ANTARCTIC STRIP

[Deejay 1]

Was watching Australian Story Mon nite, the one with Sen Barnaby "I don't know what I stand for or will sell" Joyce's trip to the Antarctic.

He mentioned that a 5000m x 100m wide packed ice (doh!) strip was being built ready for the 2006/07 summer.

Does anyone know any more details about this ie where, max plane size it can handle etc.

Cheers

[*Lancer*]

5000m of non-melting ice would be enough for anything. Ice is pretty strong, and only the stopping distance is affected (by 60% or something like that).

The strip at McMurdo (US) will take anything. The strip at the NZ station used to take starlifters, so it can probably take anything too. Mind you, the only thing we could send down there is a Herc - plenty of room! :)

[ZeeDoktor]

Chaps,

packed ice is in fact stronger than concrete. Anything we have ever built that flies could land there, you'll want to make sure your auto brakes are working though... and you better be reverser equipped.

Cheers

- Balt

[compressor stall]

http://www.aad.gov.au

Click on the first news link - lots more info if you keep digging.

As an issue of semantics - it's not "packed ice" - rather laser levelled ice with a compressed snow cover. Bare ice can "blister" badly with solar radiation in the "milder" climes at Casey - hence the insulating snow blanket. Friction co-efficient is apparently the same as a wet runway. :8

If you have a penchant for building ice runways, you might enjoy the following bedtime reading (http://www.crrel.usace.army.mil/techpub/CRREL_Reports/reports/M98_01.pdf). :ok:

[disco_air]

Thinking of including that in your WA Flyaway must visits? (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=220449)??? :p
...Disco

[compressor stall]

Nah, not our coming trip. In any case, I've been there, done that! :p

[PLE Always]

G'day,


Was lucky enough to hitch a ride with a Canadian Forces crew in a CC-130 up to Alert in Nunavut, far far far far north Canada (82N only 816 km from North Pole). It was a warm -32C with the first hint of spring twilight just before lunch time.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alert%2C_Nunavut

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFS_Alert


Some good photos of the wreckage of the CC-130 that crashed there in 91. :sad: http://www.troywoodintarsia.com/alert/ltgalleryfrank.html

As far as braking action goes, I found the following figures (First Figure is JBI, second RCR):

Compacted Snow (< -15C) 0.45 / 11
Snow Covered 0.3 / 7.5
Compacted Snow (> -15C) 0.25 / 5.5
Cold Ice (-10C) 0.2 / 3.6

In that 0.25 and less range charts indicate a increase of 100% for braking distance (no reverse) and along the same lines crosswind limits come down into the single digits too? I think engine out with a bit of adverse crosswind a 5000m runway would look very appealing.

It's a concern when half the crew has fallen on their arse on the way out to the aircraft and you're worried about asymetric thrust on engine starts being enough to start you sliding!? :ooh:

PLE...

[bellsux]

Lancer,

Could you tell me how to find this "non melting ice" you speak of... I could finaly leave aviation and make a fortune selling that stuff!!! :) :) :)

[Gyro drifter]

Lancer,

Could you tell me how to find this "non melting ice" you speak of... I could finaly leave aviation and make a fortune selling that stuff!!!

Yeh its called dry ice (aka frozen carbon dioxide)... And no it doesnt melt as melting is a process where a solid turns to a liquid.

Just thought id point out the obvious.

Gyro

[bellsux]

ahhh.. I love it when Dr Karl types get all touchy and technical over light hearted banter on prune. Anyway I guess you can put up your proposal to the AAD Shipping and Air Ops guys with your dry ice paving at Casey. Just thought I would point out the obvious too that it is infact frozen water up the hill, well at least it was the last time I was there as the only dry ice you will find is in the boffins lab.

[Guppy Driver]

Is it just me, or has this once promising thread just established a new low - even for Dunnunda?

[*Lancer*]

Non-melting ice is ice that is below 0 deg. If the atmospheric temperature is above zero, the ice surface will remain at zero deg, and melt. The thin layer of water on the ice surface vastly reduces friction.

Frozen water tends to be more 'sticky' the colder it gets. That's why 'wet' snow occurs when the temperature is warmer than that for 'dry' snow. 'Wet' snow being snow that can be moulded easily (into a snowball for example), at temps above -15. 'Dry' snow can't be moulded, and has more friction.

At least, that's how I figure it :)

Non melting ice would be great in my bundy, but sadly the bar has to be sub-zero in the first place. :{

[Deejay 1]

Hello all

Comp Stall

Thanks for the link, very informative.

PLE Always

Also thanks for the links, love the Polar Bears.

Wonder if they'll have the firies down there doing a welcome spray, with sea water as that doesn't freeze or even anti freeze, on the inaguaral flight.

Cheers

[Deaf]

sea water as that doesn't freeze

It does once it is out of the sea. In fact Zero F was defined as the lowest freezing point of a salt(NaCl) water mix.

Thats why a freezer should be at IIRC -18C so that stuff like meat and fish freeze and stay frozen rather than slushy.