The JPA Cocktail Party - I Sh!t you not

[CrabInCab]

I am reliably informed by a mate at work who has a mate working in town that Air Marshall David Pocock, DCDS(Pers) will be hosting a cocktail party to:
"Celebrate the sucessful role out of JPA to the RAF"
On Tues night! Anyone else heard about this, most importantly anyone know where, a visit from a few hundred ppruners might focus the 3*'s mind.
:mad:

[Pontius Navigator]

RAF Club would be a good place to start looking.

[Roland Pulfrew]

I am reliably informed by a mate at work who has a mate working in town that Air Marshall David Pocock, DCDS(Pers) will be hosting a cocktail party to:
"Celebrate the sucessful role out of JPA to the RAF"
On Tues night! Anyone else heard about this, most importantly anyone know where, a visit from a few hundred ppruners might focus the 3*'s mind.
:mad:

Crab

Calm down. Calm down. I understand it has been "postponed".

PS. Marshal only one 'l'

[BEagle]

It'd be about as palatable as 'Two Shags' Prescott giving a talk about marital fidelity to the local WI!

Incidentally, did anyone see the piccie of him on the front of the Daily Mail (not that I buy it, but it was free on my flight to Germany!)... He looks like some old mafia hood.....Don Prescotti?

Hope that this JPA lunacy is sorted out soon - and that the idiot in charge falls on his sword in a public way!

At least for us BOF retirees, 'Paymaster' worked OK last week!

PS - Roly, I gather from the RAAF that 'PFI' stands for 'The Poms are Flaming Idiots'!

[Pontius Navigator]

A Google search for 'raf jap' is instructive:

for instance - http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=35037 or

http://www.army.mod.uk/servingsoldier/condofserv/mm/modernised_tri_service_pay_and_allowance.htm

The latter gives the game away as to the rush. ". . . single IT system to be introduced to the Royal Air Force in late 2005, followed by the Royal Navy in early 2006 and the Army in late 2006."

[Could be the last?]

I've heard that they are already considering a retreat on the JPA fiasco and reverting to SAMA etc.... Anybody heard anything similar?:confused:

Still haven't been able to log on for any considerable amount of time to sort out my claims. However, if you know you are going away and will require Rates etc you can use the printable forms embedded deep in the website and get an advance! They pay you using BACS, and then have to wait for JPA to claim it back - Winner!:ok:

[ScapegoatisaSolution]

CouldBeTheLast
You can not use the manual Advance form if you have a logon. I tried to use the legacy form but was told to use the manual JPA form. Tried using that but was told to use online JPA as I had a logon. Tried getting the online advance (sheer bollox of doing an advance for every day you are away and not just for a period!) but it showed a 'policy violation' although I only asked for £80 a day to cover food and hotac. At the height of scribbly stupidity I was informed that I had to show receipts for the Advance:hmm:
In all I tried to get an advance 4 weeks before the trip knowing the problems with JPA. However, I got back from the trip last week after a week away and still have not got the money in my account! I did refuse to go unless they paid for all the hotac on a GPC, which they did and it saved me being out of pocket for hundreds of pounds whilst they sort out JPA.

[CBA_caption]

Ah, the new GPC. Another duck nibbling away. How dare we use a corporate credit card for business expence when there's perfectly good money in our own accounts. Deserves a thread all of its own.

Still wating for mine, 3 months after sending the form in. Really looking forward to the entertaining, yet informative video I have to watch in order to use a credit card!

If the paperwork I was given is accurate then even if I don't use it I have to go to accounts or whatever they're called this week and audit my lack of spending on a monthly basis. Oh to be in the glory days of the Air Force in the 50s and 60s. Wait a minute...

CBA

[Pontius Navigator]

We had our GPC withdrawn and have to make a fresh business case why we should have one.

Well mine would have been withdrawn except I 'failed' the course and refused to sign for it. The course was CBT using a mouse and I got RSI (from an old games injury - tetrix :} ) and refused to try again.

[Could be the last?]

SGS...

There is obviously confusion somewhere. I was talked through the procedure by my very informed accounts lady. She told me exactly where to go and it was inside the JPA vortex. She even told me how much I could claim and then promptly paid the money into my account. Can't say fairer than that.:ok:

However, JPA still sucks the big 1.......

