how many have found a job?

[A320rider]

when reading posts on pprune , I can see that not so many wanabees have found a job.

on 200 posts I have read, there is no post saying" I have found a job" or something like that...

it is always" where are the jobs?", "where buy a type/rating?", "then what?","am I too old?"

I see you with the "I know a guy who did this and that and he got a job after doing this and that and now flies a B987 or a A375" bla bla bla...

By chance I know lot of guys too , who have given up simply because they 've runed out of cash! and I am not going to lie to you:we are screwed!

my conclusion is: no cash=no job...

[tudeski2004]

I knew something was missing from PPRUNE over the last few weeks. Welcome back A320 Rider. Your usless inputs, constant drivel and inane babel may annoy people in most places, but here you're tollerated as , I for one, see you as a source of amusement.
Keep up the ammusing threads
:ugh:

[balhambob]

Sorry but I happen to quite agree with A320rider.

I think this forum tends to paint a negative picture of how hard it actually is to get a job?????

I'm new to this and am just thinking about launching myself into an aviation career at the age of 30 but some of the stuff i hear on here makes me consider otherwise.

i have a couple of meets lined up with friends of friends who are both pilots with airlines. I'm hoping they will paint me the real picture.

As A320 said I have hardly heard of anyone saying they have landed a job.

It just seems that everyone is very frustrated!

It also seems that when people start talking about OAT, Cabair etc a select few seem to get very negative - could that be because they are envious of those that are lucky enough to go to these schools? - if so then they should just come out and say it!

[Olof]

fATPL finished in Jan 2006....now a Ryanair Cadet... TR course starts on 5th of June! I'm happy :\

[buster172]

Balhambob,

I just gotta reply,

I travelled the length and breadth of the country including a two day visit to Jerez before deciding on where to train and in the end, it was the school just down the road. I do not feel I am 'not lucky' because I didn’t go to Oxford or Jerez!!

Come on! I can tell you I started my crappy little office job today (that’s frustrating) while I apply to a select few airlines in the vain hope that with persistence, talking to established people and friends I will get a break. I have friends on the CTC scheme, friends straight out of school into Eastern and even Thomsonfly, they didn’t train at Oxford, or Cabair, or Jerez. Plan B is the traditional route becoming an FI and that’s something I would like to do anyway.

I don’t get wound up that I didn’t go to these schools but I do get wound up about people talking in a way that implies if you didn’t go there, your some kind of second class pilot. I cant be the only one tired of this?
See what ya did? :}

All jesting aside, if you are new to this don’t get sucked into to thinking there are only three schools to train at. There are many, very good, smaller schools turning out just as good pilots and costing less. Don’t write them off.
All the best if you do decide to go for it.

Buster

:ok:

[A320rider]

good for you olof, all I see you are one more pilot to open his wallet and crash more money .I guess this is all you got: ryanair!

this market became totally crazy with crooks all over the world who laugh at us.
Last time I have heared in a office, 2 executive managers saying that they wont need to pay us, because some monkeys are too stupid to pay them to work...
all both left their office , still laughing loudly,and guess what they were driving? mercedes!

the next day I step up in the office manager, and I share my thought about work to pay' scheme, and social system,I told him it was not right...he told me as long people pay them to work, why to change...

Morality: you make this market, bad or good, if you have to blame somebody, blame yourself but not me, because I have warned you...

about Oxford school? I would like to know how many student from Oxford have still no job(90%), and no money left to buy a type rating.I would suggest to check for a flying job before to start a training.

[Flying Farmer]

A320 you talk out of your arse, I have just got a job at 44 and I'm not going to start explaining how either, if you don't like how the system works buddy go find another job.

Edited to add, I hate trolls and would not usually bite BUT this fellas a knob.

[FliegerTiger]

Ronchonner's back again then??? :hmm:

[Dozza2k]

a320


of my oxford course, 90% of us have jobs.

d2k

[BitMoreRightRudder]

You don't see lots of posts about people getting jobs because most use this forum to gain info on basic training and who is recruiting, what to expect in the interview/sim check and then disappear once they have a job never to be heard of again.

