AEF Flying

[Thud Ridge]

Gents,

Does AEF flying still happen alongside the UAS? And what are the criteria needed for becoming an AEF pilot?

Thanks for your help

TR

[noonoos]

I'm on a UAS and we are most certainly paired with an AEF. After the new sheme has come into place they do a lot of flying with us students. I wouldn't have a clue how you go about joining them though. Sorry.

Noos

[Gainesy]

Thud,
Try sending a private message to Wholigan, who is one of the moderators on the Jetblast section of the forum. He is an AEF pilot I believe.

PS No F-105s on AEFs.:)

[Jambo Jet]

I used to be an AEF pilot, for me it was a holding post between flying training courses. However if you were a serving service pilot it should be easy to get involved, if you have not served in the past it will be much more difficult although not impossible. I believe the command chain goes upto Commandant CFS, so I guess his PA at Cranwell would be a good point of contact.

Once current on the Grob I believe you need to complete a flying ability test every 3 months or so to keep current. (A FAT consists of simple emergency leading to PFL, a spin if you do aeros and ccts various.)

Dunno if they'd have me back though, Ive got the control column of one I parked in a field in my garage.

[idle stop]

In the 'old days' you had to be a QSP to carry out AEF. All AEF pilots were either retired, ex National Service, or Short Service, and thus RAFVR, or serving QSP. The cadre of pilots on an AEF was mostly RAFVR. This was supplemented by the occasional 'holding' pilot, or by pilots in ground or other flying appointments who flew regularly with a particular AEF. For example, when I was at Shawbury as a QHI in the 80s I flew regularly with the AEF there. During the summer period for ATC/CCF 'Summer Camps' there would be a Signal sent around to all units asking for additonal volunteers from available pilots. That was how things were staffed then, and until the mid '90s I think.
I have the feeling that things might have changed, re experience, and probably not for the better.......

[boswell bear]

bit of a job for the "Boys" isn't it ;)

[idle stop]

Well, Boswell Bear, all I can say is that if you want to instil some decent knowledge it comes better from an Organ Grinder than a Monkey. Now don't get me started on the changes to the UAS system as well, or I'll set my old pal BEagle on you.

[buoy15]

One AEF pilot I met was a modest and lovely chap
Very happy as a Fg Off (retired Air Com) - had ejection back - 7000 hrs - jumped out of 5 ac successfully - always wore a cravat - drove a Morris Minor estate and was a philatelist
Not sure what the requirements are these days:hmm:

[boswell bear]

Well, Boswell Bear, all I can say is that if you want to instil some decent knowledge it comes better from an Organ Grinder than a Monkey. Now don't get me started on the changes to the UAS system as well, or I'll set my old pal BEagle on you.


is that why some AEF pilots don't even speak to the cadets they fly?

[Phil_McCrevis]

Back to the original question: I believe the requirements are CR with 500 hrs P1. Contact your local AEF for details of joining.

I've flown on AEF's and in my experience there's no pilots who would 'ignore' the cadets. I think you should get back in your box!

[reallydeskbound]

Having flown on several AEFs during my time in the Service the pilots have all been enthusiastic about what they do. The requirements for pilots today I am not entirely certain of but you certainly had to be prepared to give up a large amount of your own free time to satisfy a demanding flying programme of camps, weekday and weekend flying.
A large number of pilots were ex-Service and were either retired or flew civvy (couldn't resist the chance to turn an aircraft upside down regularly). Their enthusiasum for the task was reflected in the faces of the cadets who flew with them so don't beleieve the cr*p written above about them not speaking to cadets - how do you instill your love of flying into a youngster without speaking to him/her?
At the end of the day a lot of volunteers make the AEF system work, and don't forget the staff cadets who willingly spend hours briefing and strapping in their juniors in the hope of a trip at the end of the day. It brings aviation to a large number of people and exposes them to the RAF. Whether they join or not doesn't matter, it is like the UAS system, the more knowledge more people have of our Service the better it is for us!