[Melchett01]

DCDS(Pers) will be hosting a cocktail party


Are you sure it's a cocktail party and not a wake for the deceased? :E

[Rev I. Tin]

However, JPA still sucks the big 1.......

What? Your computer keeps going down on you......?

:D

[BellEndBob]

The real reason it was cancelled is because none of the guests could access JPA to get the advances on the their accom at the RAF Club.:E

[Almost_done]

From the RAF's own forums; (names removed to protect the innocent)

Name:
Date: 27 Apr 2006 16:33
Subject: JPA Insecure?
Message: Having managed to access the JPA system, I am little concerned that the software does not appear to use SSL (Secure Sockets Layer) protection - the https address and little padlock you get when using on-line banking, etc.

This apparent lack of security would allow plain-text data to run around the RLI. As the system is used to record and display personal details, including bank details etc, I find this very unusual.

If I am correct in my assumption about the lack of SSL, anyone smart enough could monitor the network and pick up the personal details that are being sent back and forth by JPA.

I have sent feedback to the AFPAA infoCentre and await their response but thought I'd share my concerns.



Name:
Date: 03 May 2006 13:08
Subject: Re: Re: JPA Insecure?
Message: Excerpts from the Data Protection Act 1998 Ch 29.

Principal Seven

Appropriate technical and organisational measures shall be taken against unauthorised or unlawful processing of personal data and against accidental loss or destruction of, or damage to, personal data.

Interpretation of Principal Seven

Having regard to the state of technological development and the cost of implementing any measures, the measures must ensure a level of security appropriate to-

(a) the harm that might result from such unauthorised or unlawful processing or accidental loss, destruction or damage as are mentioned in the seventh principle, and
(b) the nature of the data to be protected.

Now this is information freely available to all open the RAF Intranet here (http://www.raf.r.mil.uk/live/cgi-bin/CMGForum.pl?action=display&forum=IT_Security&id=20060427163356)if you have intranet.

I am not sure if this has already been covered but it does pose a question or two!!

Edited for spelling!!

[formertonkaplum]

Its another farce. No prizes for guessing that the big cheese who approved JPA will no doubt have a contract with these clowns on retirement!!

We are the premier Air Focre from around the world. Imagine what we could do if we had OFFICERS who knew what they were doing? They should be removed from all jobs apart from Flying.

They screw up and nothing happens. Will anyone be brought to account for JPA? No. Why...... Because senior Officers are above accountability. A burden to the budget is all they are.

Stop this facre now. Switch JPA OFF, revert to local management systems.....THAT WORK !!

[The Helpful Stacker]

So let me see if I've got the right end of the stick here.

The system we use to record such details as our home address, bank account numbers, next-of-kin details etc is insecure and could possibly be hacked into no problem at all by say, Mr Mustafa of 1 Iranian Revolutionary Rd, Tehran?:confused:

Remember folks, security is not a dirty word.:rolleyes:

[Almost_done]

It seems so.:mad:

[Bluntend]

It's you NI number thats of most value to identity theives. Nice to know that its being kept safe...
:mad:

[GengisKhant]

If the information supplied by Almost_done is true, then immediate action is required. It would appear that JPA is vulnerable to penetration by determined IT hackers...... therefore, the system is insecure...!

There is no other decision to take other than rectification of the security issue ASAP. In the meantime, all access to, and operation of, JPA should be suspended immediately.

[Avtur]

And so now the world knows! Cheers.

[BootFlap]

Almost Done,
Good skills at alerting us all. Unfortunately, I would assume that now all the hackers are also alerted! Not a criticism of your post at all, just an observation. What a rolling goat! :{

[Almost_done]

Almost Done,
Good skills at alerting us all. Unfortunately, I would assume that now all the hackers are also alerted! Not a criticism of your post at all, just an observation. What a rolling goat! :{

'They' would have known from the start unfortunately, due to the amount of database and other international hacking that goes on, 'they' probably knew more about the role out of JPA and other issues before we found out, actually it would be in our benifit to employ these ppl to create a secure and usable system in JPA's place.

However it is now out in the open so hopefully we can get it fixed.

[Itsrainingagain]

If hackers can get in to JPA they're the only ones that can!!!!:confused:

[The Helpful Stacker]

If hackers can get in to JPA they're the only ones that can!!!!:confused:

Lol.

