...

All the KA freighters go to CX

J Mac goes to KA to head up the minibus Fleet

330's come under the management of CX

EVERYONE gets new FCOMs which are amended weekly for the next 5 years due SOP conflicts

KA house becomes an accomodation block for the 1500 Air China pilots they bring in for "training"

Seniority lists merged over 3 years in a complex process based on DOJ
(needing much union negotiation to distract from payrise issues)

S/O's are sent to KA for F/O upgrade (and found to be not up to the required standard)

Another payscale or two somehow evolves

[tifters]

Good post.
I think CX would be happy with "Training" Air China crew, just as they do with the flighties...earning $5000 per month and sharing a room in the CX Gold Coast Mansion. Of course this is only for the short term, which is what the flighties got told 18 months ago!!!!!!!!!
KA to become lcc for cx, single aisle that is. 330s to cx for China runs.
Crew intergration, the good ol Qantas and Australian "Y" system that noone seemed happy with. I know a few KA guys happy to make beds in the 744 as long as they keep the housing!!! They want to get to renew their bonds with their families......selfish buggers that they are!!;)

[Elroy Jettson]

To be read with the same grain of salt...

The brands are clearly worth more separate, or CX would have just ordered a few more 330s and a fist full of narrow bodies.

All CX 330 Asia Pacific regional flying to progressively go to KA because they can do it cheaper, and they do it on a China Airlines wet lease style arrangement, the jets are left in CX livery so as not to confuse SLF. CX 330 crews move over to the 777 fleet, to cover the 30 plus orders there, and the 748 (yet to be announced) thus aleviating the need for direct entry FOs on the pax fleet. Dragon house to be expanded to accomodate more simulators to cope with the increase in 330training, as they are hiring the bulk of the new hires in the harbour.

CX to concentrate on long and ultra longhaul. Business as usual for them, however, they are now making money on the lucrative mainland routes without even having to do any of the flying. Management very happy.

KA given the right to fly internationally out of mainland cities to basically anywhere on the globe. CX do this under the KA banner because it is more pallatable to the mainland government, and again, KA can do it cheaper.

The lists are kept separate for as long as the management can resist, they wait until everyone on the "junior" list has had a crack at command, and they then inter lever the lists in accordance with the legal preceedence set by the merger of the Qantas Australian Airlines (TAA) agreement. From there forward, new hires go to the bottom of the merged list.

Freighters to become Shenzen based so they can pay even less money...:hmm:

[Freehills]

All the P&W freighters to newco in SHA, RR to CX

Seniority lists merged on the basis of games of "rock paper scissors"

Management appointments decided on games of "rock paper scissors"

Minibus to Hanoi & Davao, CX A330 to Busan & Kaoshiung

All engineering to HAECO. all food to CPCS. TAECO & AMECO to merge

HAS/HIAS to merge and take over all airport functions

CITIC to buy HKR (Disco Bay) and become landlord of choice.

SOP to move to metres, not feet.

[Shot Nancy]

1. Ah, the screaming skull.

2. Interesting times, a CX FO Yr1 (about 4 years in company) gets paid less than an KA FO Yr1 (about 3 months in company) CX Capt pay is way ahead but takes 10 years to get there, so we will see which pilot group expands.

3. Obvious savings in amalgamating freight ops, even though there is no money in freight.

4. Bye, bye TW.

5. inter lever the lists in accordance with the legal preceedence set by the merger of the Qantas Australian Airlines (TAA) agreement

Legal precedence in HKG? That would be a 1st.

[tifters]

Of course all CoS's amalgamated but to the lowest common denominator. So that would mean, F.O on CX scale till it meets up then reverts to KA scale when it becomes cheaper!! aagghh bugger that, all on Freighter scale because its in all our best interests to be on a "Unified Pay Scale"!!!!!!
Absirdistan crew to operate wet leased KA 320s, housing at a new joint CX/Ka housing venture at Lo Wu.
PC to get another 10 month bonus!! CX crew to get another thank you e mail!! Everyones a winner!!!!
Rock Paper scissors....love it!!!!:)

[Fly747]

My biggest concern is flap or flaps.

[jtr]

sub·sid·i·ar·y ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sb-sd-r) adj.

Serving to assist or supplement; auxiliary.
Secondary in importance; subordinate.
Of, relating to, or of the nature of a subsidy.

Maybe Paper Scissors Rock won't be needed, subordinates just join the back of the line...

