Primary Glider

[Smudger552]

Anyone had any experience of one of these wonderfully dangerous contraptions? We had a Primary Glider at our school...for the uninitiated it as in effect a plank with a seat and wings (fabric) that was launched by your compadres using a large bungee! The sight of my school freinds scattering at I launch for my first flight over the playing fields will remain with me forever!! :ok:

I expect H&S binned them some time ago. :{

Smudger

[TheEvilDiesel]

Oh my God, the infamous "Grasshopper".

Many a happy hour spent whizzing across the playing fields on one of those.

We had a chap who managed to "hop" it over the road into a field, all of us babies then had to go and dismantle it to bring it back.

We were still using it in '83, not sure when they went out of service.

[Dan Winterland]

Yes. I was qualified to fly our school's Grasshopper because I had done one solo in a T31 Kirby Cadet after 23 launches and 1hr 15mins logged. Ten seconds of sheer terror!

[ImageGear]

Dagling?
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=17046
I saw, I looked, I ran away screaming !! :eek:
Imagegear

[Arclite01]

Glide angle 1 in 8

Grasshopper TX1 went out of service in 1986.

Serveral survived the axe until 88 when they were auctioned off at RAF Locking............

Most never flew again as they had been stored outside and the wings had warped one way - and the ailerons had warped another !!!

What a nightmare machine - you have to respect the guys who flew them - No Guts, No Glory !!!!

:ok:

Arc

[A251]

i actually have a share in our schools grasshopper, a small group of us fly it now and then, getting a quick cct out of it now, got about 50 odd launches,
trying to get video footage from the pilots seat next time we use it. its great fun,

[Smudger552]

Seem to remember having to do 12 'slides' with the wing spoilers before being allowed to 'launch'. I got to slide 3 and the spoilers slipped and I got airborne! Managed to keep it straight and level and avoided the Pavillion! Result!

[tmmorris]

One in Hendon museum in the old entrance hall. Our school one is allegedly in a museum in Berlin (anyone actually seen it?)

Tim

[PTR 175]

There is also one gathering dust at RAF Henlow.

[A251]

thats mine, we wash it then fly it, its been out about 10 times so far this year

[TheEvilDiesel]

I think there is one stored in the hangar at 615VGS.

Never got a hop. only slides. Was good fun though.

[NavEx]

Actually I think you'll find it's mine (ours)........... and if it's gathering dust it needs a wash before Friday night. See you there

[henry crun]

We had a Dagling in the club at Andover many moons ago.

On good thermal days when everything else was staying up we would drag it out and have spot landing competitions.
It would barely make 600ft on the winch, and then it would only just make it back to the launch point !

Good fun on a nice summers day, no instruments, so one judged the speed by the feel of the wind on the face and comparing the undersurface of the wing to the horizon to asssess the angle of attack.

[Sedbergh]

There's an airworthy Danish-built 2 seater "primary" called a G2.
I've flown a couple of circuits on the front seat - got video of the whole thing -a view of feet on pedals and then 800' straight down - when I run it on the TV at my club, half the instructors go & hide in a corner.
Best fun I've ever had fully dressed:ok:

[Tim Inder]

Sedbergh, I think that's the one I saw at a vintage glider fly-in at Tibenham a few years ago - as we were helping out with the launching etc we were offered flights in some of the gliders, surprisingly, no takers for the G2! (I went up in a Sedbergh, much more fun than a modern plastic bullet - I think it managed all of 50 knots going straight down!)

Also, there's a Grasshoppper in 611VGS's Hangar too, though I don't know who it belongs to, or indeed if it's airworthy.

[Rocket2]

Bannerdown GC have a privately owned one flying at Keevil. Great fun:ok:

[Sedbergh]

Tim

yes, that's the one - it shows up at all the Vintage Glider Club international rallies - and there's normally a huge queue to fly (on) it!

There used to be a Grasshopper (or maybe it was an SG 38) in the Bicester hangar when the RAFGSA was still based there. It had an altimeter and ASI fitted (cheat!) but I never actually saw it flown.

I flew a Hols der Teufel primary at the VGC rally in Germany last year but it had a "go faster" nacelle round the pilot so you didn't get the same open-air effect (The owner soared it to over 1000 metres off a winch launch one day!)

