MBA - Advice requested

[foormort]

I am a serving RAF FJ pilot and I am wanting to gain an MBA qualification. Initially I thought I would do a 1yr full time cse after my exit but the loss of earnings is a real worry. My plan is now do attempt a distance learning or part time cse. Part time would be preferable to me simply for the benefits of meeting other students. So, has anyone completed a part time MBA whilst serving, did the RAF allow for the absence or was it a no go. Any advice on selection of a school would be great too. I am on receive......

[Safeware]

Did a part time MSc as part of the job. As it was linked to the job, not a problem with time for the modules, but had to do the 'homework' in my own time.

Outcme may depend on whether or not the one pulling the purse strings sees it as professional development which the RAF will be able to gain from or an excuse to get get an MBA. IMHO there are to many who think the latter rather than the former.

sw

[robin]

...and the MBA is not always seen as a meaningful qualification in the outside world.

[dantura]

Foormort

I'm currently doing an LLB, part-time day release. Fortunately being a blunty sometimes has its advantages!
I think it all depends on your job (if you can be released 1 day/week term time) and if your boss OK's it. I would highly recommend an attendance course over a correspondence when it comes to higher ed.
Pop down to your friendly ed centre and speak to the education and training adviser (usually a civvie nowadays), helped me out loads, they even phone around the uni's on your behalf.
Hope it helps,
good luck

D

[Safety_Helmut]

Did a part time MSc as part of the job. As it was linked to the job, not a problem with time for the modules, but had to do the 'homework' in my own time.That's not how I remember things Safeware.

S_H

[Safeware]

S-H,

Ah, but that was the dissertation, which had a direct relationship to work and your comments and the rest of the team's helped.

Cheeky bu99er anyway, I gave you time!

sw

[B Fraser]

...and the MBA is not always seen as a meaningful qualification in the outside world.


MBA = Means Bugger All

Prince2 is much more useful in opening doors.

[MarkMcC]

Notwithstanding the Master of Bugger All debate, go have a look at www.mba.athabascau.ca

Athabasca was a pioneer in online learning, and consistently makes the FT top 100 EMBA list. I'm two thirds of the way through the project management stream, and have found that it combines well with duty and travel.

[maxburner]

Don't the services offer an MBA through Shrivenham any more?

[teeteringhead]

Wasn't Shrivenham an MDA - as in Defence??

All MBAs aren't equal - if you've got one you'll always be asked "Where from??"

For distance learning OU Business School is good and has a good reputation, and you can do it (within reason) at yer own pace. And Auntie Betty will help pay for it......

[Aeronut]

Prince2 is much more useful in opening doors.

You mean the course formerly known as Prince 2

[stiknruda]

Prince 2 is just a methodology - common sense with new names! It should take about 4 days to qualify. I have seen some real thickys with that qualification, I know - I is one! Comparing it with an MBA is like comparing oranges and carrots.

As for opening doors, it all depends what you want to do. Having been in business for 19 years since leaving, I think that the MBA has passed its sell by date.

Stik

[foormort]

Stik
I know some people view MBAs as 'passed their sell by date' but I have little experience of business outside of the military since obtaining my BA prior to joining. I want to be able to make an informed decision at my 38 point and I want the neccessary qualifications in my pocket so I don't spend a year with no income and substantial education and living expenses. I feel unsure exactly which areas I want to pursue so I view a part time MBA as allowing me to experience a variety of areas and identify which would interest me in a second career. So I am using the MBA in my mind as avehicle to help me identify my interest industries and allow a potential employer to see I have some relevant qualification and limited experience.

[airborne_artist]

There is some merit in taking an MBA when you are planning a massive sideways change in career, eg FJ aircrew to anything outside aviation. Just take with a pinch of salt the claims of earnings increases etc. by the MBA schools, and accept that many prospective employers will not know how to value your Service gained skills and experience.

Applying for advertised jobs when the time comes will be possibly the worst way of going about things, and very depressing. Networking will be much better, particularly if you can network with people who have left say two plus years ago who are now established in their orgs. Those companies will be in a much better position to recognise value, and may well have such a positive experience of ex-Service people that they work hard to make you a good offer.

[LFittNI]

.....and enjoy it. I did an MBA immediately on leaving the service, and would thoroughly recommend it. BUT......
.....choose your business school with care. I managed to squeeze into LBS, which, with Cranfield and Durham I would rate as first class. Second rank would include Bath, Bristol, Henley etc. (There are several league rankings which makes things confusing).
I would not advise the OU--it does not seem to produce the depth/width/experience which "school-based" courses do, and, from an employer's point of view, I would rate it only as good as the old-style A-levels. Harsh perhaps, but when you compare the OU with the midnight oil burning pressure of a "school" environment, well, I'd take the schools man all the time.
Imho, the benefits of an MBA are 40% business and management knowledge-gaining (theory mostly but highly testing personally) and 60% networking for career enhancement in commercial life--as an ex-NCO I needed all the contacts I could get. Other people find vastly different benefit ratios.
Tip--do the Princeton Test and see how you score.
Good luck--you can always go for broke and try Princeton itself, Chicago or the Charles River Tech!

