View Full Version : Flying with friends
17th Apr 2006, 06:44
Ok, so I am only new to this (54hrs.) I went flying with a friend, he has a fresh P.P.L. so you presume all or at least most of his procedures are what has been taught. We were taught at different schools, his has a more flying club feel (though highly respected and often referred to on this website as one of the better) where mine is more freight/charter style. I could not help notice many things were different. I always do a walk around every flight not just the first in the morning. There was no takeoff safety brief, he used a different approach set up for different fields, sometimes using flaps, carby heat, fuelpump, landing lights etc.
So do (as a passenger) you comment/get out or shut up and just carefully observe?
As stated, I know I know nothing, but what is expected out in the real world? I am not for a minute pretending I have superior standards or skills - I am as I was taught (from the same sheet I thought) so is there a difference and perhaps more importantly does it realy matter - we got home safe and had a lovely (but slightly nervous) time.
Thanks for all the imput.
17th Apr 2006, 07:50
If your mate walked straight up to the aircraft, got in and started it, without bothering to do a walk around ,then he's asking for trouble. Did he dip the fuel? If not, then also asking for trouble.
Your comment about it being a slightly nervous flight has answered the question for you. Speak up. It's to late once you're in the air
Going flying with your fingers crossed isn't the way to do it,whether that be as PIC or as PAX.
17th Apr 2006, 07:57
Several things to consider here.
First the walk round, do you mean a full pre flight inspection or just a check of the fuel in the tanks, oil level, and a quick look round. There is no need for a full preflight before each flight, but I would do a quick look round including the fuel and oil.
Perhaps in the case of the flap use he/she was taught to use differing flap settings for different situations/conditions.
As to the other differences you noticed, perhaps you have better airmanship skills than your friend and he/she doesn't bother/care.
Now the speak up/shut up issue. If you ever feel uncomfortable about any situation (especially Wx) during a flight don't be afraid to speak up, forcibly if needed. But do choose how you do so as each situation calls for a different approach.
In the situations you describe perhaps ask a question like "Why don't you alway use carby heat/fuel pump?" If you use the right approach you shouldn't create any tension or offence which is important if you are still airborne. You may jog your friends memory and even learn something yourself.
17th Apr 2006, 08:28
In addition to what has already been posted...
Different flying schools will have different techniques for flying the same aircraft. All you have to do is a search on "Carby Heat" on this forum to see the different theories on when/what conditions, etc. Or... Go to a place like Moorabbin and see how many different ways there are to fly a circuit.
Regarding the Take off safety brief: Some flying schools suggest you do your Take off safety brief silently so not to alarm your passengers.
Speak up if you're UNCOMFORTABLE with what they're doing. Sure, do it in a way that wont stop you from being invited along in future, but DO ask.
17th Apr 2006, 13:02
Thanks for all your imput.
Please dont get the wrong idea I felt safe but was mentally checking as I gess we all do. I did quipp weather the final approach would be with flaps? Flaps were used and the landing was rather good!
I would fly with him tomorrow!
The point is more perhaps, I was supprised at how differently you can conduct the same flight, you hear of good schools and bad schools but I was wondering if this was a case of just different? EG. I would always do a full preflight before every flight not just first in the day I know it is not required but hey. As I said I am new to this and just trying to understand and absorb as much as possible. So far the justification for all the content in my lessons has been plausable, everything is done for a reason and I comprehend that reason and as such I was possibly overthinking all his actions. Do others do this in the RH seat?
17th Apr 2006, 13:38
EG. I would always do a full preflight before every flight not just first in the day I know it is not required but hey.
Re the preflight. If someone else has flown before you or in between your two flights (for example) then do another preflight. No one's perfect, what if they changed or overlooked something. You don't want to have to rely on your trust of what others might have done. You can never be too prepared.
Re: the speaking up bit. When I have flown with friends or they with me, we always invite each other to speak up if they want to ask or point something out. This invitation to speak up is done preflight so that nothing uncomfortable happens in the air. How you say what you need to is important but you should, especially if you really feel you need to.
...maintain your standards and improve on them where possible.
18th Apr 2006, 03:13
Nothing better than going flying with other PPLs!!! You both get the experience that way... and having an extra set of hands to look after navigation or handle the radios or whatever is always appreciated.
I always make sure I talk to whoever I'm flying with - whether PIC or paxing - to make sure that it's ok to speak up and offer advice or suggestions or..... but that whoever is PIC has absolute discretion in the air and I won't be getting into any arguments until we're shut down and out of the aircraft... :D
And I ALWAYS do my own preflight whenever I'm going flying in a light aircraft... at the very least, check fuel and oil.
18th Apr 2006, 12:01
I don't quite understant what you mean with the flaps... flaps are usually needed during a landing.
Flaps are rarely "needed". Flaps are useful on an approach to give you a lower stall speed and a lower nose attitude, allowing for a slower touchdown and better forward visibility. It is normal to use some flap for landing but many people occasionally practise flapless landings in light aircraft, which may be what happened to the OP.
18th Apr 2006, 22:14
Flaps are useful on an approach to give you a lower stall speed and a lower nose attitude, allowing for a slower touchdown and better forward visibility.
Now there's a system you would rarely need.
19th Apr 2006, 01:23
I've flown many aircraft that aren't fitted with flaps, that would suggest they aren't needed, useful? Yes. Necessary? Not normally (for light aircraft only.)