But the T21 is still my favourite - but 'kin cold at 5000'

[TD&H]

Tim
But the T21 is still my favourite - but 'kin cold at 5000'
Can you imagine how cold Derek Piggott and his ATC cadet felt like at 17,000' in cloud in the venerable Barge?
Many a happy day in the Barge and Mark III, but didn't get to fly the primary left at the back of the GS hangar (that's when they were Gliding Schools, long before the change to Volunteer and Squadron).
Certainly remember a blue warm day with nothing soaring, so was dressed only in T-shirt and shorts, then the thermals started, and by 5000' I did start to feel cold, but still happy as a skylark :ok:

[Rocket2]

There used to be a Grasshopper (or maybe it was an SG 38) in the Bicester hangar when the RAFGSA was still based there. It had an altimeter and ASI fitted (cheat!) but I never actually saw it flown.
Yeh Gods that's going back a bit, it was sold (along with the Fauvel or "Budgie") after Andy Gough died as it was deemed too dangerous for the "modern" winches.
Not sure if it is a myth but someone challenged Andy to give them a free aerotow if they flew the said Primary naked, Andy agreed & promptly towed them to 200 feet on the far side of Bicester town & kept flying a racetrack pattern until the tug's tanks were almost dry (in excess of an hour):D :p I seem to recall that the flight was re-enacted at Bicesters 40th(?) celebrations afew years ago with a more modestly clothed pilot

[Sedbergh]

Rocket

it wasn't that long ago! Maybe 1999 or 2000. Maybe it was privately owned, but it was definitely there, with RAF silver/yellow trainer markings. Fraid Andy Gough was dead long before I started gliding.

I've heard the story about the low (naked) tow over Bicester too! There also used to be a wonderful photo in the Bicester bar of a lass strapped onto a primary. Either the shoulder straps were doing wonders for her bust measurement or she had the most amazing bra.......:)

[Go Smoke]

Hi Dave, not too busy at work then?

A syndicate at Lasham have a grasshopper that they drag out on the occasional evening.
I've had the pleasure of flying it and all I can say is "What a blast"
Great fun and whooping all the way up the launch.
The brief went something along the lines of - "don't fly it slower than 40kts, on landing don't round out until the last minute as she's so draggy she stops flying pretty quick, enjoy it"

GS

[Rocket2]

Sedburgh
There also used to be a wonderful photo in the Bicester bar of a lass strapped onto a primary. Either the shoulder straps were doing wonders for her bust measurement or she had the most amazing bra.......
Yup I remember it - she was a true 60's child at the time & very nice on the eyes.:p
The Primary you mean was owned by "Happy Harry" Chapple & not flown that often, I think it may be the one at Keevil but stand to be corrected as usual:O
The RAFGSA owned Primary that I was reffering to was flown & sold (I recall) as stated, I was lucky enough to fly her off the winch a number of times, not so lucky though to see it being flipped upside down (complete with pilot) when the launch cable that I was attached to in the old Twin Astir had somehow got pulled around the outside of it & the "up slack" was swiftly stopped - pilot Ok (the second time he had crashed upside down ironically!) - Primary repaired.

[chevvron]

At Halton way back in the '60's, we had a Chief Tech who travelled around CCF schools instructing and maintaining their Grasshoppers. He told us a tale of when he visited one school, their own instructor (a schoolteacher as well) complained that the footrest was loose and there was a bit of structure at the back end which flapped about sideways all the time. Amazingly he was serious!

[John Farley]

We had a Dagling in the club at Andover many moons ago.
On good thermal days when everything else was staying up we would drag it out and have spot landing competitions.
It would barely make 600ft on the winch, and then it would only just make it back to the launch point !
Good fun on a nice summers day, no instruments, so one judged the speed by the feel of the wind on the face and comparing the undersurface of the wing to the horizon to asssess the angle of attack.

Quite agree with you Henry. Don't know what the fuss is about. I did an aerotow behind a Chipmunk from Cranwell North around 1961/2 and from 2000ft over the field into wind you could actually do a full 360 deg circuit - albeit you needed to keep it tight. Hanna Reitch and Ann Welch to name but two exponents of the type would turn in their graves at some of the comments here.

[NDB]

Anyone know how to post a pic? Do we need the headmasters permission?

NDB

[reacher]

If you can, please do post a pic as these "gliders" (can you call something that falls with an aspect of 1:8 a glider) I'm most interested.

