ATPL Now or later???

[expedite08]

Hi all,

Ive found myself in a little dilema of sorts with regard to my training plans. The situation is this...

I am due to be leaving the RAF next year and I am looking to complete my ATPL studies, however, I also have an application in for the Police Force, primarily as a back up plan in case the ATPL'S dont work out.

The dilema comes with the fact that if I were to be accepted in to the Police It would take me a few more years to complete my training slow time, but there are benefits to this. These would be that I would be on a good salary and not have to take out a large loan, and I would not have to sell my car! Plus as I have already said, it would prove to be a very good back up plan if the studies were to go pear shaped, loss of mediacl etc.
The other end of the spectrum would be to start my first module of ground school now and complete it by the end of the year, (all of the ground studies would be paid for from my enhanced learning credits entitlements and I would get some time off from my resettlement). Then get a job to just tie me over and complete the second module and the flying training next year supplemented by a loan.

Now comes the hard part! It has been my life long ambition to fly professionally and Im fully aware of the hard work involved and I am determined that one day I will make it. BUT do I go all out now and sacrifice a lot of things, or do I take my time and possibly be better off in the long run financially etc??? In other words, join the Police and take a few more years, or go for it now??

I would appreciate any comments thoughts and opinions especially from the more experienced guys on here Scroggs, Pilot Pete etc
As you can imagine this is a life changing decison for me so one which I must consider very carefully.

Many thanks

Expedite :O

[scroggs]

How old are you? What non-flying commitments do you have (family etc)? What flying experience do you have?

Scroggs

[Sky Wave]

1) How old are you?
2) You don't say what you do in the RAF. Are you a pilot already?
3) What flying experience do you have?


Sorry, not an expert like scroggs or PP but here are my thoughts.

If you join the police you will have to concentrate on your basic training and if you are not giving it 100% you may not make it through your probationary period. Secondly, are the police going to be happy to let you have 2 lots of 3 weeks off for ground school brush-up and then 3 months off to complete your flying (3 months is assuming you have a PPL or RAF equivalent, if not you need much more training.) All the while that this is going on you will be getting older and if you're the wrong side of 30 that could be a problem. Remember that once your training is complete it can take a couple of years to land that first job so you have to ask the question whether the police will accept you back after 3 months when they must realise you'll be leaving any minute? I know they have allowed experienced police officers to do this but a newbie, I doubt it.

To my mind (and I was a modular guy) if you have no flying experience go fully integrated to Oxford or Jerez because from what I have seen that is your quickest way into this industry. If you do well with these schools they will recommend you to BA and assuming you are successful you will be on more than twice as much as the police were paying so over a 3 year period you will be better off. It is of course a gamble, but Oxford do seem to work very hard to get their best students into airlines so it all comes down to the question of are you cut out for this game.

If you do have flying experience then I would look carefully at where I did my CPL/IR and speak to schools with a history of getting their students into airlines. I would still be tempted to go full time with Oxford if you could possibly afford it (that wasn't an option for me) because the quicker you are trained the quicker you can get a job flying and if it's flying that you want why waste time going down the police force route.

It all comes down to what you can afford, I was mortgaged to the hilt had no interest in selling my house and could not get another loan so I had to go modular (and 3 years after starting my ATPL studies I still don't have a flying job).

If the worst happens and you lose your medical can you not continue whatever trade you had in the RAF?

Just my thoughts, ready to be shot down by the anti-integrated brigade.

SW

[expedite08]

Scroggs:
I am 23, 24 in October. I dont have any financial commitments such as a mortgage etc, just a loan on my car. Hence why I would have to sell it in order to use the money for the flying.

As far as flying experience goes I have a PPL with 70 Hours, looking in going to the states to build some hours over there.

Im an Assistant fighter controller in the Air Force.

SkyWave:

Many thanks for your thoughts, You are most probably right about the Police and the training involved. I knew that the training would be tough. But as you say, if its flying that I really want, which it is, then all out it should be. Just get a job to keep my head above the water. Im not one of these desprate to be in the RHS of a 73 or 320. I just want to achieve my ambition of flying professionally. Id be more than happy city hopping in a dash or ATR.

I would most certainly go modular as i would'nt be able to afford the integrated route.

Quite spooky as Im from Bournemouth too! Looking to do my groundschool at GTS, been over there, a very professional and helpful looking outfit.

Hope this helps

Expedite:ok:

[maxdrypower]

Expedite , if that really is your name ????
I am an ex rigger from the raf who is now a cop . I made all the wrong decsions in life as far as becoming a pilot goes but thats another story.
It is true that there is a training period of at least 15 weeks initial where you will be required to sit exams etc and you will have to study a bit. After which you will have further 16 months probationary period with some courses of two weeks in length . It wouldnt be too easy to study for both atpls and police exams at the same time in fact I would say well nye impossible , but this is only for fifteen weeks after that its on the job training and once you finish work you can go home and forget about it there is no really study commitment outside the first few weeks . But dont believe all you hear , you probably learnt quite early on that what you were told in the careers office for the raf was a lot different than reality , same in the police . Police training is not tough , it is not intellectually challenging , the only thing you will have to put up with is the inane ****e that goes with the job , if you think the air force is badly run wait till you become a cop . i am an excellent cop very good at my job as are many of my colleagues but we work for one of the omst politically correct and incompetently managed organisations in the uk , dont be under any illusion that you are joining a proffessional organisation , the only thing you can do is be as good a cop as you wanna be , If you are studying with a view to leaving then perhaps your heart wouldnt be in it and you wouldnt be prepared to pout up with the crax you will encounter over and over again .
Skywave is right the police do allow study periods and career breaks and such like even unpaid leave , which incidentally I am taking to do my atpls . However none of these options are open to probationers which as you will know is two years , so in short you will have to do two years minimum beofre oyu can take any more time off than your annual leave entitlement which I think on joining is 21 days but I may be wrong that will leave you well short for brush ups .
We have had one chap who did a frozen atpl and finished just after 9/11 and could not get employement , he joined the cops to pay off his loans and just this week started with flybe .
I would say matey if you have the means do the integrated course if not . Get another job and go modular but the police life would not be condusive to your career plans . I am doing it now with 11 years police service but my aim is only to be a flying instructor , I have no aspirtations within the police and can do this but as a probationer you would not be able to study to the degree you would want . I truned down a commision as a nav to join the cops , cant say whether it was right or wrong but it worked for me at the time
Hope I havent rambled on too much and you gleam summat from this inane drivel

