Colourblind CPL + CFI. how?

[windforce]

Hello everyone,

I've got an important question. Two months ago I went to Gatwick for my class one medical. But after the visit the CAA, unluckily, gave me a class one restricted because coz i had failed the colourvision test.
A certificate like that allows me to fly only in daylight and IMC. NO IFR and NO PUBLIC TRANSPORT. In few words the only think i can do is the flight instructor (which is good, coz I like this job).

But here is my problem: up to now i have the PPL. For the Flight Instructor course, i need the CPL. but for the CPL i need 5 hours at night :{ ... ?!?!?!

I've told about this problem with my FTO and they told me that probabily i can fly those 5 hours for the CPL ONLY AS DUAL WITH AN INSTRUCTOR. However my FTO and me are going to contact the CAA and check carefully....

has anyone an opinion? or anything that can help me?

cheers mate for you time and help! :ok:

wf

[Martin1234]

Catch 22, eh?

So you can't fly at night even if the flight is private, I assume?

Are you able to obtain an FAA medical which doesn't restrict you to day flying only? In that case, get such medical and find an FAA instructor that will endorse you for solo night flying. Find an N-reg aircraft and do the hours. Voila!

Rumours say that Australia isn't very strict regarding colour blindless but there aren't many Aussie registered aircraft/instructors in the UK as opposed to the US equivalent. Also, are you able to be sent solo night under the "UK NPPL" scheme? Those medical requirements are less strict.

Nevertheless, wouldn't the CAA be able to issue you with a CPL that is restricted to day only in the same way as the medical?

[umbongo]

the nppl cant be used at night. you cant add any ratings to the basic licence.

the best thing to do is talk to the caa. getting an american licence just to do do a useless night rating seems like a bit of a waste of time. that also assumes the faa will give you an unrestricted american medical (you would probably be asked to declare previous failed medical examinations on their application form etc) - but its true to say that their limits on colour blindness and/or their methods of testing it may be different, so it could be a last ditch way around the problem, you could then do the solo night flying on the faa ticket...

you dont need a class one for a night rating, only a class two - did you have an unrestricted class two before?? or did the problem with the class one restrict the class two also?

talk to the caa. hope you can work something out, good luck to you.

[windforce]

Thanks guys for your replies. :)

Well, the problem is that CAA told me that I am colourblind (which is not true in my opinon) because i've failed the Ishihara test (4 mistakes/misreadings) and the lanterns (again 4 mistakes) :{

This means that I have a restricted class one medical... unluckily, also the class two has the same requirements about colourvison...

but this is not a problem for me. I could become flight instuctor (CAA has told me this) but the problem is how:

_ I need to get the Flight Instructor Certificate -> which requires the CPL -> but CPL requires 5 hours at night (or night rating).

the problem is: how can i get those hours? OK, i can't fly solo at night; but can i fly with an instructor? (if yes, this would be the solution of my problem... but i need to contact and make sure that is possible... unless the CAA gives me a special permission... or something similar... i dont'know)

thanks,
wf

[Martin1234]

you could then do the solo night flying on the faa ticket

It might be sufficient that the instructor sends the student off for solo flying (at night), so you don't need to get the actual certificate. Getting an authorization for solo flying shouldn't be too much of a problem.

[BillieBob]

I need to get the Flight Instructor Certificate -> which requires the CPL No it doesn't (assuming that you mean a JAA FI rating). Neither the night qualification nor the CPL(A) is a pre-requisite for the issue of an FI(A) rating. You will need to pass the theoretical knowledge examinations at CPL level but the licence itself is only necessary if you expect to be remunerated for flight instruction. Since the restrictions on your medical mean that you will not be able to instruct much beyond the basic PPL level, I assume that you are not expecting to make a living from flight instruction.

[scottiedogg]

Since the restrictions on your medical mean that you will not be able to instruct much beyond the basic PPL level, I assume that you are not expecting to make a living from flight instruction.


could still do PPLs, NPPLs, twin instruction/twin ratings, a/c conversions and ground instruction, and possible even teach FI courses.... enough there to keep an instructor busy...

[Martin1234]

..and if he does obtain the CPL, he will be able to teach the CPL course with the exception of night flying, which another instructor could do.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

could still do PPLs, NPPLs, twin instruction/twin ratings, a/c conversions and ground instruction, and possible even teach FI courses.... enough there to keep an instructor busy...
And very well paid......