I only come back here to see how A320 is getting on:E

[cheesycol]

Finished modular training end of Jan this year. Start type-rating on Monday on a jet :ok:
I have not spent any money on finding a job since paying for my MCC, save for travelling expenses to the interview and subsequent sim assessment :)

[54.98N]

Finished modular training in September 2005. Just got my first job, not saying where just yet. FO turboprop.

It WILL happen, normally when you least expect it!

54.98N

[scroggs]

A320 and other sceptics, these forums are for people training for and trying to obtain employment. The minute they get employment, they're off and the vast majority never return - if they stay with Pprune, they go and play in the vast number of forums which most of you guys don't dare to visit.

Anecdotal evidence suggests that around 90% or more of all fATPL graduates are getting aviation employment at the moment. Those are pretty good odds.

Scroggs

[FliegerTiger]

Started training Feb 04, Modular, aged 33
Finished MCC course July 05
CTC Wings ATP scheme Jan 06
RHS A319 May 06


Cheers,

FT

[Turkish777]

As Scroggs has said, its quite true, how many of you in all honestly will still come on pprune when you've landed a job flying a shiny jet..???...0...

[A340rider]

I think I still come on to tell truth as I make some fiends on here and fans of me...

Poor sod me went to Essex to see air show last week and some bloody essex thug punch me..Not nice place or peoples there...his girl fancy me I think (me in uniform haha) he gets jealous so he tell me F**k of to Spain you Spanish C**t..I tell him be warned I do Karate!! I did kata in front of him to show im dangerous!! then he throw his beer at me and punch me on my poor head...and I get knock over and land on pot noodle stand...people all laughing...police dont care...horrible place...me is the poor sod try to help with advice to people on the plane!!

:{

[EGPE]

completed frozen ATPL mid May first application I filled in was thomsonfly thought it would be a waste of time! But no, 3 weeks later i got a reply. I have been called to stage one selection. Shame I am going to fail the number and verbal reasoning:ugh: But will be good experiance for the future so I know what to expect! Have not applied anywhere else yet, I have got some company creating my CV to try and make it look good, Wish they would hurry up so I can start geting it out there and see how hard it really is to get selected for interview

[On speed on profile]

A340rider.

Broken record.... Lame......Wannabee A320rider.........:hmm:

Whats the difference between A340rider and an Essex girl?
A340 knocks over the pot noodles when he comes [to england].

P.S. People who know karate and are "dangerous" dont get the sh$t kicked out of them.

[Jinkster]

after a good 12months of sending out CVs (literally, 40 a month), I gave up and started a flying instructor rating of which I should have done 12months ago.

Currently 23yrs old and instructing to build hours in hope for a shiny jet job asap!

:)

PS: test soon for anyone that knows me!!!

[Gillespie]

I finished fATPL early April, and I've been accepted onto the CTC ATP scheme. At the moment recruitment seems to be hot.

Problem is, is that people like Mr A320rider believe that obtaining an fATPL automatically guarantees them a job....But it's the same as any other profession, if you you're a tit you won't be employed!

Reading your previous post Mr A320, although they're funny, displays an attitude not suitable for employment by an airline (in my humble opinion).

It's sad to say but some people will never get a job. Could you sit for 8 hours in cockpit with the likes of A320/A340rider?

I couldn't...

[Mooney12]

Recruitment sure is hot right now.....but how long is it going to last?

I want to get in ASAP to get some hours up before any downturn!

[BAP]

Hi there.

Well you have to get out of your chairs in order to land yourself a job.

I did a Type rating on the B737 which turned out to be a bad idea, as there were no jobs for inexperienced 737 pilots, however this is most likely to change in the near future, i think.

When I couldn’t find myself a pilots job, I started working on the ground as a Ramp Agent with DHL, which was great fun, and a very educational experience. In addition to that I found myself a job as a phone salesman for a Ariel photography company during the winter months.

I also made an arrangement with my former flight school ,who is also operating light twins to a few small islands in Denmark, to fly along as a PNF.

And after I had flown a few times, I was offered a job in the administration and as pilot on demand. With the prospect of becoming a pilot on their island hobs.

