VFR Flight Plan (Q for ATC)

[rmcdonal]

A fair bit of my flying is done on a VFR Flight plan only moving toward IFR when the weather turns from sunny to not. The question I have is why do I even bother filing a VFR plan into the system when ATC can’t see it, and are unable to get to it if I have to change rules to IFR? All the information given is exactly the same except you tick ‘V’ instead of ‘I’. This has happened on multiple occasions where I have asked to upgrade and they have told me I don’t have a plan in the system and could I go ahead details. I’m in no way saying that its ATC’s problem, I’m sure you must find this frustrating and time consuming as well. Just looking to see if the time spent typing in a 6 sector day VFR plan could be spent a bit better (e.g. an extra 15-20min in Bed) or is it actually useful for you?
(Note: this does not include flight into controlled Airspace)
:confused:

[UnderneathTheRadar]

Just a theory from a non-ATC'er:

The "Advanced" ATS automatically drops your flightplan after a period of time. If you take off VFR & recieve no service then by the time you call in for IFR pick-up the system has long since decided you're not coming.

The only way around it I can see is to change your flight rules to IFR for the last stage - but even this may not guarantee that with no communication to ATC the system doesn't give up on you. Maybe making contact with flightwatch early on to check that you're in the system will keep you there? Alternatively, if you have a SARWATCH then they shouldn't delete you early either.

Just a theory (or 2),

UTR

[Area QNH is...]

rmcdonal,
Not all VFR plans are entered into TAAATS. They will only be entered if an ATC sector will require it. ie: If you plan from, say Orange to Dubbo, VFR OCTA, your plan will not be entered into TAAATS. The number of plans would overload the system...
However, the plan is sent to a "VFRX file" where it can be accessed by the Flight Data folks for about 3 days (I think).
The SARWATCH details are forwarded to CENSAR.
UTR's suggestion about making the leg IFR can be done. This will ensure that the plan is posted to the relevent sector, however the flight plan will time out after a certain period, if not activated.
I have had several occassions where VFR aircraft have popped up requesting to upgrade to IFR, and I've never had a problem accessing a plan. It does take some time for the TFDC to activate the plan and perhaps some ATC'ers think it's less time consuming to get your details and enter it themselves.
Just a slight glitch which has been caused by VFR flights/pilots being removed from the whole ATC system
Hope this answers some questions
Any other ATC'ers please correct me if I'm wrong

[welcome_stranger]

There is a bank run from YSBK to YBRW nearly every day that plans IFR 6 legs out and 6 legs back. Almost every day after the first leg, once over the ranges, there is the request that the rest of the outbounds be down graded to VFR. Easy to do in the new system.
Yes most of the VFR plans get sent to VFRX and it takes about 15 sec to recall and send the FPL into the system.
A plan will be purged from the system 4 hours after preactivation, that is ETD plus 3 hrs and 15 min, if no one interacts with the preactive plan otherwise the plan will go finished at ATA plus 15.
If you have any concerns about it best bet is to plan IFR then on first contact drop down to VFR and after that call Flightwatch and amend any further legs as necessary and put your sartime in.
All that will cost you is (e.g. an extra 15-20min in Bed) but at least you will have someone else concerned with your safety and wellbeing and you could always go to bed 30mins earlier.
P.S. We are now just FDCs - we ain't TAAATS no more:D

[Jawz]

plan IFR then on first contact drop down to VFR and after that call Flightwatch and amend any further legs as necessary and put your sartime in.
All that will cost you is
Quote:
(e.g. an extra 15-20min in Bed)


Is there not a difference in price that airservices charge for ifr/vfr flights?

I heard if you plan ifr and down grade to vfr or plan vfr and up grade to ifr you still pay the ifr price for the whole sector?

anyone?

[tobzalp]

If the plan is not activated, there is no charge.

My advice to the topic starter is to always say 'And I filed a plan at (insert time here)' when you call ATC. The ATC (the ones who are not stupid) will open a very easy to access part of the machine and type in your callsign. if the plan does not show up, they just have to make a quick call to a person who will make the plan appear. i was to believe that every VFR plan is accessible at the console if the trajectory goes through the airspace volume IFR or VFR. The only difference is the actual way the info is displayed to the ATC being an actual 'strip' for IFR. I very very rarely cannot find a VFR plan if a guy calls up and says they have filed. Keep filing them but I ask if you do file VFR to not put 'RMK/REQUEST FLIGHT FOLLOWING' in the field 18 bit as we can't see the plan until we go looking and will never see it:ugh: .

[rmcdonal]

I now normaly plan IFR for some of the legs and call centre to cancel IFR if the WX is good (Mainly just to let the controller know whats going on). I would Plan IFR and cancel on all the legs but I hate giving centre work they don't need. Wouldn't it be easier to File VFR and upgrade then IFR and down grade? It's one less radio call.
And don't worry tobzalp have never asked for flight following, and would file for IFR before it got that bad. :ok:
Thanks all for the info

[SM4 Pirate]

rmcdonal

Keep doing what you are doing. The simplest way to get details in the system is for the controller to get your VFR plan from the 'VFRX bin'; but to do this they must know it exists. Terminal controllers are particularly ignorant of the VFRX bin and how it works (not all, ie me).

The best way of getting a filed VFR plan activated is to call with "VFR Plan in the system"; if you get "a nothing found" response say "Check with your FDCs it's there". Remember allow and extra two minutes if you've got the time for this process to run it's course. For ease of interaction with TAAATS some ATCs will ask for details in case the VFR plan actually isn't there. This maybe to get a RADTAG going pending plan retrieval

To get a TAAATS plan in from our point of view it's the full plan details that you need to enter in a plan; bit different for a RADTAG. Some 11 fields need interaction, which is time consuming and you can't multi-task FDR entry you must do it all in one go or start again.

All TAAATS controllers have access to the FDR's of all IFR flights and VFR entering 'Class C' in the relevant FIR; ie BN and ML. We open the FDR, type in the callsign and if it's in TAAATS we see the details, that simple. (Remember to spell out the callsign if it's abbreviated, if PIPELINE is shortened to PIPL say so).

As mentioned some VFR plans are not ever entered into TAAATS due to the filtering to keep the system running and mostly to keep unused data not getting in and taking up precious memory. VFR plans however are retrievable from VFRX, but only from our FDC, ie cannot be done by the ATC at the console.

[Feather #3]

As an infrequent IFR/VFR trans user, ATCO's are to be congratulated on the service they give.

I'm not too sure if it was by direction or just getting familiar, but when TAAAAATS came in [how many A's are there??:uhoh: ], things were a little tough for we VFR "popups". However, things are now what was envisaged as far as VFR service is concerned. Congratulations and thanks.:ok:

G'day ;)