[afghanhound]

Why dont you extend your RAF service for an extra 6-9 months-in the current climate they might be flexible-do your ATPL ground school distance learning on your enhanced learning credits ( and the RAF guys can probably give you a hand with the homework). From someone who made the wrong decision 20 years ago -if you want to fly commerciallythe sooner you do it the better! The longer you leave it, girlfriends, kids and houses come along that make it more difficult.There is little point in joining the police unless it is your lifetime ambition (it clearly isnt). So, in summary speak with your boss and/or posting officer, see if you can extend for a bit to allow you to complete the exams and then leave. You could volunteer for a 4-6 month op tour aswell where you could do your study and save a lot of money as you wont be spending any! It would also put you in a favourable light when you ask for an extension. If it all goes pearshape and the ATPL doesnt work out, either join the police then or re-enlist into the RAF or RMP police. You are young enough to take on a bit of risk and have the safety net of being able to come back into the Forces if it doesnt work out. PS What rank are you?

[helicopter-redeye]

1. Good choice with GTS, definately the experts & will you thru' the GS.

2. I don't see why the GS/ exams and then CPL flying should conflict with full time working? 2 week GTS course (taken from your A/L - if you pick the right spot it may only be 9 days (8 on phase 2) due to a BH in the period), then take the two days exam time a month oir so later.

3. I recall the police don't work M-F 9-5 but have shifts and rest days that rotate around the week. Plan your time ahead and you may be doing the exam days at Silsoe or wherever on rest days (hence no A/L used). May apply to parts of the course as well?

4. The CPL flying part could be a week later on (Sat to Sun next).

5. At least you have some money and an alternative while you collect the exams/ CPL/ ME/ etc.

h-r;)

[scroggs]

I take it you have looked at getting a commission and flying within the RAF? That would obviously be the cheapest option!

If you leave and don't join the police, how would you fund life and training? Selling a car which itself is funded by a loan doesn't sound to me like it will get you very far - and I don't remember many FOA(FC)s owning £60k cars! Loans for flying training aren't easy to come by and must normally be secured against property or other assets, unless you manage to get on the CTC scheme. Getting the ATPL ground exams done now as part of your resettlement is sensible.

The Police seems like a reasonable route to go, bearing in mind it's a means to an end. It will, as you say, take you a good while to get all your ATPL stuff done, but unless you have an alternative source of cash, I can't see how you would get it done quicker with another employer.

Scroggs

[expedite08]

Scroggs:

I see where you are comming from, your thoughts are pretty much the same as mine.
The loan on my car was of course no where near the 60k mark but I would not have to spend 60k on my training. I have no intention of going integrated, modular is the only way for me.
As I have said I would not have to pay anything for my groundschool as that can be done on resettlement and with ELC's. I would be able to sell the car and complete the rest of my training on a 15k loan. I have done my sums and it works out. Im looking to get an instructors rating too, as this is something I want to do, not just to build hours, but to do it as it is something I would love to do. Something that a lot of integrated guys miss out on. As I said earlier im not desprate to fly shiney jets, Id be more than happy on a regional turboprop. Of course if in a few years something came up then I would of course go for it. Its only natural, plus its career progression.

The way Im looking at doing it is just to get a job on leaving the air force to cover my loan payments and life expenses as you say.

What do you think?

Many thanks

Expedite:ok:

[scroggs]

I don't see a particular problem with it, so long as the finances work. As you'll discover here and in the Flying Instructors' forum, pay isn't great as an FI unless you can get into one of the big schools, and even then it's not wonderful, but it can be a very satisfying way to make your living. You may have to go through some pain to get there, but if it's what you want then go for it!

Scroggs

[expedite08]

Scroggs:

Many thanks for your replies, just one more thing if you were me in the same set of circumstances, would you go for it, that goes for anyone else who has or is reading this thread???

Ive thought it all through and it seems the most viable option and most of all it wont cost me anything like 60k!! Just shows how it can be done with a little thought and planning! Anyway enough of that or ill have the pro integrated's on my tail!:eek:

Many thanks

Expedite:ok:

[no sponsor]

If you work like a bugger in your spare time, you could get the ATPLs done within 6 months distance learning. When you leave the RAF, it would only take 4 weeks for hour building to get your 100hrs p1, 6-8 weeks for the IR, 3-4 weeks for the CPL & 4 weeks for the FI rating.

[expedite08]

Many thanks no sponsor.

So has anyone else been in the same sort of situation as I have, had to make the decision etc?? Would be interesting to hear of any other peoples stories of thier trianing experiences and how they undertook it all.

Expedite:ok: