Air Services Australia

[tusitala]

Does anybody have any information if air services australia are recruiting previously trained controllers. I heard that they are short of staff, but do not know how often or when they run a course.

p.s have residency

[Blockla]

See link http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/employment/atc/information/Applicants_with_previous_ATC_experience.pdf

[VHEBA]

not sure what the go is? Have had an application with air services for awhile. They are recruiting for new intakes, but do not have any courses planned for previously trained controllers. They are having a reshuffle or something.
They are short of staff though, so put application in. It would be quicker to fill the gaps with previously trained controllers.

[Jerricho]

A word of caution........if you're considering, ask ASA to confirm the terms and pay conditions.

[tusitala]

I know pay is not as high as some, but what are the terms?

[turnleftnow]

Short of staff?? Rumour is that Canberra want to cut ATC staff

[SM4 Pirate]

TLN,

It's funny is it not, what CB would like to do at what we actually do are often very different things. Our RMP (resource management planner) says short almost everywhere, right now, retirement numbers insane for the next 12 months due to age profile issues; which is ongoing for the next 5 years.

Restructuring the way we do business, bringing on new technology etc. will save some bodies; but if it's more than 50 I'll go he! That's in 18 months; how do we get from here to there, hire bodies... So many more resources will actually be needed to 'bow wave' any restructure and we can't fill shifts now.

[tusitala]

if they are so short, why are there previously trained controllers who could fill the gaps, waiting until they decided to run a course.

[SM4 Pirate]

tusitala,

Perhaps It's cause they don't have a 'conversion course' fit for delivery; or simply they are unable to find an egg in the hen house.

They seem to be able to bring RAAFies across to the civil side, don't think it would be too much trouble to bring across FNs.

Also it may be jsut because it would need a brave manager to bring in newbies when the current philosophy is reduce, re-use, recycle; in that order...

[VHEBA]

I know the RAAF are recruiting, they are very short of controllers. Seven years enlistment though. Patience is the best thing, ASA should run a course soon, I hope so anyway.
Did not think it would be a problem to run a short course.

[BurglarsDog]

SM4 Pirate

Not wishing to get into a Civvy V Mil debate but, regarding employing RAAFies versus FNs - I think one of the biggest hurdles is the immigration requirements. Not saying that they couldnt be overcome; as often - where there is a will ( and a need) there is a way - as in the case of the RAAF lateral recruitment programme.

Also, when you consider that the RAAF use exactly the same docs ( MATS, AIP) to provide what is a civil APP/ TWR ATC service, particularly at Darwin , Townsville and Williamtown, its conceivable that the cross training of RAAFies may be a more expeditious solution to that of employing FNs - Maybe!

That said, I understand that to date, very few shortened "conversion" courses have been run, and that ASA have insisted on having their pound of flesh from any ab initio regardless of previous experience.

But thats only MHO / perception.

Im sure there are a few crossovers out there who could paint a more accurate picture.

[SM4 Pirate]

BD, Agree whole heartedly, most FNs seem to be aware of the 'residency' issues and even those pre-approved seem to get looked over, too hard basket.

I believe the 'original RAAF' conversion course (where it wasn't via a full short term course or full conversion course such as joining a FIS to ATC course) was actually labelled the "ICAO Conversion course" and had a couple of FNs on it?

Now it's all too hard... But wait, breaking news, Civil ATC in OZ is 200 over staffed, big "official" announcement due soon, funny I had 12 calls to come to work on my last 2 days off... Sure, we're flush with staff, NOT!

Why are we over, you guessed it we staff for peak traffic (ie 5 or 6 ATC for 5 consoles open etc.), which only lasts for 5 hours a day, 3 in the morning on most positions and 2 hours in the arvo; so minimum staffing will actually be 2 or 3 people (average consoles open + 1) in most groups not the current 5 or 6; bingo 200 saved... Oh yeah plus a few part timers for the peaks; every day for 5 days of the week and a morning and arvo on the weekend...

[Jerricho]

We've been here before on PPRuNe regarding experienced ex-pats and alike joining up with ATS providers and not starting on the bottom rung (I'll try and find the thread).

There have been some organisations out there that do/did recognise previous and pay for it.........how many Ozmates round here went up to Hong Kong in the 80s and 90s for that little money spinner? Nav Canada's experienced controller program (which we could debate on another thread) also started their FNs with a reasonable relocation and pay package, as well as put the wheels in motion for visas.

Maybe an adjustment in policy may not be a bad thing.........even thought you guys are overstaffed ;)

[VHEBA]

I realise there are issues with F/Ns, but I am one of many i know who do not have any constraints on them and hold australian residency. There is no reason, just do not seem to be running courses, but are employing new intakes

[tennis]

I can tell you why they don't employ experienced controllers - they don't know what they are doing! Seriously, quote....."After the first reshuffle of management, we as management don't know what it is we can and cannot do at the moment" In other words their not doing anything!!! I visited a centre recently and they are really lost as to what is really happening and what is going to happen in the future.:ugh: :ugh:

[GWYN]

Well no change there then, eh Tennis?

[VHEBA]

Anyone any idea when they will know what they are doing. How long should people wait. Cannot apply for new intake so am stuck until they sort out a course for previously trained.
Frustrating!:ugh:

[aluminium persuader]

So who's gonna be the first to mention Project Genesis? OOPS! :eek:

Am I right in thinking that all the experienced controller courses planned for this year have been cancelled?

I'd love to go out there too, but it looks a bit volatile at the mo!

[VHEBA]

is there anybody out there who may know of any up coming courses?Some good news please!!!!!

[Chapi]

Don't know about upcoming courses ... especially since the staff reductions of late have/will include traing and college staff!

[VHEBA]

Thanks anyway.:{

[Green on, Go!]

Found this here (http://airservicesaustralia.nga.net.au/fnt_info_page.cfm?JobID=2268&info_mode=new_app&MemberID=0) a few days ago, which may or may not indicate some intent on the part of Airservices to employ international controllers.
Hope that helps...

[Shitsu_Tonka]

There has been a major 'restructure' of the training, and administrative side of the organisation. The result appears to be that nobody is sure what is happening.

With a lot of new technology needing implementing soon, the consensus amongst the few left is that something is going to give very soon - possibly requiring a massive recruitment to plug the gaps.

This scenario doesnt seem to have filtered up to whoever is now making the decisions - apparently they all live in a place called Canberra, which is not closely aligned with ...... reality.

[tennis]

:ugh:
I know of some people in centres who have taken over 2 1/2 years to get their rating because of staffing problems to train them - not their ability! What does that say about an organisation? BUT, there always seems to be jobs for 'the boys'. ASA, if you were a normal business, you would be out of business in less than 6 months. You are a joke!!!:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[VHEBA]

Thanks for all the feed back. Sounds like they are moving. Will keep an eye on the situation. :ok: