6 months to plan a long trip?

[Confabulous]

After reading a trip article somewhere, the final piece of advice was 'Take at least 6 months to plan the trip'. Granted, the flight was for two aircraft going from the UK to Spitzbergen/Svalbard and back, but SIX MONTHS? I'm a humble student pilot at the moment, but this seems ridiculous. I'm not saying it should be planned in a day, or even a week, but two weeks to a month seems more reasonable. Are they waiting for the aircraft to rust?

I know you need to plan with all due diligence, and you'll need immersion suits, current weather & GPS updates, maintenance, NavBox, a backup GPS, but it really smacks of being slightly too cautious - an engine can fail just as easily in six months time. Before some mentions waiting until summer, they flew in winter/spring, potential icing conditions (although below icing levels), entirely acceptable of course, but six months planning is really taking the mickey. Funny thing too, they flew in loose (ish) formation a lot during the trip - surely increasing risk exponentially?

Apologies if I'm showing a lot of ignorance here, I'd just like to understand why it takes so long to plan.

[Julian]

Does seem an incredibly long time!

The person writing the article maybe someone has previously just been used to bimbling about the circuit and not really done any long trip planning before.

What was the trip distance? Duration? stops? etc?

[NinjaBill]

Does seem an incredibly long time!
The person writing the article maybe someone has previously just been used to bimbling about the circuit and not really done any long trip planning before.
What was the trip distance? Duration? stops? etc?

If you are talking about the article in Flyer magazine, then the pilot in question has many thousands of hours flying twin piston aircaft, with a large proportion IFR.

I just carried out my first trip, last week, from Teesside to Corsica, with about 3 months planning, and I didn't have to arrange for anywhere near the amount of kit, such as hunting rifles! However, If I was to plan a similar trip to southern europe again, I would probably be ok with 6 weeks or so.

[IO540]

If going to places where fuel is available, 6 months is way over the top. There is a reasonably straightforward process for planning a complicated trip, involving stuff like obtaining the details of every airfield and then faxing them to check they have avgas, etc. and whether there are any special requirements. This can take some weeks but no longer. Then you have to wait for suitable weather....

If avgas is not available en route then it has to be shipped (in drums) ahead and this is more complicated. I have done my share of conventional commercial-items export to dodgy countries in years gone by and shipping drums of avgas to some remote place in some bongo-bongo land must resemble russian roulette (whether the stuff will actually turn up and not be nicked by the locals).

Overflight permits is another dodgy area (in which I have no experience).

I've never done a trip to the cold wilderness up north but again it seems that 6m is way OTT. Unfortunately, as is normal for articles accepted for publication by UK flying mags, the article (which I did read) didn't do into enough detail to enable someone to replicate it.

Planning a trip to the southernmost bits of Europe (the far ends of Greece, say) is a few days' work, whether VFR or IFR. IFR tends to be a bit easier. Some airports might be e.g. 10-day PPR but the planning itself is easy.

As for GPS databases, survival gear, etc, well one should have all that already, permanently in the boot. Never get airborne without it.

[Chilli Monster]

For crying out loud people.

Do you honestly think it means 6 months looking at charts. 6 months refers to:

Booking fuel (yes - it had to be ordered specially if you read the article)
Obtaining blobby suits
Making sure the aircraft were serviced and fit to go
Obtaining extra equipment
etc etc

Some people really need to think before typing - preferable after they've pulled their head out of their ars*s!

[Whirlybird]

And they all did ditching courses.

And some of them had to learn to use the rifles.

And probably more, but I read the article in a hurry this morning, and I can't remember.

And I daresay while doing this they all had to deal with jobs, families, and the other normal things of life too.

I seem to remember Polly Vacher spend over a year planning her last round the world trip over the poles. Again, not looking at charts, but arranging fuel, doing courses, learning all the stuff you need to survive in wilderness areas. Spitzbergen is the Arctic, and a wilderness area. If you have engine failure, and don't know how to survive, you die - not maybe, definitely! Six months? I'm amazed it only took six months.