However this never happened as I just have been offered a position on the B757.
And in addition to that, the Ariel company called me the other day offering me a job as pilot on a C172…

So it is possible, if you do something about it. Sending out tons of CV is not the right way to do it. I have been down that road as well…

Let me tell you about a few of my friends...
One guy flew as fire patrol in Norway, when he wasn't at work at SAS' check-in desks in Oslo. After he had gained approx 60-70 hours on the C172, he managed to get contact with a small Swedish company, and after he had called them several times talking about nothing in particular, he was invited for an interview. Now he is flying Navajo's and Chieftain, and will most likely be flying Metro as well…

Another friend of mine managed to get contact to a small airline company in the Far East; he is now flying as F/O on an A319. Everything was paid by the company.. He started out as Dispatcher in CPH and managed to find some very useful contacts.

And another friend of mine, started out cleaning etc a BE200 King Air, now he is flying it as a F/O... All the above examples has happened recently..

However it has been difficult to move from piston or even turbo-prob job, to a jet job during the past few years, but let’s hope that this will change too.

Good luck ;o) It is not impossible...

[wobble2plank]

A320 Rider

I gotta job, on your namesake, cheers.

No bond, no TR costs, no nothin, moneys mine. Oh and the ATPL cost me under 6 grand.

See you down trip (actually hopefully not)

[G-LOST]

GO RONCHONNER!!!!!

GREAT TO SEE YOU BACK IN BUSINESS MY FRIEND. YOU MAKE AN OTHERWISE DRY FORUM MUCH MORE INTERESTING...

LOST

[Just another student]

Completed my f-atpl last October and not a sniff of an interview so far. I'm trying to go down the work at the airport and meet contacts route, so we shall see what happens. It is frustrating, as many of the people from the same flight school as me have secured jobs etc I simply do not know what I have done wrong :ugh: However, got to keep going and stick at it, it will be worth it in the end :)

Good luck to all :ok:

JAS

[TooLowTerrain]

:confused:

I not sure A320 deserves this much abuse for his post....

[Fancy Navigator]

Not a sniff of a job either.....
Just got told once or twice my CV "looked interesting", but there were no vacancies at that time..... I suppose that at least, I got a reply....(which seems not to be the case usually)!
Very difficult to keep the faith!
FNav ;)

[dxbpilot]

if you don't acheive your goal , you don't want it bad enough

yes the aviation industry is not a walk in the park- its rewarding not easy

luckily the recruiters don't take people like A320 rider

[Rudedog]

fATPL finished in Jan 2006....now a Ryanair Cadet... TR course starts on 5th of June! I'm happy :\

That feeling won't last long with that lot: enjoy it!

[DeltaSix]

Started to fly light twins first ( duchess then chieftain ), built up my hours to 1500+ hours ( 800 in the multi ) then went back to instructing then turbine job while finishing my ATPL.
My office now is the right seat of the 734. Going to NG in the next few months. However, I might stay with the 734 if I make captain soon.

Cheers

D6

[herta]

- frozen ATPL 240 hours
- finished modular in 12/2004
- 800 applications around the world...
- Type rating B 737 in february 2006
Got a job a month ago, in europe thank to my TRTO (the FSB) which more or less placed me.

It is so hard to get this first job... really so hard, even with a Masters degree and fluency in 3 european languages... Good luck to all of you.

[Dufo]

350 hours, f-atpl, mcc..got hired as f/o on the L-410 turbolet.
Never had to pay for type rating, uniform or absinth for the chief pilot.
:ok:

[Jester2]

Hi I've never posted before, but felt the need on this one.

I went the instructing route, and it worked !
So the way i see it.......
The more hours and/or experience uget the better. As when people first qualify, no matter where you trained, we all get handed the same piece of paper!

The only difference after that initial issue is what else else you can bring to the party. I've known peolple work in ops, as dispatchers, baggage handling, you name it. But they all have one thing in common, they stayed close to the industry they invested in, made friends(Some enemies!!lol) and contacts. All the time building experience of the industry, be it flying/instructing or just knowing how it all slots together.

I agree this is not viable for everyone, but it does work.

For some it will take longer than for others, but i do really believe that there is something out there for everyone.