[Elroy Jettson]

JTR, rather than just join the back of your line, they may just form a new line of their own, and bypass the "old line", if the "old line" gets "uneconomical". Make no mistake, this should be viewed as a very real industrial threat, or at the very least, a "negative wage pressure" from your "subordinates". Industrially, it is as significant as the "old line" voting in a B csale for it's subordinates.

Do you see Jetstar and Australian Airlines "Serving to Assist" Qantas mainline terms and conditions? :confused: What protections do you have against this happening in the Harbour? :confused:

[jtr]

All good points Elroy. Perhaps the title of this thread should have been annotated with "(And sh!tstirs)"???

If you can't take the joke you shouldn't have joined the company.

Bottom line is they can and will do what ever they want to us. At least we can have a laugh about it can't we?

[Elroy Jettson]

Absolutely right JTR, think i'll take the rest of the night off! :)

[And Then]

CX S/O's are offered "Time in KA" to build on limited skills sets and prepare for F/O upgrades. "Time in KA" is on CX S/O pay rates. :}

[boxjockey]

Ok, I know all of you salties are having your laughs at this, but on a more serious note, how do you think this will affect a new-joiner DESO. That's what I will be at the end of this year. I'm hoping at some point to get back to the freighter side in the states eventually, after a good stay in the harbour. Do you guys really think there is the possibility of CX staff being sent to fly on the KA fleet? Not that flying for KA is bad, that's just not my preference.

Cheers,

Box

[Dan Winterland]

No. I can't sse the beancounters authorising a long and costly coversion course on a new type just for the S/O to get a few landings. The two companys will operate separately, for at least 6 years anyway.

[HKG Phooey]

KA get all the crappy CX routes.... overnights in all of the crappy places.... dont really want to name them but we all know what they are.

Oh and in 2 weeks time when CX are operating all the PVG routes they sell KA for a couple of hundered bucks, they wont care then because they have what they want. Let's face it what do they want with a load more payscales etc.....

:cool:

[boofta]

Humbly, I offer that the only short term amalgamation will be freighters.
Both Air China Cargo and Dragon have not been able to recruit much in
the way of pilots due to the ****e they have offered. Yet both have a
bunch of aircraft coming. So, they will merge their freighters with Cathay
to get their respective operations up and running.
The end result is that FINALLY the scumbag wages offered will rise to
the Cathay freighter rates. This is actually a significant watershed.
The bottom line salary, 747-400 in Asia will now be Cathay Freighters.
The wheel is turning, albeit just creaking noises, but pilot salaries are
finally rising.
IS THAT A BEAD OF SWEAT I SEE ON AIRLINE MANAGEMENT'S FOREHEAD!

[Glass Half Empty]

And CX freighter guys were complaining about their salaries...................but!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dixi Normus]

So with the addition of the KA guys, CX got their new "C" scale..................

[And Then]

To address poor CX upgrade success on the Airbus, KA takes over the Airbus training within the group. The pass rate worsens, so KA takes over recruitment. :ok:

[hog tied]

Imagine the amalgamation of the line crews, let alone the C&T staff. They won't pass each other's checkrides. Everyone will be on probationary notice soon, with the threat of a probationary line check administered by the other team!:eek:

[tifters]

KA F.Os are to get first "outside" dibs at the new expanded Aus base with vastly improved conditions than are in place now, all CX S.Os up graded to F.Os in CX and KA, S.O position eliminated. Both training depts amalgamated with a new mandate, pass everyone who deserves to pass, i.e no more star chambers and Check Capts to get final nod!(4 bars in pocket ready to hand out at blocks on!) (Possible savings of around $6Billion HKD per year)
DPA and AoA to amalgamate and control rostering and monitor sick rates/absentees within, with final process with company. Union to have control over Flight Attendant interview process, based in Bangkok or Manila.....
A-scale eliminated, a "Unified pay scale" which is 10% more than current B-scale. An extra 5% on top of that too, instead of profit share (who wants to listen to their B.S excuses anymore anyway!!)
Age 60 progressively intro'd.
Current bypass crew to stay on current crap salary. Termination at end of 1 year.
Rock, paper scissors to remain in place for seniority list amalgamation.
Management to have a performance graph to monitor their daily wastage of monies, ie just like our fuel order graphs.;)

[BusyB]

I like it Tifters. Stand for President!:D

[kenfoggo]

Now that Dragonair is 100 per cent owned by Cathay, does this mean that Cathay simultaneously recognises two different Pilots Associations? The AOA and the DPA?

Does this mean that pilots who are thoroughly disillusioned with the AOA have a viable alternative to join which is recognised by Cathay?