Sad but it seems very true.

I managed to change my initial password and since then its been pretty much "JPA says no".

[dallas]

JPA is vulnerable to peneitration by determined IT hackers......

They'd have to be bloody determined if people with a password can't get in. Maybe we could recruit them to check our claims, pay and personal details?

Again, this all smacks of remote senior officers - the kind who come to the Gulf on visits by business class, stop in hotels and awkwardly ask "How's it going" with hands on hips, incorrectly dressed with chip bag hat and multiple badges adorning their CS95. Unfortunately the higher you get the further you also are from doing the job, which can be a blessing occasionally, up until somebody says "what do you want our computer program to do?". At this point they can hardly say "I don't know, I don't do the job" can they?

Nobody above sqn ldr should be allowed to explain how we do the job - and only selected sqn ldrs at that!

[endplay]

If a hacker manages to get on to my account he won't have to steal my identity to make money. I'll gladly pay him if he'll tell me how he did it. I haven't managed to get in yet and I've got a bl**dy password!

[Big Bear]

We are the premier Air Focre from around the world. Imagine what we could do if we had OFFICERS who knew what they were doing? They should be removed from all jobs apart from Flying.


Whooa steady on trigger!! Some of us do know what we are doing but the remoteness of our so-called senior officers is just as frustrating to us, and don't forget some of us were bloody good at your job before we were commisioned!

[Almost_done]

As the title, I stated a fact, an undeniable fact, if the mods can't cope with that then please PM me as it is in the public domain. We need this issue to be addressed !!!!!

I for one will not allow my personal security to be laid open to the general public, i am not scare mongering. I have a genuine issue with this detail of the security of MY personal information.

If this is NOT the forum to get these issues rasied what hope do WE have!!!!

Yes I am annoyed! So far as to say bring it on to the Powers in charge of our pityful lives.

[BOAC]

Almost - I had the thread TEMPORARILY removed following an apparently official request. The entire thread is still visible to me - it has NOT been destroyed.

The final decision on what happens will, as always, rest with the boss here. An outbreak of 'where has it gone' posts will NOT encourage a sympathetic view at the HQ here. Suffice it to say that I think I can see the problem you raise?

Got it? Leave it alone for a while please.

[Almost_done]

Almost - Got it? Leave it alone for a while please.

Are you speaking to me as an adult or a child? PM me if you wish to discuss it please. Also thank you for saying it was an apparent Official request.

[BOAC]

Are you speaking to me as an adult or a child - since you seem to wish to post on several threads at once about it, I am not quite sure.

I'm sorry, but we do not have time to get into PMs about every problem thread. Like it or not you will have to wait.

Edited in after your subsequent post:
I trust you also saw The final decision on what happens will, as always, rest with the boss here. An outbreak of 'where has it gone' posts will NOT encourage a sympathetic view at the HQ here. Suffice it to say that I think I can see the problem you raise?

[Almost_done]

- since you seem to wish to post on several threads at once about it, I am not quite sure.

I'm sorry, but we do not have time to get into PMs about every problem thread. Like it or not you will have to wait.

As you will subsequently see I removed my post on the main JPA thread in the hope it does not suffer the same fate as mine did.

[formertonkaplum]

Why doesn't the person who made the official request, take JPA off-line and sort the:-

a. Security risk it presents giving information to undesirables.
b. Security risk it presents giving information to criminals.
c. capabilities it is supposed to offer.

This is not harmless gripes, this is peoples lives being put at risk so that some Old Crusty Officer can take another pat on the back for his efforts in saving the RAF 10p. The RAF would save a damn site more if it got rid of the high proportion of senior Officers who routinely cock things like this up.

[threepointonefour]

Seems to me that PPRuNe is becoming PPOLNe ....

"Professional Pilots 'Official Line' Network"

[FormerFlake]

Well if 2 Gps BOCs system does not protect where our SF flights etc are, do you expect JPA do hide your home address?

[The Helpful Stacker]

Well if 2 Gps BOCs system does not protect where our SF flights etc are, do you expect JPA do hide your home address?

The release of home addresses is a little more serious than where a sneaky beaky chinny is flying at the mo.