I wish you all well, and believe it or not it gets easier, i didn't even have to apply for my last job.

Jester

[alspal]

well, where do i begin? just joined, so reading through some of the replies in these rooms and it seems i'm entering into a career path that doesnt sound that promising. ive been flying since i was 14 so hope i started early enough but am desperate to fly for BA, am i aiming to high lol?!?:confused:

[adm100]

My ATPL course finished about a month ago with about 20 guys on it. So far 4 people have passed BA sim checks and are waiting to start a JOC course with them, One guy is just about to go down for a BA sim check and one guy has just passed an interview with Loganair and has been offered a job. So that's 5 (potentially 6) guys out of 20 who have jobs within a month of finishing a course.

I'm not saying it's easy, or everyone gets a job straight away. But if you work hard, you should be able to achieve what you want. From my (limited) experience so far, it seems that the people that do well in this industry tend to be easy to get on with, take their job seriously and most of all, don’t spend all their time complaining about what they feel are the hundreds of injustices that have prevented them from reaching their goal.

[scroggs]

...but am desperate to fly for BA, am i aiming to [sic] high lol?!?:confused:

Too high? Desperate to fly for BA? Have you done any research...?

DA DEP Selection - the lowdown (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=147292)

BA Shorthaul Lifestyle (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=217313)

BA Pilots 'Prepared to Strike' (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=206096&highlight=BA+strike)

Pilot Shortage At BA? (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=177398&perpage=15&pagenumber=1)

There's lots more...

Scroggs

[A320rider]

some of you have found a job.good for you.recruitment will not last forever...2 months, 6 months?

but how many are still looking? thousand!
this market train thousand pilots every year (5000-10000 pilot for europe) for ONLY 500 open positions in europe.

so 5 on 100 pilots will find a job when 95 pilots will struggle.


keep dreaming, when banks will take your house, you will wake up!:{

[FunFlyin]

What really worries me is the general tone of this post

Ok it was started by someone who enjoys storring things up. But the replies all kinda seem to have taken the same tone.

You all need to remember that with a commercial licence you are entitled to be paid for your flying.

Last time i looked, Glider towing, Aerial photography, Para dropping and Instructing are all commercial jobs.
Just because some people might be getting jobs now, dont count on the fact that it will be this way for any length of time.

....Fly commercially - the hours all add up and its what your licence allows you to do. Dont try and jump the queue by paying for a type rating :E

[RITZER82]

Hi can anyone tell me please whether its true that some qualified pilots have never secured their first airline job ever because if that is true this is deeply worrying after all the hard work and money invested into training and your life long ambition has not been met, and what is the average time that you secure your first job with an airline, thanks.

[scroggs]

Yes, it is true. The proportion of wannabes failing to find a professional flying job is smaller than it was, but is still significant. Probably in the order of 10 - 20% of those that complete an fATPL will never fly an aeroplane as a professional pilot.

That's considerably better than it used to be...

Scroggs

[AlexL]

A320 rider is obviously a 10 year old troll, and as such I am not rising to his bait.
However the last couple of posts have piqued my interest again in this old subject. Exactly how many people are training and qualifying each year? It seems incredibly hard to get this info.
IF you look at the CAA stats here http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fcl_LRIssues_2004_05.pdf, then it seems to imply that in 2004/05 963 CPLs were issued, of which only 154 had IRs attached.
I find this hard to believe given the number of IR examiners and centres around, and the number of courses around, however this paints a very different picture to the established mantra of 1000's of pilots training every year if true.
I have emailed the CAA to try and clarify my reading of these statistics tables, but got a reply which didn't tell me anything new.
Any other thoughts on this?

[femaleWannabe]

Probably in the order of 10 - 20% of those that complete an fATPL will never fly an aeroplane as a professional pilot.

This 10 - 20 % must be pretty similar to degree courses. I know a lot of people finish a degree and never actually get a job doing what they trained to do. From what I can find out from my uni - around 20% of people from my course are still looking for a job relating to their degree subject. I know it is much cheaper to do a degree than it is to train as a pilot (let alone doing both) but I don't think getting a job as a professional pilot is necessarily less likely to happen than getting a graduate job in any other industry. Before I got my current job, I filled in exactly 56 application forms for graduate schemes. I got about 20 phone interviews, then 3 face to face interviews. It was just a point of applying for everything I could find and practising aptitude tests - from my limited knowledge, this is similar to finding an airline job.

