View Full Version : SPA flown as multi crew
There are a couple of single pilot aircraft operators in the UK that fly them as multi pilot aircraft. In this envoironment are the pilots allowed to log multi crew time? If so can anyone link me to the relevent legislation please.
topper3
24th Apr 2006, 23:47
I don't know where the legislation comes from but I think that at the request of the customer, single pilot ops may be required to operate as multi crew due to insurance requirements. In these cases a type rating would be required for the 2nd pilot, depending on the a/c in use. If its a King air, for example, I believe that some of the B200's can fly single crew, but a 2nd type rated pilot may be required by the customer. I've flown on a B200 a few times as an assistant but obviously cannot log it due to lack of type rating. Bugger!:{
flyboyike
25th Apr 2006, 00:20
In the US the second pilot cannot log time if the aircraft is an SPA unless said second pilot is an FI. There are instances when insurance might require a second pilot, but he/she wouldn't normally be required to have a TR, only the appropriate category and class rating. For instance, a copilot on a B350 would only need an AMEL, not a B350 type.
The B200 doesn't require a type rating in the US.
Fellow Aviator
25th Apr 2006, 01:51
I think that the legislation comes from the Operations Manual. If its stated in a operations manual approved by the authority that multi crew composition is required, then one can legally log MCC time.
YYZ_Instructor
25th Apr 2006, 02:56
Fellow Aviator is correct.
It doesn't matter what type of aircraft it is, if it specifies in the OPS manual that it can be/or has to be operated as 2 crew then it will count as multi crew time. When the time comes for the CAA to issue your ATPL you must have a letter from the Operations manager that your time that was logged as MC was relevant under the companies OPS manual....dated and signed.
Hope that helps :ok:
YYZ_Instructor
Jimmy The Big Greek
25th Apr 2006, 06:54
The second in command does not need a typerating if the aircraft is below 12500lb. A Second in command checkout will do.
This is only for US registered aircrafts.
WX Man
25th Apr 2006, 07:43
It doesn't matter what type of aircraft it is, if it specifies in the OPS manual that it can be/or has to be operated as 2 crew then it will count as multi crew time.YYZ_Instructor
YYZ... can you point me towards where it says this in the legislation?
My company aren't required to have an Ops manual but we still operate two crew. I have been advised to contact our surveyor for further advice but I don't want to approach him unprepared.
READY MESSAGE
25th Apr 2006, 07:58
YYZ instructor is right. Your Ops Manual must be written up with multi pilot SOPs approved by the CAA. However, when it comes to having you ATPL issued, these hours will count towards the 500 figure but you first must complete an ATPL Skill Test. Basically this means even with your 500 multi pilot time you cannot get an ATPL without doing a type rating on a multi pilot certified aircraft. Purely as an example, if you do 500 hrs on a Be200 multi pilot approved, no ATPL until you have done a 737 type rating.
Hope that helps
Fellow Aviator
25th Apr 2006, 10:32
WX Man:
JAR-OPS 1 1.175 (L) says:
The operator must ensure that every flight is conducted in accordance with the provisions of the Operations Manual.
If your company doesn't have a OM, then all the aircraft are operated according to manufacturer's AFM.
moggiee
26th Apr 2006, 13:46
Example:
We had an MCC enquiry from someone who had 750+ hours on Cessna Caravans working for DHL in South Africa. DHL operate the Caravan as an MPA (approved by the SA authorities) and thus the UK CAA said that there was no requirement to undertake an MCC because those hours counted as multipilot hours.
smith
26th Apr 2006, 19:43
Depends on you AOC. If your AOC states SP, then dual pilots can not log hours.
WX Man
26th Apr 2006, 21:19
Example:
We had an MCC enquiry from someone who had 750+ hours on Cessna Caravans working for DHL in South Africa. DHL operate the Caravan as an MPA (approved by the SA authorities) and thus the UK CAA said that there was no requirement to undertake an MCC because those hours counted as multipilot hours.
That's exactly what I was looking for. Thank you!
Quick addendum: what's people's view (i.e. opinions) on operating a G reg aircraft to an Ops Manual that hasn't been approved by the UK CAA?