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jtr
10th May 2006, 05:22
So now that the quitters* are allowed to rejoin on changed terms and as a %age they are largely close to use-by date, can we expect the Age 60 to get voted through relatively easily when the package finally gets put on the table?
i.e.
Age 60 B minus
No Bypass pay for the year 6 s/o's
DEF/O's on bases on C minus
92hr overtime threshold
Pay increase (2% seems reasonable, we had one only 5 years ago)
14hr 3 man crew
And when do we get choclate fish at the meetings? And is it one per member or two?
And for the record, if you are on an extension, don't whine to me about the conditions.
I am B-scale, I can't help it if they put more money in my bank than yours each month now... No one put a gun to your head.
www.iasco.com
www.hawaiiaaviation.com
www.flightinternational.com
etc
* Quitters used until someone comes up with a less provocative term, and no,
self serving pr!cks
is not less provocative. (Just to save anyone bothering to contribute it)

BusyB
10th May 2006, 07:53
jtr,

"%age they are largely close to use-by date"

Having looked at who actually left, you couldn't be more wrong.

Some of us will be trying to ensure your predictions will also prove to be as wrong.

Don't you worry though, just carry on wallowing!!;)

jtr
10th May 2006, 08:41
Well instead of just looking at who left, I counted.

Of the first 100 on the seniority list, 64 are either EX or Expelled members. It is not until you get to about seniority #400 (on the AOA list) that the tide starts to turn. From #400 to #1000, there is only a sprinkling of EX or Expelled (with the occaisional block of LEP's tipping the scales, who seem to be mostly EX) so I am not sure exactly how it is that I "couldn't be more wrong" but am willing to listen.

BusyB if you are out to prove my predictions of our future wrong, then more power to you. I hope you can, and will be more than happy if I am wrong. However....:hmm:

christn
10th May 2006, 08:56
jeez, you need to get a life!!

BusyB
10th May 2006, 12:44
Well Ken,That was a nice little victory you gave jtr!!

jtr
10th May 2006, 13:00
Children, quiet in the back please.

Just for clarification...

I have nothing against most who left ( a few exceptions), my stir is at those who are now going to rejoin, now that the "battle is over" and try and get ideal conditions for themselves before they scoot out the door. The AOA is on a mission to get membership at any cost, and this is a fairly good example of it. I suppose I am one of the more militant, and therefore a black sheep amongst the flock, which is another reason why I am probably going to leave after the RP06 vote.

If you read my initial post carefully you will see I was only talking about retreads. If you fall into this catergory, and take offence to my post, then I tip my hat to you and say "Thank you, my work here is done"

jtr
10th May 2006, 13:38
I am not trying to convince you to join, I am telling you that imo anyone that rejoins is a self serv... you get it.

I agree, there are too many factions, A/B/C scale, based, non based, LEP etc etc. Add to the list the new DEFO scale soon I suppose, (they only waited 13 years to try it on again), but all of that is another post in itself.

The basis of my post is that I am dissappointed at the recent EGM since I imagine it will allow ssp's to rejoin, and their only reason for rejoining is in an effort to get age 60 or similar. There are no improvements in conditions that I have seen in any of the proposals.

The union is more divided now that it has ever been, so they (retreads) can hardly say that we now have direction. So why would they bother joining.

Plese don't take any of it personally. We are all entitled to our opinions, different as they may be. If I step on toes expressing mine, then I apologise, but we are all big boys and girls aren't we?

K Barley
10th May 2006, 17:32
This is fun to watch. Those guys I fired in 2001 must be completely disgusted with you lot.

cpdude
10th May 2006, 21:55
Ah, all clear now, you are saying that nobody should rejoin the union because they would be self serving and therefore not of good standing.
Would someone please try harder to convince me to rejoin?

Ken, don't give them the satisfaction. I'm going to join and sit right next to jtr and others and just flash them my big grin until they get so annoyed they just leave!:{ :p :E

zulapels
11th May 2006, 04:30
What have you done for your fellow human beings?

Just eating the cake and served your own selfish narrow interests?

You might have felt more connected, dignity and had a better relationship to your self and your family if you had done "the right thing"

It's mainly your loss and know you are the kind of guy who will suffer in silence.
Like your wife, kids and fellow co-workers.