[scroggs]

Don't forget that 'professional' encompasses all those who are paid to fly. If you want a statistic about those who get to airline jet jobs, you'll have to rely on a guess - and my guess is that, overall and at the moment, somewhere between 30% and 50%* of all new fATPL graduates get their first flying job on a jet within, say, 9 months of graduation. Obviously the figure varies from 95%+ at CTC to 0% from those schools that simply would not interest a jet wannabe, and everything in between.

Scroggs

It may be more, it may be less, but that's the kind of ballpark we're looking at. Don't give me a hard time if you have figures suggesting it's 25% or 55%!

[Piltdown Man]

Annecdotal evidence from those I fly with suggests Scroggs is as accurate with his figures as this discussion needs. However, what is clear, is that the more prestigous the flight school and the more committed and more presentable the student (in attitude, appearance, education etc.), the more likely they are to get a job on completion of their studies. The 10% who will never get a job in commercial aviation are the same 10% who would find it difficult to get hired at a certain Scottish restaurant.

[femaleWannabe]

Not quite sure which Scottish restaurant you're referring to but I get the idea! :}

I'd be interested in a list (not much chance of this) of employed airline pilots and where they trained. Ok, we all know most people who go integrated will end up with a job. But what happens if you go to stapleford, leeds, bournemouth, tayflite, bristol etc? Does this significantly reduce your employment prospects? does it take longer but you get there in the end? Or is it a case of once an airline has run out of integrated oxford students to recruit, they read a few CVs and might take a few modular (oxford and cabair modular first of course!) ?

[omnidirectional737]

I went to Stapleford for the IR and done the exams the modular route and I am lucky enough to have a jet job, so I guess it just depends on how lucky you are.

[femaleWannabe]

Thanks omnidirectional737 (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=128841),

If you don't mind me asking, did you get a jet job straight away?

[Canada Goose]

Another factor to consider is how many people are forking out for either speculative or job pending type ratings ! That sort of info is also useful - well to me anyway !!

CG

[femaleWannabe]

Yeah I'd be interested to know that as well.... I have no intentions of paying for a type rating, but if people keep doing it then it will become the norm and the only way to get a job. I wouldn't mind so much if there was a guaranteed job at the end... or if I was bonded... but I'm not keen on forking out all that dosh with no guarantees - the fATPL is bad enough :}

[Tuned In]

How does A320 find his stats? Hasn't another thread had a comment of 2-500 new posts with Easy? So how can there be only 500 posts in Europe for newbies, considering the number of retirements (high at the moment - my father's RAF contemporaries who flew civvy are all about that age where there is no choice, and they were a big recruitment bulge) and the expansion in the sector where I work which is outside Easy's market (I have a job, by the way A320) and in other companies I know of (e.g. FlyBe have half their ordered Q400s and are already short of pilots, Ryanair).

So where does the figure come from? And is the 5-10,000 as inaccurate?

[Megaton]

Somebody was asking about which schools people went to and where they were eventually employed. I'll start the ball rolling:

PPL (Humberside)
FAA IR (Texas)
Exams (Bristol)
CPL (EFT)
IR Conv (Atlantic Coventry)
MCC (Oxford)

Now with BA on A319/320/321 after short stint with a regional TP operator.

Hope this helps or is, at least, of interest to some.

[femaleWannabe]

Thanks Ham Phisted, thats exactly what I'm looking for!

It's good to see you trained at a variety of different schools and got a job. I've read so much about how airlines like it all done in one place but clearly you've proved this isn't necessary.

[Megaton]

No problem. Ppruners provided me with inspiration and information all the way through from PPL to the MCC so I'm only too pleased to offer any advice or information that I can.

[piperindian]

Some hard facts :

- of the 10 guys who finished (succeeded) the fATPL course (modular) with me, only 1 has still an airline job right now. 1 or 2 had found a job but their airline went bankrupt after a few months (so they did not get any line experience).

