And if JPA Fails??

[Now a 'J' Bloke!!]

Hi Gang;

So when we all get back after lunch on Tuesday, if we are not all still AWOL after not being able to put in a simple leave pass.....

Will we be able to log-on to JPA without wasting too many heartbeats and thumping of monitors??
Will we get paid...and will it be correct???
Will we get our expenses paid??

If JPA is proven to be a failure...(pre or post BOCS...tht's another broom handle!!)...will we switch SAMA back on as we have not disposed of the terminals...or have we???

In our office, we still have a leave book and a leave pass system that works thus;
1. Check book for availability and avoiding others already booked
2. Fill in leave pass
3. Give to Boss...who checks book.(!)
4. Get leave pass returned (approved or not approved)
5. Then & ONLY then...do battle with JPA.

6. And then we still put it on our perspex wall board....how quaint!!!

If JPA is taking each person approx 1 hour to sort (eg a leave pass), then that is 12.5% of their productive day wasted. How long did it take to do a F295A from getting it from the drawer to handing to the Adj/Clerk???

Progress Gentlemen,,, Progress!!!

More LAter;
'J' Bloke!!:cool:

[dallas]

J Bloke,

History has shown we adopt a Cortezian approach to the new world and burn all our boats when we land ashore. JPA will have to work because a very senior bloke will have said so. I would expect it will improve to some degree and then we will just have to live with the fixes we can't afford. You may need to adjust your practices to accommodate the computer's shortfalls, but in statistical and RAF News terms it will be a roaring success and another knighthood tick.

Slightly further down the food chain I'm sure a few career-minded 'yes men' will gulp a few more times yet and glance at the burning hulks of SAMA and the other working vessels sunk before her...

[Safety_Helmut]

Has it not already failed ? One third of the RAF can't log on due to not having passwords etc, the rest find it unusable, two weeks after going live. I'm sure some very senior officers have already been commneded on their work with JPA, and moved on before it hit the streets. The usual way !

S_H

[Khaine27]

ay, we are having fun with it at brize.

beside the fact that it doesnt recognise shift workers and weekends without some messing around, and the fact that it slows to a crawl during the day, the other main problem we have is the admin staff who have been trained on the internals of jpa are all leaving or are still away on courses, thus leaving us workers in the lurch.

Our process at the moment is to just fill in paper leave passes then let the flight spend the rest of the night trying to organise it while we get on with work.

[WhoAreYa]

Our process at the moment is to just fill in paper leave passes then let the flight spend the rest of the night trying to organise it while we get on with work.

Our process is slightly different but works fine. Dont bother with the paper leave pass and just have the time off. If they cant put together a working system why should we worry about it.:)

[Talking Radalt]

Well whilst we're JPA-bashing, I (we) got a collective e-mail from OC PMS saying how naughty some people were for daring to phone the JPA "help" desk when they CLEARLY hadn't completed the JPA self learning package.
Just in case OC Paperclips and Hi-Lighter Pens is reading....
It took 45 minutes just to be allowed to "learn" how to input my name and address when I tried the learning package. Does anyone know how long the whole bloody thing takes? :hmm:

[Roguedent]

approx 45 seconds if you mark the complete box. I found that out after 1hr, and only getting to putting my name in!!!


The poor people at the JPA help desk are not helped either by the fact that it is on a Microsoft platform. :{ Only the Spams and some geek in MIT know how to make that work!!:confused: I rang up to change my address, as I no longer live in the mess, but the lovely computer says I do. There is no remove address button, and it won't let me change it. The unit staff don't have access, and the help desk haven't had the proper training, so it gets logged as a 'job to do'!! Progress. I am off to do a stint in the sand,:yuk: if you want to all it that, wonder if the terminal is faster out there??:ok:

[Khaine27]

approx 45 seconds if you mark the complete box. I found that out after 1hr, and only getting to putting my name in!!!


hahaha, i taught that trick to every person on my shift. Think im gonna be getting the blame for no-one having a clue what to do.

actually did the learning package, takes about an hour if you rush through it, over 2 if you actually read everything properly.

[sooms]

Rougedent

Think yourself lucky.. I'm OOA at the moment. No JPA and no plans to get it at my location. Haven't got a clue whether I'll be paid this month, any of my details are correct- nothing.
Won't be able to check anything till I get back end of next month- after what I've heard of it back in UK, me and most of the people I work with are rather concerned, helps morale enormously!!