Do you want your son to be like you and your dad?
or break the circle and gain respect?

Try not taking things personally and always be Mr. right, give unconditional love,support and seek win/win

" It's always the right time to do the right thing"
Martin Luther King

tifters
11th May 2006, 08:34
I got what you said jtr. It is a huge problem we have now with possibly the 60 vote having more yeahs and probably enough for the 50% vote(hopefully not!). This will just further erode any respect the union has, especially when they tell us that is is a great deal blah blah blah!!! Hopefully most of the rejoiners want to be back for good reasons but as jtr has pointed out, the demographics arent good!!!! I have stayed in the union although at times i didnt agree with them, i felt we still had a chance. This latest batch of voting proposals that will come our way will have a long lasting affect on us all, we need to be smart and think long term....if not i will give myself a 1.5% pay rise!!!!

BusyB
11th May 2006, 12:11
Firstly, a hell of a lot more B-scalers than A-minus scalers left the association over the past 5 years (B-Scalers include C to Z scales for this).

Secondly, if you help everybody by helping yourself whats the problem. Not joining, or remaining in, the AOA is spiteing both yourself and everyone else.

Age 60. Yes, It will probably get negotiated for the short term and then it will be superceded by Age Discrimination Legislation that will probably end up with a 65 retirement age. Lets spite ourselves and not get anything out of it in the meanwhile!!

Tifters, please tell me how you get a 1.5% payrise with subs at 1.25% and a 25% discount if you've been in 8 years.

Its down to individuals what you do, but anyone who thinks that we will do better by just accepting what CX throw at us is just being naive. Even with the reduced numbers in the AOA at present, improvements in various areas, admittedly minor, are happening. To improve bigger items we need a bigger union. Its not rocket science.:ok:

jtr
11th May 2006, 13:40
"Firstly, a hell of a lot more B-scalers than A-minus scalers left the association over the past 5 years (B-Scalers include C to Z scales for this)."

Mate have a look at the list (It is under seniority just in case you aren't sure) and you will see the % of A vs B that left is pretty one sided. #521 is where it becomes B scale.

nudger
12th May 2006, 02:24
"This is fun to watch. Those guys I fired in 2001 must be completely disgusted with you lot."

NOPE Mr. Barley... we too find it all quite amusing!
:D :D

Mr. Bloggs
12th May 2006, 02:39
KB, not as disgusted as some families are with you and the current DFO. Two 49ers dead on suspicious circumstances and with one of the deceased wife, leaving a child with no parents.

Can’t help to think you and NR contributed to that decision. Something to be quite proud of.

KB, I realised you signed the letter, you are too stupid to think of this on your own, then we must thank the current DFO and the out-gone DT.

Old China Driver
12th May 2006, 04:42
Can't help but agree with the sentiments touched upon by Mr. Bloggs. The firing of the 49er's was more than 'just' a response to the AOA's industrial action. It was a cruel, vindictive, malicious and craven attack on a group of individuals who, for the most part, were not aware that they were even on the company's 'hit list'. That would be bad enough in and of itself. The management then lowered themselves to the level of butchers when they then embarked on a campaign of victimisation of the men they had just fired. They broke privacy laws, lied to government departments (IRD as an example), and blacklisted them with many of the worlds major airlines that would have given them refuge. Worst of all was the effect it had on the mens families and loved ones. Many a wife shed a sleepless night in tears. Many children had their lives turned upside down and fractured. I suggest that any of you who read this put aside your own thoughts about the 'sins' of the 49er's, and contemplate the sheer viciousness of what 'our' management did to our friends and colleagues. As Mr Bloggs mentioned, two of those same colleagues are now dead, one of their wives also dead, and a 3 year old orphan left to grow up without his parents. I am ashamed to think that some of those 'managers' used to be considered my friends. I can understand how someone utterly devoid of morals like Turnbull or Tyler could play their part in this tragedy, but I am still bewildered how many of the 'middle management' of Flight Ops can face themselves after what they took part in. As long as I live, I will remember what happened. No amount of false 'good will' from these people will get me to forget what was done to basically decent, hard working men. In the annals of industrial terrorism, what our management did should go down in infamy. As to the creatures involved, I can barely look at them without feelling ill. Remember, these leapords will never change their spots. They are a disgrace as human beings. OCD

K Barley
13th May 2006, 00:12
So nice to see you again OCD, it's been a long time. While everything you say is true it worked didn't it? In fact the 'sins of the 49ers' as you call them were no worse than yours or anyone else. To blame us for those unfortunate deaths however is a bit of a stretch.