It wasn't that long ago that married quarters came with an IED inspection mirror for those 'not quite sure' moments. The current crop of potential terrorists have no doubt paid attention to what our new best mates in the IRA did previously.

[Autorev]

BOAC,
I'm not stirring, just interested....
I had the thread TEMPORARILY removed following an apparently official request
So you had the thread removed - you didn't simply report it to those that run this site? Am I to assume that you are the new moderator of this forum?
Also, what is an apparently official request? Surely it either comes through official channels or not.:ugh:

[airborne_artist]

Also, what is an apparently official request? Surely it either comes through official channels or not.

There's a pre-agreed code word used - it's "N*gger".

[The Helpful Stacker]

There's a pre-agreed code word used - it's "N*gger".

"Broadsword calling Danny Boy..."

[formertonkaplum]

"Broadsword calling Danny Boy..."


'Danny Boy here Broadsword.......Over'

[Roguedent]

'....Broadsword requesting JPA password.....over':ok:

[Rev I. Tin]

'...roger, wait out...'

[The Helpful Stacker]

'....Broadsword requesting JPA password.....over':ok:

"Say again last Broadsword, message garbled..."

[maniac55]

'Standby Broadsword, the pigs are lining up for departure..':D

[moosemaster]

As far as I can see this is a legitimate concern, shared by most people who've ever had any dealings with previous MoD IT projects.

Let's face it, if Barclays can cock it up with the amount of money they pour into things, what makes anyone think the MoD won't given our shoe-string budget.

JPA has enough trouble getting my pay correct without someone else deliberately trying to get it wrong!!:bored:

[The Helpful Stacker]

Even leaving personnel security issues aside this security oversight could damage the RAF in other ways.

If someone were to mess about with JPA in such a way as to stop wage payments one month to a large amount of personnel you have the potential for at least a massive hit on morale and at worst a chance of mutiny/work to rule.

[Bluntend]

And yet at the same time as the fundamental security of JPA is being ignored by the grown ups, were having new ID card holders thrust on us. These ones now need to be colour coded - to improve security. Obvious really...
:{

[Fox-1]

Personally, the security of my personal details are far more important than being paid on time. I expected there to be teething troubles with the new IT system, but I also expected security to be the prime consideration for a Military IT system.

However, as no IT system is fully secure, why was this not a consideration before the issue was decided?

[GreenWings]

And yet at the same time as the fundamental security of JPA is being ignored by the grown ups, were having new ID card holders thrust on us. These ones now need to be colour coded - to improve security. Obvious really...
:{
I got mine here this morning at your secret Cambridgeshire stn's little sister stn in Beds. All the stn staff are toeing the policy line, but no one's saying where this marvellous initiative came from. Is it going to be another RAF-wide waste of money and effort or did someone discover a few boxes leftover at the ID Badge Holder IPT at Wyton?

The Fishheads here are grumbling too, because they have to wear a light blue one :{ :{

[formertonkaplum]

What is this talk of ID card holders? Are they being issued RAF wide? Can anyone elaborate?

Can we think of no better place to spend money? Like a computer system that can drive JPA and allow more than 80 people to log on at once?

What next...
Royal Air Force rucksack..................... no, done that.
Royal Air Force badge for cs95............. no, done that.
Tactical Badge for CS95...................... no, done that.

[ScapegoatisaSolution]

Not wanting to get this thread chopped but what is the difference with a 'http' site and a 'https' site? Why would the civvy HRMS system be on a 'https' site and JPA on a 'http' site?
Apparently the money that should have been paid to me by JPA but didn't get to my account is in a 'computer black hole.' Well that makes it alright then...
A Scapegoat is Better Than a Solution...

[WhiteOvies]

Greenwings:
If the fishheads over at the Beds are moaning you should hear the crabs at the Cambs place. All Service personnel to wear dark blue badge holders!:} At least they're not purple!

[Talking Radalt]

What next...
Royal Air Force rucksack..................... no, done that.
Royal Air Force badge for cs95............. no, done that.
Tactical Badge for CS95...................... no, done that.

"Limited Edition" keyfobs on e-Bay? :) ......

[scroggs]

BOAC,
I'm not stirring, just interested....
So you had the thread removed - you didn't simply report it to those that run this site? Am I to assume that you are the new moderator of this forum?
Also, what is an apparently official request? Surely it either comes through official channels or not.:ugh:

Yes, BOAC is a Moderator of this and every forum here at Pprune, as am I and a number of others, including (of course) Danny and Pprune Towers. Not even 'Military Aircrew' can be left completely to its own devices!