[Mr C Hinecap]

Oh you silly people. JPA has already been lauded a success - it has been rolled out to the RAF. It says so in the JPA bumf. I bet that was a milestone in the contract, whether linked to penalty clauses or not. All they are now doing is 'managing a few teething problems' in project speak.
Despite the above, I support the view that this is a crock. Nice idea, shocking execution.

[Impiger]

And is it just a coincidence that my boarding school allowance (sorry continuity of education allowance) has not yet been paid for next term? The Bursar will have a wobbly if this the same for all the service kids at school.

[Spotting Bad Guys]

My BSA hasn't been paid either, although a colleague at the same unit has received his.

As I don't have a password yet, I can't log on to the system - when I phoned the JPAC they said they couldn't help me as my account would not be 'live' enough for them to interrogate until I logged on!!!!!!
I want to know who the hell is responsible for this piece of s**t and who is going to be held accountable for the immense and almighty c*ck-up, in particular the bright spark that decided to shut down SAMA prior to bringing JPA on-line.

Did it not occur to them to conduct an end-to-end systems trial? And don't start me on capped actuals....

Pitiful, and an absolute disgrace.

SBG:mad:

[SirToppamHat]

We all received an email from the Chief Clerk saying our BSA/CEA had been paid-in on Tuesday 11 Apr 06. I checked and am pleased to say it has been received. My understanding is that the CEA was to be done as a separate run, that should have included all entitled.

Check your bank accounts, then go see the Chief Clerk on Tuesday morning bright and early - assuming you aren't taking the kids back to school like I will be.

STH

[Rev I. Tin]

My bank has been credited with my BSA/CEA (although still waiting for a realistic amount!!) however I am yet to receive the pay slip or in fact last month's salary pay slip.

I do hope you have an understanding bursar!
Disgraceful! Questions should be asked in the house.

[Impiger]

On BSA/CEA I spoke to my clerks last week and they were assured that it would be paid on 13 Apr (normal date 6 Apr) well as I bank on-line I checked and guess what? No dosh! No 1 son then admits to taking a phone message from some dude called CEA who said it would be in the bank next Wednesday 19 Apr and they'd pay any bank charges or interest incurred from late payment of fees.

Bit of an act of faith required as I write out another large cheque and send it to school on Wednesday night!!!

We have another twist on the whole JPA thing. My unit is Joint and European based. Our bearer system for JPA and other stuff is the Army equivalent of RAFCCIS or whatever. But to get on you need an Army issued account and password and then you use your JPA account/password. Guess what the G6 response to a whole bunch of Crabs seeking access to the Army network was??

Ho hum - the pay's the same (if only I could be sure it would turn up!)

[ratty1]

Hi Gang;

So when we all get back after lunch on Tuesday,
'J' Bloke!!:cool:

I thought you were off on Tuesday?

[Now a 'J' Bloke!!]

Metaphorically, dear Ratty!!!:8

[tablet_eraser]

Congratulations to anyone who's even been able to embark on the learning package. Given the fact that the JPA behemoth has been hoving into view for over a year, I find it incredible that "Small Systems" (what was IT Flt) STILL haven't loaded Flash software on to my computer at work, rendering me unable to use the learning package.

Well, I suppose it's only our personal leave, next of kin information and salaries. Why should that be a priority?

:mad:

[Pontius Navigator]

tablet_eraser, thanks for that. We have a dedicated JPA terminal (installed and running in Dec 05) and a second that could accept JPA (installed Jun 05). We got passwords week before last. No JPA passwords though.

Now I see we don't need JPA passwords as we don't have the Flash Software and pound to a pinch of sh!t the local IT guys don't have the admin passwords as they did not provide the machines.:}

[FJJP]

Boy, I'm glad I'm out! Nobody in power at the top will admit that this country does not have the capability or the capacity to create a fully functional nationwide computer system - there just isn't a company big enough, so the job is split up into sub-contracting [=farcical organisation].

The NHS is doing the same - the national computer system being built at the moment is a farce of monumental design and financial proportions, but those at the top are hailing it as an on-time success story. Then there was the big refinary fire [which burned out the adjacent company responsible for part of the system] and many of the computer functions disappeared. No problem, you say, the remote backup site should kick in. What remote backup site? There was none, and as far as I am aware, there still isnt. It took several months for functionality to return.