[wingnut135]

I'm just about done with my EMBA at Oxford and work has been quite kind with time off, though it has at times been a bit of a push. Said Business School's program is new but moving up in the rankings. It also has a handy modular format where you spend a week every couple of months in Oxford and do assignments, etc, in the weeks or months between. The program starts in January amd there are 14 one-week in-residence periods over a 22-month course length. I will say that it ain't easy!! I should also mention that I've beenon exchange with the RAF during the program. I just talked about it with my sqn boss and he bought into giving me the time off for the in-residence blocks.

[Two's in]

Foormort,

At the risk of stating the obvious (not something that usually bothers me) don't overlook the fact that as a Commissioned Officer in HM Forces who has been selected and successfully trained for being at the pointy end of noisy whizz-jets, you have already demonstrated management, leadership, and personal skills well in excess of most of your peers. If you can be successful at that (and you clearly are), then business will be a walk in the park for you. The MBA may be useful, especially if you can get it done largely on Betty Windsor's time, but as others have alluded, if you ever get in to a urinating contest over where your MBA was obtained, the job simply isn't worth it.

Most ex-military types woefully underestimate the life skills and experience they have accumulated while serving, and subsequently the value they bring to a commercial organization. If you walked in to any business tomorrow, I can guarantee your planning, decision making, briefing and command skills would be superior to a lot of others. Clearly there's a bit more to business than briefing an accurate TOT, but some people never develop those basic skills because they have never had the opportunity to practice them.

Finally, as A-A pointed out, network, network, network. You will know somebody, somewhere, who knows somebody, somewhere who needs skills like yours. If you keep a clear boundary between networking and socialising, you will do alright. People in business expect you to do it and like everything else, practice makes perfect.

[foormort]

Two's in,
I don't underestimate the value of the experience and skills that HM forces have given me but I feel that I need something to demonstrate to a potential employer that my skills are transferable. If I walk into an interview and I can say yes I had some skills but I found the MBA an excellent way of developing them and introducing plenty of new ones, I feel it would make me more competitive.
Wingnut 135 and LFittNI,
I am interested to know how you decided on your schools, did you apply to more than one school for that intake period or did you put all your eggs in one basket? Wingnut I just cannot imagine my next boss (I don't know whether my next tour will be flying or ground) will allow 14 weeks absence over a 22 month period, I may be wrong. Your situation sounds rather unique in the RAF.

[LFittNI]

Foormort:-
Your sentence:-
"If I walk into an interview and I can say yes I had some skills but I found the MBA an excellent way of developing them and introducing plenty of new ones, I feel it would make me more competitive."
That to my mind is a perfect attitude to display--more power to your arm!
You ask how I chose my school. I chose on reputation alone and assessed the networking possibilities--full of bravado after visiting the schools and talking to people there, I applied to HBS and LBS and took the Princeton Test. At my LBS interview, I mentioned I had applied to HBS as well as several others, and played my card of wanting to get back into engineering industry (this was the time of severe manufacturing down-turn). This seemed to elicit some patriotic sympathy!

[Pristina]

The MBA is useful if linked to experience, it is difficult to change career (military to civilian) and specialism (aircrew to whatever). The comments on where the MBA is obtained are also relevent, OU has a good reputation. You also have to be careful about what type of MBA you take some are finance based others generalist.

The employment agencies I have spoken to recently are looking at you and what competences you bring to the new job not what you did in the past. As stated earlier the networking is important together with the strength of the MBA Alumni as 70% of jobs are not advertised (similar to the PMA mafia) as this opens doors.

Prince 2 is a learning excercise (you read a book and sit the exam at the end of the week), it only helps to open doors if you can demonstrate that you have used the theory in practice. Suggest a job in an IPT? (based on career broadening) as this may give you project experience.

Good luck

[MarkMcC]

I have often thought of my MBA as a vocabulary course that would help to bridge the gap between the service and civilian worlds. I wholeheartedly agree with many of the comments made above - when I made the choice it was about differentiating myself from the pack. That being said, an MBA in Project Management combines well with my tp and P.Eng. background...

I guess it's all about where you want to go. I've ran into some rather sharp people in my program who are using the tools and techniques that we are taught to good advantage. On the other hand, there are those who blindly apply everything and wonder why it doesn't work...much like life, really...