- I know some jet pilots with 1000s of hours who are still unemployed right now and are still looking and they are unemployed because their airline went bankrupt or proceeded to mass layoffs (not because they were personnally fired)

- some airlines prefer to employ pilots from eastern europe and russia because they are much cheaper.

those are the facts in my possession. you can interpretate that as you want

[femaleWannabe]

piperindian,

From reading your other doom and gloom posts I'm guessing you don't have a flying job?

I don't deny that it's hard to find a job, but from what I can tell, those who get left behind are those who are pessimistic, defeatest and generally not what an airline (or any other employer for that matter) is looking for...

were you on the same course as A320rider by any chance?

[mcgoo]

were you on the same course as A320rider by any chance?

or maybe too far off course??

[piperindian]

femaleWannabe

your comments are not worth of an answer. i wish you will learn the hard way.

[femaleWannabe]

or maybe too far off course??

lol :D

Something struck me the other day when I went to gatwick for my medical. I sat down in reception amongst 5 guys whom I was told were there to sit ATPL exams. Not one of them looked up at me, and when I said hello, not one of them spoke back. I then went into the medical suite and there were about 4 guys going through the process at the same time as myself. I thought there would be some conversation about flying - how many hours have you done? where are you training? etc etc. But again, not one person spoke. It's got me wondering how on earth anyone could sit next to somebody like that in a cockpit for more than 20 minutes without going insane :confused: I'm thinking this was a sample of the future "unemployable fATPL holders"... either that or they're all sexist and didn't want to talk to me, or I'm some kind of freak :}

[femaleWannabe]

femaleWannabe

your comments are not worth of an answer. i wish you will learn the hard way.

lol, if the "hard way" means working bloody hard, having a positive attitude and a bit of determination, then I'm looking forward to it thank you very much :ok:

I find it quite amusing that you just expect everyone to take your word for it - I believe you when you say you know unemployed pilots, but you don't give any background info, how can anyone make an informed decision based on the "facts" you have provided?

[mcgoo]

lol :D

Something struck me the other day when I went to gatwick for my medical.

it wasn't somebody jumping out of the window due to a poor exam performance was it?

[Heffer]

Finished training early 2002
Two interviews and four years later:
B757 with 270 hours TT.

Now has to be the best time in the last 5 years to get an airline position.
Those who have been around long enough know the good times don't last forever! Get motivated.

[captwannabe]

femaleWannabe,

I'm surprised people at Gatwick weren't very chatty. Maybe the guys doing their exams were bricking it, but in fairness, the guys doing their medical must all have been really shy! :O Hehehe ;)

[jamestkirk]

That piece of news of yours in encouraging. Well Done.

[jamestkirk]

You are absolutely right. I have met a few wannabes (where i trained) who you would not want to sit next to on a train yet alone fly with. And, yes, they have got jobs with airlines. What does that say about the people recruiting.

Don't be too harsh on piper indian. I am instructing at the moment and trained the modular way. His statistics, from what he says are the general picture.

I hate going for medicals and sitting exams. So, if someone was out-going enough to say hello me, i would definately talk back, or even crack a joke and maybe lap dance at reception. A welcome to the CAA they have not seen the benefits of doing yet.

This i believe would ease the pressure of the exams etc. Actually, not the last one, I have not got the figure i once had.

So next time you are in shout my handle and get ready a £10 note.

[eghi r20]

Hi Peeps

From what i gather its networking that is the real tool to get you in the door here, female wannabe you are on the right line, meet people doors open, maybe the guys were a bit nervous but come on blokes, you would say hello back at least would'nt you 'nerd alert'.

It looks like the intergrated route is the lots of cash fast track route to the airlines, and if you have it why not. i guess the likes of me & james T Kirk went mod, and used instructing to learn our trade whilst waiting for our time to come. Luck pays a big part and keeping current is a costly thing. But this is the best its been for about 6 yrs so go get em.

Me...... thus far in a holding pool with no start date as yet. please don't let me have to shell out for another IR in the mean time as in sim last year.


James T, i have been reading your posts and you are local to the south coast so whats your news, any more bites.

keep Lucky

EGHI