Scroggs

[BOAC]

Just to add: as you can see the thread is now 'back' - all 'joined up' for ease of viewing. Please feel free to use PPRune to air your concerns - the press DO read these forums.

However -

I understand the motive behind the thread is to ensure that the details of serving personnel remain secure. With that in mind, when you post here:-

1) This forum is fully open to everyone. Do not post information which you know to be 'sensitive'. That will result in moderation again and probably denial of access for you.

2) Do not degrade the security of your colleagues' information by giving those with a less noble motive any hints.

As Scroggs has pointed out, an eye is kept on the forum and advice sought when necessary.

Do not waste the opportunity you have here.

Edit:

A note (for the paranoid:) ) regarding the 'secure padlock' referred to in an earlier post - #53. A while back I read on a computer security site that these 'padlocks' can be 'forged'. I do not know if other OS's will do this, but with WinXp if you double click on the padlock it will tell you to whom the certificate is issued, as a double check

[BleepBleep]

Mike,

Forgive my naivety, but JPA can only be accessed by someone on the DII or RLI; ie closed netwoks so there is a measure of security already - added to the fact that even authorised users can not gain access so we have total security!!

On a different note, the system is so effective Innsworth can post someone and both the individual and post can disappear in a matter of seconds. Really makes you feel safe doesn't it!!!

By the way, what's this about pass holders? Sorry to seem dense but I've only just found this site and haven't worked my way through all of the articles posted.

[Almost_done]

Mike,
Forgive my naivety, but JPA can only be accessed by someone on the DII or RLI; ie closed netwoks so there is a measure of security already - added to the fact that even authorised users can not gain access so we have total security!!

Ahhh the DII/RLI closed networks (or woks if you prefer), now do you or does a colleague at work have an IGS account? Well the IGS account is a secure(ish) way of using the Internet via the RLI Intranet. See where I am going here.

Such that the packets that you send out and recieve are passed through a series of Firewalls, but our system does not use SSL, however; there are far more intelligent persons outside of the RAF playing in hacking clubs etc... just for the thrill of getting into the Government/Military domains, for nothing than mere kicks. They brag about their achivements to each other and other Hackers via secure e-mail systems (more secure than we use in some cases) and share the information. At present the most secure way of operating a web based environment is using SSL or S-HTTP.

Now do we as a military work in a web based environment?

Now a geek explanation;
Secure Sockets Layer, a protocol developed by Netscape for transmitting private documents via the Internet. SSL uses a cryptographic system that uses two keys to encrypt data − a public key known to everyone and a private or secret key known only to the recipient of the message. Both Netscape Navigator and Internet Explorer support SSL, and many Web sites use the protocol to obtain confidential user information, such as credit card numbers.By convention, URLs that require an SSL connection start with https: instead of http:.
Another protocol for transmitting data securely over the World Wide Web is Secure HTTP (S-HTTP). Whereas SSL creates a secure connection between a client and a server, over which any amount of data can be sent securely, S-HTTP is designed to transmit individual messages securely. SSL and S-HTTP, therefore, can be seen as complementary rather than competing technologies. Both protocols have been approved by the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) as a standard.

Where as HTTP code is written and encoded and decoded in plain text as it were (look at is as transmitting in clear if you will), this is what the backbone of all our systems operate on. Yes this still requires someone to get into the RLI but as 591 have proved it is not hard to do. They are constantly attacking our own systems to prove our own defences (and sterling job they are doing too).

Again however; the Pentagon, NASA and our dear old UK Gov have proved to be vulnerable to attack and have hackers knocking at their doors all the time normally to show up and embariss said Company/Gov etc..., eventually one will get in and if he/she wishes can wreak havoc in our systems and we will be none the wiser, now if they get in and are intent on doing harm to us or our systems, ??????????????

[Farfrompuken]

JPA. Well, well, well. :ooh:

The chinless wonders that are 'running' our cr@ppy little militia are harping on about ETHOS, FTDS, Expeditionary Air Force:rolleyes: and all sorts of other pointless tosh-like buzzwords, whilst the real 'Ethos' is: Civilianisation, HSAW, Redundancies, LEAN, Base closures, fleet cuts, joke procurement, adoption of inappropriate business practices in the MoD, cost slashing in vital areas whilst wasting 00000s of £s on projects like Icarus that's useless and JPA that fails to pay you on time and is not secure. Brilliant!! :yuk:

I do hope that at the cocktail party, whenever that may be, the 'work strand' are all presented with their P45s for such an appalling failiure. Hold on, how are they going to get those? Nooooooo.......JPA?!*@:mad:

The bottom line is no-one will be accountable. It won't get sorted and we'll all suffer as a resullt. The X-Factor needs a serious boost to keep people away from professionally run organisations.

We're on Bingo Goodwill.:{

[markerboy]

Lets face facts. If the government can get away witrh ruining the NHS, slashing the armed forces, sh@@ing who they, why should some high ranking official be held accountable for a little problem like JPA. When will our so called "leadership" wise up and see what's happening on the shop floor.

I for one am growing a little tired off being sent around rhe world, to protect people who bomb me, then coming home to find i haven't even been paid for the pleasure.

End rant.,... :mad:

[indie cent]

Farfrompuken, you're spot on.:bored:

But don't forget, we got a whole 3% pay rise.:confused:

Why-oh-why did I take the FRI.:( :*

Does anybody at the top know or care about any of this - people unpaid; security questions; capped expenses; admin burden - no sorry - nightmare... and a cocktail party indeed..!!! For f:mad: sake.

[Farfrompuken]

Talking FRI....

Gather that we're not a million miles away from the next round. The money's still in the pot. Approval is still current from the last batch. Not exactly sure what point you receive it but believe it's going to leave a few who dipped out last time a tad frustrated.

I also understand the powers that be are aware that the FRI will need to be fairly hefty to prevent the exodus that is occurring as people are leaving early for seniority in the airlines. The last FRI won't do the job.

Gather the latest take-up of PA was laughably low. Again, you've got to pay someone an amount that's significantly greater than the lump sum you get when you commute at 38 and to compensate for your pay relative to the professionals in civil aviation.

No doubt all of this will receive an input from JPA, so we can expect Plt Offs to recive the FRI whils those near an option point will end up paying a 1000% SFA charge increase;)

Indie Cent, you can always pay back the FRI and pocket the interest you've earnt over the last couple of years, unless you've spent the lot already.........

[trilander]

it sounds like the airships f88ked up again, in my day you send me on det you pay up front in cash, I loved rate ones!!!

[The Masked Geek]

The problem with the security isn't so much as people can crack the system but rather that a lack of SSL means that they don't need to.

Every time you access your JPA account, the information (bank details, NI number, Passport number, etc.) are sent across the RLI in plain-text so you are effectively handing your details to anyone with a care to look. Mind you, your username and password and those of the professional users are also sent in plain-text......:suspect:

As stated earlier in this thread, civvy HRMS uses SSL so why don't they afford the same level of protection to our details.

[MostlyHarmless]

Enabling SSL is a 5 minute job on a modern system, creating the certificate is probably the more time consuming part! However, it *does* add a processor overhead to the server and, given how the thing seems to be working at well over it's expected capacity, I'd imagine it's been turned off to try and give the system a little more headroom. Anyone see padlocks on day 1?

The alternative explanation that it wasn't in the original spec just leaves me bewildered...

[indie cent]

Ffpuken,

It's really not a question of repaying money, as well you know. (Now I've told you!)

It is all to do with the 20/20 hindsight that one now has to see an alternative path before making the decision to stay to the IPP.

For those who missed the FRI and are staying in, and are putting up with all the crap you mentioned AND the JPA fiasco, it must feel like rolling in salt following a good birching!!!!!:eek:

Actually maybe a good cocktail party is just the ticket! An Air Force wide bash with free booze for all - just to apologise, profusely.:ok:

...And then they can sort this debacle. Pronto.

[The Rogue]

Is there anyone here with the legal knowledge who could explain the legalities of A N Other displaying our personal details inc NI numbers/bank details on a site deemed insecure by some? And how insecure would it have to be to be deemed unsafe? given that it is a remote network albeit with only password protection

[Almost_done]

Is there anyone here with the legal knowledge who could explain the legalities of A N Other displaying our personal details inc NI numbers/bank details on a site deemed insecure by some? And how insecure would it have to be to be deemed unsafe? given that it is a remote network albeit with only password protection
I believe this covers it soundly;
Excerpts from the Data Protection Act 1998 Ch 29.