We set out to bust your union and it worked. So well in fact you cut those guys loose last year. What you have left could hardly be called a union, more like the video club it once was. The bickering and infighting is even better than it was when I was in the chair, I can't help but laugh. Like I said, this is fun to watch.

Please be guided accordingly. ;)

cpdude
13th May 2006, 02:39
KB, better watch out when you gloat about death and hardship on others...it sometimes has a way of backfiring on you!:=

6feetunder
13th May 2006, 11:38
death and hardship on others.

That's an interesting comment dud, your support of the 49ers consisted of....?

ojay
13th May 2006, 23:04
agree with the comments from ocd;also cannot really believe that the real kb is trawling these pages.If so,very much hope that the 'just desserts' is handed out some day - completely morally bankrupt.

frankg
14th May 2006, 02:01
Another intelligent response from cpdud. He ran away very early in the game because he's a cheap c***. Now it's cheaper to get back in so he's a born again AOA supporter.

What a moron.

cadence
14th May 2006, 03:35
I have to say cpdude I agree with you, what goes around comes around.

Deserting your colleagues will definitely come back on you.

cpdude
14th May 2006, 04:31
Ahhh, the ramblings of the few! Over 86% wanted us back, how do you explain that?:hmm:

Mr. Bloggs
14th May 2006, 10:00
Let me see, idiots?

christn
14th May 2006, 11:04
Nothing like like a mature, reasoned debate!

And this is ...........

6feetunder
14th May 2006, 13:20
Over 86% wanted us back, how do you explain that?

A union that wants you back I don't want to belong to. My money is better off helping those that need it, not contributing to the Gen Sec Pfund.

cpdude
14th May 2006, 17:39
A union that wants you back I don't want to belong to. My money is better off helping those that need it, not contributing to the Gen Sec Pfund.

Go to the CPA then!:}

cpdude
15th May 2006, 02:28
cpdud, you should spend your money buying friends...
all you have done is increased the amount of idiots in the aoa.:D

I think I did just that...over 1000 of them!:} :E :ok:

Mr. Bloggs
15th May 2006, 21:56
No cpdude, just 86% of them. Glad to say I was not one of them. I guess I will have to watch my back now, so the your likes don't put a knife in it AGAIN!

Say it Loud and say it Proud, "I am a QUITTER".

Welcome back.

cpdude
16th May 2006, 00:29
No cpdude, just 86% of them. Glad to say I was not one of them. I guess I will have to watch my back now, so the your likes don't put a knife in it AGAIN!
Say it Loud and say it Proud, "I am a QUITTER".
Welcome back.

Let me guess...your a S/O and wasn't even around at the time of the firing!:p

Mr. Bloggs
16th May 2006, 09:18
Please, let me guess. You are a Senior Pilot. You are selfish and quitter. You more than likely knew most of the Captains that were fired, yet you decided to abandon them. Quite a character trait.

You signed the deal in ‘94 because it did not affect you and with an implied threat by CX. In ‘99, there was a another threat and because you signed the first, the company knew you would sign the second.

In 2001, you more than likely voted for LIA but when the 49ers were fired, you and your friends jumped in the life boat and cut the ropes. Now after five years(sailing in the wake of the mother ship) you realise the ship did not sink and you are now wanting to get back as you see it sailing away to where you want to go (age 60).

I can go on, but yes, I was around for the firing and yes I am a S/O. Sound confusing?

What I can’t understand is why did most of the AOA members throw you a rope and not an anchor.

Pleasure to have you back, I am sure you will be asset to the AOA.

FlexibleResponse
16th May 2006, 15:07
Old China Driver,

Thank you for your occassional appearance and your words that always cut through the crap and go straight to the heart of the matter. You are very much appreciated by the many experienced and hard workers at CX. Also may I say that your insight reveals the dark underside of some who dare raise their heads on these forums for exactly who and what they are.

Flex