[boswell bear]

I've flown on AEF's and in my experience there's no pilots who would 'ignore' the cadets. I think you should get back in your box!


hhhmmm so how is it many cadets I've spoken to had such a flight?

[PhoenixDaCat]

I was a staff cadet on 8 AEF, and my last flight in the Chipmunk was my 100th, on the day it was retired. In those 100 flights there were instances of pilots not saying much, but we all have our good days and our bad days don't we?

[BEagle]

My only experience of flying Space Cadets was in Chipmunks loaned to Scampton for the summer camp season.

I wasn't given any guidance as to what to do on the flights (20 min for ATC and 25 min for CCF), just that I had to stick to the times. Most cadets enjoyed their flights - although one was an obnoxious little git whose airline father had made him attend.....

Presumably there is more guidance nowadays; apart from 'No aerobatics if it's the cadet's first flight - and only fly aeros if he/she asks'?

After all, the idea of AEF flying is not to be an ego trip for the pilot whilst ignoring his passenger. If the revised University Air Cadet :yuk: system is leading to UAS students having their flying time wasted in such a way, then the fact needs to be formally reported to the UAS boss.....ahh, except that these days he could be some bluntie with no clue about flying.:ugh:

[mgdaviso]

It's not always the pilot who doesn't speak..... you put a 13 y/o cadet in a cockpit with an adult who they most likely have never met before, the cadt is nervous about their flight... Speaking to the boys at my AEF, sometimes they have to try real real hard to get the cadets to engage. Works both ways.
I've also had an OC AEF who flew me and was, to put it mildly quite rude and hardly spoke. Didn't learn much on that trip. He was an exception to the rule however.

Just out of interest - do AEF pilots receive pay for their time or is it purely voluntary?

[clicker]

It's not always the pilot who doesn't speak..... you put a 13 y/o cadet in a cockpit with an adult who they most likely have never met before, the cadt is nervous about their flight.

Would agree with that having been that kind of kid in the 60's. Having never flown before I didn't know what to expect, however having had that first flight I could not stop talking having found out that flying was fun.

Unable to go for a pilot licence due to eyesight but flown around 250hrs on many different types as a pax since, but the chippy was always a favorite being the first.

I wonder how many of you folks had that first flight in a chippy?

[mgdaviso]

First for me was a venture T2 motorglider, but spent many happy hours in the Chippy also

[Gainesy]

Its not always the case that the cadet being shy/nervous inhibits conversation. I once had an AEF flight in a Chippy which was also my first exposure to a rich Belfast accent. Basically I could hardly understand one word in three.:)

Aeros were good though.

[kluge]

Had my first EVER flight in an AEF chippy at Finningley through 148sqn ATC.

Told a porky to the pilot that I'd flown before and wanted aeros. 2 loops, aileron roll and a wingover. ABSOLUTELY LOVED IT and confirmed my passion for flying since being taken to Finningley air displays from 2 yers old !

I remember wearing the seat chute - the other ATC chaps having me walk out to the a/c with the straps pulled so tight that I walked like a chimp. Laughs all round. Remembered the bail out briefing. Slide canopy forward, undo seat harness, NOT parachute harness, stand on seat, jump out head first,count to 5 and pull cord d-handle. Yeah right !

That flight was approx 23 yrs go ! I fly aeros myself now but that was the one that did it for me ! Everytime I see a chippy up close and look inside it brings back so many memories, the black interior - fantstic !

Would love to track down the aircraft.

AEF - best thing. Hope that haven't chopped it in the UK.

K

[Skunkerama]

Jump, jump John.

Jump, jump Sir...................

[PhoenixDaCat]

On the day the chipmunk was retired (31.03.96) I got to fly in one of them over to Newton in a formation of 7. It was fantastic. All the pilots sat back and relaxed while the staff cadets flew them.

18 months ago I went to lapland, and recognised the voice of the pilot as being that of the guy I had flown to Newton with. Small world.

[clicker]

Would love to track down the aircraft.


What one was it and I'll switch to anorak mode and see what I can find out for you.

Clicker

[Wholigan]

Sorry for the delay in replying, but I don’t currently have access to the web during the week.