Yes, Confabulous, and others, you are really, really showing your ignorance here.

[dublinpilot]

I have spent 8 months planning a trip to Spain.

No survival training nor shipping of fuel was required, yet it has still taken 8 months. That's is not to say that I have spent Mon-Fri 9-5 planning the trip for 8 months. Rather that I have been gradually working away at it over 8 months. No doubt it could be done much quicker if needed.

The big delay in thing like this result not from the flight, but from the people. There is a group of 5 of us taking 2 aircraft.

The idea was conceived last October, and a rough outline of the trip was prepared, together with a flyer for our club Christmas party. I met with a colleague once or twice over this period to organise the rough route and the flyer. The idea was presented to the other club members at our Christmas Party. People where then given a period to decide if they wanted to join up.

We then had to meet as a group to agree the final route and over night stops.

Hotels had to me investigated and booked. Each individual flight had to be planned, and each airport be looked up. (We are visiting far more airports than is actually necessary, resulting in a larger amount of work to be done.) This was spread out over a number of weekends. We would spend maybe an hour or two doing a little work, before enjoying a fine lunch, or a local flight.

You see, the planning becomes as much a social event as a chore.

Some things take time, unless you rush them. For example, I have had to PPR 11 different airports. Rather than phone each up and try out my broken French, and non existent Spanish, I faxed each one. A week later I had replies from about half, so I faxed a reminder to the rest. A week later I had replies from all. Now I certainly could have phoned each up, and got the necessary info in about 1.5 hours, but I was in no rush.

Chart for example have to be ordered. You also want to check their revision dates, so that they aren't revised before your trip. They take awhile to arrive.

Aircraft have to be serviced, to ensure that they have sufficient hours before their 50 hour check. (We will be using about 25 hours.)

More than the flight has to be planned too. This is very much a holiday, and we want to do some fun stuff too. That takes time and research too.

Some people are happy to walk into a travel agent, purchase a two week package holiday and do no more than pack a bag and head to the airport. I on the other hand like to arrange my own holiday, and invest some time into picking the destination, the accommodation, the activities etc. This can take a number of months. If the flight is also your holiday, then it's likely to take longer than simple flight planning.

I flew to France for 2 weeks last year. It was my first (non-commercial) flight to the Continent. I think I spent 3 or 4 months planning both the flight and the holiday element.

Having now flown there, I no longer have to research the local rules. I have the charts on my floor at the moment (for the Spanish trip). No doubt if I decided I wanted to fly somewhere there tomorrow, I could plan the FLIGHT in a couple of hours at most.

When you haven't been to that country before, you don't have any of the charts etc, you need to organise aircraft, you need to find out who wants to come, and you need to make decisions by committee things take much longer. Add into the equation the fact that it's a holiday, and you want to plan that too, 6 months does not seem an unreasonable time.

Now if you need to start doing survival training organising international gun permits etc......how long is a piece of string....

dp

[Confabulous]

Thanks Dublinpilot, it all makes sense now! :ok:

Whirly & Chilli, I really don't mind showing my ignorance in these matters, I'm a student after all, and no-one goes from ignorance to understanding in the blink of an eye... unless someone explains it all, as dublinpilot and others have done. Better I find out these things now rather then later, in my opinion :}

[RatherBeFlying]

It could be a real inconvenience landing at a remote Arctic airfield to find that you have to either: wait for next Summer's ship for your fuel drum Charter a Twin Otter to fly up a fuel drum$$$$$$$$

[Whirlybird]

Confabulous,

That's OK. I didn't mean to sound as critical as I did, re-reading my post. Sorry!

[Julian]

I hadnt read the article hence why I asked for further info. If the writer had to get firearms training, ditching courses, etc, then that would certainly add to the trip planning length. In fact I would say that it goes outside the sphere of planning a trip as its actually extra training required so a whole different ballgame.

Proclaiming ignorance/heads up @rses I think is a bit strong though!
As said

Some people really need to think before typing

[IO540]

I don't think firearms training is much to do with flying. If you wanted to go there on Ryanair (assume they go there) you'd need to do the training too.

