hypothetical scenario

[Rick Storm]

Hi Guys/gals
Pub chat the other night...Spit v tornado no AAM just cannon/MG. I opted for the Spit mainly for manoeuvrability, but doubts on airframe survibability.
Interested in your replies.

Dave

[Pontius Navigator]

At a guess the Spit would not be able to hold a firing solution. If the F3 took the Spit as a ground target and simply blew through . . .

Then there is the same argument used by Vulcan/Lightning or Fishbed. Whose fuel runs out first and who has enough fuel to complete the mission.

As the F3 can engage and disengage at will but the Spit would have to turn and fight then the balance has to be F3.

[stickmonkeytamer]

On previous experience the Spitfire must win- a Tonka has yet to shoot anything down!!! ;) SMT

[Dr Jekyll]

But suppose the Spitfire side spent the money they saved by not buying a Tornado on more Spitfires? Say 50 Spitfires v 1 Tornado.

[Conan the Librarian]

About 15 or so years ago, the RAF punted a Sptifire/F2 synchronised display which was actually quite interesting to watch as both were in a low speed (obviously) display and I wondered then what a hypothetical match might show.

I also seem to rmember trials being made by the Lightning against the Mustang (or Dart powered Mustang - Piper PA-48?)in the early to mid 60s. I am sure that others here will provide better bumpf than I can, so I will STFU.

Conan

[Pontius Navigator]

But suppose the Spitfire side spent the money they saved by not buying a Tornado on more Spitfires? Say 50 Spitfires v 1 Tornado.

Nah, you would need 3 or 4 F3 to even it up.

Watched one replay of a fur ball - 4 F3 v 16 F16.

Three aircraft were shot down. All F16 survived and no F16 fired a missile.:}

and no one fired a cannon.

[Archimedes]

Air Fighting Development Squadron Lightning vs Spit XIX (now one of the BBMF Spits, IIRC). The trials were at the time of the Confrontation to see how the Lightning could deal with a piston-engined opponent such as the Indonesian AF's P-51s.

The trials revealed that as long as the Lightning kept its speed up, it would always win. IIRC, engaging the Spit from below while the Lightning was in a high speed climb was regarded as the best solution (if it was possible to engage from lower altitude), and where not possible a high-speed attack and an avoidance of getting into a turning fight gave the Lightning the advantage. I suspect one of the forum's Lightning chaps will know for sure, though...

[The Helpful Stacker]

hypothetical scenario


I'm glad you pointed that out, I was a little worried some of the RAF's finest were choosing sides in the struggle for the Republic of Lincolnshire.:}

[maxburner]

The Spit / F2 display was excellent. Rick P-E and Andy L-T were in the F2, The Major flew the Spit. Of course, it led to all sorts of jokes, such as '40 years on, same radar.'

[Biggus]

Surely the German experience with Me262s vs piston engined aircraft at the end of WW2 provides a good answer to this question. I seem to remember that as long as the Me262 kept it's speed/energy up it was relativitly invulnerable to piston engined fighters (no doubt somebody will find an exception!!!). It is not in the jet's interest to 'mix it' in the classic sense!

[GeeRam]

Surely the German experience with Me262s vs piston engined aircraft at the end of WW2 provides a good answer to this question. I seem to remember that as long as the Me262 kept it's speed/energy up it was relativitly invulnerable to piston engined fighters (no doubt somebody will find an exception!!!).

Pretty much true on a 1 vs. 1, (although there were numerous occasions when 262's got caught at altitude, usually by being attacjed en masse, Nowotny's demise being an example) which is why the USAAF took to patrolling the 262 bases at low level to catch them on take off and landing when the 262 was at it's most vunerable.

[Confucius]

I'm glad you pointed that out, I was a little worried some of the RAF's finest were choosing sides in the struggle for the Republic of Lincolnshire.:}


Lincs. can go to hell.

I'm with the South.

http://www.flagshopinc.com/products/flags/specialty/confederate.gif

Yeeeee haaaaaa

[orca]

If i were the F3 driver (and i'd sooner die...) I'd have a crack at min sep'ing the little tinker whilst beyond the number and seeing if he liked that! failling that use the power to get in the vertical and pounce on him from above - just don't be seen doing it!!

[The Helpful Stacker]

If i were the F3 driver (and i'd sooner die...) I'd have a crack at min sep'ing the little tinker whilst beyond the number and seeing if he liked that! failling that use the power to get in the vertical and pounce on him from above - just don't be seen doing it!!

Lol. Could an F3 climb high enough above a Spitfire (other than one parked on the ground) to have an advantage? Don't they struggle to intercept VC10's for a top up?

[Lima Juliet]

On previous experience the Spitfire must win- a Tonka has yet to shoot anything down!!! SMT

Doesn't a Jindivik count?:8

LJ

PS Stacker how little you know...we have to slow down for tankers...:eek: at their speed the "fin" is nearly falling out of the sky! See you in Block 5 at Mach 2.2 my friend:ok:

PPS Still fancy the Spitty though...

[Roadster280]

Lincs. can go to hell.

I'm with the South.

http://www.flagshopinc.com/products/flags/specialty/confederate.gif

Yeeeee haaaaaa

Faaarking hell, you'll get shot over here for that one. Or dragged behind a pickup!