Yes – AEF flying does still occur alongside UASs. The AEF is now a part of the UAS and the aircraft, engineers (etc) on each of the sites are shared by the UAS and the AEF.

As far as the criteria for becoming an AEF pilot are concerned, not long ago you needed to have earned AND RETAINED military wings and have a minimum of 500 hours first pilot. This changed at the beginning of last year to allow “holding” pilots to undertake cadet flying. To fly cadets whilst holding, you now need to have completed “BFT” to a high average standard and be individually approved by Gp Capt EFT and Gp Capt Fg Tng. Innsworth decides who will be forwarded for approval and where and when they will be detached for their “holding” post.

For serving pilots to become AEF pilots, they merely need to ask their nearest AEF Flt Cdr. If they are not total tossers and there are spaces on the AEF, there is a high chance of getting in. Having said that, most AEFS do actually have a waiting list. Buying copious beers helps considerably!!!!!!! However, HQ EFT does still have the final say on whether or not you are accepted (they see your 5000).

As far as “boswell bear’s” statement is concerned, all I can do is invite him to visit Colerne to see for himself how we treat the cadets. Any time.

(Oh and by the way Gainesy, I have stopped being a JB moderator, but they don't seem to have got round to removing my name yet, despite being asked to do so.)

[kluge]

clicker - no record I'm afraid. It was one of the Finningley based ones circa 1983.


AEF is the dream retirement pastime and what better way than to sow the seed of flight in young kids. The EAA in the US has an 'eagle flight program' that does just that.

[Dendmar]

Kluge

I was attached to the AEF for several months Spring to Autumn and flew ATC every day. IIRC, there was mostly 2 of us doing the Flying. If you can rememember the date I may be able to track down the flight to one of a few Aircraft - the Authorisation sheets will have long gone and unfortunately we only put the number of Cadets flown on each sortie. So the end result is.. it may have been me but should be able to narrow down the possible Aircraft.

[kluge]

Dendmar

Many thanks for your generous offer of help sir. Unfortunately I do not have an exact date during that time. Suffice it say that there is a high probablilty that it was you that took for me that flight.

I would like to say to you that you (and your colleagues) had a significant positive impact on the life of one young man. For that I will always be grateful. That I am flying now (and flying aerobatics) is a testament to your example. My retirement plan is to offer similar flight experiences to younger generations although it will not be in the UK.

I hope that you are still flying, sir.

[Dendmar]

Kluge

Checked my Log book and found the 3 Aircraft that were used:

WG 407
WK 638
WK 590

Yes, I am still flying professionaly and still enjoying it!

[kluge]

Dendmar

Well fantastic. Many thx.
Shouldn't be too difficult to track down where they went.

Cheers

[Dendmar]

Kluge

This might prove useful:

http://www.ukserials.com/

[kluge]

Thx again - with the fear of turning into a spotty.

Looks like WK590 is in Belgium
WG407 is G-BWMX and WK638 is G-BWJZ at Breigton.

Next time I'm in UK I'll have to take a trip back up Norff.

Again thank you.

[clicker]

Goes to hanger, puts on anorak

==

WG 407 - Sold in 1996 became G-BWMX, Still current in original RAF marks, owners address in Cambridge with 12020 hrs at end of 2004.

WK 638 - Sold in 1995 became G-BWJZ, CofA expired Jan 2001 with 15580 hrs up to end of 1998.

WK 590 - Tentered 1996 became G-BWVZ, Still current in original RAF marks, Owners address in Belgium with 15463 hrs at end of 2004.

Two of of three still flying, very good.

==

Puts anorak back in hanger

[kluge]

Thx Clicker - pretty high airframe hrs.

By comparison a 1966 Cj6 I have flown is 6K hrs.

[scottyhs]

Hiya all,

Yeh wholigan is spot on with his listed requirements for AEF pilots.

Im a staff cdt up at 9 AEF and alot of our pilots are retired, and we have had a few who were on hold before being posted to a sqn or even up to valley. The pilots we have are all great and are really enthusiastic to fly and speak to the cadets, although i suppose that there is always an exception.