[windforce]

Hi guys I write down the key point of the letter that CAA sent me when i received my (restricted) class one:

Further to your recent class one medical examination, I note that during your eye examination you were confirmed to have a colour vision deficiency.
[...] On this basis I regret to confirm that you cannot be assessed as fit for an unrestricted JAA class one medical certificate. [...] ... the limitations are: 'flights by day only', 'No public transport operations'. The maximum previliges with this restriction form of class one certification will enable you to be paid flight instructor on UK registred aircraft by daytime only. [...]

[Martin1234]

What about aerial work? Shouldn't that be allowed as well since it's not public transport?

[windforce]

well aerial work could mean a lot of things... such as banner and/or glider towing or aerial photography.... I mean, you cand do stuff like that being paid. (you're not allowed to get paid with only a PPL... well I think so!)
Of course, you can't carry with you fare-paying passengers and/or freight...

However next week I'm going to call CAA and see what can I do. Of course, I will let you know! :ok:

[MrHorgy]

When I did my PPL I did it in the States at Ormond Beach Aviation - did my nite rating as part of it. All I needed to get my FAA medical over there was pee in a cup, get weighed and have my responses checked, etc.. So you should be fine :ok:

Horgy

[pilgrim flyer]

Was in a similar boat.

Get yourself over to the US and get a waiver- got mine by a man in the tower at San Jose fashing the light to the ramp and naming the colour about six times.

Get a US licence not based on your UK/JAA one - I did a CPL, fairly straight forward, not expensive and you never know when it might come in handy.

Do some night ours.

Come back and when you've converted your US CPL to a JAA one (training as required) you will even be allowed to fly at night in a UK registered a/c in the UK. (Though not commercially)

Enjoy, its good fun.

PF

[Martin1234]

well aerial work could mean a lot of things... such as banner and/or glider towing or aerial photography.... I mean, you cand do stuff like that being paid. (you're not allowed to get paid with only a PPL... well I think so!)

I meant that if you do get your CPL and aerial work is not considered public transport, commercial aerial work day should be allowed even with your limited medical.

[windforce]

I meant that if you do get your CPL and aerial work is not considered public transport, commercial aerial work day should be allowed even with your limited medical.

yes, in this case i think that you'd have any problem... tomorrow i'm going to call the UK CAA... i will let you know :ok:

[JHO]

Havn't yet taken class 1, but in simular situation. Could you please let me know how many different lantern tests there are? I've heard there are two they will use should you fail a first type. Good luck.
Cheers.

[T668BFJ]

I did the lantern tests when I went for my Class 1 medical.
Fisrt one was the holmes wright.
A complicated test done in 2 stages, a protracted daylight type test where they use the lantern to shine combinations of red . green . white lights at you.
Red = Greenish Red
Green = Reddish Green
White = White
You have to get nearly all right and you must make no red / green errors. They will allow red / white and green / white errors to go through sometimes.
You then sit in the dark for 30 mintues for your eyes to adjust then repeat it all in the dark ( harder )


If you fail they have what is called the Baynes lantern test ( your last hope)

The lantern has 5 colours used in aviation.
They actually use true colours and dont try and trip you up with colours on the edge of the spectrum.
(Blue , Green, Red, Yellow ( more mustard really ), white)
Each colour gets shined once and once only.
It shined through a 1 or 2 mm aperature for 1 or 2 seconds, sorry hazy on that bit.
They will not repeat a colour, you must answer it.
Blue, yellow, simple the reason you at that test usually is because your red /green unsafe.
If you get to the end of the test and you realise you saw say green twice !!!! you have failed for definate, chances are the second time you saw green it was green.

A little tip to the test, if you are absolutely positive you know you saw a colour, then forget about it for the rest of the test, if you got it worng you have failed anyway. If you got it right, then you only have a decreasing number of colours left that it could be, so in some ways it gets easier.

I hope that is of help.
I know it is to late for yourself, but this situation highlights what so many people say so frequently to anyone considering starting out.
Advise I was lucky enough to see and take.

"Always if you want it to be a career take you Class 1 Medical before you start spending money to get to the right seat"

Regards