In fact, if you did go with Ryanair, you would definitely need survival and firearms training because you would have been dropped off 50 miles from the advertised destination :O

I don't wish to have a go at a UK flying magazine (a popular pastime here and elsewhere) but the typical readership is at a level where a serious "don't try this at home" disclaimer would be mandatory. The vast majority of UK PPLs, graduates of the esteemed JAA flight training industry at £8000 a pop, are completely unable to plan a flight from Goodwood to Malaga in perfect weather, and need a "cross channel checkout" to go to LeTouquet. A bit sad really, I think.

The 6 months referred to is clearly elapsed time, taking into account "life". A pro who does ferrying for example would have the logistics sorted in a week or two.

[Keef]

I've been on some very long trips that I've planned the night before. That's fine in "civilisation". For Svalbard, if you want fuel there when you arrive, you have to arrange for it to be there. If you're planning on arriving while the pack ice is in place, you have to arrange for it to arrive before the pack ice - or pay for the Twotter to fly it up for you.

The pack ice arrives around September. So if you start planning in October for a trip in April, you blew it.

[bencoulthard]

Something also to take into account. Whether flying, driving or getting a bus.

There's a difference between someone saying "right you need to go to london now" and "lets have a nice trip to london in the summer".

I'm planning to go to Japan with my friend, we have talked about it and things we want to do while we are there. But how much do you count as planning and how much is thinking about it.

I await the mass of complaints for using "nice" and "London" in the same sentence.

Ben (up north) Coulthard

[S-Works]

christ on a stick, I decided to go to Spain yesterday, Mallorca to be exact and am going on Tuesday. I looked at the map chose a route and will fly it. Not exactly rocket science. Going to go Poitier, Perpignan and then direct Mallorca to Son Bonet. Was supposed to take an r22 out there last year so decided to do it fixed wing now I have the chance and the weather is looking stunning!

In 3 weeks we are going to Prague as a group, just decided on it, bought the charts and will go. Simple. One of the great joys of flying!

And spitzbergen is not the wilderness it is just ooop north. been there a few times and its no major drama to go there either.

whirls I think you may have uncharacteristically over reacted on that one.

[fltcom]

I was on the trip in question, mine is the Bonanza in many of the pictures. The planning did indeed take more than six months and even then, it almost didn't happen because we had missed the last freight ship heading north in September - the trip was in March. It just happened that Svalbard found 4 x 200 litre drums of avgas, which was almost exactly how much we needed. The next major expedition is now being planned for the summer of 2007 - Yes, more than a year in advance. But if you want to go to places that seldom if ever see piston engine aircraft and especially places that are in extreem locations, then prior planning is all important. We're not talking about a hop accross the channel here..!

[fltcom]

christ on a stick, I decided to go to Spain yesterday, Mallorca to be exact and am going on Tuesday. I looked at the map chose a route and will fly it. Not exactly rocket science. Going to go Poitier, Perpignan and then direct Mallorca to Son Bonet. Was supposed to take an r22 out there last year so decided to do it fixed wing now I have the chance and the weather is looking stunning!
In 3 weeks we are going to Prague as a group, just decided on it, bought the charts and will go. Simple. One of the great joys of flying!
And spitzbergen is not the wilderness it is just ooop north. been there a few times and its no major drama to go there either.
whirls I think you may have uncharacteristically over reacted on that one.

Been there a few times - no major drama -please feel free to tell us all about it?

[J.A.F.O.]

I'm currently planning a little trip that I plan to take in 2014.

I think these chaps should slow down a little, no use going off half-cocked.

[S-Works]

Been there a few times - no major drama -please feel free to tell us all about it?

Get hold of a copy of 9-90 Magazine and read all about it.........