Principal Seven

Appropriate technical and organisational measures shall be taken against unauthorised or unlawful processing of personal data and against accidental loss or destruction of, or damage to, personal data.

Interpretation of Principal Seven

Having regard to the state of technological development and the cost of implementing any measures, the measures must ensure a level of security appropriate to-

(a) the harm that might result from such unauthorised or unlawful processing or accidental loss, destruction or damage as are mentioned in the seventh principle, and
(b) the nature of the data to be protected.

[D-IFF_ident]

How much would it take to keep you in past 38?

For me, considering the current Dets, JPA, standard of living, lack of support etc, it would have to be around £100 000.00, tax free. Then I'd another 5 years.

I took the FRI last time round. £30 000.00 taxed at 40% = £18 000.00. Then tax and NI for the rest of the year cost around another £1000.00. Then I lost tax credits for another £1000.00.

I got about £16 000.00 in the end. Wouldn't take it if it was offered again.

[Farfrompuken]

D-IFF Ident:

You're spot on. 100k is about the right amount post-tax to keep people on post 38 and the measly FRI1 would only be good to temporarily keep in an investment account till you PVR/Take option point. Has to be a substantial amount to actually spend it:)

[Almost_done]

I hope you have all recieved your Customer Care Charter from AFPAA, gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling. Best one is to answer all telephone calls within 50 Sec, well I suppose if you look at a 24hr timeframe I am sure that they manage that, however if we take a 8 to 5 day well stats may tell a different story.

[Rather be Gardening]

Yes, received it today. Can't we get them under the Trades Description Act? It would have been funny if it wasn't causing so much disruption and annoyance.

Called into PSF yesterday and asked one of the clerks how it was going. He looked absolutely weary and maxed-out, having just fielded yet another abusive phone call from a disgruntled JPA victim. The B-word has a lot to answer for in setting this fiasco in motion. What's he doing now, by the way?:*

[SidHolding]

I never got a paper copy of my pay chit, so I bet I don't get a Customer Care Charter either :bored:

[rudekid]

Is it me or does anyone else find it ridiculous they can send the customer charter to my home address and the new pay statement only to a work address?

Now that's progress...

[4fitter]

Rudekid

I must admit that having received my charter via Royal Mail today, the same thought crossed my mind.

[Roland Pulfrew]

Is it me or does anyone else find it ridiculous they can send the customer charter to my home address and the new pay statement only to a work address?
Now that's progress...

Can anyone explain why the new pay statements can "only be sent to your work address" despite the fact that they are all franked as first class. Weren't the old pay statements sent second class and that could be to any address of your choosing!! Progress, it's a wonderful thing!!

[Skeleton]

BOAC

Re your post about padlocks and double clicks...


You may have the boots in here but you know nothing about PC security.


nuff said.

[Almost_done]

BOAC
Re your post about padlocks and double clicks...
You may have the boots in here but you know nothing about PC security.
nuff said.
TY, security is a bad word in some areas.

[LFFC]

..... and "crevice" is positively disgusting!

[Almost_done]

..... and "crevice" is positively disgusting!
Ahh................but..............gusset?

[Farfrompuken]

Just been told by the bloke at JPAC that my April Fg Pay will now be paid with my May pay run.:ugh:

Happy Days:\

[LFFC]

Just been told by the bloke at JPAC that my April Fg Pay will now be paid with my May pay run.:ugh:
Happy Days:\

.... with interest I hope!

[BATS]

I left the service some time ago and I too received a JPA Customer Care Charter....... JPA keeps a close track of personnel then .....:rolleyes:

[airborne_artist]

When a customer of mine paid me late, citing a new payments computer system c*ck-up, I told them I was sending an invoice for late payment (written into my terms). They paid that one on time :ok:

I'd suggest that all those who have been underpaid put in a claim for loss of interest. County courts accept the rate of interest charges by credit cards as being "reasonable" when applying for interest on a debt. I'm sure it would be hard for HMG to turn down such claims in the light of the fuss made in Parliament should they be refused.