At a base I served at for my final tour, they introduced a station LAN. I asked just that question, about the backup mirror site. I was told there wasn't one, that 'servers don't crash in this day and age - they are completely reliable'. Furthermore, they set up each workstation to store everything on the server - you had no choice. Unless you knew how to reset the 'save to' automatics, which you couldn't do without admin rights. The techies were so snowed under that they gave me those rights so that I could look after the half dozen workstations for which I was responsible. I therefore kept everything on my C drive, with a daily auto-backup to the server. Guess what? The inevitable happened and when the crash occurred, the station ground to a halt, with no-one able to access their work documents. For 2 days. Good, eh?

Where is the JPA server remote backup site? That is a question you should be seriously asking your bosses. Because if the central servers crash, you will be up the creek without the proverbial paddle.

Think it through...

[Talking Radalt]

And annuvver fing......
Next week I'm dropping by the bank to set up a buffering account solely for JPA use, funds from which will then be forwarded by my Bank to my usual current account, instead of leaving "useful" details (useful to a hacker/identity thief/organised crime that is) with a call centre in Giggleswick who use a ZX81 they got on e-Bay from user name "Del'n'Rodders".
So my actual day to day working current account details won't be on JPA for much longer.
OK, so what's the point? Well, seeing as they are a commercial organistion instead of just trying to act like one, I trust my bank's web security far more than I do that of the MOD.
Also, it means when, not if, JPA displays Microsoft's Blue Screen of Death I can conveniently sever all my own financial goings-on from the whole crappy saga of JPA, in a very real and legally binding way.
Just thought I'd share that one.

JPA: Just Press "Abort"

[FFP]

Which is all well and good. . . . . . . .

But to change your bank details now, with the troubles with JPA ? The logic is sound but you are more likely to end up without pay than the thousand other "drifters" that haven't been as thoughtful as you !!

Changing bank details on JPA at the present time ? Braver man than me. I'll stick with what details they have and jump on any legal bandwagon when we don't get paid than give them have an excuse that "you must not have saved your details then Sir "

[maniac55]

It took me 3 days to get any kind of usable connection (after 17:30 that is; daytime, don't bother) and when I did get in, can I correct all the data, of course not. What a heap of sh*te!

They can't even get the basics right of when I was married or even that my wife is indeed female (obviously, people may swing in any direction that they like nowadays but I'm a tad of a traditionalist) and on top of that, the system won't let me put in the correct info!

Can't wait for pay day :uhoh:

[TheKey]

I have heard that the pay system on JPA has been tested 9 times and failed everytime, anyone comfirm?

Why not just use the old BACs system untill JPA passes its test.:confused:

I am in the process of applying for a mortgage and when i informed PSF staff of my concerns I was told "We don't care" :ok: gee thanks

Surley some form of legal action can be taken against someone if we are not paid?

[ChezTanker]

I have heard that the pay system on JPA has been tested 9 times and failed everytime, anyone comfirm?

Why not just use the old BACs system untill JPA passes its test.:confused:

I am in the process of applying for a mortgage and when i informed PSF staff of my concerns I was told "We don't care" :ok: gee thanks

Surley some form of legal action can be taken against someone if we are not paid?

No legal action but you can claim for any costs associated with late payment such as interest charges, overdraft fees etc.

[Kev Nurse]

Talking Radalt, or any of us, doesn't need to change bank details on JPA. The RAF will continue(?) crediting our existing accounts, but we simply ask the bank to open up another similar current account into which we transfer the monthly pay. Our existing JPA declared account will be the buffer. All automatic transactions can be set up in the new account.

Having said all that, I'm not convinced that we are vulnerable to hacking to the extent that our accounts might suffer unauthorised debits. JPA will never know my banking passwords.

[SidHolding]

Hi Kev,

fair point. However, my "anaualised" salary is incorrect. It's £10k less than it should be. Quite possibly caused by a typo, but can anyone fix it? Seems not!! I've spoken to HR and JPAC and they both refer me to the other. It's lodged as a "fault" now, but I fear it may be some time before it's fixed and in the mean time I'll have to claim "advances" to increase my pay to what it should be. All that siad though, I'll wait until the 20th to see my pay statement before I take any more steps.

Sid.

[Jobza Guddun]

All that siad though, I'll wait until the 20th to see my pay statement before I take any more steps.
Sid.[/QUOTE]

Assuming you'll GET a pay statement Sid.....