[crap pilot]

spitzbergen is not the wilderness it is just ooop north
Where would you consider to be the wilderness then? Speaking as an ex royal marine that has been to one or two extreme places i would say that svalbard is certainly in the wilderness! In March still air temperatures could be as low as -50 so with a strong wind(very common in that area) you could see wind chill temperatures of -80 to -90. Without the correct equiptment you could die in a matter of miniutes. Then you have to consider that you could get eaten by a polar bear which may sound a little far fetched but it has happend several times in spitsbergen within the last ten years. This is one of the resons that you have to ask permission to leave the town once you are there.
been there a few times and its no major drama to go there either.

If this is true and you beleive that it is no major drama to go there then you are either extremely confident in your aircraft or you simply did not understand what you where getting yourself into. I understand that if everything goes to plan it is simple but what do you do when things dont?

[S-Works]

oops sorry I did not mention any aircraft in my post. I have been there many times with the military and many times running diving expeditions.

I was making the point that I did not think Spitzbergen was that hostile, I have many fond memories of the place. I was making the point that 6 months to plan a trip may have been excessive that was all.

Royal Marines? We had to have someone make the tea.........

[Confabulous]

Thanks bose-x, very relieved to hear there's a few people who don't blunder about trying to predict the weather 3 months in advance :E

Incidentally I read another article in Flyer about GA risk by our own John Farley - the realisation that flight test is safer then GA is fairly startling, and very true once you think about it :uhoh: But that doesn't preclude long trips as long as you truely know what you're doing and have a backup plan for most situations.

[Timothy]

As the author of the article in Flyer, my attention has been drawn to this thread. It reminds me of why I don't bother with PPRuNe these days. :rolleyes:

If anyone is really that interested in seeing what we had to consider in the planning process, I would be happy to send them the minutes of our meetings, where we divided up the work and responsibilities.

Much of the planning was not to do with the actual flying per se, but with picking the appropriate time of year, selecting activities once we got up there and so on.

But a good deal of it was to do with ordinary flight planning, and Keef makes the most relevant point about the fuel.

But there were other issues like identifying, sourcing, having shipped and testing engine pre-heaters, having EASA certified long-range tanks fitted, the ditching courses etc.

And the weapons training was entirely due to flying. We needed weapons and a knowledge how to use them primarily in case of forced landing...the rifles were of the same status as dinghies.

Even getting appropriate charts was not as easy as it sounds, much of Svalbard is not properly mapped and the best charts we could find only said "Terrain not thought to exceed 6,500' ".

Of course you can blast off without planning to places like Spain and Greece...I do so all the time...because you are pretty confident that fuel, hotels etc will be there when you get there. Svalbard is a remote wilderness. It would be daft to pretend that it is Palma and just go.

It would not take as long to plan another flight to Svalbard now we have the experience, of course, and if anyone is thinking of doing it and wishes to use the benefit of the thorough planning we did, please get in touch and I will help as much as I can.

This having been the first thread I have read on PPRuNe for some months or years, I am not encouraged to haunt these pages on a regular basis, but if something specific comes up which requires my input, please eMail me and I will come back.

[Whirlybird]

Timothy,

Welcome back! :ok: Even if not for long. :(

Some of us understood perfectly well what you were saying. The ones who didn't, well, some haven't even started flying yet, I think. They asked; they got an answer....several, actually. Nothing wrong with that, is there? IMHO some of the others who should have known better were talking crap, but that's PPRuNe for you - if we all agreed, threads would die very quickly.

But it would be really, really nice to have more people with your experience on here. Just occasionally, mind you; you don't have to read it every day. There's some good stuff here now and then. Why not drop in once in a while, and speed-read PPRuNe, selectively, that won't take long.

Meanwhile, I'll remember that you're willing to come back if emailed for a good reason. ;)

[drauk]

Timothy, I find your attitude amusing.

Edited to say:

A misunderstanding which has now been cleared up.

[rustle]

Timothy, I find your attitude amusing.

More amusing I thought was the obvious close attention the thread starter paid the article in question:

Granted, the flight was for two aircraft going from the UK to Spitzbergen/Svalbard and back...

There were three aircraft involved in the trip. :rolleyes:

Maybe he/she should have spent longer reading it :}

[DFC]

I think that everyone is confusing "Planning" with "Preparation".

Everyone should be able to plan a flight to the limit of the endurance of the aircraft within 45 minutes to 1 hour from scratch. That includes getting the weather and notams and having the plog prepared and being ready to walk to the aircraft. IFR or VFR, makes no difference. If you can't then get some practice. It is amazing how you can get a nice system in place which will allow you to spend more time flying or at the destination than lounging round the planning room.

However, making preparations for a flight to an unusual destination can take longer and dela with the more basic aspects of operating the aircraft rather than the flight itself.

----------

QUOTE=Timothy]This having been the first thread I have read on PPRuNe for some months or years, I am not encouraged to haunt these pages on a regular basis, but if something specific comes up which requires my input, please eMail me and I will come back[/QUOTE]

Email you to come back? You will be asking a fee for your input next :mad:

Regards,

DFC

[IO540]

If the Flyer article contained some useful details on the planning process, the (perfectly reasonable) question which started this thread would not have been asked.

But if the article contained enough information to enable someone to follow in the author's footsteps (gosh what a revolutionary idea that would be for a trip writeup!!!!! I should apply for a patent on that) the magazine would not have published it. As I well know, having written up a few trips in some detail. Some foreign pilot mags will publish articles like that but none of the UK ones will.

Printed magazines have to tread a narrow line between brief articles with pretty pictures, and a readership which probably contains a lot of non-pilots. They can never compete with detailed web writeups, quite a number of which can be unearthed using google in a matter of seconds and for free, but of course web writeups don't pay any money...

The other thing is that a detailed writeup (whether it goes on the web or anywhere else) takes a lot of time to do. You have to (for example) save copies of routes, weather charts from the day, etc as without that there will be essential parts missing. Private pilots are not taught most of the process (true even if they have an IR of either type) and there is a lot of info to pass on.

[rustle]

If the Flyer article contained some useful details on the planning process, the (perfectly reasonable) question which started this thread would not have been asked.

You want some vinegar for that chip? ;)

I've never expected a "story" to give me all the facts and figures.

The article is there to pique my interest, maybe to make me think of doing it or something similar.

It isn't (and never could be) a plan which I could cut'n'paste and use as my own.

As for the original question, if the basic facts are wrong :rolleyes: I don't think it falls into the "reasonable question" bucket.

[FullyFlapped]

DFC :-

Everyone should be able to plan a flight to the limit of the endurance of the aircraft within 45 minutes to 1 hour from scratch.
And DFC will now tell us all, children, how we may obtain up to date charts of whatever part of Europe we may be aiming for within 45 minutes ....

Sorry, DFC. Couldn't resist it : but those who use absolutes should first of all be absolutely sure they're not talking b*@$$*^s .... ! ;)

FF :ok:

[IO540]

rustle, what "chip"?

[rustle]

Just joshing, IO.

Thought you might still be smarting from that unfortunate incident in the other place ;)

[Whirlybird]

But if the article contained enough information to enable someone to follow in the author's footsteps (gosh what a revolutionary idea that would be for a trip writeup!!!!! I should apply for a patent on that) the magazine would not have published it.

Well of course they wouldn't! It would have been thousands upon thousands of words long and sent most of us to sleep. Either that, or we'd have speed-read it and missed a lot of stuff anyway...oh yes, I forgot, the original person who asked the question couldn't even remember how many aircraft made the trip, so naturally he would have read all the detail of six months planning, now wouldn't he? How many people who read that article thought, "Oh yes, I want to do that trip next year". I suspect that most of us who read it found it great entertainment, something to aim for in the future perhaps, and we wished and dreamed..... If we really, really wanted to follow in Timothy's footsteps, I'm sure an email to him would have provided more detail than a mag article ever could anyway.

Of course flying mags have to cater for a wide audience. How else are they going to survive? You don't have to read them if you don't like that. And if you write for them, you ought to read them first to get some idea of the style and type of article they publish. That's what the rest of us do who write for the mags you know. I don't write my helicopter articles for a CPL level audience - I could, but they'd get rejected, and quite rightly too.