[Always a Sapper]

There used to be a Grasshopper (or maybe it was an SG 38) in the Bicester hangar when the RAFGSA was still based there. It had an altimeter and ASI fitted (cheat!) but I never actually saw it flown.
Yeh Gods that's going back a bit, it was sold (along with the Fauvel or "Budgie") after Andy Gough died as it was deemed too dangerous for the "modern" winches.
Not sure if it is a myth but someone challenged Andy to give them a free aerotow if they flew the said Primary naked, Andy agreed & promptly towed them to 200 feet on the far side of Bicester town & kept flying a racetrack pattern until the tug's tanks were almost dry (in excess of an hour):D :p I seem to recall that the flight was re-enacted at Bicesters 40th(?) celebrations afew years ago with a more modestly clothed pilot


It was still there in 2004 just before the RAFGSA moved out and the new club moved in

[henry crun]

reacher: look here, SG38, Dagling, Grasshoppper, they are all much the same.
As has been mentioned, for some reason some of them have now been equiped with instruments, I can't think why. http://perso.orange.fr/aircollection/images/preserves/sg38nantes.jpg

[Dan Winterland]

I flew the Bicester primary while on my Instructor course - as most of my course mates did. I took the wimps option and aerotowed to 1500' - very refreshing after a hot summer's day. Those who took the more heroic winch launch had fun trying to get back to the launch point after 700' max. Not so much a 'glider' as a 'plummeter'. The 'primary streak' was an option offered to us, but no one wanted to be towed over Bicester town at 200' completely naked.

We also dragged the AV36 out of the hanger. I got to soar it. It went up like a dream, but the handling was horrid. By heaving back on the stick you could 'flick loop' it. A very lightweight mate of mine got snatched off the groung by an enthusiatic winch driver. At about 300' the cable back released as the pitch got to about 80 degrees, the thing flick looped and he managed to compose himself enough to land staright ahead. He was a gibbering wreck and had to be lifted out of the thing. I seem to remember that a certain CFI who hated the 'Budgie' accidently ran over the wingtip with a tractor before anyone killed themselves in it. Many years later, someone in my PFA strut mentioned he had bought the wreckage of a glider and would I fly it when restored? It turned out to be the dreaded Budgie. The answer was no!

[Rocket2]

Always a Sapper
It was still there in 2004 just before the RAFGSA moved out and the new club moved in
Agreed, I was there to the end (of the GSA's occupancy) too but the "new" job & an impossible treck up & down the ever jammed up A34 means I now fly further south, I assume Harry had bought the Primary when it was sold by the GSA as described earlier
Good Flying to everyone on this thread.
R2

[Sedbergh]

For photos & location of primaries see www.rcawsey.fsnet.co.uk

select "Slingsby production lists" & then "T38 Grasshopper"

Clicking on the registrations in purple will reveal the photo

The link on WZ 795 is worth following too!

[rodthesod]

Flew the Bicester one in the 70's. Aerotow behind very slowly flown Chipmunk to 2000ft then climbed in a gaggle in strong thermal to 5500ft. Then got seriously frightened when I looked down between my legs. Only just made it the 2nm back to the airfield. Only time I ever felt 'vertigo' when flying.
rts
edited to add:
Agree no need for instruments (Bicester a/c had none when I flew it) -wind up your trouser-leg was a good pitot head and you could hear and feel the upper surface flapping as separation occurred close to the stall.

[John Farley]

NDB

Check your PMs

[John Farley]

Courtesy of NDB

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/johnfarley/Grasshopper2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/johnfarley/Grasshopper1.jpg

[EC Does It]

Mr Farley,

Absolutely classic photos. Love the growbag.

Cheers, ECDI.

[HowLongToGo?]

Hey, Wait a minute...those are my feet!
Still, whilst I'm there ladies & gentlemen, perhaps you would care to note how I am effortlessly scanning the instrument panel, my eye's picking up the first hint of disturbance etc etc. Never miss a teaching opportunity. You just can't teach this kind of thing!
PS Do I get an apperance fee?

[wrecker]

Henry crun

I remember that Dagling, Bill Longley used to display it at station air days with thunder flashes and smoke canisters tied to it. I believe once he was aero-towed across the channel in (on) it. I can't remember what that was to celebrate.

[Arclite01]

It was Derek Piggott who towed across the channel as part of the Daily Express London to Paris air race.

It's in is book 'Delta Papa' - what a great read that is.............


Arc