Does anybody actually know the person who signed off on JPA? If so I hope you're giving them the contempt they deserve, for what I believe to be the biggest admin debacle I've ever come across. (And I've been royally shafted in my time, too...er, figuratively speaking...)

Jobza

[dantura]

Heard from a friend of a friend that the chief clerk up at a secret base north of the border has got in a few thousand blank cheques for the end of the month.:ooh:
Also got an E-mail today that only AFPAA staff would be able to access JPA for the next few days.....:hmm:
All adding up to a monumental one me thinks....hope I'm wrong.




D

[Climebear]

...I'll wait until the 20th to see my pay statement before I take any more steps.

I wouldn't count on this Sid. I asked the question at one of the Pre-JPA briefings and was told that the system was so good :mad: :mad: that AFPAA would be running the pay run later in the month (possibly 3-4 working days before pay day) to enable inputs made later in the month to be paid that month. So even if it was all working fine we wouldn't have received pay statements until much later (I would hope that it is better than the current Army system where they tend to receive pay statements after pay day!).

[On_The_Top_Bunk]

So if it blatently fails to provide a reasonable service what's the outcome?

Will SAMA be reinstated and someone hung by the scrotes? I doubt it.

I can't see upgrading the servers being the answer. It's a combination of very poor procurement, terrible advice and insufficient funds.
I bet the dark blue and olive factions won't join this farce until it is totally proven by the RAF muggins testing team.

[Almost_done]

Surley some form of legal action can be taken against someone if we are not paid?


Something called breach of contract, okay we have Terms of Service but a lawyer has told me if we don't get paid = no need to work (they break the contract), QR's not withstanding, going to see if they cover it tomorrow. However I am sure some learned people out here can guide me on this view point.

Still would be interesting, anyone know if the OC Accounts has been to the local banks recently so are we getting ready for a good old fashioned pay parade. 'Thank you Sir/Ma'am for my lovely lolly, a pleasure as ever to humble myself for it' (in a cockney accent).

rant off

[FJJP]

Maybe whoever organised this farce should talk to Danny and find out how to run a server EFFICIENTLY!

[TheKey]

If anyone does find out anything on the legal side of this matter it would be appreciated.

Also if anyone knows where i can join the new Air Force could you let me know because this one has gone a little bit doo lally for my liking:8

[glider insider]

I note that Self Service users now have restricted access, as the server is having trouble coping, so they have shut us all out until the payroll is complete...

cant wait until the Army and RN join in, then lets see how they manage the payroll...

[Hot Charlie]

No legal action but you can claim for any costs associated with late payment such as interest charges, overdraft fees etc.

Presumably you'd need to be able to log into JPA first?:rolleyes:

[Lost & Filed]

:mad: JPA. I got in this morning and went to check whether my leave had been actioned only to find out that we were all shut out so that they can get the Pay Roll done.

Someone would have thought that they would have tried and tested all this before going live and then finding all the faults that need to be sorted. But OH NO, that's too bloody easy for the hierarchy, let's just throw everyone in at the deep end and see who swims and who sinks, as per bloody usual.

The thing that they don't tell us as well is that once the Navy and the Army go live there will be at 9 day period each time where no-one can access JPA and do anything. Not that we can do anything at the moment.

Oh and don't even get me started on Pay. I phoned up JPAC to find out why I was getting charged abated food for a couple of weeks last year - I'm down as Mat Cat 3 and was living in for a year, after speaking to a SNCO at lovely ole PMA, they have me as Mat Cat 2 living in (which should pay abated food), so does that mean then that I'm going to be getting all that food paid back and then taken off again at a later date.

It happened again in last months pay slip, so I went and spoke to a m8 in PSF who said to phone JPAC, so I did and got told by them to speak to Unit HR as they don't have any specialists there that can help. So went back to speak to my m8 in PSF and got told wait until the pay run happens at the end of the month and hopefully it should be sorted as they will just tell us what they told you. This is from an adminer to an adminer.

What's this bloody air force coming to. It's turning out to be more like a Private Flying Club than a fighting force to be proud of.

I'll tell you something for nothing, that Tranche 3 is looking more and more favourable as time goes by.

[South Bound]

Think the 'Private Flying Club' comment is a little offside in this thread. Agree completely with all the frustration going on, but it is everyone in the RAF that is suffering from JPA, no one trade more than any other. I feel for you shiney types though, I wonder what your job is actually going to be when the dust settles.