I think the original question was perfectly reasonable. Some of the answers haven't been though. :(

[Confabulous]

IO540's telling the truth about the articles, it frustrates me to read a good trip article and not have the background knowledge given, or at least be pointed in the right direction. One particular blog stands out that does give a huge amount of information about planning trips is 2Donkey's UK-US-UK trip, it gives a lot insight into the whole process (I only found it a few days ago, after I had started this thread). If there are others, I'd love to know!

For me, an aircraft is multipurpose no matter what it was designed for - I'm equally happy on a long trip or trying to perfect steep turns, flaring or whatever else I have thrown at me. The more I know about everything the better off I am, from ASRS reports to AAIB investigations and other people's techniques and ideas I would have never thought about. Aviation is one world where ignorance is regularly deadly or nearly so.

One example (not related to the topic, but worth thinking about) is a recent air test that was done at my local club on a Warrior II. The actual air test went well except the aircraft wouldn't reach Vne. They came back down and assumed they just hadn't opened the throttle enough during the dive. The next day my friend (it wasn't me, I'm still a student, he's an ATPL/FI), intriuged by this problem, took to the skies in the same aircraft, opened the power and pointed the nose earthwards. It went straight through Vne, and in a few seconds he was officially a test pilot. He finally got control of the speed around Vne +20kts, heart thumping wildly as he waited for flutter onset, VSI off the low scale and the cows getting bigger. He told me later that bleeding off those 20kts felt as if it took 20 minutes, especially when aircraft age and poor repair could easily erase the flutter margin to nothing. He landed slightly shaken and very stirred.

I wondered what he'd done to check the aircraft over after. Nothing, as it turns out. He didn't even bring it to the local engineer to check over, nor did he file a CHIRP report.

What I learned is:

If you're going to do something unusual or that you've never done before, go up with someone else who has.

Plan for what to do if things go wrong

Know you aircrafts' limits, not just in terms of G, bank angle and stall speed, but know how quickly it accelerates, decelerates, increasing or decreasing (unlikely) stick force as you pull... actually know as much as you possibly can about your aircraft, from any reputable source!

Advanced training or learning DOES NOT make you invulnerable to stupidity.

oh yes, I forgot, the original person who asked the question couldn't even remember how many aircraft made the trip

True, I forgot, but not really relevant.

[IO540]

rustle

:O Not at all, incident or accident (I will never know) I found it a time-saving blessing. Anyway, considerably better genetic diversity here ;)

I thought you were referring to some trip writeups being turned down. I did have some experience of this but those in question were never written for a magazine. It was the explanation that was given "we are inundated with material so can afford to be choosy" or something equivalent that speaks volumes for the stuff that does make it to publication. I get a distinct feeling (and direct feedback) that people who actually fly would prefer to read stuff that teaches them something. PPL training falls miles short of teaching people how to go places, and so many trip writeups (none meant in particular, please note) could have been compiled in an hour with pictures from "google images" with some diatribe in between.

[High Wing Drifter]

I'm agree with IO540 and Confabulous. I want to know what was involved. Not saying there isn't a place for travel writing, but practical information is surely more relevant to a flying mag! The seemingly forced pilot-persona style humour in one or two articles is particuarly irritating.

[englishal]

Personnaly I found the article one of the better ones that Flyer has done for a while - though I'd like to have seen a bit more "technical" depth to it. I am not interested in Joe Bloggs and his first airline job which all the UK mags seem to focus on (because we all want to be airline pilots right?) and did consider letting my subscription lapse and just keep on with the US AOPA mag which is far more interesting. However, I'll give them the benefit of another year......

I get a distinct feeling (and direct feedback) that people who actually fly would prefer to read stuff that teaches them something.

Exactly, I have read some of IO's writeups and this is the sort of material I find interesting. Besides it is a way of sharing info that the more experienced pilots out there may have gained, with the less experienced (which is also why I read books like "Fate is the Hunter" etc....).

As far as the question goes.....I duuno, if I were planning a first North Atlantic crossing for next spring, I'd be planning now......because it is fun, and you can never be too prepared.

[Pilot-H]

Personnaly I found the article one of the better ones that Flyer has done for a while - though I'd like to have seen a bit more "technical" depth to it. ................it is a way of sharing info that the more experienced pilots out there may have gained, with the less experienced (which is also why I read books like "Fate is the Hunter" etc....).

I was one of the pilots in the Spitsbergen article AND I actually started
reading "Fate is the Hunter" while on the trip!

Of course, I had bought it six months previously but had not found the time to open it ;)

[Confabulous]

I actually started reading "Fate is the Hunter" while on the trip!

Gann talks about flights to Narsaaruaq and Goose Bay in FITH, similiar to the flying you were doing! :ok:

For what it's worth, FITH should be a part of the PPL syllabus.

[DFC]

DFC :-
And DFC will now tell us all, children, how we may obtain up to date charts of whatever part of Europe we may be aiming for within 45 minutes ....


Takes me all of 3 seconds to walk over to the chart cupoard. There are lots of online versions available if you spend the money.

However, let me say it again in simple terms.

The purchase of the chart is preparation

Preparation

Planing is where you open the chart, get weather notams etc!

:D

Regards,

DFC

[IO540]

Takes me all of 3 seconds to walk over to the chart cupoard.

Do you work for the British Airways ground ops department, by any chance? ;)

There are lots of online versions available if you spend the money.

Yes, Flitestar (£200 or so) and the Raster Charts add-on (£200 for each update, for Europe). The CAA charts can be purchased from Memory Map. A lot of maps can be illegally downloaded from ED2K networks but it is rarely recent enough. The nationally produced "ICAO charts" are usually cr*p. That's more or less it, I think.

The above cover Europe down to Italy, and a little bit N of the UK. Past that, nobody (in general) produces VFR charts; you buy the American-made ONC/TPC charts which tend to be 5-10 years out of date.

I don't think you have flown to any of these places, DFC.

[S-Works]

well a PREPARED for my trip to Mallorca last Saturday by buying a chart or two. I PLANNED the flight an hour before leaving on Wednesday and made the rest up as we went......:)

[egbt]

Before you can prepare something you need to know what is required so the planning must have started.

So with long preparation necessary and planning always taking longer DFC’s wriggling is not very convincing.

[Pilot-H]

Past that, nobody (in general) produces VFR charts; you buy the American-made ONC/TPC charts which tend to be 5-10 years out of date.

We ordered the latest two VFR charts we could find for Spitsbergen, the ONC and TPC. One said "Aeronautical Information compiled by the Directorate of Civil Aviation Norway NOVEMBER 1964" the other was far more up-to-date, it was compiled in 1986!
They both had areas which had not been surveyed; "Maximum elevation figures are BELIEVED not to exceed 5900' feet"
In reality they were both good enough to use in addition to the properly up-to-date charts provided by Bottlang (VFR airport charts) and Jeppesen (IFR plates)

[Pilot-H]

Youve read the article;


Now watch the movie! (http://www.cgi-studio.co.uk/arctic adventure.wmv)

[mm_flynn]

Pilot H
Great video. I still can't understand why you need to do so much prep. There were lots of flat places to land with lots of pubs to hang out in until Global Warming melts the ice - and the water on the coast looked really inviting with the ice cubes in it :) .
Joking aside - it sounded like all of the preparation of getting a good group of guys together, three aircraft, some great excursions and for some of you a stop in the Ice Hotel on the way back (definitely on my fly to list!) was worth it.

[IO540]

Very good video - thanks for posting it.

Was this a local bimble, or IFR en route? It seems very low relative to terrain.

Did you have a cockpit voice soundtrack? It can be done by using an external mike, and tucking it inside a headset. I've got some URLs for suitable camcorder mikes, if anybody is interested.

On the ONC charts, they are all old now. I don't think they make new ones anymore. I think they were produced for the US military, in the days before GPS took over navigation. I've used a Greek one and that is 1998; usable in a limited manner: terrain, airfields and most navaids.