At least we have been running SAMA in parallel for a few weeks as a contingency in case it all gets scary...doh!

[Rather be Gardening]

And here's the latest from AMP:

1. You will be aware that the launch of JPA has not gone smoothly and that system performance/access is very limited. My purpose in writing is to explain the latest position and detail the actions that are being taken to deliver a working system.

2. A number of issues will have been apparent to, and largely contained by, your Admin staff over the last 4 weeks. The System’s performance deteriorated significantly immediately prior to the Easter weekend. Since then, AFPAA, EDS and Oracle staff have been working hard to diagnose and resolve the problem. However, whilst memory and software patches have been applied, the root cause of the problem has yet to be identified.

3. This issue has had a knock-on effect to the JPAC Enquiry Centre (EC). The JPAC EC relies on JPA to provide its Customer Relations Management system. At times when the system has been particularly slow, the EC has been deluged with calls. They too have been locked out of the JPA system in a similar fashion to other users. A system notice board has now been added prior to the JPA logon screen to apprise users of current performance.

4. I realise that the system performance and accessibility aspect of JPA is unacceptable and I have made this point to DCDS(Pers), who owns AFPAA. Moreover, I recognise the impact that this has on specialist staff who rely upon the system, as well as self-service users. Therefore, I have implemented a contingency plan, the full details of which will be sent out this afternoon. In short, system use will be phased to allow professional access (eg PMA & unit HR specialists) for the period 0700-1200hrs and self-service user access 1200-1700hrs. System maintenance, payroll and other core functions will take place outside of these times. I must stress that this is a short-term arrangement for business continuity purposes. It will remain under constant review and be lifted at the earliest opportunity.

Well, what can you expect when EDS is involved??:*

[talktothehand]

Do you think if less aircrew were involved in the managment and decision making for JPA it might have worked? - Discuss!!!:\

[South Bound]

Don't think it is worth discussing - who knows what branch the decision makers for JPA are? Pointless argument.

Just amazing that we have taken a working product (not defending EDS, but the core of JPA works well for other organisations) and faffed with it until it doesn't. Any money there is something that we were meant to do (like buy new hardware or something) that we haven't done to try and make it work on the cheap...

[SubdiFuge]

TTTH

For a start DCDS (Pers) and AMP are not aircrew and as JPA is not an RAF only system I doubt if many if any aircrew were involved.

[Blunt17]

Whether the hierarchy is aircrew or not is irrelevant, fact is they were all convincingly briefed that it was going to work. We can all scoff and say, well they should have known it wouldn't (and secretly they may have thought so, too), but cynicism wasn't a good enough reason to cause SofS or MinAF to stand up in the House to announce the delayed role out of JPA. The 'go' decision was as politically motivated as anything else - can you think of a government minister who would choose to stand up in the House and announce yet another government IT project delay? Based on a hunch that it 'probably' wouldn't work? Having been briefed by JPA that it would work?

Thing is, the bits I have used do actually work...when you can get access it. Speed/availability is the issue and thats what is preventing everything happening.

Pay run should have started at 1700 last night, but ran today instead (maybe) which caused everyone to be logged out. We 'expect' access again tomorrow (if pay runs...). Self-service not working is pants. But imagine having to spend you whole day staring at the JPA egg timer. Pity me...please...:sad:

[Safety_Helmut]

And if JPA Fails??
There's no if about it, it has failed already.

Reliability ? Availability ? Accessability ? and crucially, credibility = 0

Thankfully, the months to do are getting fewer !

S_H

[foormort]

Here in jolly USA, us exchange folks were looking on with real wonderment...wondering what on earth all the fuss was about with this JPA stuff. The old embassy in Washington will be looking after all of that sort of stuff. Any q's or problems with our claims we can ring them up and ask away, just like the old days. Well, JPA has managed to cross the Atlantic and now we are deluged with letters dated the something of April ref JPA wef 1 Apr and oh no, its all so confusing...........Innsworth says this, Washingto says this.........Oh my goodness me pse get the story straight. For me if they are going to change the way we are administered then a period of examples and exposure should preceed any major changes. It really is a bit of a mess. i hope all those senior types who were so keen on coming forward to sell the benefits are brave enough to step up and sort the problems out. And, if neccessary say that the change was in fact not for the better, but for the cheaper.....

[stuckinLatinAmerica]

Here in jolly USA, us exchange folks were looking on with real wonderment...wondering what on earth all the fuss was about with this JPA stuff. The old embassy in Washington will be looking after all of that sort of stuff. Any q's or problems with our claims we can ring them up and ask away, just like the old days......

You'll be lucky, foormort! Us embassy folks here in the Americas are just as confused and frustrated as everyone back home. So far, the one saving grace for us overseas 'players' is that we don't have JPA terminals or passwords to try and get on to this new-fangled system. Based on the comments from others in the UK who have tried, long may that remain the case. :bored:

[SpotterFC]

Nice letter Rather Be Gardening, shame most of the rest of the Air Force haven't seen it - was it Blunties in Confidence?

The System’s performance deteriorated significantly immediately prior to the Easter weekend.

Wouldn't that be about the time that 40,000 sets of personnel records got put on the system and people set about fixing the Horlicks the data entry people had made of it?

However, whilst memory and software patches have been applied, the root cause of the problem has yet to be identified.

(Bold Underline mine) All becomes clear. As I suspected we bought hardware that wasn't up to the job. I can see the IPT now:"So EDS/HP/ORACLE: What do you reckon is the minimum spec you need to deliver this capability?" "Blah Blah Blah ZX Spectrum Blah Blah Commodore 64 Blah" "Excellent, that's what you can have then."

What happened to "any system bought must have a minimum 50% excess capacity in memory and proceessing power to cope with upgrades and additional capabilities"? Or is that only for Ops systems:yuk:

[Roadster280]

My GOD!!

As an ex-miltary type that now works in telecoms, I am shocked. The systems that are required are not unlike a telephone network billing system. The individual account is debited by the work done by the system. The individual is able to change his rate plan, make payments, etc online himself. Fundamentally, it seems JPA works the other way, so if an airman claims a missed meal, he gets paid for it. Fundamentally the same idea though.

What really gets me is the miniscule scale of the system. 40,000 subscribers in a phone network would be laughed out of the door. Typically it would be >5 million. To say it's about insufficient memory and/or processing power is probably gonads. Inefficient database design more likely. Or networking problems between the core server sites and satellites. At least I hope the plural is required.

You could say that Oracle is capable of running British Gas's billing system. I.e. 20 million accounts. 40,000 is just jokeworthy if they cant' make that work.

Worse still, it's your pay and allowances. Questions in the house. Today.

[foormort]

OK this is progress, to make an expense claim I print out the JPA Fxyz, I then complete it by hand, I then fax it to RAF Innsworth, the details are then entered by another hand into a spread sheet, at the end of every working day the spreadsheet is sent to Glasgow, JPAC then reenter all the details into another form, then the claim is submitted for payment. Now that is smart. What if there is a problem with the claim, I can only imagine how long the question will take to reach the individual, or do they simply return the claim via the reverse process above!!??. With the vast numbers of personnel overseas I kinda thought it might be a little more efficient than this.....:sad:

[HughR]

FOORMORT asks "What if there is a problem with the claim..."

This is a quote from the JPA thread on the RAF unofficial web site E-Goat:

"Since day 1 of JPA I have been trying to get an advance of allowances to go over seas on a jolly.

Old system: send fax mod form 300 to allowances signed by the boss 4 days later i have the dosh in the bank everyone happy.

JPA: sent fax to JPAC.... WAIT...... JPAC cant't enter data....send form to allowances hoping for a miscellaneous payment....WAIT.....allowances staff are all sacked and can't do miscellaneous payment as they won't be there to send me a bill to pay after i come back from the jolly....log in to JPA...again again and again over 3 days....apply for advance....WAIT......WAIT .....looks like nothing in happening....contact PSF..... yes we have it to review it but cant log on....WAIT... PSF contact me you are asking for too much dosh, hold on this is overseas I reply, your application does not say that, it never asked I told them.....PSF return application via JPA email....try to log on again,again and again...send back email to say i am going over seas......WAIT....PSF call great news we have sent it to JPAC.....WAIT....phone call from allowances (Very angry woman)...YOU ARE ASKING FOR TO MUCH DOSH....reply I am going overseas.... it does not say that here.... 10 minutes later explaining it all over again....fine I'll send to to JPAC....WAIT....1 week later no dosh....... and boss if its not in my bank tommorow i am not going.........simple.........i Cant afford to pay out money to support the RAF....and it's Jurassic Park Allowances."